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Author Topic: Martinm's rating of ASIC Companies [BitSyncom VS ASICMiner VS BFL]  (Read 2792 times)
miningusa
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May 09, 2013, 02:55:13 PM
 #21

Can't wait for batch 3 to ship, then we can all make money!! Not sure about the other companies, I'd be slightly cautious.
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May 09, 2013, 03:08:02 PM
 #22

Your scores are a little off OP, let me fix them for you.  In terms of the proportion of customers actually able to make a successful investment?

Avalon - 2/10

BFL - 1/10

ASICminer - 8/10

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May 09, 2013, 03:24:42 PM
 #23

martinm did you just gave BFL a 7 on their PR? IF you are not retard-inaba then you really don't know about this movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y&t=2m48s  is this a way to treat your potential customers? also i am sure that you are not aware of the amount of rage and swears that Inaba did on this forum.
"Price/Performance of Products" WHAT PRODUCTS??? 40 or so Jalapenos?

INABA YOU ARE A RETARD that doesn't pay loosing bets! there! Cheesy

Edit: martinm what is the use of this topic? really! you just created this account and you thought "hey! let's help some random people just because i got nothing else to do". do you think people can't decide for themselves what to buy or what? why would you spend some of your time to help unknown people?

Hey RoadStress,

for sure I also saw this video long time ago, I read about the crimes Josh did, and I'm observing BitCoins and the community for about 1,5 years. Looking at this video we can clearly say that the behavior is not fitting, but I also read that it was not the first visit of micon at this exhibition at BFL, and I could also suspect that the reaction was a little bit provoked. However, a representative of a company should be able to handle himself, so its no excuse, but maybe that's one of the reasons why BFL is searching for employees on their website? Another point we have to look at is how many other ASIC companies showed up at the exhibition, how many visitors the other ones had? So PR is about showing up in public, there is bad PR, good PR and no PR. The ones that have good PR and bad PR can get some points for it, but somebody without PR can hardly get a good score.

martinm what is the use of this topic? really! you just created this account and you thought "hey! let's help some random people just because i got nothing else to do". do you think people can't decide for themselves what to buy or what? why would you spend some of your time to help unknown people?

It's to look at the companies by evaluating all aspects of an business structure and running company, not just who has a product in his hands. In my opinion a lot of aspects are under evaluated in other discussions here. It's kind of interesting and concerning to see peoples behavior in the ASIC-Rush. In fact the BitCoin community lost already too much money just by believing in something and someone driven by greed. However, everyone makes his own decision. Anyway it's still kind of funny when somebody think that any of the mentioned companies is going out as a winner when nobody got a score more then 5 of 10. If we would put some other companies into the race like AMD and NVIDIA, their score for performance would be the worst, but the total scores would be much higher then any of the other companies, but most people don't care about. The time I spend here to write is not worse then the time I spend to read the topics in this forum. I'm missing mostly considerations about the details of the companies structures, especially about their legal structures. It would be great if somebody can provide some information about the company structures of BitSyncom and ASICMiner. We all should meanwhile know that all three companies can provide products, but lets look into the details.
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May 09, 2013, 03:28:49 PM
 #24

BFL PR = 1 at best

BFL < Avalon < ASICMINER

Disclaimer: I'm a BFL and Avalon customer.
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May 09, 2013, 03:32:31 PM
 #25

We all should meanwhile know that all three companies can provide products, but lets look into the details.

CAN provide products...yes. However, one of these companies started ahead of the other two, sold more pre-orders than the other two, and has delivered less than either of the others, particularly if you appropriately discount units sent to devs and media and not proper investors. That's the company that's the stinker of the group. There's no way around this...regardless of how you rate their PR kung-fu. Spewing bs is no substitute for delivering results.

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May 09, 2013, 03:37:02 PM
 #26

First make a poll and the present results... or just write a lovestory about your personal fav

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May 09, 2013, 03:47:37 PM
 #27

So much fail in this post.

Nice to see that for OP the worst ASIC company is the only one which has been able to deliver 68 GH/s for $1,200 up to date. And the first one to be able to deliver ASICs to final customers, enabling them to have an immense ROI.

Glad to see that for OP Butterfly Labs is way ahead of Avalon.... Yes, BFL, the same company that took dozens millions of dollars in preorders, without being able to deliver shit for almost one year. The same company that screwed big time thousands of customers, the same company that sold for $30k a unit (the mini rig) that cannot exist, and that haven't proven to have any working unit apart from a shitty and power hungry "Bitforce 5GH/s miner".

And the cherry on the cake is seeing that for OP Butterfly Labs is almost tied with ASICMINER, a company which paid back to its shareholders the IPO price in just a few weeks, that is consistently paying dividends, and that proved that can ship units in the same week of purchase.

