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June 08, 2017, 05:43:49 AM
 #1

Are there any?

Any at all?


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June 08, 2017, 06:55:24 AM
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Science, Romance and the Scientific Romance of Christendom
http://www.scifiwright.com/2012/04/science-romance-and-the-scientific-romance-of-christendom/

Quote from: John C. Wright

The list of inventions created in the Middle Ages would exhaust the patience of an historian. I will mention only in passing a few off the top of my head: the stirrup, the spur, the horse collar, the horse shoe, the wheelbarrow, the chimney, the paper mill, windmills, escapement and clockworks, the pointed arch, the flying buttress, the jib sail, the stern-mounted rudder, the button, the steel crossbow, the quadrant, the almanac, the hour glass, the eyeglass, oil paintings, and most important of all, the university.

While all cultures, even the most primitive have learning, and all civilizations have scholars, only the Christians ever invented the university, an self governing institution solely devoted to the investigation of the trivium and quadrivium. It is not coincidence that to this day the terms used for logical syllogisms and logical fallacies are in Latin; it is no coincidence that the scientific names for everything from beasts to chemicals is in Latin, the language of science.

One of the astonishing things I discovered after my conversion, or at least, it was an astonishment to me, was that nearly everything I knew about history was false. When England and Germany broke away politically, religiously and culturally as much as they could from the rest of the European civilization, they did their level best to rewrite and reinterpret history into a revised form that denigrated all the accomplishments of the universal and ecumenical catholic Christian Church, and offer alternate explanations or alternate origins for her accomplishments.

Under this revised history, or, to be precise, mythology, the Roman Empire fell due to the invasion of virile outer barbarians racially distinct from the Imperial civilization, and everything from free elections to chivalry toward women sprang from the barbaric rather that civilized sources.

Moreover, according to this mythology, the Middle Ages were a time of magic, when men burned witches; whereas the previous Hellenic civilization was a time of enlightened investigation of the natural world, a time of logic and philosophy.

Allow me to quote from my fellow science fiction writer and good friend Mike Flynn:

The philosophers of the “Age of Reason” called the Middle Ages the “Age of Faith,” and claimed that because “God did it!” was the answer to everything, no one searched for natural laws. Some have since imagined a “war” between science and religion, and accused the medievals of suppressing science, forbidding medical autopsies, and burning scientists. Bad times for science and reason!

Or was it? In fact, the Middle Ages were steeped in reason, logic, and natural philosophy. These subjects comprised virtually the entire curriculum of the universities. The first medical autopsies were done in medieval Europe. And no medieval philosopher was ever prosecuted for a conclusion in natural philosophy. In his twelfth-century Dragmaticon, William of Conches wrote, “[They say] ‘We do not know how this is, but we know that God can do it.’ You poor fools! God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so.” Not even the “Age of Reason” could have said it better.

Well, the most famous philosopher of the Hellenic culture, Socrates, was condemned to death for his investigations, while Aristotle fled into exile. The Hellenes were a people soaked in magic and mysticism, to which the clean intellectualism of Christianity was a shocking and refreshing change. Julian the Apostate, eager to reintroduce the Old Religion, in order to foretell the outcome of his war in Persia, had a slave girl disemboweled and her entrails examined by haruspices, official readers of entrails.

The reason why we think of the Greek as logical and philosophical culture is that the monks of the Dark Ages carefully preserved the ancient writings concerning grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, geometry, music and astronomy.

The monks did not preserve the mystery religions, the mysticism, no more than did the Romans after the conversion of the Empire preserve the barbaric customs and traditions of their pagan fathers, such as slavery, gladiatorial combat, exposing unwanted infants, the right of the father to kill disobedient sons, temple prostitution, temple sodomy prostitution, and no fault divorce.

