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Author Topic: What is holding you from investing tons of money in this?  (Read 6479 times)
d.james
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June 22, 2011, 09:25:19 AM
 #21

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What is holding you from....


I'm not the one holding, MTGOX is holding all my money and coins!!

You can not roll a BitCoin, but you can rollback some. Cheesy
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FreeMoney
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June 22, 2011, 09:54:28 AM
 #22

What is your main reason you do not invest in BTC with huge amounts of money?

Other than BTC(as well as all related exchanges and accounts) not being insured, backed(neither by an economy nor central bank or any other instance whatsoever) or regulated by anything and thus being worth as much as a seashell, it's a perfectly fine system!

By the way, that's "price is capable of going to 0.01 within minutes", thanks to literally no real depth or liquidity existing in the market, not days.

We've just done that exercise, it's no longer a thought experiment.

How this has not shown people what's what is truly, truly amazing.

If you think the value was .01 the other day then it's up over 100000% in a few days. 

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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June 22, 2011, 09:59:59 AM
 #23

I don't think it makes sense to invest in mining or holding right now. For mining, the profitability just doesn't seem to be there. Holding to take advantage of an expected deflation, as I've argued elsewhere, won't work.

I am an employee of Ripple.
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Fakeman
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June 22, 2011, 01:20:53 PM
 #24

Short answer, I don't like to "invest" my money in things I don't have a lot of direct control over. That's why I bought an inexpensive video card rather than a few bitcoins at peak price. For me it's been a fun hobby so far but I prefer searching though real coins for base metals and silver. With coin sorting there is still the lottery aspect but the markets are not nearly as volatile.

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stergium
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June 22, 2011, 01:41:44 PM
 #25

i don't have money to invest   Grin
bitebitebite
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June 22, 2011, 01:50:19 PM
 #26

 The fact it takes comparatively long to transfer money into exchanges (used to a max 2 hour transfer), needs to be converted beforehand, and may dissapear at any minute with little recourse. Apart from that, nothing. Wish I could get a few thousand £ into mt. Gox in quicktime with it being secure to take advantage of the expected dip. I guess my input is - a more professional level has to be attained before I risk my money with bitcoins, amateur hour has outstayed its welcome
HappyFunnyFoo
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June 22, 2011, 04:08:38 PM
 #27

1. No independent third-party audit of the source code (Satoshi could be one rich man one day).

2. No independent third-party audit of the latest development release of the client (nobody in their right mind would put money into a digital entity without security checks and encryption).

3. No trusted third party exchanges able to produce a contract guaranteeing the security of held deposits (my dollars are safe thanks to the FDIC, which is backed by the trust and will of 300 million Americans).

4. Evidence that 99% of the economic activity of bitcoin is generated by exchanges or miners (clear evidence of a super-bubble) - is there a real-world use for bitcoin?

5. Client is still early beta.

I asked these questions in a thread which is currently getting buried...
cothoms
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June 22, 2011, 05:39:41 PM
 #28

I can't, in good conscience, hold bitcoins as a long-term investment because, for me, the future is still clouded due to rampant security issues and real-world viability concerns.

Not a miner.  An investor, speculator, and enthusiast.
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June 22, 2011, 05:54:06 PM
 #29

1. No independent third-party audit of the source code (Satoshi could be one rich man one day).
Irrelevant. You don't need to trust the source code so it doesn't matter. No matter what the source code says, it is computationally infeasible for your bitcoins to be taken.

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2. No independent third-party audit of the latest development release of the client (nobody in their right mind would put money into a digital entity without security checks and encryption).
Doesn't matter. You don't need to trust the client. The protocol includes security checks and encryption.

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3. No trusted third party exchanges able to produce a contract guaranteeing the security of held deposits (my dollars are safe thanks to the FDIC, which is backed by the trust and will of 300 million Americans).
Doesn't matter. You don't need anything to hold your deposits. If you have secured your private key, there is no known mechanism for compromising your deposits.

I think you're missing that the security of the system comes from the protocol, not anything else. Your other points are valid, IMO.

