Profitability

[dandreark1]

I've only been back into mining for about a month or so.
Got in late after litecoin, too.
Stopped mining when it was no longer "profitable", in 2014 or so, and sold off my rigs.
Still managed to double/triple my original investment over time, and only doubled because I was stupid enough to stop following markets, (losing lots of shitcoins due to delistings, when I could have sold them for small fortunes - bad so much eac and xsi 😪).
I basically had given up.
So here's what I think after the last BTC rally.
I am ignoring current profitability and ROI calcs.
What I care about is how much hardware I can have up and running to accumulate cryptos I either genuinely believe in or that I believe will pump eventually.
I am basing my profit projections on how much my BTC will be worth when one BTC will cost 10, 20, 30, 100k, years and years from now. Block chain and cryptos are here to stay, and they will grow into a monster. We haven't seen anything yet.
This is a marathon, not a sprint.
At this stage It's far too speculative to invest in unless you stand to lose the money you put into your hardware.
But if you wait long enough, you will make money.
every now and then another crypto will pop up that will even show you day to day gains, Like ltc once did, like eth and others are showing now, but as far as I see it, that's only good because it lets me buy more equipment and set aside for power costs when times get rough.

ANd until the next rally, I will be buying all of the equipment being dumped by the shaky newbs (like I did last time!)

You couldn't of said it any better my friend, only thing i'm not entirely positive on is the longevity of BTC. How promising it will be in the future with how applicable Ethereum is and what it'll be able to achieve. BTC is a huge driving force no doubt, you think BTC will increase in value at this point? Or even stay relevant?..

Although what I think is only worth what you paid for it, I will say that as long as I feel that the value of other cryptos will rest on the value of BTC, then that's where I will hedge most of my gains.
I think that the real gains will come with higher adoption rates, when BTC and/or whenever other cryptos stop being seen as commodities and start serving as the currency BTC was designed to be.
And all technical issues aside, I think that BTC is definitely the crypto with the most exposure to the masses, which is why I feel it has a fairly solid future.

I got you, in my opinion I really don't think BTC price and ETH have a super strong correlation like other crypto's..

Once they unveiled what they have planned for eth and etc and the whole ecosystem as a whole, moved right pasts the steps BTC was trying to make since 2014. I just really think ETH will pass BTC up based on applicability.. but thats just an opinion.

Personally I hope btc stays up there cause zec rides it's coat tail. Good info though thanks for sharing

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[Monayman]

I've only been back into mining for about a month or so.
Got in late after litecoin, too.
Stopped mining when it was no longer "profitable", in 2014 or so, and sold off my rigs.
Still managed to double/triple my original investment over time, and only doubled because I was stupid enough to stop following markets, (losing lots of shitcoins due to delistings, when I could have sold them for small fortunes - bad so much eac and xsi 😪).
I basically had given up.
So here's what I think after the last BTC rally.
I am ignoring current profitability and ROI calcs.
What I care about is how much hardware I can have up and running to accumulate cryptos I either genuinely believe in or that I believe will pump eventually.
I am basing my profit projections on how much my BTC will be worth when one BTC will cost 10, 20, 30, 100k, years and years from now. Block chain and cryptos are here to stay, and they will grow into a monster. We haven't seen anything yet.
This is a marathon, not a sprint.
At this stage It's far too speculative to invest in unless you stand to lose the money you put into your hardware.
But if you wait long enough, you will make money.
every now and then another crypto will pop up that will even show you day to day gains, Like ltc once did, like eth and others are showing now, but as far as I see it, that's only good because it lets me buy more equipment and set aside for power costs when times get rough.

ANd until the next rally, I will be buying all of the equipment being dumped by the shaky newbs (like I did last time!)

Haha I love it, nothing ventured, nothing gained

Lol, this is definitely the "high risk" portion of my investment portfolio!

[tomfullery]

I've been watching crypto markets for a good 5 years now and made the bulk of my investment within this past year and just recently got my first (and last) rig up and running.

My opinion is that the whole thing is just a continuous pump and dump. Its no different than a ponzi scheme where you require a greater fool to buy at a higher price from you. you have new dumb money getting sold on $5k-$100k bitcoin prices from hype and idiot memes, spending their paychecks on coinbase market buys as well as pure gambling on shitcoins while whales cash out to from these greater fools in predictable intervals. That's like the only pattern there is. It's just been exacerbated as of recently due to btc soft fork FUD and ETH ICOs cashing out the moment fundraising is over...they dont give a sh#t and the price tanking reflects that.

