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Author Topic: ⚠ AUGUST 1: Bitcoin chainsplit (Summary)  (Read 3997 times)
kobe24
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July 12, 2017, 12:23:03 AM
 #81

Sa tingin nyo po ang pag bagsak kaya ni BTC ngayun ay may kinalaman sa mangayayari sa August 1?
Oo kung sakaling babagsak man ang presyo ng bitcoin may chance din kasi na tumaas din ang presyo ng bitcoin pagkatapos ng augist 1.

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July 12, 2017, 02:30:59 AM
 #82

Sa tingin ko dalawa lang ang pwdeng pinkasafe na gawin bago mangyari ang soft fork its either papalit mu muna sa altcoins like op said or pangalawa i cash out muna natin then observe kung anu mangyayari, ung ibang mga gahaman na miners kc sa tingin ko di lahat mag aagree sa softfork na to kya split na to pero ang hindi ko maintindihan hindi ba pwde i force ng bitcoin core dev na magagree lahat ng miners?

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July 12, 2017, 03:15:06 AM
 #83

Diko talaga maintindihan ito, buti nalang at may thread na gumawa dito ngayon mejo naiintindihan kuna
Kung anuman ang mangyari sa August 1 I'm still hold my Bitcoin, kung sakaling bumagsak man ang presyo ng Bitcoin tyak madami ang bibili nito.
I have a positive thinking after ng upgrade ng segwit2x tyak tataas ulit ang presyo ng Bitcoin
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July 12, 2017, 05:00:38 AM
 #84

Thank you sa post nyo sir very informative. But What if mag split nga si bitcoin. Paano na si coins.ph magiging dalawa rin yung Bitcoin wallet nya O baka mamili lang din sila kung anong i aadopt nila?

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July 12, 2017, 05:15:55 AM
 #85

San po ba mas mainam itago ang btc sa mga priv key or i trade sa altcoin... Npansin ko po sir ung btc pabagsak at sumusunod din ang mga altcoin... Nd tulad dati kpg ng dump c btc pump nmn c altcoin.
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July 12, 2017, 05:25:24 AM
 #86

Sa tingin ko dalawa lang ang pwdeng pinkasafe na gawin bago mangyari ang soft fork its either papalit mu muna sa altcoins like op said or pangalawa i cash out muna natin then observe kung anu mangyayari, ung ibang mga gahaman na miners kc sa tingin ko di lahat mag aagree sa softfork na to kya split na to pero ang hindi ko maintindihan hindi ba pwde i force ng bitcoin core dev na magagree lahat ng miners?

Pwede mo naman gawin yan mag benta ka yun nga lang wag kang magsisi kapag tumaas yung presyo. Ok naman kung itago mo nalang sa offline wallet na hawak mo private key, seed o master public keys.

San po ba mas mainam itago ang btc sa mga priv key or i trade sa altcoin... Npansin ko po sir ung btc pabagsak at sumusunod din ang mga altcoin... Nd tulad dati kpg ng dump c btc pump nmn c altcoin.

Nasa sayo yan, ako mas pipiliin ko yung wallet na hawak mo private key para ma recover mo. Damay damay kasi talaga pag bumagsak ang bitcoin, bagsak din.

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July 12, 2017, 08:18:09 AM
 #87



x-post from PinoyBitcoin.org: Link



Alright. After ko makabasa ng post tungkol sa August 1 sa ibang thread dito sa bitcointalk, kung saan may posibilidad magka "hard-fork", naisipan ko nalang gumawa nalang ng post na 'less technical' tungkol dito.

Quote
Walang mang yayari sa august 1 dahil maraming nakikinabang dito at Hindi mawawala ang bitcoin dahil marami dito ang umaasa sa bitcoin lang sila nag hahanap buhay, kaya Hindi matutuloy yan.
Quote
ano nga bang meron sa august 1? baka haka haka lang yan wag kayo maniwala jan
Quote
Walang mang yayari sa august 1 dahil maraming nakikinabang dito at Hindi mawawala ang bitcoin dahil marami dito ang umaasa sa bitcoin lang sila nag hahanap buhay, kaya Hindi matutuloy yan.


