What to do with the wall observer thread?

[bitserve]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a posters Activity Count

(... bla bla bla elite supremacist bullshit)

NO!
I'm a full member participating in WO since I was a Newbie and it's been the thread I've most participated, asked and responded in this whole forum.
Turn it in a closed elite club is throwing away A LOT of people who can aggregate. Just to be clear, the guy who's compiling the list and helping most is bitserve, another Full Member just like me.

Quite frankly I don't agree with you and bitserve appointing yourselves somehow as 'moderator selectors' or 'moderator selection process deciders' or whatever you want to call the bullshit elitist process bullies and gatekeepers you have self-appointed yourselves as ...  that really seems like elitist bullshit to me.

So piss off newbie and take your offensive response attitude with you.

I am not quite sure where your angriness come from, but let's just clarify that I haven't appointed anything myself.

I have just tried the get the ball rolling on the list compilation and nothing else. Anyone can (and should) update the list themselves. You have a strange sense of what is decision power or elitist bullshit.

It's just a list of people that have expressed their willingness to help with the moderation of the thread. That's all about it. Geez.

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[gentlemand]

Adam's WO never was a closed-elite club

But that's why this discussion exists. It's been clearly stated that the thread's a goner unless something is done.

I don't think it should be elites, but certain standards put in place from the off would ensure its survival.

[deepcolderwallet]

Adam's WO never was a closed-elite club

But that's why this discussion exists. It's been clearly stated that the thread's a goner unless something is done.

I don't think it should be elites, but certain standards put in place from the off would ensure its survival.

The problem stated by theymos is that a lot of unrelated posts were being reported to moderators, but I saw nowhere he describing that those off-topic were posted by newbies, Jr Members, Members, Full Members and Senior Members ONLY. Maybe what pissed him off was the alt shill and nazi r0ach (look, he's a Legendary !).
If theymos states it's statistically proven that the problem is related to lower badges I'll grab my stuff and go away, so far Marcus and yourself are arguing enforced by data YOU DO NOT KNOW and he's clearly moved by hate and scorn.

[marcus_of_augustus]

... ill informed ranting ... further unfounded accusations ... projecting .... etc etc

... you were the first to post an accusation of elitism (against me) ... you'll need to prove that first or leave the real arguments to people who know what they are talking about and have been around long enough to see every trick in the book.

(I suspect you might simply be trying to derail a civil discussion here so that WO never opens again).

[gentlemand]

The problem stated by theymos is that a lot of unrelated posts were being reported to moderators, but I saw nowhere he describing that those off-topic were posted by newbies, Jr Members, Members, Full Members and Senior Members ONLY. Maybe what pissed him off was the alt shill and nazi r0ach (look, he's a Legendary !).
If theymos states it's statistically proven that the problem is related to lower badges I'll grab my stuff and go away, so far Marcus and yourself are arguing enforced by data YOU DO NOT KNOW and he's clearly moved by hate and scorn.

I assume you weren't around for the peak noob apocalypse propagated by one maniac.

And I did say that I thought pre 2014 Heroes and Legends is excessive.

With the Anti Semite you are completely correct. If I was in charge of the thread every single one of its posts would be replaced with this - http://www.mdais.org/en/  and I'd sign up its email address for this - https://www.jdate.com/singles/lgbt-gay/

[marcus_of_augustus]

... misrepresented quotations ...

I am not quite sure where your angriness come from,

Just because I disagree with your methods or arguments doesn't make me "angry" ... you maybe projecting.

More likely you are getting sucked into deepercoldewallets attempts to create a shit storm vortex around this process, look where the accusations began.

[JayJuanGee]

Adam's WO never was a closed-elite club

But that's why this discussion exists. It's been clearly stated that the thread's a goner unless something is done.

I don't think it should be elites, but certain standards put in place from the off would ensure its survival.

