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Author Topic: Proposal Support  (Read 2988 times)
DooMAD
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June 16, 2017, 03:51:51 PM
Last edit: July 09, 2017, 09:30:59 AM by DooMAD
 #1

As the debate rages on, it seems like some people are beginning to make assumptions about which proposals people actually do and don't support.  For example, all "bigblockers" have to apparently support BU, which isn't necessarily the case.  So if anyone would like to go on record and explicitly declare their support for the various proposals, you've come to the right thread.

For clarity:

BIP141:  This is Core's proposed softfork for Segregated Witness, commonly referred to as "SegWit".  The reasoning for this proposal is outlined with both benefits and costs.

BIP148:  This is a User Activated Softfork for SegWit, commonly referred to as "UASF".  The reasoning for this proposal is  outlined here.

BIP149:  This is a User Activated Softfork for SegWit with an "activation on timeout".  The reasoning for this proposal is outlined here.

SegWit2x / New York Agreement:  This is a SegWit hardfork with the addition of a 2MB blocksize, commonly referred to as "SegWit2x".  The reasoning for this proposal is outlined here and here.

Extension Blocks:  This is a proposal to create an opt-in second layer for an on-chain capacity increase.  The reasoning for this proposal is outlined here and here

Segwit Adaptive:  This is a proposal to allow dynamic resizing of blocks based on network traffic.  Based on BIP106.  The reasoning for this proposal is outlined here.

Emergent Consensus:  This is a proposal for miners and nodes to dynamically declare the size of blocks they are willing to accept.  The reasoning for this proposal is outlined here.

Bitmaincoin:  This is an altcoin proposed by Bitmain and included as a joke of sorts.



"Prefer" = Preferred proposal regardless of apparent support
"Acceptable" = A solid or workable solution
"Deficient" = Okay with the idea, but appears to be lacking wide support
"Weak" = Better than nothing
"No" = Self explanatory
"Undecided" / "No Opinion" / "DGAF" / etc = Self Explanatory



BIP141 SegWit | BIP148 UASF | BIP149 Timeout | SegWit2x / New York Agreement | Extension Blocks | SegWit Adaptive | Emergent Consensus | Bitmaincoin
DooMADAcceptableNoWeakAcceptableDeficientPreferNoFuck No
iCEBREAKERAcceptableOhHellYesAcceptableGetRektM8AcceptableDeficientROFLMAOPIMP"Pick up the gun."
franky1WeakNoNoBetter than nothinWeakAcceptablePreferNo
theymosPreferDeficientPreferNo*No†NoNoNo
LaudaPreferAcceptableAcceptableAcceptableDeficientDeficientLOLForkYourMotherIfYouWantFork
d5000PreferNoAcceptableAcceptablePreferPreferAs an AltcoinNo
jonald_fyookballNo#UASF! do itNoNoWeakNoPreferBitcoin. FTFY
PaasHaasPreferAcceptableAcceptableAcceptableDeficientWeakNOHell NO
azguardPreferAcceptableNoPreferDeficientDeficientNoNo
sgbettNoNoNoWeak.DeficientNoBitcoin.Also Bitcoin.
FoxpupPreferDeficientAcceptableNoNoNoROFLOMGWTFBBQ
forevernoobPreferAcceptableAcceptableNoUndecidedNoNoNo
mindrustPrefer#UASFYaawn...noundecidedundecidedLOL!LOL!
ibminerPreferNoNoNO!DeficientWeakNO!NO!
SpartacusRexPreferAcceptableAcceptableAcceptableLOLLOLLOLForkYourMotherIfYouWantFork
hv_NotSNNotSNNotSNCompromisbeFreeNoBitcoinSN_Bitcoin
quake313PreferAcceptableAcceptableAcceptablenoNoNONO WAY
mainpmfPreferAcceptableNODON'TDOTHATAcceptablenoNoNONO WAY
VariogamDeficientNoNoPreferAcceptableDeficientDeficientNo
frodocooperAcceptableNoWeakNoNoPreferNoNo
FiendCoinPreferAcceptableAcceptableAcceptable with Core SupportNoNoNEVER BUHell to the muthafucking naw!
OstAcceptableAcceptableUndecidedAcceptableUndecidedPreferNoHell No