We should be really worried how all crypto coins are tied to btc price and how there's really no way to evaluate the worth of these coins via fundamental analysis.

I'll be bagholding for a good year i predict.

[adaseb]

Mining at the end of 2013 was a little better because they were less GPUs.

I remember at the beginning of the year in Jan-Feb, a R9 280X made like $10/day, then in March it was $7.50, then in April like $5.00, then in May like $2.50, then throughout the summer around $1-2/day, and finally ending the year at $0.25/day.

This is based on the fact that you sold everyday for fiat since BTC also kept going down.

But what's happening in 2017 is crazy nuts. To have profitability literally drop by half in 5 days or so...

[Tmdz]

Mining at the end of 2013 was a little better because they were less GPUs.

I remember at the beginning of the year in Jan-Feb, a R9 280X made like $10/day, then in March it was $7.50, then in April like $5.00, then in May like $2.50, then throughout the summer around $1-2/day, and finally ending the year at $0.25/day.

This is based on the fact that you sold everyday for fiat since BTC also kept going down.

But what's happening in 2017 is crazy nuts. To have profitability literally drop by half in 5 days or so...

The big thing is how the price of Eth is tanking plus the difficulty.

A few days ago I got really worried Eth was going to tank with block times going up, plus ico's cashing out so I moved my mined eth into btc and litecoin 70% and 30% split (eth was $330 then).  Litecoin wasn't that good of a move but btc isn't too horrible, still better off than Eth, loses are at about 10% vs eth 20%+ I would of had.

When the blocks time jump again the summer sale could get even worse, Eth can barely handle the transactions and that creates panic.  But the fork will happen eventually last summerish, at that time things could really turn around.

[Cereberus]

Many people will try to sell their GPU-s as they will think there is no more profit to be made right now with actual price of the cryptos, especially ethereum. I am personally hoping that many people leaving the home mining scene should result in a falling down of the difficulty and more profit for people who will have patience and keep mining at home and waiting for better days.

[Valgard19]

Many people will try to sell their GPU-s as they will think there is no more profit to be made right now with actual price of the cryptos, especially ethereum. I am personally hoping that many people leaving the home mining scene should result in a falling down of the difficulty and more profit for people who will have patience and keep mining at home and waiting for better days.

okay but any way with the rx 5xx if you check the epoch switch. Hashrate go down every 10 epoch so quickly. maybe better will be sell the cards if still people want them and wait for next gen ?
I do not want to give up. But I also can not afford a smaller profit than energy consumption. $0,17

[dragonmike]

You know, nVidia speed is not dropping after every epoch, which leads me to think AMD might be able to fix that on driver level.

[Valgard19]

You know, nVidia speed is not dropping after every epoch, which leads me to think AMD might be able to fix that on driver level.

i hope so  it will come soon because the profit $1 on card is not so scary for me just the lower hashrate make me sick

[f5alcon]

You know, nVidia speed is not dropping after every epoch, which leads me to think AMD might be able to fix that on driver level.

i hope so  it will come soon because the profit $1 on card is not so scary for me just the lower hashrate make me sick

just mine a different coin, it is just the dag file of eth that is causing the lower hashrate, so other coins won't have a drop

[Monayman]

I've been watching crypto markets for a good 5 years now and made the bulk of my investment within this past year and just recently got my first (and last) rig up and running.

My opinion is that the whole thing is just a continuous pump and dump. Its no different than a ponzi scheme where you require a greater fool to buy at a higher price from you. you have new dumb money getting sold on $5k-$100k bitcoin prices from hype and idiot memes, spending their paychecks on coinbase market buys as well as pure gambling on shitcoins while whales cash out to from these greater fools in predictable intervals. That's like the only pattern there is. It's just been exacerbated as of recently due to btc soft fork FUD and ETH ICOs cashing out the moment fundraising is over...they dont give a sh#t and the price tanking reflects that.

We should be really worried how all crypto coins are tied to btc price and how there's really no way to evaluate the worth of these coins via fundamental analysis.

I'll be bagholding for a good year i predict.

I do agree that the entire crypto world is very susceptible to pumps and dumps.
But in my humble opinion, that is a only a symptom of the low market value of the entire crypto market now - it is simply too cheap not to manipulate.
If you have been following the markets for that long, then I think you'll have noticed that the volatility of cryptos, while still insane when compared to high cap stocks, is far lower than it used to be ...

