(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[seleme]

I have another dumb question...

Am I right to say that this bot is designed to mainly rise our fiat value, not btc one. I've just went through several settings and all three exchanges, run tests and then calculated onmy own and in last month during this rally I would be good in fiat but down in btc in any of tests.

For example, the pic below... if I'd started with 10 000$ and bought at 200.475 I would buy 49.88 BTC. But last trade on the pic would be buy at $42675 AT $938 and I would get only 45.5 BTC.

This is a month test period where we had 400$ (45%) correction so I really don't understand how would I finish with 9% less bitcoins. And I would buy most of the times higher than I would sold in trade earlier.

I want to make more btc with this, not USD, is this something usual or one kind of.

Btw, what does the value column represents?

[1713992532]

1713992532

[1713992532]

1713992532

[1713992532]

1713992532

[1713992532]

1713992532

[seleme]

btw, I've just made first profit trade of some 0.1 BTC with this, and even don't wanting to do it, lol.

I use Firefox usually and opened Chrome to check something while BBot was set as trading enabled and since we were already in EMA selling zone it immediately sold 17 of my BTC that wasn't locked in orders on BTC-e. I rebought 6$ lower few minutes later though I could do it for another 10$ lower minutes later so far.

[NginUS]

btw, I've just made first profit trade of some 0.1 BTC with this, and even don't wanting to do it, lol.

I use Firefox usually and opened Chrome to check something while BBot was set as trading enabled and since we were already in EMA selling zone it immediately sold 17 of my BTC that wasn't locked in orders on BTC-e. I rebought 6$ lower few minutes later though I could do it for another 10$ lower minutes later so far.

You can create a new user profile in Chrome to prevent that kind of surprise again. So you have a Chrome with the bot installed to it & another without.

[PuertoLibre]

You know, with MTGOX recently lowering the fee structure to 0% for four days, you'd think it would be very easy money.

But no matter what settings I try on Butter Bot, I can't seem to be making a positive return...

[rizzeren]

http://s26.postimg.org/dr92fym8l/18150.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/6k7dk3bbp/settings.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/p11sawr9x/thresholds.jpg

Here are the mails I recieved.

7:31 today:
EMA diff is at -0.214% (1 BTC = 910 USD) at btce.

A sell order is imminent!

Your friendly trading bot.

7:46 today:
EMA diff is at -0.354% (1 BTC = 912.711 USD) at btce.

A sell order was triggered!

Your friendly trading bot.

Since my sell thresholds are:
Sell threshold 1: 0.062
Sell threshold 2: 0.095

I belive the bot should have sold at 6:01 at the price of $981.40 since both threshold 1 and 2 had been met at the time:/ Instead it sold me out at $910. Also those emails I get.. I cannot find those EMA differences in the list.. -0.214 and -0.354 is not in the list as you can see.

[rizzeren]

Even the backtesting feature seem to think that it should have sold at $955.

18150.62% total return in one year according to backtesting - however it's not the reality. Sold me out at $910 this morning.

[rizzeren]

I notice that the EMA differences change historically.

Look:
http://s26.postimg.org/howc5d91x/comparison.jpg

I have not changed settings but the EMA settings change for the times.

[vesperwillow]

Haven't caught up on all of this thread, but I logged into my trading server to see how things went during the pop today. On BTCE I made 50% profit, and on GOX I made 10% profit.

Color me happy lol. It offset some of the small losses on Friday.

Figures are in BTC, not fiat, fwiw.

[wasubii]

Haven't caught up on all of this thread, but I logged into my trading server to see how things went during the pop today. On BTCE I made 50% profit, and on GOX I made 10% profit.

Color me happy lol. It offset some of the small losses on Friday.

Figures are in BTC, not fiat, fwiw.

Care to share your settings?

I can't find any settings that result in a BTC profit in the last 2 months….

[luicon]

there is no magical setting, bot can just win bitcoins in long, steady and strong downs due the way EMA indicator triggers a sell/buy.
but bitcoins drops are "strong down" and "strong up" in a matter of hours,
over all, it make you lose bitcoins betting and lossing while trying to catch those trends that almost never happend.

its constantly cutting off loses selling low/buying high due the fact that expected scenarios are not happening,

[Aleksio]

i used a short time frame so it dont take 300 minuts to checkhow many fails there are on 200 trades over 2 years.

i don't expect to have 0 fails, i expect it to try get profit if there was a down trend, and it don't.
if not, then cut loses buying back is what should be done,


its better than buy and hold? well... due the way it trades, responsability relays into how big market drops are.