The problem stated by theymos is that a lot of unrelated posts were being reported to moderators, but I saw nowhere he describing that those off-topic were posted by newbies, Jr Members, Members, Full Members and Senior Members ONLY. Maybe what pissed him off was the alt shill and nazi r0ach (look, he's a Legendary !).
If theymos states it's statistically proven that the problem is related to lower badges I'll grab my stuff and go away, so far Marcus and yourself are arguing enforced by data YOU DO NOT KNOW and he's clearly moved by hate and scorn.

What Marcus is suggesting is not unreasonable - because it has the potential to eliminate a lot of the need to moderate, and surely lower ranking members could still read the WO thread and there are other places that they could participate in order to rank-up.

I agree with you that it is likely not necessary to make the thread as exclusive that Marcus is suggesting - but I don't see any reason to allow posting rights to newbie and Jr member accounts (and I would even extend this to "member") - especially if there are goals to 1) take a way a lot of moderating responsibilities, 2) let the thread go as mostly unmoderated 3) allow all kinds of bullshit topics that would not otherwise be allowed in the speculation section of the forum - which is part of the WO thread history.

Personally, I don't have any problem with full member and above, but my consideration is nothing personal, and anyone below full member should recognize that nothing personal is meant by excluding them.  On the other hand, I believe that leaving the matter to hero and legendary levels, would be overkill and potentially cause way to much sterilizing of the thread - which is a considerable departure from it's history. 


One more point (on the other hand... I know it is my third hand), if all ranks are allowed to participate, of course we get the benefits of the community and newbie input - but at the same time, moderators are likely going to have to moderate a lot harder.. and deal with such clutter, yet most moderators are likely going to give more benefit of the doubt to higher ranking accounts, anyhow, even if some high ranking accounts (such as roach) are known for a particularly high level of offense, vile and off-topicness and would likely be subject to more "censorship" than an overwhelming majority of the accounts of a similar rank... in other words, accounts like roach seem to be the exception rather than the rule  and most accounts of a similar rank are not even close to his tendencies in the seemingly censorable direction.

[deepcolderwallet]

... ill informed ranting ... further unfounded accusations ... projecting .... etc etc

... you were the first to post an accusation of elitism (against me) ... you'll need to prove that first or leave the real arguments to people who know what they are talking about and (bla bla bla I am more special than you are).

(I suspect you might simply be trying to derail a civil discussion here so that WO never opens again).

Ok, let's go:

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a posters Activity Count

To me it's pretty clear you want WO to turn into a Legendary-closed club.
How is it possible to be misunderstood?

[deepcolderwallet]

Adam's WO never was a closed-elite club

But that's why this discussion exists. It's been clearly stated that the thread's a goner unless something is done.

I don't think it should be elites, but certain standards put in place from the off would ensure its survival.

The problem stated by theymos is that a lot of unrelated posts were being reported to moderators, but I saw nowhere he describing that those off-topic were posted by newbies, Jr Members, Members, Full Members and Senior Members ONLY. Maybe what pissed him off was the alt shill and nazi r0ach (look, he's a Legendary !).
If theymos states it's statistically proven that the problem is related to lower badges I'll grab my stuff and go away, so far Marcus and yourself are arguing enforced by data YOU DO NOT KNOW and he's clearly moved by hate and scorn.

What Marcus is suggesting is not unreasonable - because it has the potential to eliminate a lot of the need to moderate, and surely lower ranking members could still read the WO thread and there are other places that they could participate in order to rank-up.

I agree with you that it is likely not necessary to make the thread as exclusive that Marcus is suggesting - but I don't see any reason to allow posting rights to newbie and Jr member accounts (and I would even extend this to "member") - especially if there are goals to 1) take a way a lot of moderating responsibilities, 2) let the thread go as mostly unmoderated 3) allow all kinds of bullshit topics that would not otherwise be allowed in the speculation section of the forum - which is part of the WO thread history.

Personally, I don't have any problem with full member and above, but my consideration is nothing personal, and anyone below full member should recognize that nothing personal is meant by excluding them.  On the other hand, I believe that leaving the matter to hero and legendary levels, would be overkill and potentially cause way to much sterilizing of the thread - which is a considerable departure from it's history. 