The people the Church persecuted were not scientists. She upheld and supported the sciences—it was not the secular power, after all, that funded and founded the universities, that was all done by the Church. The people the Church persecuted were astrologers and alchemists. By clearing the strangling underbrush of magic away, the Church is the only thing that permitted science to exist at all.

The Church crushed astrology to allow astronomy to flourish. The oldest astronomical observatory still in use anywhere in the world, significantly enough, is the Vatican observatory.
...
Science arose in Christendom because it could arise nowhere else.

Allow me by way of introduction to quote again from the indispensable Mike Flynn

To summarize briefly, the Latins believed that:

The universe was rationally ordered because a single rational God had willed it into being,
This order was knowable by autonomous human reason by ‘measuring, numbering, and weighing’ (and reason could be trusted in this regard),
Matter could act directly on matter in “the common course of nature;” and because God was true to his promises, these actions were dependable and repeatable; and
The discovery of such relations was a worthwhile pursuit for adults.
They also embedded this pursuit in their culture through broad-based cultural institutions:

Creating independent, self-governing corporations in the social space between Church and State.
Accepting with enthusiasm the work of pagan philosophers and Muslim commentators and reconciling them with their religious beliefs.
Teaching logic, reason, and natural philosophy systematically across the whole of Europe in self-governing universities, in consequence of which:
Nearly every medieval theologian was first trained in natural philosophy, which created enthusiasm for rather than resistance to the study of nature.
Encouraged freedom of inquiry and a culture of “poking into things” by means of the Questions genre and the disputatio.

The reason it could arise nowhere else is that, while scientific breakthroughs are made by particular geniuses, and which refinements of technique are possible in any civilization, scientific progress itself is a orderly group effort, and must be sustained by the consensus of the general society. You cannot have a generally literate society, as Europe had in the Late Middle Ages, without a university system that enjoyed academic freedom.

Science or natural philosophy cannot be maintained by the consensus of society unless that same consensus accept the metaphysical and theological axioms on which natural science is based.

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June 08, 2017, 08:06:58 AM
 #3

Thank you CoinCube,

you understand inherently complementary function of knowledge and faith. Modern science could arise, because of specific value system of christianity.


“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

― G.K. Chesterton

Today in west we see nihilists influenced by marxism consider absolutely everything social construct of someone else. Gender, ethnicity, free speech, laws of physics. Their entire existence narcistically tied to their own self image. It all ultimately comes down to the fact, the they choose to refuse any value system reflecting laws of nature.

Both Darwin and God seem to hate atomization and self destructivity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf2nqmQIfxc
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June 08, 2017, 10:11:49 AM
 #4

Science, Romance and the Scientific Romance of Christendom
http://www.scifiwright.com/2012/04/science-romance-and-the-scientific-romance-of-christendom/

Quote from: John C. Wright

The list of inventions created in the Middle Ages would exhaust the patience of an historian. I will mention only in passing a few off the top of my head: the stirrup, the spur, the horse collar, the horse shoe, the wheelbarrow, the chimney, the paper mill, windmills, escapement and clockworks, the pointed arch, the flying buttress, the jib sail, the stern-mounted rudder, the button, the steel crossbow, the quadrant, the almanac, the hour glass, the eyeglass, oil paintings, and most important of all, the university.

While all cultures, even the most primitive have learning, and all civilizations have scholars, only the Christians ever invented the university, an self governing institution solely devoted to the investigation of the trivium and quadrivium. It is not coincidence that to this day the terms used for logical syllogisms and logical fallacies are in Latin; it is no coincidence that the scientific names for everything from beasts to chemicals is in Latin, the language of science.

One of the astonishing things I discovered after my conversion, or at least, it was an astonishment to me, was that nearly everything I knew about history was false. When England and Germany broke away politically, religiously and culturally as much as they could from the rest of the European civilization, they did their level best to rewrite and reinterpret history into a revised form that denigrated all the accomplishments of the universal and ecumenical catholic Christian Church, and offer alternate explanations or alternate origins for her accomplishments.

