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Author Topic: Zpool.ca: Does it take 20-22% fee?  (Read 7726 times)
PolarFiasco
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June 18, 2017, 10:07:21 PM
 #41

The problem with any autoexchange is that you don't get to decide when the coins get sold.  You may have mined them up when the coin was at its peak, but there is no guarantee that the coins get sold instantly after being mined.  The way that altcoin markets move I'd expect there to be a lot of variability as to when the coins actually get sold.  Having them using a trailing average price isn't that unreasonable either.  If you want to be able to execute the best price trades then you need to not use auto-exchange.  Even MPH and other pools that give fee rates for exchange likely don't include price fluctuations.

You are paying for convenience of not having to deal with multiple exchanges and still be able to play some variable algo mining to try and take advantage of those fluctuations.  In fact if it were my exchange and the price tanked on a coin, I might intentionally pay out a perceived value of the coins and try and maximize the profits later.  This might also be why you have such a gap between how much value you have unpaid and what is confirmed.  Maybe I'm wrong, but none of this seems "shady" to me, just not fully transparent.  Unless the system showed you exactly what price you supposedly mined up the coins at versus the price of when those coins were actually sold on the exchange would you know the gap.  The talk here seems to be more about backseat trading when you have the system set on autopilot.  If you think you can trade it better then mine up the coins directly and sell them yourself, that's the only way you can guarantee the prices.

As far as I've seen the payout on zpool.ca is pretty close to what I would expect for my hashrates, but instead of relying on one coin I can mine 15+ depending on the fluctuations.

I am cool with exchange rate volatility and pool op making some money of the swings for the convenience, but why not publish what the coins are/were being exchanged at?  And on the "shady" part, since this info was not provided, I am concerned about exchanging the coins for a higher value and pool op keeping the difference.  If that is being done and not being disclosed...that is shady.  SP's example above seems to show this shadiness which concerns me.  '

If I try zpool then I guess I need to watch the exchanges to see if I am getting ripped off...but then again if I am watching the exchanges I might as well trade the coins myself, so I guess there is no point to using zpool after all.  Way to go zpool, shady or not, you just lost a miner.
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Jaerin
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June 18, 2017, 10:30:33 PM
 #42

The problem with any autoexchange is that you don't get to decide when the coins get sold.  You may have mined them up when the coin was at its peak, but there is no guarantee that the coins get sold instantly after being mined.  The way that altcoin markets move I'd expect there to be a lot of variability as to when the coins actually get sold.  Having them using a trailing average price isn't that unreasonable either.  If you want to be able to execute the best price trades then you need to not use auto-exchange.  Even MPH and other pools that give fee rates for exchange likely don't include price fluctuations.

You are paying for convenience of not having to deal with multiple exchanges and still be able to play some variable algo mining to try and take advantage of those fluctuations.  In fact if it were my exchange and the price tanked on a coin, I might intentionally pay out a perceived value of the coins and try and maximize the profits later.  This might also be why you have such a gap between how much value you have unpaid and what is confirmed.  Maybe I'm wrong, but none of this seems "shady" to me, just not fully transparent.  Unless the system showed you exactly what price you supposedly mined up the coins at versus the price of when those coins were actually sold on the exchange would you know the gap.  The talk here seems to be more about backseat trading when you have the system set on autopilot.  If you think you can trade it better then mine up the coins directly and sell them yourself, that's the only way you can guarantee the prices.

As far as I've seen the payout on zpool.ca is pretty close to what I would expect for my hashrates, but instead of relying on one coin I can mine 15+ depending on the fluctuations.

I am cool with exchange rate volatility and pool op making some money of the swings for the convenience, but why not publish what the coins are/were being exchanged at?  And on the "shady" part, since this info was not provided, I am concerned about exchanging the coins for a higher value and pool op keeping the difference.  If that is being done and not being disclosed...that is shady.  SP's example above seems to show this shadiness which concerns me.  '

If I try zpool then I guess I need to watch the exchanges to see if I am getting ripped off...but then again if I am watching the exchanges I might as well trade the coins myself, so I guess there is no point to using zpool after all.  Way to go zpool, shady or not, you just lost a miner.


