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Question: Ethereum is in a speculative bubble, bitcoin is not.
True - 48 (77.4%)
False - 14 (22.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: True or false: Ethereum is a bubble, bitcoin is not  (Read 2829 times)
Denker
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June 25, 2017, 07:41:07 AM
 #21

All the altcoins are in a MASSIVE bubble!
This includes Vitalium a well of course!Totally overvalued and I see it going below $100 easily!!
Bitcoin was growing parabolic in some phases but always has seen bigger corrections.Imo Bitcoin was not/is not really in a bubble so far.
This however does not mean that the actual price will hold. A look at the weekly chart and some indicators show us, that a dump to $1300 could be possible. We've never tested this area as a support level after the breakout. So a huge pullback could definitely happen.
And if it holds, we would still be in a bullish trend!

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June 25, 2017, 08:02:06 AM
 #22

when prices go up based on real demand you can not really consider that rise a bubble. for bitcoin this demand has been mostly real from new investors with fresh money that came in based on all the new changes in the world such as legalization/regulation of bitcoin in Japan, then the green light from Russia and the proposal of removal of taxes on bitcoin in Australia, the new regulation in China, ... all these people came in and they are real demand that will keep the price up.
that also means the value of bitcoin goes higher so those mentioning intrinsic value of bitcoin should consider the new level caused by new demand.

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June 25, 2017, 12:04:06 PM
 #23

ETH price is currently being sustained and pushed upwards by all the ICOs that are accepting it for contributions.

Now wait until all these ICO will need to cash some of their ETH holdings to pay for things... Yes they could pay in ETH or hodl for a while too so not saying it will happen all at once.


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June 25, 2017, 12:18:14 PM
 #24

   I was reading some articles today which pointed towards such a conclusion, just curious what others think about this notion.

What is your conclusion then? Mind sharing it.

Both are in bubble but the comparison is how thick their bubble is. ETH bubble is thin and just experienced only few negative news while on progress. Bitcoin on the other hand surpass all negative events that comes to it and there are still many problems in the future but surely it can keep up. As a result, it makes it's bubble so much thick and will be much thicker in the future once main issue on it will be fixed or given a light solution.

    I studied the global financial system so I fully understand bitcoins potential, and I also understand its utilities for a number of purposes.

   I read that a mutual fund manager got in early on ethereum, and anyone who can wield that kind of capital could probably engineer a pump and dump of this magnitude.

   My hunch is a lot of the ICOs are going to be unable to perform, and investors are going to get impatient, there will probably be a series of scams, and people are going to start realizing that they acted on emotion and put huge amounts of money into projects they didn't understand and start thinking "What if I got scammed too?"

   This will cause people to start dumping even legitimate tokens, which may cause a rush- ICO development will realize that if the value of their ETH is hit hard enough, they will not be able to afford to complete their project, and if this happens it will lead to some projects being cancelled which will just add to the general panic in a vicious cycle.

Hundreds of millions if not billions of ETH are tied up in ICOs, decreasing supply in a period of frantic demand, and this ether is going to start bleeding back on to the market, putting further pressure on the price  

    I have listened to Vitalik Butemin's talks, and I keep starting threads asking for explanation, but I can never quite dispel the feeling that the potential of Ethereum is a bit like the emperor's new clothes. Really, I'm fairly educated and patient, but I simply can't see advantages which justify this price growth. Really, this seems to be at least 90% pure speculation, and I don't believe ethereum has nearly the proportion of 'true believers' or 'strong hands' that Bitcoin does.

   I am really trying to keep an open mind, and I would be happy to be proven wrong- personally I want to see the success of crypto in general, I am not particularly attached to any coin,  but really I see a perfect $%*& storm brewing here.


      Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. These ICO's represent numerous side chains on the ETH blockchain, right? Has anyone ever tried running dozens of massive side chains on any blockchain? Talk about scaling issues, doesn't this mean the amount of data required to run the blockchain will be increasing dramatically?

   Every single ETH project I read about sounds marginally useful, at best. I am 110,000% open to being proven wrong, but I've been around the stock market and small businesses most of my life and studied economics, and I realy believe I know a viable business model when I see one.

