Why the Bitcoin UASF has already won in case of a hard fork

[BillyBobZorton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Rwd1YGR7w

Segwit chain: Scales, gets lightning instantly, mainstream adoption ready, no more centralization due covert ASICBOOST scam, no risk of reorg

Legacy chain. Doesn't scale, no lightning network, NYC agreement already failed, ASICBOOST will continue even with NYC agreement due segwit not going in as a softfork, the agreement was never going to happen anyway, also it would require that you trust and install non-Core approved software which is a recipe for disaster, risk of reorg aka losing everything when snowball effect begins.

UASF is coming, either segwit gets activated before august 1 or nukes will be deployed.

[1714104305]

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[1714104305]

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[thejaytiesto]

I used to be on the fence about UASF, but not anymore since it's happening anyway, and since it's happening anyway, it might as well work. I wouldn't like to see a tie, but that's pretty hard in this situation, the balance will eventually go one way or another, and im getting sick of the bullshit. I would still like to see this getting explored:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-May/014445.html

But I suspect Jihan will keep delaying anything that makes the fees go low, so if you ever want to see bitcoin scale, UASF must be it.

[franky1]

first: you cant resegit a segwit. so segwit doesnt "scale"

if core are now wanting to hard fork, atleast do it without the cludgy code.

billy and pereira4 repeat the same crap without understanding it. use the same graphics use the same rhetoric. im guessing its the same person double spamming posts for sig campaign income

the only reason they feel asicboost is bad is because it stops going soft.. going 2 merkle cludge was to avoid going hard. so if going hard you dont need two merkle cludge.. so if core now wanna go hard it makes it a non issue

meaning just make it a mandatory 1 merkle block of 4mb where native and segwit keys can all work in the same area where everyone benefits
include all the other features the community want but only able to happen in a hard consensus.. and just pull the trigger

pretending they can do a hard consensus in 3 months by naming it something else(UASF MASF) but then pretend another hard consensus taked 18 months is stupid misdirecting bullcrap of the core team.


just make a non cludgy upgrade, release it and make it mandatory. yep a 1 merkle block, proper scaling available version that includes all the keypair types everyone wants, native, segwit, schnorr.

stop with all of these half gesture cludgy crap
"51%-80% attack" just to force a cludgy temporary 2 merkle crap is not the best plan. and makes no logical sense

if the trigger is to be pulled. atleast do a f*cking proper job

[Itty Bitty]

There's going to be a lot of bitcoins flowing into Electrum, Mycelium, Trezor, Green wallets the next few weeks (these wallets have committed early to enforce BIP 148)....would be crazy risk (of potential legacy chain re-org) to leave them anywhere that isn't wholeheartedly committing to BIP 148 early on.

[25hashcoin]

UASF is already a failure. NY deal has all the backing. It's going to be either SW+2mb or just 4mb or 8mb blocks and nonsegwit on the real bitcoin.

[Itty Bitty]

Bro, you can't just be 90% right, you have to be 100% right, because if you're wrong and transact on legacy chain after Aug. 1, and legacy chain re-orgs into segwit chain ANYTIME after, your transaction history on legacy chain gets erased, and your coins are gone.

Still feeling that Segwit + 2MB hubris?

[BreathOfZen]

How would UASF or a hard fork affect normal merchants who don't know all the technical details but just want to keep accepting bitcoin as payment?

[Itty Bitty]

How would UASF or a hard fork affect normal merchants who don't know all the technical details but just want to keep accepting bitcoin as payment?

Pretty sure bitcoin doesn't differentiate between merchants who are aware of the new rules, and merchants who aren't. There's no customer service to complain to if you choose wrong, whatever the reason was. But I am also sure as the time gets closer to Aug. 1, you would have to be living under a rock to be unaware of what will be going on with UASF.

[thejaytiesto]

Bro, you can't just be 90% right, you have to be 100% right, because if you're wrong and transact on legacy chain after Aug. 1, and legacy chain re-orgs into segwit chain ANYTIME after, your transaction history on legacy chain gets erased, and your coins are gone.

Still feeling that Segwit + 2MB hubris?