you start with 100$  at 122,888 = 0.813 BTC
you end up with 0.900 btc


i guess you are right, you won 0.087 btc in two months,


if you buy and hold, at the end of those two month you wil have 0.813 btc to buy at 722.367  = 587,284371$
if you use the bot you have 0.9 btc to buy at 722.367 = 650,1303$
 

587$ to 650$ = 10% win

now those are real numbers.
quite far from the "593.21%" the bot says due the way its calculating the profit (price rises)

bot should show % win based on how many btcs it won, and not in the price rise of bitcoin, as it return the fake feel that thnks to the bot
you won "593%"

in 12 trades, 10 are loses and 2 are win, thanks to those two wins, bot was able to recovery the loses,
but if there was no nice scenario were price drop enough to get a big enough win that recover the loses, then it would keep eating your bitcoins slowly,

a strategy to win something at each drop is the key to make this bot a real winner and not a wasteful of bitcoins software.

sure you can check the setup i put for the test, is the one that return 13 000% "profit" in one year,
https://i.imgur.com/9KfsOTy.png

Good afternoon friends how you think this strategy it is applicable for earnings? Maybe you know what which is better?

[vesperwillow]

I'll log in later and look at which settings it was using at the time.

Part of the issue is, you can't backtest simply based on a custom time period (bitcoinwisdom will kindof let you do this). So you may not be able to view the profitability for a week just by plugging them in. I told Pablo a month ago he needs to implement this ability, so you can examine swings without having to wait a week to use the 'last week' backtest.

One of the reasons they don't use a custom timeframe is that this bot is a long-term bot--but it would be helpful to specify custom timeframes anyhow, to learn from swings.

I use bitcoinwisdom and some of my own excel spreadsheets to figure out settings I like.

I do remember they were pretty sharp settings though, I believe I had one of the triggers set to 3.8 or even higher, to catch actual dives and ignore the HFT noise.

[Grover]

Here are the mails I recieved.

7:31 today:
EMA diff is at -0.214% (1 BTC = 910 USD) at btce.

A sell order is imminent!

Your friendly trading bot.

7:46 today:
EMA diff is at -0.354% (1 BTC = 912.711 USD) at btce.

A sell order was triggered!

Your friendly trading bot.

Since my sell thresholds are:
Sell threshold 1: 0.062
Sell threshold 2: 0.095

I belive the bot should have sold at 6:01 at the price of $981.40 since both threshold 1 and 2 had been met at the time:/ Instead it sold me out at $910. Also those emails I get.. I cannot find those EMA differences in the list.. -0.214 and -0.354 is not in the list as you can see.

Hi,

I'm just chiming in with my $0.02usd worth. I haven't used this bot.

One thing I notice in many posts regarding BTC-e functionality, of this or any bot, is trades not executing or being delayed etc...

I think a lot of these issues are due to the fact BTC-e does not have a sell at market feature like MtGOX. This means for your trade to execute there has to be a corresponding buy/sell order on BTC-e at the time your order is placed for your order to be immediately placed.

example.

Bot tries to sell 1btc at $900.00
highest open order on BTC-e is a buy for 899.99 and market is downtrending.

This would mean your sell gets stuck on the sell order side at $900.00 until the market comes back up to $900.00 and there is at least 1.0btc worth of action at that price for your entire order to fill.


I've messed around with BTC-e for a while and only use it for trading LTC.


Also,

Don't forget these exchanges are not governed by any oversight body that checks the code or functionality of the exchange for any kind of compliance against any kind of standard.  The exchanges are mainly outside the USA and the owners are in it for profit.  And not just the small transaction fee profits, actual big $ profit.

Basically for all you/me/we know the exchange has it's own bot running trades and this bot is given information well before it is broadcast to other bots or the GUI on the exchange, fractions of a second is all it takes.

So just my $0.02usd.


[ADDED]

When doing back testing don't forget that in back tests the EMA lines are fixed.  The market is not active so there are not the times when the EMA lines are very fluid during indecision times.

[shapemaker]

Basically for all you/me/we know the exchange has it's own bot running trades and this bot is given information well before it is broadcast to other bots or the GUI on the exchange, fractions of a second is all it takes.

Heh, you basically described how the big stock exchanges work with the large(st) brokerage houses (clients) that do HFT. Someone would call that "an unfair advantage"... but still it is legal. Go figure.

[Grover]

Basically for all you/me/we know the exchange has it's own bot running trades and this bot is given information well before it is broadcast to other bots or the GUI on the exchange, fractions of a second is all it takes.

Heh, you basically described how the big stock exchanges work with the large(st) brokerage houses (clients) that do HFT. Someone would call that "an unfair advantage"... but still it is legal. Go figure.