One more point (on the other hand... I know it is my third hand), if all ranks are allowed to participate, of course we get the benefits of the community and newbie input - but at the same time, moderators are likely going to have to moderate a lot harder.. and deal with such clutter, yet most moderators are likely going to give more benefit of the doubt to higher ranking accounts, anyhow, even if some high ranking accounts (such as roach) are known for a particularly high level of offense, vile and off-topicness and would likely be subject to more "censorship" than an overwhelming majority of the accounts of a similar rank... in other words, accounts like roach seem to be the exception rather than the rule  and most accounts of a similar rank are not even close to his tendencies in the seemingly censorable direction.

Surely, I believe all Legendaries and Heroes can agree with that. It won't harm you.

I'd do a research and bring you here all the Non-high-ranked posts that have aggregated and contributed to make Wall Observer what it is known to be - probably the most reliable Bitcoin debate you can find in internet, far more than /r Unlimited fans - but I'm sure it would flood this thread and make theymos angry. So, you can do that by yourself, the thread is still open to consult. Be honest to your conscience and look there if only Legendaries and Heroes helped building the largest thread in BTCT history...

[marcus_of_augustus]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member or member joined before 2014to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a posters Activity Count

To me it's pretty clear you want WO to turn into a Legendary-closed club.
How is it possible to be misunderstood?

Straight off the bat you are twisting/lying to 'prove' your point. This is why it is pointless arguing with propagandists like you, there is no 'arguing' or honest debate for elucidation or problem solving, it is simply an all for show spewing of opinions to warp readers minds.

Anyone can read I said Hero or Legendary and in the warped view you present of my words to the world (to yourself?) it becomes "Legendary-closed club". It is nearly impossible to misunderstand yet you did immediately ... and then put those words in my mouth.

NB: I would consider extending that condition to include Full members (is that the one below Hero)? if it could be shown they behave themselves in the WO archives.

[deepcolderwallet]

I am not quite sure where your angriness come from, but let's just clarify that I haven't appointed anything myself.

I have just tried the get the ball rolling on the list compilation and nothing else. Anyone can (and should) update the list themselves. You have a strange sense of what is decision power or elitist bullshit.

It's just a list of people that have expressed their willingness to help with the moderation of the thread. That's all about it. Geez.

Maybe it's coming from the fact that you did not include Marcus fragile ego in the list of candidates.

Anyway good you did not. He showed up himself and what he thinks the WO should be. IMO a diametrically opposing view of what theymos kindly proposes by ASKING ALL OF US how it could be, considering the options.

Uh, and let's not forget ONLY NEWBIES are not allowed to vote, so I'll just shut up here and let the poll express what it will be.

[deepcolderwallet]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member or member joined before 2014to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a posters Activity Count

To me it's pretty clear you want WO to turn into a Legendary-closed club.
How is it possible to be misunderstood?

Straight off the bat you are twisting/lying to 'prove' your point. This is why it is pointless arguing with propagandists like you, there is no 'arguing' or honest debate for elucidation or problem solving, it is simply an all for show spewing of opinions to warp readers minds.

Anyone can read I said Hero or Legendary and in the warped view you present of my words to the world (to yourself?) it becomes "Legendary-closed club". It is nearly impossible to misunderstand yet you did immediately ... and then put those words in my mouth.

NB: I would consider extending that condition to include Full members (is that the one below Hero)? if it could be shown they behave themselves in the WO archives.

LOL YOU EDITED IT!!!!
You can state you wrote anything, YOU'RE EDITING YOUR POSTS.
Moderators could acces the log, this " or member joined before 2014to post in WO" was added later!

[JayJuanGee]

Adam's WO never was a closed-elite club

But that's why this discussion exists. It's been clearly stated that the thread's a goner unless something is done.

I don't think it should be elites, but certain standards put in place from the off would ensure its survival.

