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felixbrucker
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June 19, 2017, 07:18:31 AM |
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the point is that it also happens if you don't exchange, and this is exclusive to zpool. I have not seen another pool stealing 20%, yet.
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Jaerin
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June 21, 2017, 12:41:40 AM |
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I think people also have to realize is how much is going to BTC transfer fees. They are close to $10 per transfer at this point and the minimum payout every 12 hours is .01 BTC or about $25-29 dollars. That's upto 30-40% of your earnings if you get your payout in BTC. This alone could be the cause of people's complaints and not really the pools fault. This would be true of any pool that pays out in BTC.
Perhaps an option to allow for more delayed payouts in BTC would allow for better returns.
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zer0k
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June 21, 2017, 03:05:08 AM |
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I think people also have to realize is how much is going to BTC transfer fees. They are close to $10 per transfer at this point and the minimum payout every 12 hours is .01 BTC or about $25-29 dollars. That's upto 30-40% of your earnings if you get your payout in BTC. This alone could be the cause of people's complaints and not really the pools fault. This would be true of any pool that pays out in BTC.
Perhaps an option to allow for more delayed payouts in BTC would allow for better returns.
I don't think it works quite like you're thinking... Here is the payout transaction - https://btc.blockr.io/tx/info/ac4c97f0965ac1d3228d8c0b0a3508cca6b69fccc6aae88c406823e4f99e1a6bBTC paid out - 4.02472877 Fee paid is - 0.01963269 So that fee is ~$53 and I assume it is spread across all miners that you can see that got paid. Although it would be great if Crackfoo could confirm |
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Jaerin
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June 21, 2017, 03:34:07 AM |
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I'd hope that it is all together or something, but it seems like no matter where I mine I'm getting about the same returns regardless of what coin I'm mining for my hashrate or not.
Having 7-1080's and 1-1080Ti, it seems like all I can get is about $60/day whether I mine pure Skein DGB, multi-algo on zpool, or something else. MPH doesn't seem to offer much different and take a lot longer to move things between the transfer to exchange, on exchange, and moving back to my wallet on MPH. Not to mention MPH seems a lot harder to know what returns you can expect being spread across so many different coins and exchanging. Only real benefit there seems to be that I can convert it to ETH which will likely gain more than BTC will in the near future anyways. Hell I got a bunch of maxcoin on MPH since I didn't realize that Keccak only mined that up and there were no exchanges to trade it on. $60/day is fine really, but I expected that I might be able to get more.
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crackfoo
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June 21, 2017, 03:36:21 PM |
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I think people also have to realize is how much is going to BTC transfer fees. They are close to $10 per transfer at this point and the minimum payout every 12 hours is .01 BTC or about $25-29 dollars. That's upto 30-40% of your earnings if you get your payout in BTC. This alone could be the cause of people's complaints and not really the pools fault. This would be true of any pool that pays out in BTC.
Perhaps an option to allow for more delayed payouts in BTC would allow for better returns.
I don't think it works quite like you're thinking... Here is the payout transaction - https://btc.blockr.io/tx/info/ac4c97f0965ac1d3228d8c0b0a3508cca6b69fccc6aae88c406823e4f99e1a6bBTC paid out - 4.02472877 Fee paid is - 0.01963269 So that fee is ~$53 and I assume it is spread across all miners that you can see that got paid. Although it would be great if Crackfoo could confirm I pay the tx's fee's, they're not spread across miners balances. |
ZPOOL - the miners multipool! Support We pay 10 FLUX Parallel Assets (PA) directly to block rewards! Get paid more and faster. No PA fee's or waiting around for them, paid instantly on every block found!
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natminer
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July 05, 2017, 10:06:23 AM |
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I'm not convinced that there isn't a problem either. I love the concept of zpool but every time I've tested it I get really disappointed.
I tested it yesterday for 12 hours, pointed 2 rigs to it. The estimated earnings should have been close to $25-30 total for those 12 hours. I stopped last night and waited until today to confirm (once all earnings cleared as last night some were still immature or on the exchange) and my unpaid balance today is only worth around $12, so less than half of what estimates were.
Pool was seeing my correct hashrates each time I checked yesterday, the coins it was mining were in the range for the payout I expected and as far as I know none of those coins tanked before being exchanged.