I am an employee of Ripple.
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Litt
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June 22, 2011, 09:39:15 PM
 #30

1. No independent third-party audit of the source code (Satoshi could be one rich man one day).

2. No independent third-party audit of the latest development release of the client (nobody in their right mind would put money into a digital entity without security checks and encryption).

3. No trusted third party exchanges able to produce a contract guaranteeing the security of held deposits (my dollars are safe thanks to the FDIC, which is backed by the trust and will of 300 million Americans).

4. Evidence that 99% of the economic activity of bitcoin is generated by exchanges or miners (clear evidence of a super-bubble) - is there a real-world use for bitcoin?

5. Client is still early beta.

I asked these questions in a thread which is currently getting buried...

1.Bitcoin client is being audited by independent 3rd party all the time because they are open source. If you want to do  your own audit, you may.

2. The deposits held are in the record of every single one of the clients blockchain. Every user holding the same blockchain you have are essentially serves as witness to you holding w/e amount of bitcoins that you do. This blockchain always will be the same on all clients therefore you don't need trusted third party to do any accounting to guarantee your holdings. What could be better than having the entire "jury" agreeing to the same facts that your claim are true on your accounting books? Because that is literally what is happening when bitcoin transfers ownership from one to another and is recorded on the blockchain ledger so to speak. Encyption is on it's way to be in the client itself shortly, but the option is already available if you seek to perform this function yourself via truecrypt or similar software available for free.  

3. You have a choice to not use any exchanges if you don't want to. You are not investing in an exchange, but in bitcoins. Due to bitcoin being still at in infancy, exchange services providers have yet to come up with a bulletproof solution as of yet it seems. Not worried as growing value of bitcoin will simply demand a better exchange and free market will surely respond and meet that need at the right time. For now, I just consider all hick-ups at exchanges as early growing pains.

4. If you could actually provide the evidence that 99% percent of all economic activity of bitcon is generated by exchanges or miners, I will acknowledge this as a valid question rather than a troll attempt. Just as a quick reply, bitcoin is still at it's infancy and there is still a valid need to exchanges currently. This obviously will change as the acceptance of the currency grows with time and more and more business accept bitcoins directly reducing the need to exchanges altogether.

5. This comes down to your own level of risk tolerance. One thing for certain is that the code is open and transparent. If you are like me and others that are accepting of the risks, then you can give yourself the option to participate early in a new currency that was just created. If you also have the technical knowledge, you can easily see that the core functionality of the currency and it's cypto are very secure. Of course you should take responsibility of your own security at all times regardless of involvement in btc or not. Somehow I have the feeling that even when the beta tag comes off the official client, that it will still continuously be updated and supported. I don't see how this is any different than how it will be for the rest of it's existence.






Litt
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June 22, 2011, 09:45:01 PM
 #31

I can't, in good conscience, hold bitcoins as a long-term investment because, for me, the future is still clouded due to rampant security issues and real-world viability concerns.

This is the reason why some people like Steve Jobs are called visionaries whereas ordinary people buy his ipads instead.
frutza
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June 26, 2011, 12:31:02 AM
 #32

yep, some universal standard interface would be cool. would make arbitrage so much easier  Grin
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June 26, 2011, 01:00:49 AM
 #33

The first rule of smart investing is diversification. Putting away your life savings into one thing is something only old people with dementia ought to do.

Secondly, BTC is not even comparable to the stock market in its volatility. That would be like comparing a mild draft to a hurricane. If any one person decides to sell a large amount, the price plummets.

My philosophy as an investor could be said to be conservative and long-term interested. Although I do have a weak spot for things like BTC which I do try to set a little bit of money aside for.

DO IT
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June 26, 2011, 02:13:03 AM
 #34

I don't have tons of money.  I have more value in bitcoins than in cash. And my net worth is negative due to student loans.

As we slide down the banister of life, this is just another splinter in our ass.
qualia8
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June 26, 2011, 04:51:41 AM
 #35

I keep my percentage small for 2 main reasons:

1. Bank-driven legislation.  Everyone else on here feels comfortable being a criminal.  Whether BTC would survive while illegal is one question, and I think it would survive.  Whether I'm willing to risk my reputation, freedom, etc., to use it while illegal is another.  If BTC use and exchange is illegal, I'm out, and I'm guessing others like me are too.