Under this revised history, or, to be precise, mythology, the Roman Empire fell due to the invasion of virile outer barbarians racially distinct from the Imperial civilization, and everything from free elections to chivalry toward women sprang from the barbaric rather that civilized sources.

Moreover, according to this mythology, the Middle Ages were a time of magic, when men burned witches; whereas the previous Hellenic civilization was a time of enlightened investigation of the natural world, a time of logic and philosophy.

Allow me to quote from my fellow science fiction writer and good friend Mike Flynn:

The philosophers of the “Age of Reason” called the Middle Ages the “Age of Faith,” and claimed that because “God did it!” was the answer to everything, no one searched for natural laws. Some have since imagined a “war” between science and religion, and accused the medievals of suppressing science, forbidding medical autopsies, and burning scientists. Bad times for science and reason!

Or was it? In fact, the Middle Ages were steeped in reason, logic, and natural philosophy. These subjects comprised virtually the entire curriculum of the universities. The first medical autopsies were done in medieval Europe. And no medieval philosopher was ever prosecuted for a conclusion in natural philosophy. In his twelfth-century Dragmaticon, William of Conches wrote, “[They say] ‘We do not know how this is, but we know that God can do it.’ You poor fools! God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so.” Not even the “Age of Reason” could have said it better.

Well, the most famous philosopher of the Hellenic culture, Socrates, was condemned to death for his investigations, while Aristotle fled into exile. The Hellenes were a people soaked in magic and mysticism, to which the clean intellectualism of Christianity was a shocking and refreshing change. Julian the Apostate, eager to reintroduce the Old Religion, in order to foretell the outcome of his war in Persia, had a slave girl disemboweled and her entrails examined by haruspices, official readers of entrails.

The reason why we think of the Greek as logical and philosophical culture is that the monks of the Dark Ages carefully preserved the ancient writings concerning grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, geometry, music and astronomy.

The monks did not preserve the mystery religions, the mysticism, no more than did the Romans after the conversion of the Empire preserve the barbaric customs and traditions of their pagan fathers, such as slavery, gladiatorial combat, exposing unwanted infants, the right of the father to kill disobedient sons, temple prostitution, temple sodomy prostitution, and no fault divorce.

The people the Church persecuted were not scientists. She upheld and supported the sciences—it was not the secular power, after all, that funded and founded the universities, that was all done by the Church. The people the Church persecuted were astrologers and alchemists. By clearing the strangling underbrush of magic away, the Church is the only thing that permitted science to exist at all.

The Church crushed astrology to allow astronomy to flourish. The oldest astronomical observatory still in use anywhere in the world, significantly enough, is the Vatican observatory.
...
Science arose in Christendom because it could arise nowhere else.

Allow me by way of introduction to quote again from the indispensable Mike Flynn

To summarize briefly, the Latins believed that:

The universe was rationally ordered because a single rational God had willed it into being,
This order was knowable by autonomous human reason by ‘measuring, numbering, and weighing’ (and reason could be trusted in this regard),
Matter could act directly on matter in “the common course of nature;” and because God was true to his promises, these actions were dependable and repeatable; and
The discovery of such relations was a worthwhile pursuit for adults.
They also embedded this pursuit in their culture through broad-based cultural institutions:

Creating independent, self-governing corporations in the social space between Church and State.
Accepting with enthusiasm the work of pagan philosophers and Muslim commentators and reconciling them with their religious beliefs.
Teaching logic, reason, and natural philosophy systematically across the whole of Europe in self-governing universities, in consequence of which:
Nearly every medieval theologian was first trained in natural philosophy, which created enthusiasm for rather than resistance to the study of nature.
Encouraged freedom of inquiry and a culture of “poking into things” by means of the Questions genre and the disputatio.