The problem stated by theymos is that a lot of unrelated posts were being reported to moderators, but I saw nowhere he describing that those off-topic were posted by newbies, Jr Members, Members, Full Members and Senior Members ONLY. Maybe what pissed him off was the alt shill and nazi r0ach (look, he's a Legendary !).
If theymos states it's statistically proven that the problem is related to lower badges I'll grab my stuff and go away, so far Marcus and yourself are arguing enforced by data YOU DO NOT KNOW and he's clearly moved by hate and scorn.

What Marcus is suggesting is not unreasonable - because it has the potential to eliminate a lot of the need to moderate, and surely lower ranking members could still read the WO thread and there are other places that they could participate in order to rank-up.

I agree with you that it is likely not necessary to make the thread as exclusive that Marcus is suggesting - but I don't see any reason to allow posting rights to newbie and Jr member accounts (and I would even extend this to "member") - especially if there are goals to 1) take a way a lot of moderating responsibilities, 2) let the thread go as mostly unmoderated 3) allow all kinds of bullshit topics that would not otherwise be allowed in the speculation section of the forum - which is part of the WO thread history.

Personally, I don't have any problem with full member and above, but my consideration is nothing personal, and anyone below full member should recognize that nothing personal is meant by excluding them.  On the other hand, I believe that leaving the matter to hero and legendary levels, would be overkill and potentially cause way to much sterilizing of the thread - which is a considerable departure from it's history.  


One more point (on the other hand... I know it is my third hand), if all ranks are allowed to participate, of course we get the benefits of the community and newbie input - but at the same time, moderators are likely going to have to moderate a lot harder.. and deal with such clutter, yet most moderators are likely going to give more benefit of the doubt to higher ranking accounts, anyhow, even if some high ranking accounts (such as roach) are known for a particularly high level of offense, vile and off-topicness and would likely be subject to more "censorship" than an overwhelming majority of the accounts of a similar rank... in other words, accounts like roach seem to be the exception rather than the rule  and most accounts of a similar rank are not even close to his tendencies in the seemingly censorable direction.

Surely, I believe all Legendaries and Heroes can agree with that. It won't harm you.

I'd do a research and bring you here all the Non-high-ranked posts that have aggregated and contributed to make Wall Observer what it is known to be - probably the most reliable Bitcoin debate you can find in internet, far more than /r Unlimited fans - but I'm sure it would flood this thread and make theymos angry. So, you can do that by yourself, the thread is still open to consult. Be honest to your conscience and look there if only Legendaries and Heroes helped building the largest thread in BTCT history...

You seem to be getting way too fucking emotional about this.  Did you even read what I wrote? I suggested full members and above, personally.

Furthermore, I understand the situation on a personal level, and I probably am in the top 5 quantity-wise posters in the WO thread.

I had been posting in that thread from newbie, and yeah, I have more than 80% of my total forum posts in that thread.

Your suggestion that someone is biased in their perspective merely because they might benefit is ridiculous and seems to be without merit.  Theymos and mods are presenting us with a particular situation and problem and at the same time allowing us to contribute input into possible solutions, and even though Marcus's suggestion is not likely to be fully adopted, it still remains a decent way to consider possible ways to address the problem and allow for various resolutions that will allow the continuation of the WO thread in a decent approximation of its former self - while addressing some moderation concerns.

[JayJuanGee]

NB: I would consider extending that condition to include Full members (is that the one below Hero)? if it could be shown they behave themselves in the WO archives.

There are senior members, too, but it seems that going down to full member would be reasonable to include.

[deepcolderwallet]

I think two relatively simple rules will eliminate a lot of the chaff and spam without impacting the 'sensible off-topicness':

1) you need to be Hero or Legendary member or member joined before 2014to post in WO

2) posts in WO do not add to a posters Activity Count

To me it's pretty clear you want WO to turn into a Legendary-closed club.
How is it possible to be misunderstood?

Straight off the bat you are twisting/lying to 'prove' your point. This is why it is pointless arguing with propagandists like you, there is no 'arguing' or honest debate for elucidation or problem solving, it is simply an all for show spewing of opinions to warp readers minds.