    Bitcoin in itself is a deathblow in terms of disruption to remissions, gold bugs, inflationary currencies, capital controls, drug dealers, and other black marketeers, and will continue to be preferred for ransomware attacks due to relative ease of acquisition and infrastructure in place. As almost all Ethereum supporters point out, ETH is not meant to challenge any of these roles of bitcoin, but all of these aspects of bitcoin make it clear to me how literally trillions of dollars could pour into bitcoin, but I don't underdstand why this would happen with ETH.

   I really feel the sentiment driving ETHs price growth is the feeling that "I missed the boat" with bitcoin and here comes the next bitcoin. The reality, though, is that bitcoin is just getting started, and a lot of what is stopping people from buying BTC is that they are still thinking in BTC rather than Satoshis. I mean, people think, "I can't even afford one bitcoin" instead of "I can afford a quarter million Satoshis!"

     This, coupled with the fact that smart contract functionality really seems to sound like the most convincing property that could "improve" on bitcoins blockchain, and the endless speculation that bitcoin surely won't be the crypto, is leading to an absolutely greed driven run up. And with greed comes fear.

     I never feared for the potential of bitcoin, and there is no price at which I would have panic sold. I simply can't say the same for Ethereum, but as I said, I am still waiting for a single case use example that can really show me that the long term potential is a fraction that of bitcoin.


    Honestly, when I read a story about Ethereum being used by the UN to distribute aid to Syrian refugees, it really got me wondering. This, coupled with the big money behind Butemin, and the fact that the supply of ether is not fixed, really makes me wonder if Ethereum is not the global elite's response to bitcoin, although this goes down the conspiracy road.

     The ethereum craze seems to me to be the culmination of the shift of media attention from bitcoin to blockchain. This shift seemed to be somewhat coordinated, and at the same time numerous central banks started experimenting with blockchain.

    I believe firmly that bitcoin is a threat to the present financial elite, and I also know they are not going to take this lying down.

     A fixed quantity currency won't work, because the MO of central banks is to steal value by dilluting the value of the currency, and controlling the issuance of the currency is the only way to do this. The rising difficulty with bitcoin makes such an assault nearly impossible, but this would not be the case with proof of stake, to which ETH is currently transitioning. ETH has a gimmick in the form of smart contracts that could allow it to take over market dominance from bitcoin, and still have all the benefits of bitcoin, while being tweaked just a little in order to set it so the current elite can quietly control and manipulate it far more effectively than bitcoin, thereby making sure not too much more power slips from their grasp.

     I mean really, lets say I belong to a family thay controls a big part of global finance, and possibly influences the governance of most of the central banks of the world. I learn then that a deflationary, decentralized currency has been invented that is starting to eat market share from my currencies. (And yes, providing currency is a service- just one that we have taken for granted is monopolized).

      Upon researching, I would realize the blockchain has real utility and can provide efficiency gains. So I would instruct all of the banks under my control to implement the block chain tech independently to claim the efficiency gains without causing bitcoin to capture any more of my market share.

    As bitcoin continued growing, I would have to find a way to make sure it stays a fringe movement, and at the same time create a currency that offered people whatever it is they like about bitcoin, but that I can influence and dillute.

     Sorry, I don't know how a comment on whether or not ETH is in a bubble turned into a conspiracy rant. It really wouldn't be this way if someone could just please give me a rock solid example of a revolutionary and highly disruptive ETH use case that could compare even remotely to the potential of bitcoins disruption of the financial sector.

Check out my innovative blockchain+killer app project at http://ummati.io --- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2137399.0
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June 25, 2017, 12:26:31 PM
 #25

I was reading some articles today which pointed towards such a conclusion, just curious what others think about this notion.

Can you share links to these articles please?

Both are in a bubble. Ethereum is in a much bigger bubble.

What's your rationale for the bubble? Just saying so doesn't do much to make the rest of us understand or believe you.

the ethereum bubble is so obviously a bubble i can't believe everyone hasn't already cut and run.
Why? How? What's the obvious symptoms of bubble that you're seeing? Or more importantly, why do you think Ethereum isn't worthy of it's current value?



A lot of people don't understand what Ethereum is offering. Ether isn't a monetary currency, it's a processing power currency. Anyone comparing Ethereum to Bitcoin as two different versions of the same type of currency doesn't understand what Ethereum is.