He didn't though.  All he showed was that 4 hours after the coins were found they were  exchanged for .035 and that there was a point on the Poloniex exchange that they could have been sold for more potentially.  I'm not suspecting his evidence, but neither have timestamps so how do you really know that peak was when the coins were mined up.  How long of a delay would you expect there to be to move the coins from the pool to the exchanges?  With autoexchange you don't get to decide when the coins get sold.  I would hope there is some logic that wouldn't sell the coins immediately after a dip or something like that, but again that is up to the algorithm to decide when the coins get sold.  It could have just as easily skyrocketed and sold for more than when coins were mined and then you'd see a bonus.  The problem seems to be that you don't get to see exactly when the coins you mined got sold and for how much.  I don't know of any pool with auto-exchange that gives that detailed information.  Nor would I necessarily expect it would because it would likely just generate tons of people complaining that the system sold their coins at the wrong time and it should have waited, or sold sooner.  If you don't like it then grab the Yiimp code and rewrite it such that each user can control when the coins go to the exchange to get converted?

As you said if you're watching the exchanges and want to maximize your profits on the trading side then auto-exchange pools are likely not for you.  I've got a bunch of coins "sitting on the exchange" at MPH that I have no clue when they will get converted to my currency of choice.  This isn't something that is exclusive to Zpool.


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June 19, 2017, 07:18:31 AM
 #43

the point is that it also happens if you don't exchange, and this is exclusive to zpool. I have not seen another pool stealing 20%, yet.

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June 21, 2017, 12:41:40 AM
 #44

I think people also have to realize is how much is going to BTC transfer fees.  They are close to $10 per transfer at this point and the minimum payout every 12 hours is .01 BTC or about $25-29 dollars.  That's upto 30-40% of your earnings if you get your payout in BTC.  This alone could be the cause of people's complaints and not really the pools fault.  This would be true of any pool that pays out in BTC.

Perhaps an option to allow for more delayed payouts in BTC would allow for better returns.

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June 21, 2017, 03:05:08 AM
 #45

I think people also have to realize is how much is going to BTC transfer fees.  They are close to $10 per transfer at this point and the minimum payout every 12 hours is .01 BTC or about $25-29 dollars.  That's upto 30-40% of your earnings if you get your payout in BTC.  This alone could be the cause of people's complaints and not really the pools fault.  This would be true of any pool that pays out in BTC.

Perhaps an option to allow for more delayed payouts in BTC would allow for better returns.

I don't think it works quite like you're thinking...

Here is the payout transaction - https://btc.blockr.io/tx/info/ac4c97f0965ac1d3228d8c0b0a3508cca6b69fccc6aae88c406823e4f99e1a6b

BTC paid out - 4.02472877
Fee paid is   - 0.01963269

So that fee is ~$53 and I assume it is spread across all miners that you can see that got paid.

Although it would be great if Crackfoo could confirm
Jaerin
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June 21, 2017, 03:34:07 AM
 #46

I'd hope that it is all together or something, but it seems like no matter where I mine I'm getting about the same returns regardless of what coin I'm mining for my hashrate or not.

Having 7-1080's and 1-1080Ti, it seems like all I can get is about $60/day whether I mine pure Skein DGB, multi-algo on zpool, or something else.  MPH doesn't seem to offer much different and take a lot longer to move things between the transfer to exchange, on exchange, and moving back to my wallet on MPH.  Not to mention MPH seems a lot harder to know what returns you can expect being spread across so many different coins and exchanging.  Only real benefit there seems to be that I can convert it to ETH which will likely gain more than BTC will in the near future anyways.  Hell I got a bunch of maxcoin on MPH since I didn't realize that Keccak only mined that up and there were no exchanges to trade it on.  $60/day is fine really, but I expected that I might be able to get more.