That makes it both extremely interesting and extremely risky to "invest" in. It is in fact more of a gamble than anything at this point to put any money anywhere near anything that has to do with crypto.

What makes me so bullish about the future value of BTC (or other cryptos), is that we have only begun scratching the surface of what the tech could be used for - from supplying underbanked masses with a means to store funds electronically, through (more useful nowadays) being used as a means to move around obscene amounts of money without requiring banks... If you wanted to move millions of dollars from one country to the next a few years ago, you'd have to stash your luggage with cash and hope that customs won't take a peek ... now it could be stored in a memorized private key, in the form of a currency that is liquid enough to convert to insane amounts of fiat in no time flat in most places in the world.

As to the possibility of "losing" money vs fiat value in BTC, due to volatility, I actually think the risk is manageable over short periods of time.
Ask Canadians how much buying power they lost over the last two years because of the insane decline of the Canadian dollar, or many Europeans got screwed because they pulled out loans in Swiss francs ... or how much was lost by people holding British pounds in the last year!

I do get that BTC is a very fringe-ey tech, but its uses and potential are very, very real.
Can it tank and become worthless? Sure.
But I just don't see that happening.
So bag holding is the way to go. And not even for a year - hold it until that shit can secure your retirement, or busts entirely.
That's my game. And if I lose everything I've ever put into it? Bah, it's money I never had anyways

[antantti]

I've been watching crypto markets for a good 5 years now

I'll be bagholding for a good year i predict.

Agree with all you said.

Why did you, after five years, fall into a trap?

[Tmdz]

I've been watching crypto markets for a good 5 years now and made the bulk of my investment within this past year and just recently got my first (and last) rig up and running.

My opinion is that the whole thing is just a continuous pump and dump. Its no different than a ponzi scheme where you require a greater fool to buy at a higher price from you. you have new dumb money getting sold on $5k-$100k bitcoin prices from hype and idiot memes, spending their paychecks on coinbase market buys as well as pure gambling on shitcoins while whales cash out to from these greater fools in predictable intervals. That's like the only pattern there is. It's just been exacerbated as of recently due to btc soft fork FUD and ETH ICOs cashing out the moment fundraising is over...they dont give a sh#t and the price tanking reflects that.

We should be really worried how all crypto coins are tied to btc price and how there's really no way to evaluate the worth of these coins via fundamental analysis.

I'll be bagholding for a good year i predict.

I do agree that the entire crypto world is very susceptible to pumps and dumps.
But in my humble opinion, that is a only a symptom of the low market value of the entire crypto market now - it is simply too cheap not to manipulate.
If you have been following the markets for that long, then I think you'll have noticed that the volatility of cryptos, while still insane when compared to high cap stocks, is far lower than it used to be ...

That makes it both extremely interesting and extremely risky to "invest" in. It is in fact more of a gamble than anything at this point to put any money anywhere near anything that has to do with crypto.

What makes me so bullish about the future value of BTC (or other cryptos), is that we have only begun scratching the surface of what the tech could be used for - from supplying underbanked masses with a means to store funds electronically, through (more useful nowadays) being used as a means to move around obscene amounts of money without requiring banks... If you wanted to move millions of dollars from one country to the next a few years ago, you'd have to stash your luggage with cash and hope that customs won't take a peek ... now it could be stored in a memorized private key, in the form of a currency that is liquid enough to convert to insane amounts of fiat in no time flat in most places in the world.

As to the possibility of "losing" money vs fiat value in BTC, due to volatility, I actually think the risk is manageable over short periods of time.
Ask Canadians how much buying power they lost over the last two years because of the insane decline of the Canadian dollar, or many Europeans got screwed because they pulled out loans in Swiss francs ... or how much was lost by people holding British pounds in the last year!

I do get that BTC is a very fringe-ey tech, but its uses and potential are very, very real.
Can it tank and become worthless? Sure.
But I just don't see that happening.
So bag holding is the way to go. And not even for a year - hold it until that shit can secure your retirement, or busts entirely.
That's my game. And if I lose everything I've ever put into it? Bah, it's money I never had anyways

+1

Bitcoin is a solid holding, it is finally getting a scaling improvement.  Long term it will be BIG, I mean 10 years down the line 2 or 3 btc will fund your retirement.  Some other coins are good to be in as well, just any solid crypto portfolio.

Now look at Berkshire Hathaway

Opened in 1991 with about 1.6 million shares and market cap of ~11 billion for a stock price of $7100
Lets say you didn't buy in until 1995 4 year later which put it around btc current cap of ~30 billion @ $20'000 a share and you buy a single share.
Tons of volatility from 1995 to 2017 with big declines where lots of people bailed, but you hold.