Triqqered na c acqouh

Anong mangyayari sa August 1?

Alam naman siguro nating lahat na may problema ang bitcoin ngayon, mataas na ang transaction fees ngayon at mejo matagal na ang transaction time. Bakit hindi parin ito naaayos? Ito po ay dahil sa sort of parang "political" issue sa bitcoin devs at miners natin kung saan nahati sa dalawang sides ang bitcoin community dahil magkaiba sila ng proposed na solution. Kung mejo matagal na kayo sa mundo sa bitcoins hindi na siguro bago sayo ang mga salitang "Segregated Witness (SegWit)" at "Bitcoin unlimited (BU)", yan ang dalawang panig na pinag uusapan natin.

So ano nga ang mangyayari? Merong tatlong possibleng outcome.

    1. BIP-148 succeeds, no chain split.

    2. BIP-148 fails, no chain split.

    3. Walang panalo. Ito na ung kinakatakutan ng karamihan. Mahahati sa dalawa ang bitcoin. Pero most likely hindi sa August 1 mismo mangyayari ito. pwedeng after a few weeks or a few months.


Anong mangyayari sa presyo ng Bitcoin?

Pag nahati man sa dalawa ang bitcoin, most likely babagsak ang presyo ng bitcoin. baka nga as even as low as $500 per bitcoin. Pero kung long term holder kayo, ay wala dapat kayong katakutan. Since most likely tataas rin lang ulit ang presyo ng BTC, parang ung nangyari dati sa Ethereum (Ethereum & Ethereum Classic). Ang hindi lang natin alam is alin sa dalawa (o tatlong) coins ang magiging mas successful.


Paano ko poprotektahan ang bitcoins ko?
    1. Prevent niyo muna magtransact ng bitcoins on and after August 1.

    2. Alisin niyo ang bitcoins niyo sa exchanges. Istore lamang ito sa wallets kung saan may control kayo sa private keys niyo.
Quote
"If you don't control your private keys, you don't have any bitcoin"
Guide: Bitcoin wallets
    3. Optional: Pag gusto niyo mag play safe, itrade niyo muna ang bitcoins niyo kapalit ng ibang altcoins (Ethereum, Dash, Litecoin)


More in-depth sources:
www.uasf.co/
www.bitcoincore.org/en/segwit_adoption/
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_Unlimited


P.S. Feel free to correct me pag may mali man sa explanations ko (hirap po akong mag explain sa tagalog Sad )

Humihingi rin po kami ng tulong sa Facebook page namin. Puros bash ang natatanggap namin kasi scam at nagsspread daw po kami ng takot Sad hahaha

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Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/PinoyBitcoin.org

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thanks for this post but i really hope na its all but a scheme

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July 12, 2017, 08:44:06 AM
 #88

Thank you sa post nyo sir very informative. But What if mag split nga si bitcoin. Paano na si coins.ph magiging dalawa rin yung Bitcoin wallet nya O baka mamili lang din sila kung anong i aadopt nila?


Possible mangyayari talaga na mas mag pili ka kung anu sa dalawa yung e.adopt mo, kasi possible if mangyari man yan talagang mag split talaga. as long as mangyari yan.
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July 12, 2017, 09:29:17 AM
 #89

Matagal ko na pong gustong malaman kung ano talaga ang mangyayari sa parating na august 1. Buti nalang pinaliwanag mo pre, mahahati pala ang bitcoin pero hindi literal na hatiin yung coin. Siguro yung total supply ng bitcoin ay hahatiin sa dalawa so may malaking epekto yan sa presyo, nakakatakot.

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July 12, 2017, 09:18:31 PM
 #90

Habang papalapit ang August 1 may chance na onti onting mag dump/sell na yung mga hindi sigurado sa mangyayari , yung mga kinakabahan at yung mga umaasa na bababa ang price ng bitcoin.
Syempre kung feeling mo na bababa ang bitcoin, mas okay na magsell ka na ngayon para mataas pa palitan tapos pagkabumaba na yung price ay bibili ka ulit so = tubo un.