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Jaerin
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July 06, 2017, 04:05:04 AM
Last edit: July 25, 2017, 03:22:14 PM by Jaerin |
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Well this is what I've been getting the little less than a week from mining on zpool. There were some minor periods of missing data, but overall this is pretty indicative of what I've been earning.
This is all queried from the site on a 5 minute basis. The beginning was when Bitcore was having its huge surge at the beginning of the week and therefore I was getting much better returns and quicker payouts. Since then the markets have cooled and earnings are slowing down, but as you can see it is all pretty consistent with mine. Note that this is using Multipoolminer only mining on Zpool with just about every algorithm enabled. So it is switching algorithms up to once a minute depending on profitability.
This is the earnings from 7 - 1080's and 1 - 1080Ti running 24/7 at 80% TDP
Maybe I could earn more somewhere else mining one particular coin, but this is very straight-forward and easy to do. Chart was created on Google sheets from an imported CSV file. If someone has better suggestions on charting or data that they would like to see from this presented in a different way then by all means let me know.
Everything is on the Left Axis except the Green Total payout line is referring to the Right Axis. The Total gain line at the bottom is the 5 minute change since the last gain entry. Everything is in BTC
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Jaerin
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July 25, 2017, 03:23:45 PM |
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I stand corrected. I did my own calculations and there is most DEFINITELY a 20% cut being taken. My evidence Feel free to take a look at all the work and check it for errors: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18G3-tVapwWzVAp83SExJpZlLAmahLDoNwQBIETDPeeU/edit?usp=sharingImage of wallet payouts: https://i.imgur.com/zrvXM9A.pngAs you can see in every single case EXCEPT SIGT I was paid no more than 94% of the LOWEST market price for the last 24 hours.  So as you can see even if all coins were sold at LOWEST market value for the last 24 hours I was paid on average 84% of that amount. Every coin has moved to the exchange and cleared and is sitting in my unpaid value. With the exception of SIGT which had a price range of over 300% change throughout the day the value of every coin sold was LESS than the lowest market price. There are screenshots of every exchange that I used for pricing data showing that it is for the last 24 hours and it includes my system clock in the lower right showing both date and time I checked the data. As I said mine on Zpool if you want, but just be aware of the truth in payouts. Either Crackfoo's exchange script dumps well below the lowest market price for the day, we pay a HUGE exchange fee, or there is a cut being taken above the 2-2.5% fees advertised. I have nothing to gain by presenting the information. My goal is only to inform. |
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natminer
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July 25, 2017, 04:14:43 PM |
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Thanks for doing all those calculations. I've had terrible payouts when using zpool as well.
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jmayniac
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July 25, 2017, 07:32:48 PM |
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I stand corrected. I did my own calculations and there is most DEFINITELY a 20% cut being taken. My evidence Feel free to take a look at all the work and check it for errors: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18G3-tVapwWzVAp83SExJpZlLAmahLDoNwQBIETDPeeU/edit?usp=sharingImage of wallet payouts: https://i.imgur.com/zrvXM9A.pngAs you can see in every single case EXCEPT SIGT I was paid no more than 94% of the LOWEST market price for the last 24 hours. https://i.imgur.com/EPaf5ew.pngSo as you can see even if all coins were sold at LOWEST market value for the last 24 hours I was paid on average 84% of that amount. Every coin has moved to the exchange and cleared and is sitting in my unpaid value. With the exception of SIGT which had a price range of over 300% change throughout the day the value of every coin sold was LESS than the lowest market price. There are screenshots of every exchange that I used for pricing data showing that it is for the last 24 hours and it includes my system clock in the lower right showing both date and time I checked the data. As I said mine on Zpool if you want, but just be aware of the truth in payouts. Either Crackfoo's exchange script dumps well below the lowest market price for the day, we pay a HUGE exchange fee, or there is a cut being taken above the 2-2.5% fees advertised. I have nothing to gain by presenting the information. My goal is only to inform. Where do you mine now? I don't know if he is actually doing something, or if it is a glitch, but I'm still doing pretty good. If there was a different one that did exchange to BTC, then I might jump to that. |
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Jaerin
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July 25, 2017, 09:30:34 PM |
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It's not a glitch...you can calculate the same thing pretty easily and see its the same for all coins. I'm mining SIGT directly on Suprnova right now, but when that dies down I'll likely use Multipoolminer on Yiimp or the like and to the exchanges myself.