OP: shame on you.

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May 09, 2013, 03:57:45 PM
 #28

Price performance of products should be 0, since 99.99% of their customers are currently getting 0GH/s.

This is exactly what I thought looking at his "rankings"
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May 09, 2013, 04:01:20 PM
 #29

I'm speechless here. I'd thought that it was painfully obvious that ASICMiner => Avalon > BFL at this point.  Undecided


The OPs mistakes:
 * not weighting scores. Delivery time and price / performance should be given far more emphasis.
 * It's too early to judge customer service yet.
 * PR - who cares? The manufacturers are working it out as they go and can't promise fulfilment of any promise, so why does PR matter at all?
 * Assets - why? These companies have bootstrapped. Avalon and BFL have asked for preorders - they're not yet in a position to have any significant assets
 * 30000 units sold by BFL? I think that's out by an order of magnitude.

The post's a good idea, but the implementation is faulty.

OoC,

3000 or 300000?
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May 09, 2013, 04:05:55 PM
 #30

I'm speechless here. I'd thought that it was painfully obvious that ASICMiner => Avalon > BFL at this point.  Undecided


The OPs mistakes:
 * not weighting scores. Delivery time and price / performance should be given far more emphasis.
 * It's too early to judge customer service yet.
 * PR - who cares? The manufacturers are working it out as they go and can't promise fulfilment of any promise, so why does PR matter at all?
 * Assets - why? These companies have bootstrapped. Avalon and BFL have asked for preorders - they're not yet in a position to have any significant assets
 * 30000 units sold by BFL? I think that's out by an order of magnitude.

The post's a good idea, but the implementation is faulty.

OoC,

3000 or 300000?

If it was 300000 I would weep for the lost earnings of thousands of ASIC purchasers, including me (personal tragedy - my own personal tragedy that is - always makes me saddest).

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May 09, 2013, 04:08:05 PM
 #31

Batch 1 was 300 units. They delivered less than 300.
(reading the first line i had to correct you before reading the rest...)

Ok, about the rest... what should i say? BFL deserves a 2 (they have a product and they are not a complete scam, that's strange in this world), Avalon a 3 (where is my order that should have shipped 2 months ago/why you had to create a separate smt line/why is the difficulty skyrocketing/why the continuos delay and bullshit [you started shipping back in april, you shipped 20 units]/why you have yet to deliver a single product paid this year/if you wanted to mine yourself, why asking for our money to create your hardware? etc.., ASICMINER deserves a good rating, they have a good PR and they did the magic with a good capital, they could have run away/claim to have failed, they didn't. They are extremely overpriced, but it's always better to pay a lot (avalon batch 3, 7500$?) and to have nothing back.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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May 09, 2013, 04:22:46 PM
 #32

Batch 1 was 300 units. They delivered less than 300.
(reading the first line i had to correct you before reading the rest...)
Ok, about the rest... what should i say? BFL deserves a 2 (they have a product), Avalon a 3 (where is my order that should have shipped 2 months ago and why you had to create a separate smt line/why is the difficulty skyrocketing/why the continuos delay and bullshit[you started shipping back in april, you shipped 20 units, etc...], ASICMINER deserves a good rating, they have a good PR, and they ship in time. They are extremely overpriced, but it's always better than to pay and not to receive.

I removed the total score as it is misleading the topic, if we just could look at the overall performance (without priority of if or how much they have delivered till now) of this companies and their legal structures, that would be great.
Additionally we could do some kind of math to give a score for the delivery of the companies. If a company delivered 100% of their orders (or at least provided some tracking numbers) they get a score of 10. So here the calculation:

Butterfly: 0% =  0 of estimated 30000 units (I don't count the 35 devices they claimed to deliver, it just proves that they have an own chip)
Score: 0

BitSyncom:7.90 % = 280 of 3541 units
Score: 0.79

ASICMiner: 100% = 10 of 10 units
Score: 10

Calculation
Batch 1: 300 Units (not all delivered, lets say 280 Units were delivered)
Batch 2: 600 Units (not delivered)
Batch 3: 600 Units (not delivered, we assume them just as 3 module Avalon, this will increase the score a little bit)
Chip Sales: 490000 chips (Equals about 2041.6 Units of Avalon machines with each 3 modules with 80chips per module, is 240chips per Avalon 3 modules)
Total Sales: 300 + 600 +600 + 2041.6 = 3541

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May 09, 2013, 04:35:52 PM
 #33

Batch 1 was 300 units. They delivered less than 300.
(reading the first line i had to correct you before reading the rest...)
Ok, about the rest... what should i say? BFL deserves a 2 (they have a product), Avalon a 3 (where is my order that should have shipped 2 months ago and why you had to create a separate smt line/why is the difficulty skyrocketing/why the continuos delay and bullshit[you started shipping back in april, you shipped 20 units, etc...], ASICMINER deserves a good rating, they have a good PR, and they ship in time. They are extremely overpriced, but it's always better than to pay and not to receive.