Ganyan nga gagawin ko din kasi katulad ngayon $2,301 na yung presyo ni bitcoin. Pero kahapon $2,500 kaya ang laki ng bawas sayang din pero mas mabuti na yung mauna kang makabenta kesa sa wala at mas mababa pa yung kikitain mo.

Ganyan din naman balak siguro ng mga traders dito sa bitcoin. Buy low sell high. Ganyan din gawain ko para kumita ng mas madaming bbitcoin. Instant profit din un.

Panigurado yan gagawin ng karamihan sa mga traders kasi nga dahil sa split. Kaya ang iba gusto nila ma convert muna sa pera tapos bibili na lang ulit para wala silang problema at mas convenient yung ganung gagawin.

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July 12, 2017, 09:46:19 PM
 #91

pwede ba yung bitcoin ko sa coins.ph eh e convert ko na sa php wallet ko? no problem nman noh wla nman atang mawawala kesa mag api code ako o any key bka nga masiraan sabi nila

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July 13, 2017, 12:13:43 PM
 #92

Ito malaking tulong to na post ni Sir Thymos. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2017191.0 ..

Basahing mabuti.

Although it hasn't happened before, and it is very undesirable, it is possible for Bitcoin to split into two non-negligible separate currencies.

Why is this possible? / What causes a split?

There is no actual BTC in your Bitcoin wallet: there are only private keys which are used to unlock and then transfer ownership of BTC stored in the Bitcoin system. BTC never actually leaves the Bitcoin system. A split creates a clone of the original cryptocurrency, but with modifications preventing the two cryptocurrencies from actually being the same; after the split, you cannot send coins from one side of the split to the other. After the split, your private key can be used to unlock your coins on both the original system and the modified system.

It's like if someone got their hands on a copy of the google.com database and created super-google.com starting with the google.com database but with different features. You could use the same login credentials to login at either google.com or super-google.com. But after the clone was created, if you received mail.google.com email, it would not show up at mail.super-google.com, and vice-versa. Similarly, you can use the same private key to spend money on the original currency or the modified currency, but after the split they diverge.

Anyone can create a split. It only requires a few lines of code changes. But splits only matter if people of economic significance actually use the split (ie. they must run the modified software).

Splits happen in the following situations:

 - In a contentious hardfork.
 - In a user-activated softfork (UASF) which lacks both majority mining power at the time of activation and near-unanimous support from the economy. If it has one or the other, then a split does not result.
 - In a BIP9-style miner-triggered softfork where a very large number of miners are lying about their enforcement of the softfork. (Unlikely.)

What happens to my bitcoins in a split?

It's similar to a stock spin-off. You have x BTC beforehand, and afterward you have both x BTC and x "BTC-X". But very importantly, your wallet will not magically know that it is now able to unlock both currencies. If your wallet is not updated to account for the split, then you will only be able to spend one of the currencies, probably the more "status-quo" one. Another possibility is that your wallet could be updated, but only to support a different currency than it would've otherwise, not to support both. It is not unreasonable for wallets to support only one currency, since they really weren't originally designed/intended to support multiple. But if your wallet only supports one of the currencies, then you will usually end up throwing away some or all of the other currency when you next send coins after the split, as a side-effect of the transaction -- this is called "replay".

Value is unpredictable. Like a stock split or spin-off, you'd vaguely expect the value of BTC  immediately before the split to equal the sum of the values of "BTC" and "BTC-X" immediately after the split. But if a split like this is anything close to a 50-50 split (in relation to economic adoption/value, not node or miner adoption), then the whole thing will probably be unbelievably, catastrophically messy, which may result in the combined value crashing. On the other hand, if the minority currency is pretty small and things don't get too messy, the minority side could be speculatively overvalued (similar to altcoins) without affecting the majority side too much, causing the combined value to rise somewhat.

Which side of the split is the real Bitcoin?

That depends on a wide variety of factors, and to some degree it is subjective. The most important factor is which currency people/businesses/exchanges accept: if for example one currency is accepted by 95% of the pre-split economy, and the other is accepted by only 5% of the pre-split economy, then the 95% one is probably truly Bitcoin, and the other one can be considered a Bitcoin-derived altcoin. Note that mining power has very little influence here.