Read their website, it's really informative: https://www.ethereum.org/



http://www.coindesk.com/analyzing-ether-bitcoin-investors-skeptical-take/

http://hackingdistributed.com/2017/06/19/bancor-is-flawed/

Check out my innovative blockchain+killer app project at http://ummati.io --- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2137399.0
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June 25, 2017, 12:53:30 PM
 #26

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN19D200

   For example, civic- an ID verification service that uses its own token to... verify ID's.

   PLEASE can anyone explain to me why this can only work with ether, why a company would want to buy Civic's special token for ID verification, and have to manage seperate accounts or wallet? What am I missing?

     I guess I just have to keep saying it louder until somebody comes and walks me through it with baby steps

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June 25, 2017, 01:46:19 PM
 #27

Why? How? What's the obvious symptoms of bubble that you're seeing? Or more importantly, why do you think Ethereum isn't worthy of it's current value?

over 40x increase in a handful of months. icos that no one understands selling out in seconds. r/ethtrader filled with thousands of posts a day about buying lambos.

does any of that smell like business as usual?


It smells like it is time to get out and lock the profits. News has it that deposits and withdrawals of some ICO tokens were disabled by the exchanges because Ethereum's backlog is getting too large.

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June 25, 2017, 03:04:29 PM
 #28

Both are in a bubble. Ethereum is in a much bigger bubble.
The bigger the bubble the sooner it will burst, just any day now. While for bitcoin I think we are used to the bubble blowing and bursting, people who invested a lot in ETH might get surprised.
There is second law of bubbles as well: the longer the bubble last the longer it will take to burst.
Why I meant is that I consider fiat money to be a bubble too. Considering that in the past every global currency reserve has fallen:

We just have to wait a bit more to see USD collapse as well.
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June 25, 2017, 03:37:18 PM
 #29

Why? How? What's the obvious symptoms of bubble that you're seeing? Or more importantly, why do you think Ethereum isn't worthy of it's current value?

over 40x increase in a handful of months. icos that no one understands selling out in seconds. r/ethtrader filled with thousands of posts a day about buying lambos.

does any of that smell like business as usual?


It smells like it is time to get out and lock the profits. News has it that deposits and withdrawals of some ICO tokens were disabled by the exchanges because Ethereum's backlog is getting too large.

not the ICos but the ethereum itself. they have disabled all the deposits and withdrawals of ETH because ethereum blockchain apparently has so many problems right now and transaction delays are getting very long.

and you will never hear the failures of ethereum on the main board, you just keep hearing the words flippening and big market cap! and all the while price of ether is dropping hard!

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June 25, 2017, 04:27:31 PM
 #30

BTC might still be in a bubble and can still crash to around 1000$ in my opinion, however long term I think it will go higher than now, so if you can suffer the crash, it's worth it.

ETH, I'm much less confident and wouldn't put any serious money into it. The hard fork has scarred me (and I wasn't affected as I didn't own any).

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June 25, 2017, 07:56:02 PM
 #31

All the altcoins are in a MASSIVE bubble!
This includes Vitalium a well of course!Totally overvalued and I see it going below $100 easily!!
Bitcoin was growing parabolic in some phases but always has seen bigger corrections.Imo Bitcoin was not/is not really in a bubble so far.
This however does not mean that the actual price will hold. A look at the weekly chart and some indicators show us, that a dump to $1300 could be possible. We've never tested this area as a support level after the breakout. So a huge pullback could definitely happen.
And if it holds, we would still be in a bullish trend!
So are you shorting right now?
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June 25, 2017, 08:59:51 PM
 #32

I am really shocked to see 85% voted for "YES". I think both are pretty possible to be a bubble. This voting diesn't mean a thing to me actually, cause of I know that the most people on the forum are just here for making money and they don't get in the poin with the head.
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June 25, 2017, 09:25:55 PM
 #33

BTC heading for a healthy correction down to 1500$, I sold at 2700$ a couple of days ago and already placed buy orders above 1500$. ETH on the other hand is done for this year. not all alts will take a beating though. legitimate innovation such as Byteball still has a lot of growth potential

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June 25, 2017, 10:10:56 PM
 #34

Ethereum seems to be crashing hard now. Vitalik is losing it on twitter lately with some strange tweets. Also, it is said that the flash crash that happened the other day, was a massive selloff that came from the genesis block, so it could have been Vitalik or one of the close friends that were at the beginning of the genesis block that got the insane amount of 72 million ETH... what a mess.