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June 21, 2017, 03:36:21 PM
 #47

I think people also have to realize is how much is going to BTC transfer fees.  They are close to $10 per transfer at this point and the minimum payout every 12 hours is .01 BTC or about $25-29 dollars.  That's upto 30-40% of your earnings if you get your payout in BTC.  This alone could be the cause of people's complaints and not really the pools fault.  This would be true of any pool that pays out in BTC.

Perhaps an option to allow for more delayed payouts in BTC would allow for better returns.

I don't think it works quite like you're thinking...

Here is the payout transaction - https://btc.blockr.io/tx/info/ac4c97f0965ac1d3228d8c0b0a3508cca6b69fccc6aae88c406823e4f99e1a6b

BTC paid out - 4.02472877
Fee paid is   - 0.01963269

So that fee is ~$53 and I assume it is spread across all miners that you can see that got paid.

Although it would be great if Crackfoo could confirm

I pay the tx's fee's, they're not spread across miners balances.

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July 05, 2017, 10:06:23 AM
 #48

I'm not convinced that there isn't a problem either. I love the concept of zpool but every time I've tested it I get really disappointed.

I tested it yesterday for 12 hours, pointed 2 rigs to it. The estimated earnings should have been close to $25-30 total for those 12 hours. I stopped last night and waited until today to confirm (once all earnings cleared as last night some were still immature or on the exchange) and my unpaid balance today is only worth around $12, so less than half of what estimates were.

Pool was seeing my correct hashrates each time I checked yesterday, the coins it was mining were in the range for the payout I expected and as far as I know none of those coins tanked before being exchanged.



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July 06, 2017, 04:05:04 AM
 #49

Well this is what I've been getting the little less than a week from mining on zpool.  There were some minor periods of missing data, but overall this is pretty indicative of what I've been earning.

This is all queried from the site on a 5 minute basis.  The beginning was when Bitcore was having its huge surge at the beginning of the week and therefore I was getting much better returns and quicker payouts.  Since then the markets have cooled and earnings are slowing down, but as you can see it is all pretty consistent with mine.  Note that this is using Multipoolminer only mining on Zpool with just about every algorithm enabled.  So it is switching algorithms up to once a minute depending on profitability.

This is the earnings from 7  - 1080's and 1 - 1080Ti running 24/7 at 80% TDP

Maybe I could earn more somewhere else mining one particular coin, but this is very straight-forward and easy to do.  Chart was created on Google sheets from an imported CSV file.  If someone has better suggestions on charting or data that they would like to see from this presented in a different way then by all means let me know.

Everything is on the Left Axis except the Green Total payout line is referring to the Right Axis.  The Total gain line at the bottom is the 5 minute change since the last gain entry.  Everything is in BTC





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July 25, 2017, 03:23:45 PM
 #50

I stand corrected.   I did my own calculations and there is most DEFINITELY a 20% cut being taken.

My evidence

Feel free to take a look at all the work and check it for errors:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18G3-tVapwWzVAp83SExJpZlLAmahLDoNwQBIETDPeeU/edit?usp=sharing


Image of wallet payouts:
https://i.imgur.com/zrvXM9A.png

As you can see in every single case EXCEPT SIGT I was paid no more than 94% of the LOWEST market price for the last 24 hours.  



So as you can see even if all coins were sold at LOWEST market value for the last 24 hours I was paid on average 84% of that amount.  Every coin has moved to the exchange and cleared and is sitting in my unpaid value.  With the exception of SIGT which had a price range of over 300% change throughout the day the value of every coin sold was LESS than the lowest market price.

There are screenshots of every exchange that I used for pricing data showing that it is for the last 24 hours and it includes my system clock in the lower right showing both date and time I checked the data.

As I said mine on Zpool if you want, but just be aware of the truth in payouts.   Either Crackfoo's exchange script dumps well below the lowest market price for the day, we pay a HUGE exchange fee, or there is a cut being taken above the 2-2.5% fees advertised.   I have nothing to gain by presenting the information.  My goal is only to inform.