Some might say that both currencies post-split are valid incarnations of Bitcoin, but it is my philosophy that only one Bitcoin can exist at any one time; any uncertainty is only a temporary feature, and at least in hindsight there will be a single unbroken path from Satoshi's original Bitcoin to the current one.

What should I do to secure my bitcoins?

First of all, remove all bitcoins possible from banks/exchanges/"hosted wallets". If you can't export your private keys, then you don't actually control the bitcoins. This is a good idea in general, but it's especially important in case of splits. If you're using a Bitcoin bank, then you will have no control over what happens to your coins. Quite possibly, the bank will end up stealing/losing one of the currencies that you should have access to, either through greed/malice or technical incompetence, and the currency they throw away might well be the only one that ends up having any long-term value.

Possible splits are usually predictable some time in advance (see the next section). If in doubt, avoid sending transactions or trusting received transactions 12 hours before and up to a few days after the split time, and check the forum for more news. If a major split happens, I will very likely make a post and news item explaining how to handle the situation. Coins at rest are not at risk.

Generally, after a split:

 - If you want to completely ignore (ie. discard) one of the currencies, and your wallet is already set up to ignore that currency, then you don't have to do anything.
 - If you want to completely ignore (ie. discard) one of the currencies, and your wallet is set up to support only that currency, then you might be able to change the software's settings after the split, or you might have to switch to different wallet software.
 - If you want to use both currencies at the same time or sell one of the currencies, then you will probably have to follow a somewhat-complicated series of steps possibly involving running some extra software in order to cleanly split your coins and eliminate the possibility of replay.

What are SegWit, BIP148, UASFs, and "UAHF", and how do they relate to this? / When might a split happen?

SegWit is a set of changes to Bitcoin which increases the max block size, among other improvements. Under its initial BIP141/BIP9 deployment plan, there is almost no chance of a split.

A user-activated softfork (UASF) is a general method of deploying softforks (like SegWit). UASFs have been done in the past, both by Satoshi and after Satoshi left. Unlike the BIP9 deployment method originally planned for SegWit, a UASF does not require any miner cooperation. A UASF can fail, but only through insufficient economic adoption, not by any miner action. However, splits are more likely with UASFs than with BIP9 deployments, especially when the UASF is done on a compressed schedule. (For ideally-low split risk, a UASF would take about a year to activate.)

BIP148 is one specific UASF. It is intended to activate SegWit. It activates and may cause a split on August 1. If it succeeds economically, it will activate SegWit by November.

The large Bitcoin miner Bitmain announced that they might engage in a (nonsensically-named) "user activated hardfork" ("UAHF") shortly after BIP148 activates if BIP148 has any success. This would definitely cause an additional split, resulting in up to three currencies: BIP148-Bitcoin, Bitmain-coin, and (depending on the degree of BIP148's success) status-quo-Bitcoin. As mentioned previously, if you have x BTC before the split, you'll be technically able to claim x of all three of these currencies after the split.

The next time when a split is predicted to possibly happen is therefore August 1, 2017 at midnight UTC.

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July 13, 2017, 01:59:50 PM
 #93

Ask ko lang kung pwede ba itago muna yun bitcoin mo sa blockchain.info while the splitting is on the process? Safe ba?
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July 13, 2017, 02:18:09 PM
 #94

Ask ko lang kung pwede ba itago muna yun bitcoin mo sa blockchain.info while the splitting is on the process? Safe ba?

mas maganda kung sa desktop wallets or mycelium sa android mo itago ang coins mo, not sure ko kasi sa blockchain.info ngayon kung posible pa ba makuha yung copy ng private key mo, pero kung kaya mo pa din iaaccess ang private key mo sa blockchain.info ay ok lang yan, safe pa din yan

 
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July 13, 2017, 03:01:27 PM
 #95

Ano po bang meron dito sa august madami akong nababasa na may split na magaganap ank pi bang split yun? Sorry newbei lang sa bitcoin
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July 13, 2017, 03:03:37 PM
 #96