2. Over-concentration among miners.  Either a tech breakthrough, a massive buy of equipment, or collusion by pools could disrupt the integrity of the currency.  It's not a flaw in the protocol, it's an unavoidable feature of human nature.  Satoshi's brilliant solution depends on decentralization, and as we've already seen, the free market does not guarantee it.  Collusion between the big 3 pools would already constitute a majority of computing power.  And that is before those with a vested interest in bitcoin get involved.

Nothing else troubles me deeply.

Still, it's just such a winning idea, I feel a duty to do my part while I still legally can.
skyhigh
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June 26, 2011, 05:52:32 AM
 #36

security

liquidity

withdraw limits


Picture a trader with lets say ONLY $500k scalping AAPL or GOOG or any other liquid stock every day. To that guy bitcoin is a joke, no matter what it could be potentially worth years from now. They simply can't trust $500k to any exchange right now, even if they did trust an exchange, liquidity is way to small for them to matter and then in the end there is 10k per month withdraw limit without going through 5634 hoops, sending personal info to some geeky guy and his friend in Tokyo.


Plus on top of everything $500k is small potatoes. So we will let YOU trade your lunch money and be in awe when you see 50k block go through.
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June 26, 2011, 06:01:18 AM
 #37

The fact that there is no specific reason to use BTC. There is the MT GOX Stock Market Game. But that's only based on the popularity of BTC. So there's nothing to base my decisions on except other people's opinions.

Now, if there was some official use for it, other than a shaky gambling game, I would invest.


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June 26, 2011, 06:06:20 AM
 #38

Liquidity is there, but daily withdrawal limits are there as well  Grin
Jack of Diamonds
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June 26, 2011, 01:37:03 PM
 #39

1. Bank-driven legislation.  Everyone else on here feels comfortable being a criminal.  Whether BTC would survive while illegal is one question, and I think it would survive.  Whether I'm willing to risk my reputation, freedom, etc., to use it while illegal is another.  If BTC use and exchange is illegal, I'm out, and I'm guessing others like me are too.

Are you sure you don't work for the communist party of China?

It's illegal to access Facebok, Youtube, Twitter, IMDb and Wikileaks. Really, you can go to prison for attempting to proxy your way into these sites.

Maybe they will also add Bitcoin to the list.
Doesn't mean anything is wrong with those services; Nor that the majority of the world will stop using them even if some board of fat old men in suits decides they are a 'turmoil to the people'.

I'm not an anarchist by any means. Probably right-wing if anything. I just don't see why BTC being made illegal somewhere would make it's use condemnable.

Online poker is banned in the USA because they hate losing tax revenue;
Doesn't mean it's not being played 24/7 in all the other countries of the world. Doesn't mean americans now condemn online poker as a game.

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qualia8
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June 26, 2011, 04:53:52 PM
 #40

1. Bank-driven legislation.  Everyone else on here feels comfortable being a criminal.  Whether BTC would survive while illegal is one question, and I think it would survive.  Whether I'm willing to risk my reputation, freedom, etc., to use it while illegal is another.  If BTC use and exchange is illegal, I'm out, and I'm guessing others like me are too.

Are you sure you don't work for the communist party of China?

It's illegal to access Facebok, Youtube, Twitter, IMDb and Wikileaks. Really, you can go to prison for attempting to proxy your way into these sites.

Maybe they will also add Bitcoin to the list.
Doesn't mean anything is wrong with those services; Nor that the majority of the world will stop using them even if some board of fat old men in suits decides they are a 'turmoil to the people'.

I'm not an anarchist by any means. Probably right-wing if anything. I just don't see why BTC being made illegal somewhere would make it's use condemnable.

Online poker is banned in the USA because they hate losing tax revenue;
Doesn't mean it's not being played 24/7 in all the other countries of the world. Doesn't mean americans now condemn online poker as a game.

I agree in principle, but I think the banking industry is not equivalent to the music industry.  I'm personally not willing to take the risk of transacting in BTC if it could land me in prison.  I'm not a 14-yr-old gamer, I have a respectable life I don't want to lose.  I think there are many others like me.
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