The reason it could arise nowhere else is that, while scientific breakthroughs are made by particular geniuses, and which refinements of technique are possible in any civilization, scientific progress itself is a orderly group effort, and must be sustained by the consensus of the general society. You cannot have a generally literate society, as Europe had in the Late Middle Ages, without a university system that enjoyed academic freedom.

Science or natural philosophy cannot be maintained by the consensus of society unless that same consensus accept the metaphysical and theological axioms on which natural science is based.

Thats a very interesting article, but i have one problem with it, History states that Chemistry rose from the teaching of Alchemist and the article says that the Church burned the Alchemist, if so then dont you think that they hindered the advancement of Science.



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Rainbot
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June 08, 2017, 11:20:12 AM
 #5

Religion always has been an obstacle for development and science.
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June 08, 2017, 01:55:16 PM
 #6

Thats a very interesting article, but i have one problem with it, History states that Chemistry rose from the teaching of Alchemist and the article says that the Church burned the Alchemist, if so then dont you think that they hindered the advancement of Science.

Alchemy in the Middle Ages was a field of charlatans and con men, happy to sell you a non-working formula for making gold tell you about a potion of immortality or the nearby philosophers stone. For a price they would also sell you a panacea that could "cure any disease."

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June 08, 2017, 02:26:07 PM
 #7

Thats a very interesting article, but i have one problem with it, History states that Chemistry rose from the teaching of Alchemist and the article says that the Church burned the Alchemist, if so then dont you think that they hindered the advancement of Science.

Alchemy in the Middle Ages was a field of charlatans and con men, happy to sell you a non-working formula for making gold tell you about a potion of immortality or the nearby philosophers stone. For a price they would also sell you a panacea that could "cure any disease."
Oh stop it..
Science started when we made FIRE..Cooking and boiling and keeping warm < BIRTH OF SCIENCE..

NOT Christians or jews or any religion you know of started FIRE.. Grin..

So stop with the BULL..   Religion is like witches of yesteryear ..ALL POPPYCOCK ..FAIRY TALES..

The bible is CHINESE WHISPERS ..As time goes on what happens in CHINESE WHISPERS.. Wink
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June 08, 2017, 02:44:59 PM
 #8

Thats a very interesting article, but i have one problem with it, History states that Chemistry rose from the teaching of Alchemist and the article says that the Church burned the Alchemist, if so then dont you think that they hindered the advancement of Science.

Alchemy in the Middle Ages was a field of charlatans and con men, happy to sell you a non-working formula for making gold tell you about a potion of immortality or the nearby philosophers stone. For a price they would also sell you a panacea that could "cure any disease."

How is it different from the current religious con men, a.k.a. organized religion?  At least Alchemists were selling you a real product, some potion or powder!!!

What does the church sell?  Imaginary product, you cannot see or touch.  But they promise that it exist because they wrote it down.

Religion is the best con job EVER!
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June 08, 2017, 02:45:45 PM
 #9

If you think about it WITCHES hold more substance than religion I.E Christians and what not ..

You hear witches making potions  and they always USE FROGS..

Frog Skin Could Help Treat Cancer And Other Diseases - Medical ...
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/227934.php
 Rating: 4.7 - ‎3 votes
8 Jun 2011 - Scientists have discovered two proteins secreted from the skin of frogs that could help treat cancer and other diseases by disrupting the growth .

Frogs Could Provide Big Leap in Antibiotics - VOA News
https://www.voanews.com/a/1576446.html
2 Jan 2013 - Scientists have discovered that different species of frogs produce ... A bit of old Russian folk wisdom could produce a crop of new antibiotics.

Using frog foam to deliver antibiotics - Phys.org
https://phys.org › Chemistry › Biochemistry
23 Mar 2016 - While mating, Tungara frogs (Engystomops pustulosus) release a ... of 72-168 hours, while foam loaded with the antibiotic vancomycin was .

AMAZING CREATURES frogs ..


Any cures in the BIBLE?      i don't know BUT is there any?..