Ano po bang meron dito sa august madami akong nababasa na may split na magaganap ank pi bang split yun? Sorry newbei lang sa bitcoin
Split parang may fork na magaganap na hahatiin sa dalawang currencies si bitcoin. Bit sa tingin ko wala namang split na magaganap if di tayo mag paoa apekto sa mga FUD na nagkakalat pallagi

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s31joemhar
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July 13, 2017, 03:09:26 PM
 #97

ano po ba ang mga pwedeng mangyari sa bitcoin kung sakaling mag split po ito ?
at sa mga bitcoin holder po ngayon po ba ang mga dapat gawin para maka iwas po sa split na ito
and talaga bang babagsak ang price ng bitcoin na o pati mga alt coins kasama sa pag basag nito
blockman
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July 15, 2017, 08:31:18 AM
 #98

ano po ba ang mga pwedeng mangyari sa bitcoin kung sakaling mag split po ito ?

Mahahati sa dalawang chain, yung isa parang magiging alt coin nalang at kung ano ang may majority support yun na ang magiging bitcoin. (Correct me if I'm wrong experts.)

at sa mga bitcoin holder po ngayon po ba ang mga dapat gawin para maka iwas po sa split na ito

Hindi tayo makakaiwas sa split na ito ang pinakamainam na gawin ay ilagay mo lang sa offline wallet o ano mang storage na alam mo yung private key. Wag mong ilagay sa mga exchange o coins.ph kasi hindi natin sigurado ang dapat mangyari.

and talaga bang babagsak ang price ng bitcoin na o pati mga alt coins kasama sa pag basag nito

Walang nakakaalam, normal lang naman nangyayari yan kapag may mga ganitong bagay na nangyayari sa bitcoin.

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July 15, 2017, 10:30:30 AM
 #99

Yung sa gustong magtago ng bitcoin nila, mas okay na mag generate na kayo ng sarili nyong bitcoin address na kayo lamang ang nakakaalam ng private keys para sure na safe.
Withdraw your bitcoins sa exchanges at isend dun sa nagawa nyo, isama nyo na din yung mga coins nyo sa gambling sites.

My strat:
Kinonvert ko na yung bitcoin ko nung mga 120k+ pa yung price sa coins.ph wallet ko (ibig sabihin na sell ko ng mahal) , pag medyo bumaba pa ung price isesend ko na sa own controlled btc wallet (mag buy in ako ng btc sa coins.ph pero sa mas mababang presyo) = tubo. Kung sakaling magkaproblema at hindi na mka withdraw or tumaas ang price, iwiwithdraw ko nalang as cash.
merchantofzeny
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July 15, 2017, 11:15:39 AM
 #100

Yung sa gustong magtago ng bitcoin nila, mas okay na mag generate na kayo ng sarili nyong bitcoin address na kayo lamang ang nakakaalam ng private keys para sure na safe.
Withdraw your bitcoins sa exchanges at isend dun sa nagawa nyo, isama nyo na din yung mga coins nyo sa gambling sites.

My strat:
Kinonvert ko na yung bitcoin ko nung mga 120k+ pa yung price sa coins.ph wallet ko (ibig sabihin na sell ko ng mahal) , pag medyo bumaba pa ung price isesend ko na sa own controlled btc wallet (mag buy in ako ng btc sa coins.ph pero sa mas mababang presyo) = tubo. Kung sakaling magkaproblema at hindi na mka withdraw or tumaas ang price, iwiwithdraw ko nalang as cash.

Hindi naman lagpas 50k yung pera ko pero kinonvert ko na rin po yung half to peso and iniwan ko lang din dun sa coins.ph. Ano na po magandang gawin next? Ilipat ko na lahat yung natirang bitcoins to a personal address?

Tungkol po dun sa software wallets, hindi pa rin po kasi ako nag-iinstall since parang mabagal ang laptop ko, may way po ba yung to restore yung coins if ever magmalfunction yung app? For example, nagreformat po ako, marerecover ko pa po ba yun?
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