NY agreement is a meme. This is what the bitcoin hyperwhales (richer than Ver, Bitmain etc) think about the agreement:

http://qntra.net/2017/05/still-no-consensus-supporting-bitcoin-hardfork-barry-silbert-pretends-otherwise-to-his-peril/

Barry Silbert's (WOT:nonperson) "Digital Currency Group" announced in a medium post that yet another delusion of consensus arrived in the Bitcoin scaling debate with "A conference sponsored by the Ethereum,1 Dash,2 and Ripple3 scams produces an agreement on how to scale Bitcoin". The post outlined the reasons the conference attendees believe they get to make decisions in Bitcoin, with claims of support for the proposals by:

    56 "companies" located in 21 countries4
    83.28% of hashing power5
    5.1 billion US dollars of monthly on chain transaction volume6
    20.5 million Bitcoin wallets 7

A selection of scam artists doing business as "companies" while lacking the charm necessary to fleece the elderly allege they will "provide technical and engineering support to test and support the upgrade software, as well as to assist companies with preparing for the upgrades". Noted names incapable of providing meaningful testing or support such as: the MLM BitClub Network, Ryan X. Charles' paywalled spam reader, and Gavin Assassinsen were offered as options for the forkcurious to seek support from.

Not to mention they can't even agree on what the agreement is

[mindrust]

Jihan Wu doesn't want BU, he doesn't want Segwit, he doesn't want HF, he doesn't want bigblocks.

He is full of shit and a liar.

What he wants is to keep the current state of bitcoin.

He was supposed to be against the high fees. Anybody believes his lies look at this shit: https://twitter.com/JihanWu/status/868896110760181760

All he cares about his cheated software ASICBOOST, his monopoly business and collecting overpriced fees from the users.

He is against bitcoin's development and he needs to be eliminated.

#UASF

[bartolo]

How would UASF or a hard fork affect normal merchants who don't know all the technical details but just want to keep accepting bitcoin as payment?

Most of the merchants don´t have to worry themselves because they accept payments in bitcoin but don´t receive the coins, they have partners like Gocoin who are responsible for converting the bitcoins that users pay in fiat money. That is, the user pays with bitcoin, Gocoin or another partner makes the exchange and the merchant receives fiat money. Therefore those who would have to worry are these intermediate companies. In the case of merchants who receive bitcoins directly they have two options, or take risks or not accept payments until the situation is cleared.

[RajaJudi]

Jihan Wu doesn't want BU, he doesn't want Segwit, he doesn't want HF, he doesn't want bigblocks.

He is full of shit and a liar.

What he wants is to keep the current state of bitcoin.

He was supposed to be against the high fees. Anybody believes his lies look at this shit: https://twitter.com/JihanWu/status/868896110760181760

All he cares about his cheated software ASICBOOST, his monopoly business and collecting overpriced fees from the users.

He is against bitcoin's development and he needs to be eliminated.

#UASF

Well, the Chinese are full of stupid who only care about the profit and money. They do not care about the future or what the people want

[Kprawn]

first: you cant resegit a segwit. so segwit doesnt "scale"

if core are now wanting to hard fork, atleast do it without the cludgy code.

billy and pereira4 repeat the same crap without understanding it. use the same graphics use the same rhetoric. im guessing its the same person double spamming posts for sig campaign income

the only reason they feel asicboost is bad is because it stops going soft.. going 2 merkle cludge was to avoid going hard. so if going hard you dont need two merkle cludge.. so if core now wanna go hard it makes it a non issue

meaning just make it a mandatory 1 merkle block of 4mb where native and segwit keys can all work in the same area where everyone benefits
include all the other features the community want but only able to happen in a hard consensus.. and just pull the trigger

pretending they can do a hard consensus in 3 months by naming it something else(UASF MASF) but then pretend another hard consensus taked 18 months is stupid misdirecting bullcrap of the core team.


just make a non cludgy upgrade, release it and make it mandatory. yep a 1 merkle block, proper scaling available version that includes all the keypair types everyone wants, native, segwit, schnorr.

stop with all of these half gesture cludgy crap
"51%-80% attack" just to force a cludgy temporary 2 merkle crap is not the best plan. and makes no logical sense

if the trigger is to be pulled. atleast do a f*cking proper job

Butthurt much Franky?   .... The strategy to push for SegWit/ UASF / MASF might not be the best solution... but it is better than the "kick the

can down the road" strategy that was suggested by the BU team. We need to scale and this chest bumping delays are stopping progress. We

could have been at the Moon already. { or this is what they wanted... to delay progress and to divide the Bitcoin community }  

[Variogam]

If UASF chain wont get longest POW, then I dont see how could the whole Bitcoin economy claim the smaller POW chain to be Bitcoin.