BUT please don't  jump on a broom it wont work .. I tried once  Cheesy..Mind you i thought a broom was a horse one time YEEE HAAAA..
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June 08, 2017, 02:48:34 PM
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Thats a very interesting article, but i have one problem with it, History states that Chemistry rose from the teaching of Alchemist and the article says that the Church burned the Alchemist, if so then dont you think that they hindered the advancement of Science.


Not really. As far as I'm aware of, the majority of alchemists in the middle ages were Christian devotees themselves. Thomas Aquinas, Albertus Magnus, Johannes Trithemius, Roger Bacon, Jakob Böhme, Jean de Roquetaillade are only a few Christian alchemists who propagated this philosophical and proto-scientific tradition throughout Europe. Although I agree with you that the Church banned the practice of Alchemy in 1317 through the decree of Pope John XXII referred to as Spondent quas non exhibent, there remain those who still practice it away from the prying eyes of the Church officials and these includes some Catholic monks and friars. In fact, even some Muslim mystics at that time was known to perform and study alchemy. Artephius and Al-Tughrai are a good example.

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June 08, 2017, 03:09:56 PM
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Thats a very interesting article, but i have one problem with it, History states that Chemistry rose from the teaching of Alchemist and the article says that the Church burned the Alchemist, if so then dont you think that they hindered the advancement of Science.


Not really. As far as I'm aware of, the majority of alchemists in the middle ages were Christian devotees themselves. Thomas Aquinas, Albertus Magnus, Johannes Trithemius, Roger Bacon, Jakob Böhme, Jean de Roquetaillade are only a few Christian alchemists who propagated this philosophical and proto-scientific tradition throughout Europe. Although I agree with you that the Church banned the practice of Alchemy in 1317 through the decree of Pope John XXII referred to as Spondent quas non exhibent, there remain those who still practice it away from the prying eyes of the Church officials and these includes some Catholic monks and friars. In fact, even some Muslim mystics at that time was known to perform and study alchemy. Artephius and Al-Tughrai are a good example.

In Europe there's a simple explanation - most of the educated men work in the church. Mendel for example was a monk who used to study mice during his free time. He was berated for all the stench (not to mention, he was WATCHING them "procreate") and was suggested to go look at peas instead.

Clergy were pretty much the only people who even have any technical knowledge that time. They were historians, mathematicians, doctors, architects, etc. Knowledge wasn't exactly easily available then. Now all of the world's knowledge is just a few taps away. Then it takes years just to hand-copy a single book that libraries had them chained to shelves.
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June 08, 2017, 03:59:22 PM
 #12

Not really. As far as I'm aware of, the majority of alchemists in the middle ages were Christian devotees themselves. Thomas Aquinas, Albertus Magnus, Johannes Trithemius, Roger Bacon, Jakob Böhme, Jean de Roquetaillade are only a few Christian alchemists who propagated this philosophical and proto-scientific tradition throughout Europe. Although I agree with you that the Church banned the practice of Alchemy in 1317 through the decree of Pope John XXII referred to as Spondent quas non exhibent, there remain those who still practice it away from the prying eyes of the Church officials and these includes some Catholic monks and friars. In fact, even some Muslim mystics at that time was known to perform and study alchemy. Artephius and Al-Tughrai are a good example.


The case of alchemy which was initially utterly grounded in charlatans, con men, potions of immortality and panaceas gradually over turning into chemistry over hundreds of years is an example that the road of excess can lead to the palace of wisdom… If the fool would persist.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom… If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise (in relation to the example of Richard Dawkins)
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-road-of-excess-leads-to-palace-of.html

Quote from: Bruce Charlton
Error is self-correcting IF we stick by it honestly, and follow it through to conclusion.

Being wrong is not a spiritual disaster - it is dishonesty which is the disaster: it is living by expedient lies which leads to Hell. Because expedient lies prevent us from recognising error.