Anyone can read I said Hero or Legendary and in the warped view you present of my words to the world (to yourself?) it becomes "Legendary-closed club". It is nearly impossible to misunderstand yet you did immediately ... and then put those words in my mouth.

NB: I would consider extending that condition to include Full members (is that the one below Hero)? if it could be shown they behave themselves in the WO archives.

Come on!
I wrote Legendary-only but it was implicit I was referring to the context of "only-high-ranked". If it was not I wouldn't be stupid to quote the whole sentence.

[deepcolderwallet]

Adam's WO never was a closed-elite club

But that's why this discussion exists. It's been clearly stated that the thread's a goner unless something is done.

I don't think it should be elites, but certain standards put in place from the off would ensure its survival.

The problem stated by theymos is that a lot of unrelated posts were being reported to moderators, but I saw nowhere he describing that those off-topic were posted by newbies, Jr Members, Members, Full Members and Senior Members ONLY. Maybe what pissed him off was the alt shill and nazi r0ach (look, he's a Legendary !).
If theymos states it's statistically proven that the problem is related to lower badges I'll grab my stuff and go away, so far Marcus and yourself are arguing enforced by data YOU DO NOT KNOW and he's clearly moved by hate and scorn.

What Marcus is suggesting is not unreasonable - because it has the potential to eliminate a lot of the need to moderate, and surely lower ranking members could still read the WO thread and there are other places that they could participate in order to rank-up.

I agree with you that it is likely not necessary to make the thread as exclusive that Marcus is suggesting - but I don't see any reason to allow posting rights to newbie and Jr member accounts (and I would even extend this to "member") - especially if there are goals to 1) take a way a lot of moderating responsibilities, 2) let the thread go as mostly unmoderated 3) allow all kinds of bullshit topics that would not otherwise be allowed in the speculation section of the forum - which is part of the WO thread history.

Personally, I don't have any problem with full member and above, but my consideration is nothing personal, and anyone below full member should recognize that nothing personal is meant by excluding them.  On the other hand, I believe that leaving the matter to hero and legendary levels, would be overkill and potentially cause way to much sterilizing of the thread - which is a considerable departure from it's history.  


One more point (on the other hand... I know it is my third hand), if all ranks are allowed to participate, of course we get the benefits of the community and newbie input - but at the same time, moderators are likely going to have to moderate a lot harder.. and deal with such clutter, yet most moderators are likely going to give more benefit of the doubt to higher ranking accounts, anyhow, even if some high ranking accounts (such as roach) are known for a particularly high level of offense, vile and off-topicness and would likely be subject to more "censorship" than an overwhelming majority of the accounts of a similar rank... in other words, accounts like roach seem to be the exception rather than the rule  and most accounts of a similar rank are not even close to his tendencies in the seemingly censorable direction.

Surely, I believe all Legendaries and Heroes can agree with that. It won't harm you.

I'd do a research and bring you here all the Non-high-ranked posts that have aggregated and contributed to make Wall Observer what it is known to be - probably the most reliable Bitcoin debate you can find in internet, far more than /r Unlimited fans - but I'm sure it would flood this thread and make theymos angry. So, you can do that by yourself, the thread is still open to consult. Be honest to your conscience and look there if only Legendaries and Heroes helped building the largest thread in BTCT history...

You seem to be getting way too fucking emotional about this.  Did you even read what I wrote? I suggested full members and above, personally.

Furthermore, I understand the situation on a personal level, and I probably am in the top 5 quantity-wise posters in the WO thread.

I had been posting in that thread from newbie, and yeah, I have more than 80% of my total forum posts in that thread.

Your suggestion that someone is biased in their perspective merely because they might benefit is ridiculous and seems to be without merit.  Theymos and mods are presenting us with a particular situation and problem and at the same time allowing us to contribute input into possible solutions, and even though Marcus's suggestion is not likely to be fully adopted, it still remains a decent way to consider possible ways to address the problem and allow for various resolutions that will allow the continuation of the WO thread in a decent approximation of its former self - while addressing some moderation concerns.