Yeap on Wall Street there are the people who pay thousands a month to rack their servers right next to the exchanges.  My understanding is the law in this case sees it as the information is broadcast outside the exchange at the same time and the laws of nature or communication are what dictate that servers a few yards get the information faster than servers hundreds of miles.

IF you want to make money on the street track what congressmen and their staffers do who are involved in any legislation that affects the market.  They go trade during the meeting or right after which is generally hours to days-weeks before anyone else knows what the committee has voted on.

But with these crypto exchanges who knows what's going on behind the scenes?  Damn with Gox you used to be able to place fake orders on your own,they didn't change that until last April or May.  One could list the same BTC for sale numerous times, and conversely place all kinds of buy orders to create the illusion of a massive wall.

Though this bot looks interesting.

[Badonkadonk]

hey guys, just wanna check if my bot is behaving correctly.
i set up the api key on btc-e and started it off with 300 usd.

it started off with buying 0.344 btc. leaving me with 3.4 usd.
after that i got 2 emails about buy triggers.
but it hasnt done anything at all since that first buy. (been about 24 hours)

i set it up with some settings i found in this thread to try them out.

short ema 20 / long ema 42

tick offset 13

30 min trade frequency

buy threshold 1 | x | buy threshold 2 | 0.05 |
sell threshold 1 | x | sell threshold 2  | 0.09 |

edit:
and btw, get your free month here https://butter-bot.com/?r=5f17bb32

[PuertoLibre]

@ Pablo

First, are you okay? You've been pretty silent for quite some time.

Second, do you have any idea how many samples your bot takes when building the first EMA value?

According to the math here:

http://stockcharts.com/help/doku.php?id=chart_school:technical_indicators:moving_averages

To build an EMA function, the first value has to be an SMA value. I know the number of periods the EMA functions sample after the first. I just don't know how many samples are used in butter-bot for the first SMA value. My numbers come close but not quite on the money.

======================

As an aside, does the backtesting feature take into account the available volume at the time the trade occurs or does it just assume the buy and sell would have been made reguardless of the size of the order?

I ask because while programming a B-bot backtesting feature I came to realize that buying or selling 1 BTC is not the same as 100 BTC at each trade. Eventually you would not meet enough supply/demand to fulfill an order despite the EMA's threshold values being crossed.

Which might mean the backtesting feature is "blindly assuming" any value can be sold or bought at a specific time frame regardless or true demand/supply at that given moment. Which has obvious implications on the accuracy of backtesting and/or the validity of results.

Anything you can help me with casually is much appreciated!

[fible1]

@ Pablo

First, are you okay? You've been pretty silent for quite some time.

Second, do you have any idea how many samples your bot takes when building the first EMA value?

According to the math here:

http://stockcharts.com/help/doku.php?id=chart_school:technical_indicators:moving_averages

To build an EMA function, the first value has to be an SMA value. I know the number of periods the EMA functions sample after the first. I just don't know how many samples are used in butter-bot for the first SMA value. My numbers come close but not quite on the money.

======================

As an aside, does the backtesting feature take into account the available volume at the time the trade occurs or does it just assume the buy and sell would have been made reguardless of the size of the order?

I ask because while programming a B-bot backtesting feature I came to realize that buying or selling 1 BTC is not the same as 100 BTC at each trade. Eventually you would not meet enough supply/demand to fulfill an order despite the EMA's threshold values being crossed.

Which might mean the backtesting feature is "blindly assuming" any value can be sold or bought at a specific time frame regardless or true demand/supply at that given moment. Which has obvious implications on the accuracy of backtesting and/or the validity of results.

Anything you can help me with casually is much appreciated!

Hi PuertoLibre ,
  Yes, I'm fine, thank you for asking . I have been absent because the Butter-Bot email support workload has about tripled over the last three months and I find myself spending most of my time there.

If anyone needs me, or there is a pressing matter on the thread (although I check it periodically) please email Pablo@Butter-Bot.com and I will sign on post haste and help out with whatever I can .

To answer your question, Butter-Bot uses over 160 EMA samples, I think its 166 but don't quote me on that. If you need an exact number let me know and I will get this from the developer.

As far as I am aware back testing assumes the trade can be executed by default; it strikes me that you would need to be trading in the hundreds of thousands of USD in today's market for that to actually make a difference, but I'm open to being proven wrong here .

As always, whatever you guys need, Im always here .

Pablo.

[fible1]

*************
Notice:
*************

If anyone needs me, or there is a pressing matter on the thread (although I check it periodically) please email Pablo@Butter-Bot.com and I will sign on post haste and help out with whatever I can .

Pablo.

[papaminer]

I think it is time to hire a support team...