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July 25, 2017, 04:14:43 PM
 #51

Thanks for doing all those calculations. I've had terrible payouts when using zpool as well.
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July 25, 2017, 07:32:48 PM
 #52

I stand corrected.   I did my own calculations and there is most DEFINITELY a 20% cut being taken.

My evidence

Feel free to take a look at all the work and check it for errors:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18G3-tVapwWzVAp83SExJpZlLAmahLDoNwQBIETDPeeU/edit?usp=sharing


Image of wallet payouts:
https://i.imgur.com/zrvXM9A.png

As you can see in every single case EXCEPT SIGT I was paid no more than 94% of the LOWEST market price for the last 24 hours.  



So as you can see even if all coins were sold at LOWEST market value for the last 24 hours I was paid on average 84% of that amount.  Every coin has moved to the exchange and cleared and is sitting in my unpaid value.  With the exception of SIGT which had a price range of over 300% change throughout the day the value of every coin sold was LESS than the lowest market price.

There are screenshots of every exchange that I used for pricing data showing that it is for the last 24 hours and it includes my system clock in the lower right showing both date and time I checked the data.

As I said mine on Zpool if you want, but just be aware of the truth in payouts.   Either Crackfoo's exchange script dumps well below the lowest market price for the day, we pay a HUGE exchange fee, or there is a cut being taken above the 2-2.5% fees advertised.   I have nothing to gain by presenting the information.  My goal is only to inform.

Where do you mine now?  I don't know if he is actually doing something, or if it is a glitch, but I'm still doing pretty good.  If there was a different one that did exchange to BTC, then I might jump to that.
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July 25, 2017, 09:30:34 PM
 #53

It's not a glitch...you can calculate the same thing pretty easily and see its the same for all coins.   I'm mining SIGT directly on Suprnova right now, but when that dies down I'll likely use Multipoolminer on Yiimp or the like and to the exchanges myself.

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July 26, 2017, 05:00:35 PM
 #54

Aha, as I c the part of story gone public Smiley I've got much more to say about coins theft & exchange cheating, I made smaller investigation & found (u all just search the zpool topic if crackfoo hadn't cleared the evidence, but there's much of it) exchange issues raised periodically, but attracting almost no attention. There are also several ShapeShift references, and payouts are bulk processed, add together 2 & 2, guys. U can also contact ShapeShift pretending pool owner & ask for ur % on bulk exchange Wink I also have some questions about merged mining, I'm almost sure the pool's merged mining coins for crackfoo using miners' hashrate.

Got many screens & other evidence. I plan to make the most of the story as crackfoo'd stolen my money, up 2 legal enforcement. I'm reported the pool's servers r already found, but not crackfoo, though I haven't contacted authorities yet. But I will when I get the exact servers location & provider name.

I definitely don't post all only here not 2 be lost among others', start new topic. I also send 2 all main crypto-press. U guys, please, either send me all your cases & evidence in short 2 be added 2 my story (links r nice if pointed 2 full but short description with evidence if any), or leave as is. Anyway, I post the story here 2, and u can join the claim upon consideration.
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July 26, 2017, 05:05:59 PM
 #55

Aha, as I c the part of story gone public Smiley I've got much more to say about coins theft & exchange cheating, I made smaller investigation & found (u all just search the topic if crackfoo hadn't cleared the evidence, but there's much of it) exchange issues raised periodically, but attracting almost no attention. There are also several ShapeShift references, and payouts are bulk processed, add together 2 & 2, guys. U can also contact ShapeShift pretending pool owner & ask for ur % on bulk exchange Wink I also have some questions about merged mining, I'm almost sure the pool's merged mining coins for crackfoo using miners' hashrate.

Got many screens & other evidence. I plan to make the most of the story as crackfoo'd stolen my money, up 2 legal enforcement. I'm reported the pool's servers r already found, but not crackfoo, though I haven't contacted authorities yet. But I will when I get the exact servers location & provider name.