This created world has ultimate coherence, since it is the product of one God. Therefore, all error will reveal itself in incoherence.

(Of course, coherence is Not the same as logic; since logic, like mathematics - or which it may be the parent - is a partial model of reality; and logical coherence therefore leaves out most of reality.) 

Some people with a reputation for blunt honesty are nothing of the sort! - they  wriggle and writhe in the face of the conclusions of their assumptions.

A couple of decades ago I used to admire and defend Richard Dawkins - mainly because I considered he was unsually honest; because he was clear and blunt in expression and unafraid of contradicting people to their faces. But I gradually realised that, on the contrary, he was evasive and expedient in his reasoning.

Dawkins is a good example of one who refused to follow his path of excess to the palace of wisdom; because he was not even aiming at wisdom; he refused to persist in his folly, hence he remained a fool rather than becoming wise.

Two examples. The book Unweaving the Rainbow (1998) was an exercise in distraction, a non sequitur in response to the century-plus of observations that If natural selection were indeed regarded the ultimate truth, Then art, poetry, morality, science (including natural selection) and much else are invalidated.

(This is a fact; because all our feelings, indeed all our knowledge is revealed by the assumption as merely the side effects of adaptations to enhance reproductive success. For example, if natural selection is primary; the theory of natural selection destroys its own validity; all scientific theories being merely side-effects of the process of enhancing differential reproductive fitness.)

Somewhat later (but a couple of years before I was a Christian) I met Dawkins at a dinner party, and asked him - as, I intended, a preliminary to a deeper discussion, why the USA was both by far the leading scientific nation in the world and also by far the most Christianly-religious of the developed nations?

Dawkins's reaction made clear that this paradox had not occurred to him - and he did not have an answer ready.

But instead of noting the apparent contradiction and exploring it as possible evidence of an error in his oft asserted assumption that Christianity was intrinsically and necessarily anti-scientific; Dawkins visibly shook-off the potential discussion with the irrelevant comment that it was not the most Christian people who were the actual scientists. Then having dismissed the matter, he turned and walked away to terminate the discussion - leaving me standing and more-or-less gaping! - which had not gone further than a few sentences. After just a few steps Dawkins looked as if he had already forgotten the whole thing.

Dawkins's folly is to believe that natural selection is the primary reality. I know exactly what this feels like, because I have believed this too. Indeed, I have believed this probably considerably more deeply and comprehensively than Dawkins (reaching its peak in the appendix to my 2003 book The Modernization Imperative).

But I persisted in my folly - and kept coming up against paradoxes and contradictions. My excessive devotion to this particular simplification therefore led me towards the palace of wisdom, because I was honest enough that I would not be satisfied with irrelevant pseudo explanations.

If I have any virtue in a higher than usual degree it probably is exactly this - that I persist in my folly, with honesty, until its falsehood becomes evident and unavoidable; and then I abandon it.

I have, indeed, adhered to most of the starkest follies of modernity over my life; and my life has therefore been a process of adopting then exploring folly before abandoning it. This continues - however, the follies are probably less 'excessive' these days; since after becoming a Christian I perceived the starkest insanities and evils of mainstream modern secularism.

But mainstream modern secularism is foolish in the extreme, and yet at the same time avoids learning from its folly; because it is dishonest.

Modern media/ bureacratic culture is systematically and pervasively dishonest - dishonest in public, dishonest in private, dishonest with itself. (This is sufficient evidence of its demonic origin, since such thoroughgoing and peristing dishonesty must be purposive; and only supernatural purpose could span generations.) No folly of modernity is too extreme to escape the correction of even common sense and direct experience (for example, the current official and coercively-imposed belief that being a man or woman is - in actual practice - a reversible state). 

This is why dishonesty dismays me far more than error. An honest fool will sooner or later become wise - indeed in essentials he already is wise, as such things are measured in mortal life.