I removed the total score as it is misleading the topic, if we just could look at the overall performance (without priority of if or how much they have delivered till now) of this companies and their legal structures, that would be great.

By that criteria, Bernie Madoff wins. He had a rock solid legal structure and promised people massive returns for 2 decades.
This is why reviewers like Tom's Hardware actually wait until they have the hardware before they review it.
Until BFL can actually deliver, they should be dropped from this examination.

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May 09, 2013, 04:36:00 PM
 #34

I removed the total score as it is misleading the topic, if we just could look at the overall performance of this companies and their legal structures, that would great.
Do you want my scores? Ok... Will be funny.

Avalon

- Public Relations:  2 (because they update you once a month if they wish to)
- Customer Support: 2 (there is no customer support, you have to beg to have a reply from them)
- Terms & Conditions: 1 ("no bullshit terms and agreements")
- Price/Performance of Products: 8 (they have a good product for this market, good and reliable)
- Delivery reliability: 3 (they only shipped batch 1, their holiday+new smt line+sickness killed the batch 2/3 ROI, it will be negative)
- Assets of company: dunnow, i think that they are already working at their 28nm miner and most probably will be the winner of this races for the coming time


ButterflyLabs

- Public Relations:  6 (josh is a troller, shouldn't have never been the public face of a company. At least Yufi doesn't reply at all.)
- Customer Support: 8 (they have a ticket system, a phone number and they actually reply to you. Amazing!)
- Terms & Conditions: 3 (trying to convince customers that they can't have a refund while they are legally entitled to have one)
- Price/Performance of Products: 8 (whenever they prove to have their 60GH unit working properly, before that, it's all smoke.)
- Delivery reliability: 2 (they have yet to deliver, but i'm surprised that they proved to be able to deliver anything)
- Assets of company: dunnow, if they can start mass producing 65nm chips and hardware however they have a gold mine under their hands


ASICMiner

- Public Relations:  8 (every thuesday you know what happened, updates are never bfl-style and always with enough details)
- Customer Support: 8 (i saw some pdf about the blades with details of their functionality and i saw him answering personally for some customer issues)
- Terms & Conditions: 8 (you get what you paid for)
- Price/Performance of Products: 7 (110nm, but who cares as long as they work?)
- Delivery reliability: 9 (yes with the blades, we will see what happens with the USB miners)
- Assets of company: dunnow, it's hard to guess.

If we stand to these parameters, BFL beats Avalon. However, this is simply an heresy.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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May 09, 2013, 04:39:14 PM
 #35

I removed the total score as it is misleading the topic, if we just could look at the overall performance of this companies and their legal structures, that would great.
Do you want my scores? Ok... Will be funny.


No, I don't think he does. In fact I think the OP wants not to have scores. Of course in this numbers obsessed forum, that hope is pointless and in vain.

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May 09, 2013, 04:41:08 PM
 #36

I think BFL can't even really be judged until they actually, really, for-real start shipping products to customers (at least 10 units a day).

And  I don't mean win-a-big-shipping-bet shipping. Or shipping as advertising shipping (to bloggers). Shipping to people who paid for products that were supposed to be available many months ago. When will this happen? Even I thought it was going to be early May...
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May 09, 2013, 04:42:24 PM
 #37

I removed the total score as it is misleading the topic, if we just could look at the overall performance of this companies and their legal structures, that would great.
Do you want my scores? Ok... Will be funny.
No, I don't think he does. In fact I think the OP wants not to have scores. Of course in this numbers obsessed forum, that hope is pointless and in vain.
And he wrote it in plain english... Well, i enjoyed anyway giving marks on fake parameters...

On a more general way, Avalon and ASICMINER are good if you trusted them back in September last year, now you either get an overpriced product that will never ROI or you don't get anything at all.
BFL is everyone's guess, i don't think they will be able to ship in mass anytime soon, but if they clear their backlog before the end of the year, maybe one could consider to purchase from them.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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May 09, 2013, 06:22:52 PM
 #38

Clear to see this guy has a hand wrapped around BFL's .... and is furiously vibrating

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May 09, 2013, 06:49:02 PM
 #39

this topic should be locked
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May 09, 2013, 07:05:59 PM
 #40

I'm just wondering how this thread got so long without any of the typical BFL bashers chiming in with their opinions and "facts"

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