If anyone wants me to add them to the list, please post in the following format (preferably still in the code tags):

Code:
[tr]
[td]Name[/td]
[td]BIP141 opinion[/td]
[td]BIP148 opinion[/td]
[td]BIP149 opinion[/td]
[td]SegWit2x opinion[/td]
[td]Extension Blocks opinion[/td]
[td]SegWit Adaptive/BIP106 opinion[/td]
[td]BU/EC opinion[/td]
[td]Bitmaincoin opinion[/td]
[/tr]

(Optional) Colours are:

Code:
[glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow]
[glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow]
[glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow]
[glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow]
[glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow]
Undecided / No Opinion / DGAF / etc leave uncoloured

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Ost
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June 16, 2017, 04:49:28 PM
 #2

Code:
[tr]
[td]Ost[/td]
[td][glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]Hell No[/glow][/td]
[/tr]

I'm not sure about some of these though, since I don't know a lot about all of them. Maybe there should be something like a "No opinion" option?
DooMAD
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June 16, 2017, 05:32:44 PM
 #3

I'm not sure about some of these though, since I don't know a lot about all of them. Maybe there should be something like a "No opinion" option?

You can certainly put "Undecided" or "No Opinion" and leave those uncoloured if you like.  Just don't delete any lines because it messes up the table formatting.  Smiley

Did you want to edit your submission before inclusion?

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June 16, 2017, 05:51:24 PM
 #4

I'm not sure about some of these though, since I don't know a lot about all of them. Maybe there should be something like a "No opinion" option?

You can certainly put "Undecided" or "No Opinion" and leave those uncoloured if you like.  Just don't delete any lines because it messes up the table formatting.  Smiley

Did you want to edit your submission before inclusion?

Code:
[tr]
[td]Ost[/td]
[td][glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td]Undecided[/td]
[td][glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td]Undecided[/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]Hell No[/glow][/td]
[/tr]

Here you go!
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June 16, 2017, 06:40:38 PM
Last edit: June 17, 2017, 10:14:24 AM by iCEBREAKER
 #5

BIP141   BIP148   BIP149   SegWit2x   Extension Blocks   SegWit Adaptive/BIP106   BU/EC   Bitmaincoin  
iCEBREAKERAcceptableOhHellYesAcceptableGetRektM8AcceptableDeficientROFLMAOPIMP"Pick up the gun."

Code:
[tr]
[td]iCEBREAKER[/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]OhHellYes[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]GetRektM8[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]ROFLMAOPIMP[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]"Pick up the gun."[/glow][/td]
[/tr]


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June 16, 2017, 06:49:06 PM
 #6

Code:
[tr]
[td]forevernoob[/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=green,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]Undecided[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=red,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[/tr]


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June 16, 2017, 06:50:43 PM
Last edit: June 16, 2017, 07:55:40 PM by mindrust
 #7

BIP141   BIP148   BIP149   SegWit2x   Extension Blocks   SegWit Adaptive/BIP106   BU/EC   Bitmaincoin  
mindrustPrefer   #UASFYaawn...no   undecidedundecidedLOL!LOL!

█▀▀█
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BESTMIXER.IO // BEST BITCOIN MIXER
█▀▀█
██▄█
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June 16, 2017, 06:59:54 PM
Last edit: June 16, 2017, 07:52:22 PM by franky1
 #8

franky1         WeakWeakWeakWeakWeakWeakWeakWeak

Code:
[tr]
[td]franky1         [/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[/tr]

they are all missing things.
segwit148149 segwit2x  are all 2merkle which is cludgy code, also doesnt limit txsigops of legacy tx's very well or uses cludgy maths to do it

the dynamic bips have issues too
like 106 for instance has crap bip of going down as well as up, which can cause blocks made before going down (thus being more then new limit) potentially getting orphaned out.. there should be no need to drop a consensus limit as that causes issues for the chain.. pools can simply do a policy blocksize drop instead

segwit+size increases still rely on developer spoon feeding/promises after X. which is still empty promises/delays