By contrast; a dishonest man is a fool; no matter how great his knowledge, skill, status, wealth or power - and as such he is self-damned with a certainty that is as sure as his dishonest persists.

There is no cure for the dishonest soul.

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June 08, 2017, 04:14:17 PM
 #13

Chemistry rose from the teaching of alchemists ..NO NO NO    Put leaves in water and boil Chemistry Grin..

This planet as been at war for nobody knows..
If in war most destroyed all existence of the people they battled with        so to know how smart a culture was in the past is hard to know ..

People been making remedies for how long?..So Chemistry rose from the teaching of alchemists is WRONG..

COOKING was the start of chemistry ..
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June 08, 2017, 04:27:56 PM
 #14

Chemistry rose from the teaching of alchemists ..NO NO NO    Put leaves in water and boil Chemistry Grin..

The road from alchemy to chemistry is a road from foolishness to wisdom. Eventually the foolishness died out and the wisdom persisted. If you are interested some of the history of this transition here is an article on the topic.

The Origins of Today's "Central Science"
Many of the earliest chemists, physicians, and philosophers were also alchemists.

https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/stars-and-elements/other-material3/a/from-alchemy-to-chemistry

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June 09, 2017, 02:11:03 PM
 #15

Are there any?

Any at all?



I'd have to admit... that shirt is quite savage, haha.


Chemistry rose from the teaching of alchemists ..NO NO NO    Put leaves in water and boil Chemistry Grin..

The road from alchemy to chemistry is a road from foolishness to wisdom. Eventually the foolishness died out and the wisdom persisted. If you are interested some of the history of this transition here is an article on the topic.

The Origins of Today's "Central Science"
Many of the earliest chemists, physicians, and philosophers were also alchemists.

https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/stars-and-elements/other-material3/a/from-alchemy-to-chemistry

Seems like it. I remember someone said every science started with philosophy (which at its core is mostly just questioning things) and then moved on to become separate sciences.

The transition from medieval alchemy to the chemistry we have now was a slow transition, with the beginning colored with superstition and goals like turning lead to gold. (Modern scientists found out it is easier to do the reverse Grin )

Many of the discoveries made from trying to reach those goals did add up to our knowledge. For example, Chinese alchemists discovered gunpowder, rather ironically, while looking for the Elixir of Life.
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June 09, 2017, 02:16:45 PM
 #16

A religion is not a real being. Is it not an idea, or a belief? A "Christianity" cannot make a scientific discovery, but a "Christian" sure can. And I'm sure thousands of Christians have made scientific discoveries. Christians do not disregard science, but they do not believe that it is the sole reason or way that the earth was made.

Does this tiny paragraph not invalidate this entire thread ^?
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June 09, 2017, 07:34:48 PM
 #17

A good scientist cannot be a Christian. In order to make a discovery, he must doubt everything created by God according to laws which he cannot refute. You probably meant inventors, not scientists. Scientists are all atheists.

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June 09, 2017, 11:49:44 PM
 #18

Are there any?

Any at all?



Humm this thread will be flooded with religious fanatics... ha ha ha ha

Off topic

Days ago I saw something that made me very curious

I traveled to a province very far from the capital of my country and in this province when I went to the market I saw something that made me very curious

I saw many people buying used clothes... I asked myself the following question:

Where do these clothes come from? Will the clothes donated by the people of the more developed countries be diverted and sold?

And the clothes that are donated to the churches? Where will it go?

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June 10, 2017, 12:52:33 AM
 #19

Isaac Newton was quite religious. Though a bit nutty too Smiley
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June 10, 2017, 12:37:09 PM
 #20

Isaac Newton was quite religious. Though a bit nutty too Smiley

Socially awkard, stuck things in his eyes, died a virgin. I would say it was a horrible way to live but then again, he was wealthy and lived comfortably and despite dying virgin, he managed to fcuk every single one of us with calculus.  Grin
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