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AK74XXX
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July 26, 2017, 05:00:35 PM |
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Aha, as I c the part of story gone public  I've got much more to say about coins theft & exchange cheating, I made smaller investigation & found (u all just search the zpool topic if crackfoo hadn't cleared the evidence, but there's much of it) exchange issues raised periodically, but attracting almost no attention. There are also several ShapeShift references, and payouts are bulk processed, add together 2 & 2, guys. U can also contact ShapeShift pretending pool owner & ask for ur % on bulk exchange  I also have some questions about merged mining, I'm almost sure the pool's merged mining coins for crackfoo using miners' hashrate. Got many screens & other evidence. I plan to make the most of the story as crackfoo'd stolen my money, up 2 legal enforcement. I'm reported the pool's servers r already found, but not crackfoo, though I haven't contacted authorities yet. But I will when I get the exact servers location & provider name. I definitely don't post all only here not 2 be lost among others', start new topic. I also send 2 all main crypto-press. U guys, please, either send me all your cases & evidence in short 2 be added 2 my story (links r nice if pointed 2 full but short description with evidence if any), or leave as is. Anyway, I post the story here 2, and u can join the claim upon consideration. |
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crackfoo
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July 26, 2017, 05:05:59 PM |
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Aha, as I c the part of story gone public I've got much more to say about coins theft & exchange cheating, I made smaller investigation & found (u all just search the topic if crackfoo hadn't cleared the evidence, but there's much of it) exchange issues raised periodically, but attracting almost no attention. There are also several ShapeShift references, and payouts are bulk processed, add together 2 & 2, guys. U can also contact ShapeShift pretending pool owner & ask for ur % on bulk exchange I also have some questions about merged mining, I'm almost sure the pool's merged mining coins for crackfoo using miners' hashrate. Got many screens & other evidence. I plan to make the most of the story as crackfoo'd stolen my money, up 2 legal enforcement. I'm reported the pool's servers r already found, but not crackfoo, though I haven't contacted authorities yet. But I will when I get the exact servers location & provider name. I definitely don't post all only here not 2 be lost among others', start new topic. I also send 2 all main crypto-press. U guys, please, either send me all your cases & evidence in short 2 be added 2 my story (links r nice if pointed 2 full but short description with evidence if any), or leave as is. Anyway, I post the story here 2, and u can join the claim upon consideration. Just gonna quote this for you so everyone can refer to this and your suggestions to impersonate an entity for the purpose of obtaining information which violates many privacy laws, fraud, identity theft among others. |
ZPOOL - the miners multipool! Support We pay 10 FLUX Parallel Assets (PA) directly to block rewards! Get paid more and faster. No PA fee's or waiting around for them, paid instantly on every block found!
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AK74XXX
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July 26, 2017, 05:21:07 PM |
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I understand their are oddities, the exchange mode is not supported or tested by the maintainer but it is all open source and regardless pays more than other multipool IMO. I'm not a dev. I welcome changes if there are better way to run the exchange mode: https://github.com/tpruvot/yiimp, u know how ur exchange works from the start. U just make it 4 ur good. Couldn't keep off this lie, sorry, man  Just gonna quote this 4 people to c. And ur quotation is nice except 4 it comes from the thief, swindler and lier, who should be properly prosecuted by authorities. As there's almost no chance that most of crypto-currency system evidence is likely 2 be accepted by law enforcement, I find the way 2 protect me & other people using another way, which possibly includes breaking criminal's (urs, crackfoo) privacy. U can push the question to the community, ok, I provide evidence in raw, but, indeed, in the case u'd better disappear asap |
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Aravind_NAV
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July 30, 2017, 04:06:42 PM |
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Aha, as I c the part of story gone public I've got much more to say about coins theft & exchange cheating, I made smaller investigation & found (u all just search the topic if crackfoo hadn't cleared the evidence, but there's much of it) exchange issues raised periodically, but attracting almost no attention. There are also several ShapeShift references, and payouts are bulk processed, add together 2 & 2, guys. U can also contact ShapeShift pretending pool owner & ask for ur % on bulk exchange I also have some questions about merged mining, I'm almost sure the pool's merged mining coins for crackfoo using miners' hashrate. Got many screens & other evidence. I plan to make the most of the story as crackfoo'd stolen my money, up 2 legal enforcement. I'm reported the pool's servers r already found, but not crackfoo, though I haven't contacted authorities yet. But I will when I get the exact servers location & provider name. I definitely don't post all only here not 2 be lost among others', start new topic. I also send 2 all main crypto-press. U guys, please, either send me all your cases & evidence in short 2 be added 2 my story (links r nice if pointed 2 full but short description with evidence if any), or leave as is. Anyway, I post the story here 2, and u can join the claim upon consideration. Just gonna quote this for you so everyone can refer to this and your suggestions to impersonate an entity for the purpose of obtaining information which violates many privacy laws, fraud, identity theft among others. Dear Crackfoo sir, Irrespective of whether the information was obtained legally or not, is it true ? (Regarding the % commission as pool owner, for bulk dealing) |
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RandomQ
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July 30, 2017, 05:52:31 PM |
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I'm more curious about the % of coins being exchanged internally by miners and that could be where the calculations are off.
