Bitcoin Forum
September 26, 2018, 09:54:07 AM *
News: ♦♦ New info! Bitcoin Core users absolutely must upgrade to previously-announced 0.16.3 [Torrent]. All Bitcoin users should temporarily trust confirmations slightly less. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Help Jaxx wallet unacceptable transaction fee  (Read 7807 times)
andrewballantine
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4
Merit: 0


View Profile
June 10, 2017, 01:48:38 PM
 #1

I am hoping that someone can help me get through to the Jaxx people.

I set up the Jaxx wallet to store bitcoin and Dash. My first experiment was to import some bitcoin from a paper wallet which had been accumulating some mining pool earnings. I input the private key to the Jaxx wallet, but could not understand why so little arrived in the wallet. On investigating I found that 80%, yes 80%, had been given to transaction fee. Now this was not a trivial amount of bitcoin, 0.10151676 BTC (over £200), and all I received was 0.01285896 BTC. At no point was I able to review the transaction fee.

My main problem is that Jaxx support are not replying to my support request.

So I would be most grateful if you can forward this message on to the Jaxx team or whoever you think might be able to help.

If this cannot be rectified, I fear for the success of crypto currencies in general because this behaviour is unacceptable and once the general public hears more stories of this kind, there is every risk that they will loose faith in crypto currencies.

I did not make any mistakes. The Jaxx wallet a) did not make me aware of the transaction fee, b) allowed the software or 3rd party to calculate a ridiculous transaction fee c) appear to have washed their hands of any responsibility for this error.

I have substantially more funds in another paper wallet. I am not currently disposed to commit any of those fund to the Jaxx wallet until this problem is resolved because I fear the same thing will happen again.

Thank you so much for reading this far. If there is anything you can do to help, I would greatly appreciate it.

Kind regards,

Andrew Ballantine
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537955647
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537955647

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537955647
Reply with quote  #2

1537955647
Report to moderator
1537955647
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537955647

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537955647
Reply with quote  #2

1537955647
Report to moderator
Lauda
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988
Merit: 1610


GUNBOT Licenses up to 50% OFF - 'GrumpyKitty'.


View Profile WWW
June 10, 2017, 03:01:36 PM
 #2

On investigating I found that 80%, yes 80%, had been given to transaction fee. Now this was not a trivial amount of bitcoin, 0.10151676 BTC (over £200), and all I received was 0.01285896 BTC. At no point was I able to review the transaction fee.
This is an entirely worthless metric. How much Bitcoin you have is completely irrelevant to the fee that you have to pay. It comes down to the transaction and the recommended fee-rate at the time of execution.

So I would be most grateful if you can forward this message on to the Jaxx team or whoever you think might be able to help.
This forum has nothing to do with Jaxx.

If this cannot be rectified, I fear for the success of crypto currencies in general because this behaviour is unacceptable and once the general public hears more stories of this kind, there is every risk that they will loose faith in crypto currencies.
Cryptocurrencies are definitely going to die because you are uneducated. Roll Eyes

b) allowed the software or 3rd party to calculate a ridiculous transaction fee
It isn't ridiculous until you can prove that it is. Post the address/transaction ID.

c) appear to have washed their hands of any responsibility for this error.
They are not responsible for it.

.FORTUNE.JACK.
      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄████▀▀ ▄ ██████▄
  ████ ▄▄███ ████████
 █████▌▐███▌ ▀▄ ▀█████
███████▄██▀▀▀▀▄████████
█████▀▄▄▄▄█████████████
████▄▄▄▄ █████████████
 ██████▌ ███▀████████
  ███████▄▀▄████████
   ▀█████▀▀███████▀
      ▀▀██████▀▀
         
         █
...FortuneJack.com                                             
...THE BIGGEST BITCOIN GAMBLING SITE
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████████████████████▄
 ▄██
█████████▀███████████▄
██████████▀   ▀██████████
█████████▀       ▀█████████
████████           ████████
████████▄   ▄ ▄   ▄████████
██████████▀   ▀██████████
 ▀██
█████████████████████▀
  ▀██
███████████████████▀
    ▀█████████████████▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
#JACKMATE
WIN 1 BTC
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████▀█████▀██████████
███████▀░░▀░░░░░▀░░▀███████
██████▌░░░░░░░░░░░░░▐██████
██████░░░░██░░░██░░░░██████
█████▌░░░░▀▀░░░▀▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░▄██████
████████▄▄███████▄▄████████

███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████▀
andrewballantine
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4
Merit: 0


View Profile
June 10, 2017, 05:52:00 PM
 #3

Thank you for responding.

The transaction ID is dbf3d5464ac2f320a10e1dfef8239e67e502a2b33f14090f139affecd92823bd

The transaction fee for this transaction is $255. All the talk and promotion of bitcoin talks of low cost transaction fees. $255 is NOT cheap or low cost. Had I had sight of the transaction fee before the transaction went through, I would have cancelled it.