I definitely don't post all only here not 2 be lost among others', start new topic. I also send 2 all main crypto-press. U guys, please, either send me all your cases & evidence in short 2 be added 2 my story (links r nice if pointed 2 full but short description with evidence if any), or leave as is. Anyway, I post the story here 2, and u can join the claim upon consideration.

Just gonna quote this for you so everyone can refer to this and your suggestions to impersonate an entity for the purpose of obtaining information which violates many privacy laws, fraud, identity theft among others.

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July 26, 2017, 05:21:07 PM
 #56

I understand their are oddities, the exchange mode is not supported or tested by the maintainer but it is all open source and regardless pays more than other multipool IMO. I'm not a dev. I welcome changes if there are better way to run the exchange mode: https://github.com/tpruvot/yiimp

Liar, u know how ur exchange works from the start. U just make it 4 ur good.

Couldn't keep off this lie, sorry, man Cheesy

Just gonna quote this 4 people to c. And ur quotation is nice except 4 it comes from the thief, swindler and lier, who should be properly prosecuted by authorities. As there's almost no chance that most of crypto-currency system evidence is likely 2 be accepted by law enforcement, I find the way 2 protect me & other people using another way, which possibly includes breaking criminal's (urs, crackfoo) privacy. U can push the question to the community, ok, I provide evidence in raw, but, indeed, in the case u'd better disappear asap Smiley
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July 30, 2017, 04:06:42 PM
 #57

Aha, as I c the part of story gone public Smiley I've got much more to say about coins theft & exchange cheating, I made smaller investigation & found (u all just search the topic if crackfoo hadn't cleared the evidence, but there's much of it) exchange issues raised periodically, but attracting almost no attention. There are also several ShapeShift references, and payouts are bulk processed, add together 2 & 2, guys. U can also contact ShapeShift pretending pool owner & ask for ur % on bulk exchange Wink I also have some questions about merged mining, I'm almost sure the pool's merged mining coins for crackfoo using miners' hashrate.

Got many screens & other evidence. I plan to make the most of the story as crackfoo'd stolen my money, up 2 legal enforcement. I'm reported the pool's servers r already found, but not crackfoo, though I haven't contacted authorities yet. But I will when I get the exact servers location & provider name.

I definitely don't post all only here not 2 be lost among others', start new topic. I also send 2 all main crypto-press. U guys, please, either send me all your cases & evidence in short 2 be added 2 my story (links r nice if pointed 2 full but short description with evidence if any), or leave as is. Anyway, I post the story here 2, and u can join the claim upon consideration.

Just gonna quote this for you so everyone can refer to this and your suggestions to impersonate an entity for the purpose of obtaining information which violates many privacy laws, fraud, identity theft among others.

Dear Crackfoo sir,

Irrespective of whether the information was obtained legally or not, is it true ? (Regarding the % commission as pool owner, for bulk dealing)
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July 30, 2017, 05:52:31 PM
 #58

I'm more curious about the % of coins being exchanged internally by miners and that could be where the calculations are off.
The examples listed here are Mine Coins---->Sell Coins on Exchanges------>Send BTC to Miners

But in reality its below.
Mine Coins----->Pay Miners in coins------>Sell Coins on Exchange------> Send BTC to Miners









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A new tool for prediction https://bitvol.info/


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July 30, 2017, 05:53:14 PM
 #59

you cherry pick top price  and if you waited for it to go higher and it dropped  you would be lower.



Here is more prof:

After 11 days I finally found a LBRY block:

http://zpool.ca/?address=1CTiNJyoUmbdMRACtteRWXhGqtSETYd6Vd

341 LBC is converted to 0.035290 btc

If I had sold them on poloniex. I would have got 0.048081 (+36%)



Please support sidehack with his new miner project Send to : 1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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July 30, 2017, 07:08:42 PM
 #60

They do take quite a lot, but what else pool I can use if I want auto exchange to BTC?
I am using miningpoolhub sometimes, but it has less coins to mine.
I don't want to sell myself, it is simply too much hassle.
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