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Author Topic: 3 interesting replies found at mtgox website about the rolling back  (Read 5322 times)
elggawf
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June 19, 2011, 11:11:52 PM
 #41

The SPECULATOR (pump and dump) market will heal.

The LEGITIMATE vendor/consumer market will not.

I think the opposite is true, and I think that there's a chance Bitcoin will be better for it.

So long as there is at least some value to a coin and it's not too wishy-washy, I'm sure there will still be vendors out there willing to accept coins for goods and services. I know we're still seriously considering it, but then again our business doesn't live or die by Bitcoin. There doesn't even need to be a way to turn BTC into USD for us to still be interested in it, as long as we can find someone that has something we want who will take our coins. I'm sure there are lots (the die-hard devs included) who will still feel this way.

^_^
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June 20, 2011, 12:43:31 AM
 #42

To all of you who bought bitcoins at about 5 cents and are now pissed coz Mt Gox are doing a rollback I have only one thing to say: Fuck you! You knew something was wrong, you tried to capitalize and thought you got away with it. Don't blame you guys for trying, most of us would have. I blame you for bitching about the rollback, calling it stealing, and claiming to not understand that something was wrong when the other markets traded at around 15$ at the same time.

Except of course, everyone knows what a volotile market BTC is and so it very well could have been a totally legit sell off by an early investor.

Right?

Isn't that how this wonderful free market works?

Well, below 5$ could have been semi-realistic maybe but from 17 to 0.01 in a couple of hours? This is from the bitcoin-extension Bitcoin Ticker:

Trader   High   Low   Buy   Sell
MTGox   $ 18.88   $ 0.01   $ 11.50   $ 12.01
TradeHill   $ 18.00   $ 10.00   $ 13.00   $ 13.50
Bitomat   zł 123.00   zł 1.00   zł 37.01   zł 38.50
BritCoin   £ 11.50   £ 5.00   £ 10.31   £ 10.00

It was at 0.01!!!!. During a fall crazy like that wouldn't you check forums and other markets and realize something is wrong? Even if people didn't understand at the time, which I doubt, they should accept it now.

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June 20, 2011, 12:58:01 AM
 #43

from merely looking at trade data, this event was indistinguishable from one in which a large holder of bitcoins tried to sell his or her holdings. you can't infer bad faith on the part of any buyer of bitcoins (or anyone else) from the data.

there is no way to determine whether someone relying on the data that mt. gox was broadcasting was thinking that it was data mt. gox would intend to reverse. indeed, the natural assumption would be that because mt. gox was broadcasting it, it was 'real' trade data; if that is not true, that is only mt. gox's fault.

as for resale of stolen goods, this varies widely from one legal system to the next. but in almost all legal systems, regardless of the other rules, currency that is innocently exchanged for value is never taken back without a refund of the value. that's why it's called 'currency': because the current holder of it can dispose of it. financial instruments in general are treated differently from consumer goods.

thus, in the united states, if i steal your motorcycle and sell it to an innocent party for $10,000, you can get the motorcycle back from that innocent party; the innocent party will be left with a loss if the thief is insolvent. (this is not true in most european countries, where the rule is the opposite.) however, importantly, even in the united states, if i steal your briefcase with $10,000, buy stock, sell the stock, and then use the proceeds to buy a week's holiday in a posh hotel, the money is unrecoverable either from (1) the stock exchanger, (2) the party who took the dollars in exchange for stock, and (3) the hotel.
EpicFail
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June 20, 2011, 02:18:42 AM
 #44

as for resale of stolen goods, this varies widely from one legal system to the next. but in almost all legal systems, regardless of the other rules, currency that is innocently exchanged for value is never taken back without a refund of the value. that's why it's called 'currency': because the current holder of it can dispose of it. financial instruments in general are treated differently from consumer goods.
A more extreme and simpler analogy ... If I get receive change from a store which later turns out to be stolen currency I shouln't have to give it back.

Further more, it is not clear yet that all sold Bitcoins were stolen. Some people cold have panicked and sold  into the plunge with "legit" coins.
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June 20, 2011, 02:26:31 AM
 #45

The number of coins that actually left MtGox is small and limited, so while those may be lost for good, the vast majority of the big theft are still with them, and reversing their trades will repair most of the damage. Perhapt Mt. Gox will personally compensate the remaining amount from their own wallets?  

I think it's good this is happening while bitcoins is still so new and "fledgling." It's still in Beta. Anyone who didn't expect crazy stuff like this was naive, but the Bitcoin will emerge stronger. Stronger exchanges, stronger passwords, and lots of new information.

The market will heal.

The SPECULATOR (pump and dump) market will heal.

The LEGITIMATE vendor/consumer market will not.

Bitcoin grabbed the spotlight too early if it wasn't ready for prime-time.

Cause it got major fucking prime-time attention, and a whole hell of a lot more is coming next week, bet your bottom bitcoin (which is probably quite worthless at this point) on it.

BTC as anything but an "investors" circle-jerk and criminal paypal is gone, probably for good.  Maybe in another year or two BTC might have a chance at being a legit e-currency, but it's doubtful...

what are you doing to make it better?

I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.

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June 20, 2011, 02:29:51 AM
 #46

The number of coins that actually left MtGox is small and limited, so while those may be lost for good, the vast majority of the big theft are still with them, and reversing their trades will repair most of the damage. Perhapt Mt. Gox will personally compensate the remaining amount from their own wallets?  

I think it's good this is happening while bitcoins is still so new and "fledgling." It's still in Beta. Anyone who didn't expect crazy stuff like this was naive, but the Bitcoin will emerge stronger. Stronger exchanges, stronger passwords, and lots of new information.

The market will heal.

The SPECULATOR (pump and dump) market will heal.

The LEGITIMATE vendor/consumer market will not.

Bitcoin grabbed the spotlight too early if it wasn't ready for prime-time.

Cause it got major fucking prime-time attention, and a whole hell of a lot more is coming next week, bet your bottom bitcoin (which is probably quite worthless at this point) on it.

BTC as anything but an "investors" circle-jerk and criminal paypal is gone, probably for good.  Maybe in another year or two BTC might have a chance at being a legit e-currency, but it's doubtful...

what are you doing to make it better?

Watching you.
airdata
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June 20, 2011, 02:41:18 AM
 #47

Yes... MtGox should have had an in penetrable infrastructure.

Yes... You should not have 500k btc sitting in your account at MtGox.

If you piggy backed off of somebody else's illegal  venture and made money... it's not legit money. 

Think of it like this.  If you're walking down the street and somebody throws a brick through the window of a store and starts stealing stuff.  If you follow suit and steal stuff too, you're still stealing stuff.  If you're not viewing these as ill-gotten gains, you have a skewed point of view.

If you lucked out and got a shit load of btc for $0.01.... lucky you.  You have nothing to worry about regarding roll backs. 

If you bought a shit load of btc for $0.01 and left them sitting in your mtgox account... well shit.. you're probably SOL.

irishmick
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June 20, 2011, 02:55:58 AM
 #48

What I'm wondering is exactly what kind of person has that much btc in their mtgox account. Was it a wealthy day trader, or one of these nefarious individuals rumor says are using bitcoins. If it was the criminal type that hacker may not get to spend much...

Yes I realize this is rather Hollywood-istic but maybe.... ;o)

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