its as if devs want to promote the worse versions there are, as ways to keep the dev's in control/ or to make the devs remain relevant by always having issues for the devs to be needed to then fix later

any bip that actually gives nodes full control to not rely on dev endless requirement ends up being tossed aside


concepts i prefer
dynamics - takes the dv spoonfeeding/2year debate out of the way because NODES control size (yep i said nodes not pools)
but with other things aswell such as
1 merkle block where all keypairs sit side by side in same area

all the stuff people want new keypairs, weak/thin blocks

nodes request a UTXO set first to run in lite mode while it syncs so that people can see unspents and make tx's meaning they are not waiting a week before even being able to do anything

other things like
proper limiting sigops and bloat per tx

add a new fee priority mechanism that penalises people that spend more then once a day and reward those that dont, (yep there are ways to do it)

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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June 16, 2017, 08:08:51 PM
 #9

theymosPreferDeficientPreferNo*No†NoNoNo

Code:
[tr]
[td]theymos[/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No*[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No†[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[/tr]

* Despite the straightforward-sounding name, the meaning of "SegWit2x" is very unclear. There are like a dozen totally different proposals going by that name, most of them very bad, a few like COOP less bad. I can imagine a "SegWit + 2MB-hardfork" proposal that I would instead rate as Deficient.

† I am completely opposed to that extblocks proposal, but the idea of extension blocks is OK. SegWit basically is an extension block proposal, after all.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
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June 16, 2017, 08:44:01 PM
 #10

BIP141   BIP148   BIP149   SegWit2x   Extension Blocks   SegWit Adaptive/BIP106   BU/EC   Bitmaincoin  
LaudaPreferAcceptableAcceptableAcceptable]DeficientDeficientLOLForkYourMotherIfYouWantFork
Code:
[tr]
[td]Lauda[/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]LOL[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]ForkYourMotherIfYouWantFork[/glow][/td]
[/tr]

If my modifications to the last two are not acceptable, just replace with "No".

* Despite the straightforward-sounding name, the meaning of "SegWit2x" is very unclear. There are like a dozen totally different proposals going by that name, most of them very bad, a few like COOP less bad. I can imagine a "SegWit + 2MB-hardfork" proposal that I would instead rate as Deficient.
They are finally aiming to make it compatible with existing Segwit deployment and even BIP 148. In that variant, I'd find it acceptable even though I don't agree with the rushed hard fork in 6 months. If they do not do it, in the way that I've just specified then my vote would be 'No'.

OP, I suggest putting in some time to make the formatting/styling of the OP better.

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June 16, 2017, 09:21:10 PM
 #11

Where is Bip 91? It is now compatible with Bip 148, is being chosen by miners as we speak and may very well give us Segwit prior to August 1st.  Maybe it is classified here as Segwit2X (not the deployment method, but okay) ?
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June 16, 2017, 09:23:28 PM
 #12

Where is Bip 91? It is now compatible with Bip 148, is being chosen by miners as we speak and may very well give us Segwit prior to August 1st.
BIP 91 seems to have been incorporated into the Segwit2x proposal. Therefore it should not be listed separately.

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June 16, 2017, 09:24:31 PM
 #13

Yeah, thanks. I edited my message to late.  Cheesy
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June 17, 2017, 12:07:15 AM
 #14

BIP141    BIP148    BIP149    SegWit2x    Extension Blocks    SegWit Adaptive/BIP106    BU/EC    Bitmaincoin   
frodocooper   Acceptable   NoWeakNo   NoPreferNoNo



Code:
[tr]
[td]frodocooper   [/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow]   [/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=cyan,2,100]Weak[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow]   [/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[/tr]
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June 17, 2017, 12:14:30 AM
Last edit: June 17, 2017, 08:48:55 AM by Variogam
 #15

BIP141    BIP148    BIP149    SegWit2x    Extension Blocks    SegWit Adaptive/BIP106    BU/EC    Bitmaincoin   
VariogamDeficientNoNoPreferAcceptableDeficientDeficientNo


Code:
[tr]
[td]Variogam[/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]Deficient[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[/tr]
FiendCoin
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June 17, 2017, 02:46:05 AM
 #16


BIP141    BIP148    BIP149    SegWit2x    Extension Blocks    SegWit Adaptive/BIP106    BU/EC    Bitmaincoin   
FiendCoin   Prefer   Acceptable Acceptable Acceptable with Core Support   NoNoNEVER BUHell to the muthafucking naw!