Since the Jaxx support facility is not responding to my request for help, I was hoping that someone on this forum might have some helpful suggestions as to how I might get some restitution for this transaction.

I am beginning to sense than the attitude of the bitcoin community is "Tough". Well I can tell you from long experience of the real world that no one is going to use bitcoin for day to day transactions if there is no control over the transaction fees. People complain about the banks charging 10-15% for international transactions so they are going to be horrified by transaction fees of 80%.

So for the moment it is my opinion that bitcoin is an interesting speculative investment, but completely useless as a reliable and cost effective currency for day to day use. Unless someone can convince me that my transaction was an aberration that should never have happened and the miner who earned the fee return a reasonable amount of the fee to me, I will advise everyone I know not to use bitcoin for day to day transactions.

I would welcome some serious discussion on this because it is fairly critical to the wider acceptance of bitcoin.


fistfullofbtc
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100


View Profile
June 10, 2017, 05:56:59 PM
 #4

btc txs are high yes, that is why other alts are used. usually the fee is displayed, liqiu.io is a bugger for high fees, you just have to check. i use jaxx but there are better cheaper wallets out there, it is a hard lesson.

Lauda
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988
Merit: 1610


GUNBOT Licenses up to 50% OFF - 'GrumpyKitty'.


View Profile WWW
June 10, 2017, 05:59:28 PM
 #5

The transaction fee for this transaction is $255. All the talk and promotion of bitcoin talks of low cost transaction fees. $255 is NOT cheap or low cost. Had I had sight of the transaction fee before the transaction went through, I would have cancelled it.
Your transaction is not normal. Bitcoin is pretty cheap, but not for absurd transactions. The transaction size is: 32530 bytes with a fee-rate of 272.542 satoshi/byte. Your transaction combines a lot very small inputs; is this from a spammy faucet or something?

I am beginning to sense than the attitude of the bitcoin community is "Tough". Well I can tell you from long experience of the real world that no one is going to use bitcoin for day to day transactions if there is no control over the transaction fees. People complain about the banks charging 10-15% for international transactions so they are going to be horrified by transaction fees of 80%.
I have never paid such a transaction fee because I know how to properly use Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not at fault for your lack of knowledge. I highly suggest that you go inform yourself on:
1) What Bitcoin is and what its intrinsic values are.
2) How it works.
3) How the transaction size is calculated.
4) How the recommended fee is determined.

So for the moment it is my opinion that bitcoin is an interesting speculative investment, but completely useless as a reliable and cost effective currency for day to day use.
A worthless opinion is just that, worthless.

Unless someone can convince me that my transaction was an aberration that should never have happened and the miner who earned the fee return a reasonable amount of the fee to me, I will advise everyone I know not to use bitcoin for day to day transactions.
Not going to happen. If you plan on trolling Bitcoin, then you may as well leave this forum right now.

btc txs are high yes, that is why other alts are used. usually the fee is displayed, liqiu.io is a bugger for high fees, you just have to check. i use jaxx but there are better cheaper wallets out there, it is a hard lesson.
The wallet used has nothing to do with the required fee.

.FORTUNE.JACK.
      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄████▀▀ ▄ ██████▄
  ████ ▄▄███ ████████
 █████▌▐███▌ ▀▄ ▀█████
███████▄██▀▀▀▀▄████████
█████▀▄▄▄▄█████████████
████▄▄▄▄ █████████████
 ██████▌ ███▀████████
  ███████▄▀▄████████
   ▀█████▀▀███████▀
      ▀▀██████▀▀
         
         █
...FortuneJack.com                                             
...THE BIGGEST BITCOIN GAMBLING SITE
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████████████████████▄
 ▄██
█████████▀███████████▄
██████████▀   ▀██████████
█████████▀       ▀█████████
████████           ████████
████████▄   ▄ ▄   ▄████████
██████████▀   ▀██████████
 ▀██
█████████████████████▀
  ▀██
███████████████████▀
    ▀█████████████████▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
#JACKMATE
WIN 1 BTC
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████▀█████▀██████████
███████▀░░▀░░░░░▀░░▀███████
██████▌░░░░░░░░░░░░░▐██████
██████░░░░██░░░██░░░░██████
█████▌░░░░▀▀░░░▀▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░▄██████
████████▄▄███████▄▄████████

███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████▀
andrewballantine
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4
Merit: 0


View Profile
June 10, 2017, 07:27:46 PM
 #6

As I stated in my original post "My first experiment was to import some bitcoin from a paper wallet which had been accumulating some mining pool earnings". Genesis mining as it happens not " is this from a spammy faucet or something?"