The 2017 NY scalling agreement has much more support, but hard to say whether SegWit going to be activated before 1st Aug with it, given the code is not ready yet.

[25hashcoin]

OP you sound like you have no clue what you're talking about and are just spewing BlockstreamCore propaganda.

[andron8383]

***
But I suspect Jihan will keep delaying anything that makes the fees go low, so if you ever want to see bitcoin scale, UASF must be it.

I se that too we need 2nd layer solutions working and moveing off chain to keep decentralized factor of network.
With so many users nodes nubers are not rissing with high BTC usage so having higher blocks will fuck up future of BTC.
We need 2nd layer to make BTC more decenrtalizd and neautralized asicboost.

[European Central Bank]

one way or another this will stop the endless arguing. the pressure will build over the next couple months. let's see who buckles.

[franky1]

Butthurt much Franky?   .... The strategy to push for SegWit/ UASF / MASF might not be the best solution... but it is better than the "kick the

can down the road" strategy that was suggested by the BU team. We need to scale and this chest bumping delays are stopping progress. We

could have been at the Moon already. { or this is what they wanted... to delay progress and to divide the Bitcoin community }  

seriously?
core gave only pools the vote not a node+pool proper consensus = nodes blame pools = dividing the network (should blame devs that gave only pools vote)

core removed the fee structure and trned it into a fee war = users blaming each other = dividing the network (should blame devs that removed fee code)

core used cludgy code and manipulating maths of empty promises and half gestures = dividing the network (should blame devs that avoided 1merkle version)

core are avoiding hard(node+pool) consensus. and going for nasty soft bilateral split = dividing the network (should blame devs that avoided hard consensus)

i think core took the 'go to the moon' request too literally.. throw the network into an uninhabitable area where nothing can breath and grow aka the moon

[ebliever]

If UASF chain wont get longest POW, then I dont see how could the whole Bitcoin economy claim the smaller POW chain to be Bitcoin.

The 2017 NY scalling agreement has much more support, but hard to say whether SegWit going to be activated before 1st Aug with it, given the code is not ready yet.

The non-UASF chain gets reorganized out of existence once the UASF chain takes the lead in POW. In the interim the bitcoin economy will presumably favor the segwit-enabled bitcoin as the "real" bitcoin and uphold its price while Jihan Wu's legacy bitcoin gets dumped into oblivion. At some point miners will decide not to declare bankruptcy mining worthless coins and, instead, mine the profitable chain with coins that can actually be sold. Once that starts (and I don't think it will take all that long when it comes to it), things will snowball quickly.

Some folks have pointed out that the miners could save the old chain by checkpointing. True, but that doesn't change the economic reality: Who is going to favor the unscaled old chain when we  - finally - have new improved bitcoin with Segwit and the Lightning Network come August 1?

[European Central Bank]

True, but that doesn't change the economic reality: Who is going to favor the unscaled old chain when we  - finally - have new improved bitcoin with Segwit and the Lightning Network come August 1?

there'll be some seriously rich people, or a certain person, willing to prop it up for as long as possible. it would be fun to see how long he lasts.

the next couple of months are gonna be so fud and psyops heavy i think i might turn off my internet. it hasn't even started yet.

[ebliever]

True, but that doesn't change the economic reality: Who is going to favor the unscaled old chain when we  - finally - have new improved bitcoin with Segwit and the Lightning Network come August 1?

there'll be some seriously rich people, or a certain person, willing to prop it up for as long as possible. it would be fun to see how long he lasts.

the next couple of months are gonna be so fud and psyops heavy i think i might turn off my internet. it hasn't even started yet.

I agree about the last bit. About the first... I think the battle will be more lopsided that most expect. If Ver actually manages to enlist other known whales to oppose BIP148 I'll rethink that, but at this point I expect most whales, even if they don't go public about it, will wind up acting in support of BIP148 due to the reorg risk, and the end to the scaling debate that BIP148 success represents. That last point may be key - all the people who say they are sick and tired of this will see light at the end of the tunnel with BIP148, versus no end in sight if it fails.