Code:
[tr]
[td]FiendCoin   [/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow]   [/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow] [/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow] [/td]
[td][glow=#FFA500,2,300]Acceptable with Core Support[/glow]   [/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]NEVER BU[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]Hell to the muthafucking naw![/glow][/td]
[/tr]

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June 17, 2017, 05:00:06 AM
 #17

Nice initiative.

BIP141   BIP148   BIP149   SegWit2x   Extension Blocks   SegWit Adaptive/BIP106   BU/EC   Bitmaincoin  
d5000PreferNoAcceptableAcceptablePreferPreferAs an
Altcoin
No

From the three "preferred" variants (these are those I consider "good", not just "acceptable"), I rank them the following way:
1) Extension blocks (the concept, not a particular initiative)
2) Segwit-Adaptive/BIP-106
3) "traditional" Segwit BIP-141

Code:
[tr]
[td]d5000[/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/td]
[td][glow=yellow,2,300]As an[br]Altcoin[/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/td]
[/tr]



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June 17, 2017, 11:25:18 AM
 #18

Checkpoint.  Keep 'em coming.  Currently it's loosely ordered by membership rank and the order in which you posted.  Hope that's okay with everyone.  I'm definitely too lazy to alphabetise or do anything overtly OCD with it.  Looks like there are already some trends emerging in what we generally do and don't approve of.


OP, I suggest putting in some time to make the formatting/styling of the OP better.

Yeah, could do with some tweaking.  I did throw it together rather hastily, heh.  Can't do a great deal with the table itself since, as far as I'm aware at least, there's no option for borders in SMF's BBCode unless you mod it.  But the rest of the post cold be arranged a bit better.  Might also try to add more of a summary for each proposal.


add a new fee priority mechanism that penalises people that spend more then once a day and reward those that dont, (yep there are ways to do it)

I'd like to include that in the proposal for SegWit Adaptive, but if you can't get behind it (or any of the other proposals) because of your views on the "1 merkle block where all keypairs sit side by side in same area" part, you're just going to isolate yourself.  You have to recognise the main trend in this thread so far, which is that everyone else who has posted has, in some form or another, expressed support for SegWit.  I don't mean to be blunt, but, regardless of your feelings towards it, there's too much momentum behind the idea for you to obstruct it.  With the possible exception of extreme ossification and stagnation where this debate never ends, the only outcome moving forward is one that includes SegWit.  Either accept that, or find yourself moving (of your own volition) to the fringes where your voice won't be heard.  

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June 17, 2017, 11:41:03 AM
 #19

but if you can't get behind it (or any of the other proposals) because of your views on the "1 merkle block where all keypairs sit side by side in same area" part, you're just going to isolate yourself.  You have to recognise the main trend in this thread so far, which is that everyone else who has posted has, in some form or another, expressed support for SegWit.  I don't mean to be blunt, but, regardless of your feelings towards it, there's too much momentum behind the idea for you to obstruct it.  With the possible exception of extreme ossification and stagnation where this debate never ends, the only outcome moving forward is one that includes SegWit.  Either accept that, or find yourself moving (of your own volition) to the fringes where your voice won't be heard.  

you do realise that segwit can actually be done in a 1 merkle block..
ill leave you to think about that and have a lightbulb(epiphany) moment.


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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
quake313
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June 17, 2017, 06:18:56 PM
 #20

BIP141    BIP148    BIP149    SegWit2x    Extension Blocks    SegWit Adaptive/BIP106    BU/EC    Bitmaincoin   
quake313PreferAcceptableAcceptableAcceptablenoNoNONO WAY

Code:
[tr]
[td]quake313[/td]
[td][glow=#00FF66,2,300]Prefer[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,100]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#00BB44,2,300]Acceptable[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]no[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]No[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]NO[/glow][/td]
[td][glow=#FF4444,2,300]NO WAY[/glow][/td]
[/tr]

Great idea btw DooMAD.
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