The examples listed here are Mine Coins---->Sell Coins on Exchanges------>Send BTC to Miners
But in reality its below.
Mine Coins----->Pay Miners in coins------>Sell Coins on Exchange------> Send BTC to Miners
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philipma1957
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'The right to privacy matters'
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July 30, 2017, 05:53:14 PM |
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you cherry pick top price and if you waited for it to go higher and it dropped you would be lower. |
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bread22
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July 30, 2017, 07:08:42 PM |
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They do take quite a lot, but what else pool I can use if I want auto exchange to BTC?
I am using miningpoolhub sometimes, but it has less coins to mine.
I don't want to sell myself, it is simply too much hassle.
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joblo
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July 30, 2017, 07:47:31 PM |
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I have seen no convincing data in this thread for either case. Several people posted demonstrations
in the old thread with and without exchange. I abandoned zpool when crackfoo dismissed the problm
out of hand without investigating.
The simplest way to see it is in the graph. Best to choose a pool with only one
coin and a long enough TTF for each block to be clearly visible in the graph. When a matured block is credited to
the balance (status changes to "cleared") there is a visible drop in the total unpaid. The total should not
change significantly when moving from pending to balance.
More detailed tracking can be done by monitoring the value of a particular block. Do the math based on block
reward, % share and exchange price to confirm the pending value. Note the last value prior to exchange and
compare with the amount added to the balance.
Under normal mining condoition visible drops in total unpaid that always coincide with a balance credit could be a sign of the
problem, if it still exists. I've only done a litle bit of mining on zpool recently without specifically testing for this
problem and didn't see anything alarming.
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Jaerin
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July 31, 2017, 05:55:49 PM |
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The problem is that whatever "evidence" gets presented gets dismissed by people saying that there were no timestamps or didn't have exactly what they wanted to see. It is actually really simple for anyone to actually calculate it themselves and yet like me they don't do the calculations and blindly dismiss it as an exchange price difference or something like that.
Even then it comes down to getting someone to find the bug and fix it. Both Crackfoo and Tpruvot claim no responsibility for the exchanging feature and therefore aren't doing anything to investigate or fix the issue. Someone will likely have to submit a pull request to the Github and then get lucky enough to actually have it committed. Then maybe Crackfoo will incorporate it into zpool. I'm pretty sure I found the problem, but haven't had the time to get my own instance of Yiimp setup to verify for sure that it is the function in question and why it is happening.
All the market prices are a calculation of weighted amounts of 20% of the previous value + 80% of the new value and the function is setup such that if the old amount is 0 or out of scope then it simply returns 80% of the current value. This would explain exactly why all the values are 20% or more lower than what people are expecting. I posted a spreadsheet of every coin I mined for a period that I was watching it and in every single case it was lower than the lowest possible market price for the day and yet people still dismissed it as me not giving all the details.
At this point you either accept this missing value from the payouts and mine on Zpool or you don't. Crackfoo seems at this point to at least acknowledge that there might be some oddities going on, but so far hasn't publicly made any effort to resolve the problem. There isn't a lot of incentive for him to do it given that we're talking about eliminating a significant portion of his earnings by fixing it.
I still think that people would be more than willing to pay an exchange fee if they knew what the fee was supposed to be and have it applied consistently. I'll continue to try and get things working so I can try and prove out and fix the bug, but its going to likely take me some time.
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