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June 25, 2017, 10:27:16 PM
 #35

Ethereum seems to be crashing hard now. Vitalik is losing it on twitter lately with some strange tweets. Also, it is said that the flash crash that happened the other day, was a massive selloff that came from the genesis block, so it could have been Vitalik or one of the close friends that were at the beginning of the genesis block that got the insane amount of 72 million ETH... what a mess.

Ethereum was a bubble and it was said from long on but no one listened , the developer developed the coin and left it. when recently their was a dump everyone realized it and now crying about ethereum being scam coin. Vitalik have itself declared that what ever he has made profits will diversify to fiat currency and real world economy and not in crypto currency as he itself dont have faith on crytpcurrency.














 

 

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June 26, 2017, 06:08:45 AM
 #36

ETH is not a bubble but an extensive and heavily backed pump, Bitcoin was in a bubble but as people started to see how useful it could be for storing

The value and specially international transfers and a large group of new comers from the middle levels of society simply because of a few countries

Announced officially about adopting Bitcoin the bubble has turned into a sphere with solid floors, Did you know if people stop panic selling the price

Could never fall? what makes it to drop if you tell me? if all the coin holders and owners never sell lower $2800 do you think price will reach there?

I believe so. where are the mining farms of ETH? mostly people are solo mining it in their homes and basements or garages unlike Bitcoin with

Transparent miners, ETH miners are faceless individuals and there are no faces to blame when something goes wrong like how we're blaming Wu

And others for high fees.

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June 26, 2017, 06:13:15 AM
 #37

   I was reading some articles today which pointed towards such a conclusion, just curious what others think about this notion.

What I would say is that bitcoin is less of a bubble than ethereum is.

Ethereum has risen 5-6x in bitcoin terms when bitcoin has risen 6x at least itself in the past few weeks. So this indicates that ethereum has basically shot up from the $10-20 range to all the way up to 400+.

The question is, how can ETH not be a bubble? It was less than 10 billion of breaking bitcoin's market capitilaziton when it was having network congestion issues due to a few ICOs. If the network is so fragile, then what will happen during mass adoption of EThereum?

Bitcoin on the other hand even though has scaling problems, has a much wider community. The price right now is high, but not unjustified. After all, Japan, Australia, and now INdia are all legalizing BTC. That accounts for at least 1/5 of the world population already that legalizes bitcoin.














 

 

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Herbert2020
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June 26, 2017, 06:41:56 AM
 #38

BTC heading for a healthy correction down to 1500$, I sold at 2700$ a couple of days ago and already placed buy orders above 1500$. ETH on the other hand is done for this year. not all alts will take a beating though. legitimate innovation such as Byteball still has a lot of growth potential

why $1500?
i have also sold around $2700 and some at $2900 but i don't get why some people say prices below $2000. so far the $2K showed a very good resistance under normal circumstances and these big round numbers are known to form a nice physiological resistances whether it is breaking $2000 to go down or breaking $3000 to go up.

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Hyena
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June 26, 2017, 06:53:06 AM
 #39

BTC heading for a healthy correction down to 1500$, I sold at 2700$ a couple of days ago and already placed buy orders above 1500$. ETH on the other hand is done for this year. not all alts will take a beating though. legitimate innovation such as Byteball still has a lot of growth potential

why $1500?
i have also sold around $2700 and some at $2900 but i don't get why some people say prices below $2000. so far the $2K showed a very good resistance under normal circumstances and these big round numbers are known to form a nice physiological resistances whether it is breaking $2000 to go down or breaking $3000 to go up.

Last resistance becomes the next support. we haven't had a proper consolidation since 1000-1500 range. I admit buy order at 1500 seems kind of far fetched but we must consider panic sellers. it might just touch 1500 for a couple of minutes. If we hover at 1800$ for a week or so I will just buy in of course. but since we haven't even touched 2k yet holding a buy order at 1500 is better than having no buy order at all. you never know (fat fingers for example) Wink

gokayc
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June 26, 2017, 07:00:37 AM
 #40

I am really shocked to see 85% voted for "YES". I think both are pretty possible to be a bubble. This voting diesn't mean a thing to me actually, cause of I know that the most people on the forum are just here for making money and they don't get in the poin with the head.


Doesn't matter how many percent of people say yes or no. The real point is the sum of the people who voted is only 37. So this is really small amount for  considering anything.

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