Your $20'000 invest is worth $251'000 and growing.
That means the market cap doubled 13.7 times
You made $230'000

Now How many times can bitcoin or other solid coins double in price over ~10-20 years?
It did this year, how about next year and future halvings?

Exponential growth is some crazy shit.

----------

Edit I forgot about inflation.

The starting $20'000 would only be $32,500 by todays numbers.

[Marvell1]

mined an uncle on eth pool today so got 5 eth plus 3.7 its quite profitable still if you get lucky solo mining, I usuall get an uncle a week , just gotta stick with it

[Bothebu]

I think everyone is overestimating resale value.

Majority of current price is driven by miners who are looking to jump in the craze.  However, what do you think will happen once this becomes unprofitable again? 

Market will be flooded with people trying to sell their equipment about 3-5 months from now. 

EXACTLY!  Could not agree more...

[Marvell1]

I've been watching crypto markets for a good 5 years now and made the bulk of my investment within this past year and just recently got my first (and last) rig up and running.

My opinion is that the whole thing is just a continuous pump and dump. Its no different than a ponzi scheme where you require a greater fool to buy at a higher price from you. you have new dumb money getting sold on $5k-$100k bitcoin prices from hype and idiot memes, spending their paychecks on coinbase market buys as well as pure gambling on shitcoins while whales cash out to from these greater fools in predictable intervals. That's like the only pattern there is. It's just been exacerbated as of recently due to btc soft fork FUD and ETH ICOs cashing out the moment fundraising is over...they dont give a sh#t and the price tanking reflects that.

We should be really worried how all crypto coins are tied to btc price and how there's really no way to evaluate the worth of these coins via fundamental analysis.

I'll be bagholding for a good year i predict.

I do agree that the entire crypto world is very susceptible to pumps and dumps.
But in my humble opinion, that is a only a symptom of the low market value of the entire crypto market now - it is simply too cheap not to manipulate.
If you have been following the markets for that long, then I think you'll have noticed that the volatility of cryptos, while still insane when compared to high cap stocks, is far lower than it used to be ...

That makes it both extremely interesting and extremely risky to "invest" in. It is in fact more of a gamble than anything at this point to put any money anywhere near anything that has to do with crypto.

What makes me so bullish about the future value of BTC (or other cryptos), is that we have only begun scratching the surface of what the tech could be used for - from supplying underbanked masses with a means to store funds electronically, through (more useful nowadays) being used as a means to move around obscene amounts of money without requiring banks... If you wanted to move millions of dollars from one country to the next a few years ago, you'd have to stash your luggage with cash and hope that customs won't take a peek ... now it could be stored in a memorized private key, in the form of a currency that is liquid enough to convert to insane amounts of fiat in no time flat in most places in the world.

As to the possibility of "losing" money vs fiat value in BTC, due to volatility, I actually think the risk is manageable over short periods of time.
Ask Canadians how much buying power they lost over the last two years because of the insane decline of the Canadian dollar, or many Europeans got screwed because they pulled out loans in Swiss francs ... or how much was lost by people holding British pounds in the last year!

I do get that BTC is a very fringe-ey tech, but its uses and potential are very, very real.
Can it tank and become worthless? Sure.
But I just don't see that happening.
So bag holding is the way to go. And not even for a year - hold it until that shit can secure your retirement, or busts entirely.
That's my game. And if I lose everything I've ever put into it? Bah, it's money I never had anyways

yup thats what I say either go all the way or just get out, every investment ive missed : tesla when it was 25, facebook at $30, eth on the ico , Always lost out becuase I was risk averse and just wanted to test the waters.

the money i refused to invest in those assets is gone or stuck in worthless 4 percent grwoth 401ks or farmed out to the tax man.

to make any real money or suceed in general u usually have to take risks , just look at the risk reward equation imo  

[Monayman]

I've been watching crypto markets for a good 5 years now and made the bulk of my investment within this past year and just recently got my first (and last) rig up and running.

My opinion is that the whole thing is just a continuous pump and dump. Its no different than a ponzi scheme where you require a greater fool to buy at a higher price from you. you have new dumb money getting sold on $5k-$100k bitcoin prices from hype and idiot memes, spending their paychecks on coinbase market buys as well as pure gambling on shitcoins while whales cash out to from these greater fools in predictable intervals. That's like the only pattern there is. It's just been exacerbated as of recently due to btc soft fork FUD and ETH ICOs cashing out the moment fundraising is over...they dont give a sh#t and the price tanking reflects that.