Dude, I understood your point about adding Full Members to the "few-selected-list". My point is that theymos never stated the problem was low-ranked being reported to moderators.
Until he comes here and says "You Newbies, Jr Members, Members, Full Members and Senior Members are the problem here! You're not allowed to mix with the forum deities who receive Marcus respect!" what Marcus and all those who defend high-ranks-posting-only are saying is based on assumptions. You assume that MAYBE the thread was closed because low-ranks are sabotaging. Ok, show me where theymos stated this!

[bitserve]

Have anyone realised that Hero's and Legendary's have achieved that rank for being "prolific" posters?

Wouldn't it be better to do it based on account creation? Something like you can't post to WO if you haven't been registered in the forum for at least 3 or 4 years.

Now seriously... Theymos has already stated that signatures won't show up on WO and that, just maybe, the post count won't increase. Isn't that enough to stop most of the nonsense posts? No signature campaign earning nor activity farming should do wonders.

I would understand newbie accounts not being able to post as they would only need a couple of weeks to achieve the rank and it avoids someone just creating new accounts on the go to keep spamming the thread. Other than that seems too much a restriction to me... but if that's what most people want, why not?

I am not gonna cry for that

[marcus_of_augustus]

... oh boy, a noob spamming a WO-related thread with made-up controversies, machine-gun quote-spam posting and dragging posters into irrelevant side-arguments ... how original, where have we seen that before I wonder?

No wonder deepcolderwallet is shilling for noob accounts because he's just going to create another one when he gets kick-banned for excessive disruption.

[deepcolderwallet]

Have anyone realised that Hero's and Legendary's have achieved that rank for being "prolific" posters?

Wouldn't it be better to do it based on account creation? Something like you can't post to WO if you haven't been registered in the forum for at least 3 or 4 years.

Now seriously... Theymos has already stated that signatures won't show up on WO and that, just maybe, the post count won't increase. Isn't that enough to stop most of the nonsense posts? No signature campaign earning nor activity farming should do wonders.

I would understand newbie accounts not being able to post as they would only need a couple of weeks to achieve the rank and it avoids someone just creating new accounts on the go to keep spamming the thread. Other than that seems too much a restriction to me... but if that's what most people want, why not?

I am not gonna cry for that

Because your account is pretty old and it won't affect you!
But came into Bitcoin last year and I've been participating in this thread almost DAILY! That is such a source of information, the same way I've been adding some REAL WALL OBSERVATIONS to debate. Is it fair to rip off people like me, who are SERIOUSLY coming to Bitcoin recently? How is it contributing to our so dreamed S-curve of adoption? Do you really want to turn my retirement savings into an "ONLY-THE-OLD-COMRADES" club?

[bitserve]

Have anyone realised that Hero's and Legendary's have achieved that rank for being "prolific" posters?

Wouldn't it be better to do it based on account creation? Something like you can't post to WO if you haven't been registered in the forum for at least 3 or 4 years.

Now seriously... Theymos has already stated that signatures won't show up on WO and that, just maybe, the post count won't increase. Isn't that enough to stop most of the nonsense posts? No signature campaign earning nor activity farming should do wonders.

I would understand newbie accounts not being able to post as they would only need a couple of weeks to achieve the rank and it avoids someone just creating new accounts on the go to keep spamming the thread. Other than that seems too much a restriction to me... but if that's what most people want, why not?

I am not gonna cry for that

Because your account is pretty old and it won't affect you!
But came into Bitcoin last year and I've been participating in this thread almost DAILY! That is such a source of information, the same way I've been adding some REAL WALL OBSERVATIONS to debate. Is it fair to rip off people like me, who are SERIOUSLY coming to Bitcoin recently? How is it contributing to our so dreamed S-curve of adoption? Do you really want to turn my retirement savings into an "ONLY-THE-OLD-COMRADES" club?

I was being ironic (see the "Now seriously..." part) because I find this discussion completely absurd. I have already stated I am against that sort of restriction. The only one that I would think reasonable is restricting *newbie* accounts from posting... and even that is not something I really like.