So what is the best way to accumulate earnings from a mining pool that will be a lot of small inputs?

Lauda
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988
Merit: 1610


GUNBOT Licenses up to 50% OFF - 'GrumpyKitty'.


View Profile WWW
June 10, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
 #7

As I stated in my original post "My first experiment was to import some bitcoin from a paper wallet which had been accumulating some mining pool earnings". Genesis mining as it happens not " is this from a spammy faucet or something?"
Transactions sub $1 are very spammy, regardless of the origin.

So what is the best way to accumulate earnings from a mining pool that will be a lot of small inputs?
Withdraw your earnings once they reach a couple hundred $100 and not every $1.

.FORTUNE.JACK.
      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄████▀▀ ▄ ██████▄
  ████ ▄▄███ ████████
 █████▌▐███▌ ▀▄ ▀█████
███████▄██▀▀▀▀▄████████
█████▀▄▄▄▄█████████████
████▄▄▄▄ █████████████
 ██████▌ ███▀████████
  ███████▄▀▄████████
   ▀█████▀▀███████▀
      ▀▀██████▀▀
         
         █
...FortuneJack.com                                             
...THE BIGGEST BITCOIN GAMBLING SITE
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████████████████████▄
 ▄██
█████████▀███████████▄
██████████▀   ▀██████████
█████████▀       ▀█████████
████████           ████████
████████▄   ▄ ▄   ▄████████
██████████▀   ▀██████████
 ▀██
█████████████████████▀
  ▀██
███████████████████▀
    ▀█████████████████▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
#JACKMATE
WIN 1 BTC
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████▀█████▀██████████
███████▀░░▀░░░░░▀░░▀███████
██████▌░░░░░░░░░░░░░▐██████
██████░░░░██░░░██░░░░██████
█████▌░░░░▀▀░░░▀▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░▄██████
████████▄▄███████▄▄████████

███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████▀
fistfullofbtc
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210
Merit: 100


View Profile
June 10, 2017, 08:29:48 PM
 #8

 
[/quote]
Withdraw your earnings once they reach a couple hundred $100 and not every $1.
[/quote]

isn't that what he did?

Lauda
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988
Merit: 1610


GUNBOT Licenses up to 50% OFF - 'GrumpyKitty'.


View Profile WWW
June 10, 2017, 08:33:19 PM
 #9

isn't that what he did?
No. He has combined a high number of of <$1 payments (and one ~$28 payment) from address A into address B with a singular transaction. The media transaction fee tends to fluctuate above $1, thus using inputs under $1 is nonsensical.

.FORTUNE.JACK.
      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄████▀▀ ▄ ██████▄
  ████ ▄▄███ ████████
 █████▌▐███▌ ▀▄ ▀█████
███████▄██▀▀▀▀▄████████
█████▀▄▄▄▄█████████████
████▄▄▄▄ █████████████
 ██████▌ ███▀████████
  ███████▄▀▄████████
   ▀█████▀▀███████▀
      ▀▀██████▀▀
         
         █
...FortuneJack.com                                             
...THE BIGGEST BITCOIN GAMBLING SITE
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████████████████████▄
 ▄██
█████████▀███████████▄
██████████▀   ▀██████████
█████████▀       ▀█████████
████████           ████████
████████▄   ▄ ▄   ▄████████
██████████▀   ▀██████████
 ▀██
█████████████████████▀
  ▀██
███████████████████▀
    ▀█████████████████▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
#JACKMATE
WIN 1 BTC
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████▀█████▀██████████
███████▀░░▀░░░░░▀░░▀███████
██████▌░░░░░░░░░░░░░▐██████
██████░░░░██░░░██░░░░██████
█████▌░░░░▀▀░░░▀▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░▄██████
████████▄▄███████▄▄████████

███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████▀
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 925

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
June 11, 2017, 10:21:17 AM
 #10

32,530 bytes... in a "1,000,000 byte" block is asking to use ~3% of the available space in a block for 1 transaction... at a time when there were some 50K to 60K unconfirmed transactions in the mempool and "recommended" fees were 200+ sats/byte...

Using software that doesn't give you any real choice when it comes to setting fees... or apparently even show you the fees...

At the end of the day, Bitcoin can be unforgiving for those who do not educate themselves about how it all works. Sadly, a very expensive lesson learned.

andrewballantine
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4
Merit: 0


View Profile
June 11, 2017, 12:02:24 PM
 #11

HCP,

Thank you for response, at least you are sympathetic which helps.

So, how does one consolidate an address that has accumulated a large number small transactions. Apart from the mining example I can think of a number of ways this might happen and the promoters of bitcoin claim it is suitable for micro payments.

For bitcoin to achieve mainstream adoption these sort of "hard lessons" are not going to be acceptable by the general public.