We should be really worried how all crypto coins are tied to btc price and how there's really no way to evaluate the worth of these coins via fundamental analysis.

I'll be bagholding for a good year i predict.

I do agree that the entire crypto world is very susceptible to pumps and dumps.
But in my humble opinion, that is a only a symptom of the low market value of the entire crypto market now - it is simply too cheap not to manipulate.
If you have been following the markets for that long, then I think you'll have noticed that the volatility of cryptos, while still insane when compared to high cap stocks, is far lower than it used to be ...

That makes it both extremely interesting and extremely risky to "invest" in. It is in fact more of a gamble than anything at this point to put any money anywhere near anything that has to do with crypto.

What makes me so bullish about the future value of BTC (or other cryptos), is that we have only begun scratching the surface of what the tech could be used for - from supplying underbanked masses with a means to store funds electronically, through (more useful nowadays) being used as a means to move around obscene amounts of money without requiring banks... If you wanted to move millions of dollars from one country to the next a few years ago, you'd have to stash your luggage with cash and hope that customs won't take a peek ... now it could be stored in a memorized private key, in the form of a currency that is liquid enough to convert to insane amounts of fiat in no time flat in most places in the world.

As to the possibility of "losing" money vs fiat value in BTC, due to volatility, I actually think the risk is manageable over short periods of time.
Ask Canadians how much buying power they lost over the last two years because of the insane decline of the Canadian dollar, or many Europeans got screwed because they pulled out loans in Swiss francs ... or how much was lost by people holding British pounds in the last year!

I do get that BTC is a very fringe-ey tech, but its uses and potential are very, very real.
Can it tank and become worthless? Sure.
But I just don't see that happening.
So bag holding is the way to go. And not even for a year - hold it until that shit can secure your retirement, or busts entirely.
That's my game. And if I lose everything I've ever put into it? Bah, it's money I never had anyways

+1

Bitcoin is a solid holding, it is finally getting a scaling improvement.  Long term it will be BIG, I mean 10 years down the line 2 or 3 btc will fund your retirement.  Some other coins are good to be in as well, just any solid crypto portfolio.

Now look at Berkshire Hathaway

Opened in 1991 with about 1.6 million shares and market cap of ~11 billion for a stock price of $7100
Lets say you didn't buy in until 1995 4 year later which put it around btc current cap of ~30 billion @ $20'000 a share and you buy a single share.
Tons of volatility from 1995 to 2017 with big declines where lots of people bailed, but you hold.

Your $20'000 invest is worth $251'000 and growing.
That means the market cap doubled 13.7 times
You made $230'000

Now How many times can bitcoin or other solid coins double in price over ~10-20 years?
It did this year, how about next year and future halvings?

Exponential growth is some crazy shit.

----------

Edit I forgot about inflation.

The starting $20'000 would only be $32,500 by todays numbers.

Interestingly, I haven't calculated the returns on my Canadian investments vis à vis foreign currencies.
But suppose I had invested the same amount in Canadian GIC's 5 years ago as I did in my old mining equipment, corrected for current value against the USD, then even if I include the tax breaks offered by our govt for retirement funds (to be taxed upon withdrawal, of course), then I'd still be eons behind what I have made on cryptos. Shit, my investments made way more than that, and they still fell 30% vs the USD in the last two years 😪
In a funny way, even after years of neglect, crypto has protected me from forex fluctuations.
Hell, if BTC went down to 500 USD I'd still be in my money

[VoskCoin]

mined an uncle on eth pool today so got 5 eth plus 3.7 its quite profitable still if you get lucky solo mining, I usuall get an uncle a week , just gotta stick with it

whats your mh/s? congrats!

[fullzero]

All AMD GPUs sold out; almost all Nvidia GPUs sold out: and out comes the FUD.

If you want out; I'm sure your GPUs will sell quickly on the marketplace.

If you are new to crypto; you might find it strange that those who post about the impending doom: will be the first to spam you with pms about buying your GPUs. 

[Marvell1]

mined an uncle on eth pool today so got 5 eth plus 3.7 its quite profitable still if you get lucky solo mining, I usuall get an uncle a week , just gotta stick with it

whats your mh/s? congrats!

only 4000 mhs but the uncle rate is like 15 percent solo mining on ethpool
so odds are in your favor