[franky1]

lol

so many people think its just a ver+jihan Vs the world..... (mega facepalm)

33% of pools hashpower accept segwit... not 67%.... 33%
even core fanboys only have a Satoshi:0.14.1(31.74%) uptake of staying uptodate.
even the ones that explicitly want segwit all cannot agree on UASF as the method.

those wanting segwit are not keeping upto date. thus dont expect uptopia.. expect drama of orphans and double spends

so come august 1st dont expect everyone to be changing over to the tier network

UASF is the worse way to try to force something in that not everyone wants..
if you think only 2 people dont want it. your deluded

[25hashcoin]

I agree about the last bit. About the first... I think the battle will be more lopsided that most expect. If Ver actually manages to enlist other known whales to oppose BIP148 I'll rethink that, but at this point I expect most whales, even if they don't go public about it, will wind up acting in support of BIP148 due to the reorg risk, and the end to the scaling debate that BIP148 success represents. That last point may be key - all the people who say they are sick and tired of this will see light at the end of the tunnel with BIP148, versus no end in sight if it fails.

There's no relevant miners that post here. You're wasting your time parading around useless bluffs like this, and even if they were, they see right through that childish game.

[jonald_fyookball]

If theres a network split everyone wins.  You blockstream fan boys can have fun on your segwit chain, ill be moving onto big blocks.

[iluvpie60]

Let a fork happen if need be. Nobody should force others to use btc how they see fit, that kind of is the point of btc right? The whole.point is to allow users and miners to choose how to do things...

If big banks and corps are taking over, buy some mining gear or hasing power and put it into a pool you believe in. Everhone just sits around trying to convince jihan wu to do something. You dont need to!   You dont need him or his pool.

[Variogam]

The non-UASF chain gets reorganized out of existence once the UASF chain takes the lead in POW.

True. When UASF chain takes the lead in POW, the whole Bitcoin economy going to use it as Bitcoin after the reorg. But what you fail to realize, prior this, no sane business going to name some smaller chain POW as Bitcoin - they would risk legal problems. Also the Bitcoin economy is behind 2017 NY scalling agreement which brings both SegWit and very small blocksize increase. For the UASF chain to even get chance to attract miners and become Bitcoin, it needs to be tradeable at some altcoin exchange - but so far no name decided and no exchange ready to trade the UASF chain altcoin.

[European Central Bank]

True. When UASF chain takes the lead in POW, the whole Bitcoin economy going to use it as Bitcoin after the reorg. But what you fail to realize, prior this, no sane business going to name some smaller chain POW as Bitcoin - they would risk legal problems. Also the Bitcoin economy is behind 2017 NY scalling agreement which brings both SegWit and very small blocksize increase. For the UASF chain to even get chance to attract miners and become Bitcoin, it needs to be tradeable at some altcoin exchange - but so far no name decided and no exchange ready to trade the UASF chain altcoin.

bitfinex are discussing it. all exchanges care about is making money and there'll be a whole lot of money to be made.

[mindrust]

If theres a network split everyone wins.  You blockstream fan boys can have fun on your segwit chain, ill be moving onto big blocks.

If you love big blocks so much, why are you keep posting in this forum and not at the Big Blocks Forum may i ask? I thought  BU fanboys had their own forums at https://forum.bitcoin.com/

Please take your bullshit and go. Your kind damaged bitcoin to the ground ETH is about to overtake because of your boss Jihan Wu and we all gonna lose in the end. Please gtfo.

[jonald_fyookball]

If theres a network split everyone wins.  You blockstream fan boys can have fun on your segwit chain, ill be moving onto big blocks.

If you love big blocks so much, why are you keep posting in this forum and not at the Big Blocks Forum may i ask? I thought  BU fanboys had their own forums at https://forum.bitcoin.com/

Please take your bullshit and go. Your kind damaged bitcoin to the ground ETH is about to overtake because of your boss Jihan Wu and we all gonna lose in the end. Please gtfo.

Bitcoin was always supposed to have big blocks.  Read the whitepaper amigo

[XbladeX]

***
Bitcoin was always supposed to have big blocks.  Read the whitepaper amigo

then blame satoshi for not implementing dynamic blocksize in coin design or blocksize progress with halvings.

[BitHodler]

ETH is about to overtake because of your boss Jihan Wu and we all gonna lose in the end. Please gtfo.

No. Ethereum gaining in price will not harm Bitcoin at all. Ethereum remains at these higher prices because there are lots of delusional people that continue buying insanely overpriced tokens.

Market cap and the price of Ethereum don't mean anything ~ actual usage does. As long as the Ethereum usage remains speculative, there is not much that will change.