Too many hard lessons will bring about attempts at regulation by the powers that be, which I do not think the Bitcoin community would want.

Please do not get me wrong, I am all for Bitcoin; it is a great technology, but it needs some control. Self regulation will be far preferable to formal regulation. So in a mainstream scenario the user needs to be warned of expensive transactions and given advise on how to avoid incurring such expensive transactions.

Just think how your grandparent would react to my expensive lesson in the use of Bitcoin.

I would welcome further discussion of these points.

Thank you for listening.
Lauda
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988
Merit: 1610


GUNBOT Licenses up to 50% OFF - 'GrumpyKitty'.


View Profile WWW
June 11, 2017, 01:31:33 PM
 #12

Thank you for response, at least you are sympathetic which helps.
Sympathy does not help anyone.

So, how does one consolidate an address that has accumulated a large number small transactions.
Firstly, avoid having to do that in the first place. Sub $1 payments are ridiculous and a waste of storage-spec and your own money. The only way to do this is by using a wallet that allows you to specify your own fee rate (e.g. Bitcoin Core) and then either:
1) Transact on a day with very low congestion (e.g. today).
2) Try including it via some mining pool, e.g. ViaBTC.
3) Or both. Today you could likely get away with a 30satoshis/byte fee-rate. With this fee-rate, your transaction would have costed 0.00975900 BTC (~$28) instead of 0.0886578 BTC (~$250).

Apart from the mining example I can think of a number of ways this might happen and the promoters of bitcoin claim it is suitable for micro payments.
Correction:"Uninformed promoters". Bitcoin is not suitable for micro-payments. It used to be, but currently is not.

For bitcoin to achieve mainstream adoption these sort of "hard lessons" are not going to be acceptable by the general public.
Absolute bullshit. People do not want to read anything about Bitcoin nor learn how it actually works nor how to use it. You briefly read something and then just jump into it. This is why people will face these "hard lessons". If you had informed yourself upfront, you could have avoided it.

Too many hard lessons will bring about attempts at regulation by the powers that be, which I do not think the Bitcoin community would want.
Nope.

So in a mainstream scenario the user needs to be warned of expensive transactions and given advise on how to avoid incurring such expensive transactions.
Warned? By who? There is no centralized entity that can/has/will warn you of anything. Each and every wallet provider can code up their wallet in any way that they want. If Jaxx wanted to, they could add mandatory 0.1 BTC fee for any transaction (obviously absurd; would not be used by anyone but not the point).

Just think how your grandparent would react to my expensive lesson in the use of Bitcoin.
I would tell them the same thing that I told you: "It's your own fault. Educate yourself before using Bitcoin.". Being your own bank both has responsibilities and risks.

.FORTUNE.JACK.
      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄████▀▀ ▄ ██████▄
  ████ ▄▄███ ████████
 █████▌▐███▌ ▀▄ ▀█████
███████▄██▀▀▀▀▄████████
█████▀▄▄▄▄█████████████
████▄▄▄▄ █████████████
 ██████▌ ███▀████████
  ███████▄▀▄████████
   ▀█████▀▀███████▀
      ▀▀██████▀▀
         
         █
...FortuneJack.com                                             
...THE BIGGEST BITCOIN GAMBLING SITE
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████████████████████▄
 ▄██
█████████▀███████████▄
██████████▀   ▀██████████
█████████▀       ▀█████████
████████           ████████
████████▄   ▄ ▄   ▄████████
██████████▀   ▀██████████
 ▀██
█████████████████████▀
  ▀██
███████████████████▀
    ▀█████████████████▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
#JACKMATE
WIN 1 BTC
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████▀█████▀██████████
███████▀░░▀░░░░░▀░░▀███████
██████▌░░░░░░░░░░░░░▐██████
██████░░░░██░░░██░░░░██████
█████▌░░░░▀▀░░░▀▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░▄██████
████████▄▄███████▄▄████████

███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████▀
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 925

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
June 12, 2017, 09:44:13 AM
 #13

Yeah, I think you may have misunderstood my comment... maybe because I wasn't quite as blunt as Lauda Wink

As for "warning and advising" newcomers to Bitcoin, there is plenty of freely available information that does both of these things. This isn't kindergarten... We're all adults here with the ability to read and learn. If you want to play, you need to learn the rules of the game.

Unfortunately, too many people in the world today expect everything to be given to them on a plate with very little effort on their behalf... All they see are the sensational headlines, % increase in worth and pretty charts showing the BTC/USD value shooting to the moon and want to jump aboard the BitcoinGravyTrain without taking the time to learn what it is they are actually getting into.

These types are also generally very quick to point the "Big Finger of Blame"™ at everyone but themselves when they mess something up because they didn't take the time to actually learn how things work before diving in head first.

Quote
Being your own bank has both responsibilities and risks.
#preach

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!