Coin competition is NOT healthy

[bootlace]

Altcoins are growing like gremlins these days, and frankly this non-sense is not helping the greater cause at all.

"BUT competition is healthy!" you might hear some say. Competition is not always healthy, especially not when one small fringe niche is cannibalizing itself instead of trying to get widespread adoption. Cryptocoins at this early stage behaves very much like a natural monopoly.

Definition of natural monopoly:

A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

Everything from network hashrate, to keeping the technology simple for mass public and newbies, to merchant adoption, to becoming a legit currency all suggest that at this point we should only have one cryptocurrency. Having many competitors detracts important resources and attributes from Bitcoin, and I dont need to remind anyone here that without Bitcoin none of these altcoins would be worth squat.

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

[1713252397]

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[1713252397]

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[1713252397]

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[1713252397]

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[1713252397]

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[xibeijan]

Actually, I think it's perfectly healthy.  I am not afraid of my coins losing value to new more competitive coins.  I will simply keep my stake in the best coins.

This is the free market at work, combined with open source software.  The coins are like organisms in a rapidly evolving natural selection process.  Only the fittest will survive, and these coins will have the best properties for an online currency.

Everyone knows crypto currency will be the mainstream.  The process by which we get there; however, may surprise you.

I personally like this natural selection process.  And, while the new ideas are brewing and evolving, it's only natural people will tinker and invest.

[Caesar V]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

[bootlace]

It is healthy.  It's called the free market combined with open source software.  The coins are like organisms in a rapidly evolving natural selection process.  Only the fittest will survive, and these coins will have the best properties for an online currency.

Everyone knows crypto currency will be the mainstream.  The process by which we get there; however, may surprise you.

I personally like this natural selection process.  And, while the new ideas are brewing and evolving, it's only natural people will tinker and invest.

Cryptocurrency becoming a mainstream success is NOT a given - we're talking about overthrowing the banking and financial system that is more powerful than any entity on this planet.

Normally I wouldn't mind what goes on here, but short-sighted and frankly moronic exchanges like Mtgox are lusting over the money that degenerate gamblers will bring into their system so don't mind hurting the overall credibility of Bitcoin by introducing some copy coins into their system - at a time when people are barely struggling to understand what Bitcoin is.

It's not as if these altcoins are providing any new legit innovation into the system - they are almost all get-rich-quick clones that serve no real purpose other than making a quick buck off the name of Bitcoin and the success that it's had.

[ymer]

In before someone says "this is a free market derpalerp"

[bootlace]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself. Of course the 'free market' will behave as it wishes...but wild free markets can also end up shooting itself in the foot and ruining the fun for everyone.

[matt608]

Bitcoin might not be the coin to go to the mainstream, though I am fond of it.  It has the most secure network and psychologically age = trust, and it is the oldest.     The 1-2 hour confirmation time is a problem though.  There's no need to worry about too many alt coins messing things up, the eyes of big investors in Silicon Valley have been caught as well as many others, the ball is rolling.  The interest from Silivon Valley investors is very important.  I was there in the blogging boom having some success with my blog networks and avidly following Tech Crunch.  That was about 6 years ago and now anyone can start a free blog somewhere from many different websites.  Blogs are now just a basic part of the internet, not to mention social media accounts are microblogging platforms, they are basically blogs too.  Cryptocurrencies will be like that, where pretty much every website you can login to you will be able to send cryptocurrncy to.  A web-wallet for cryptos will be a standard feature and different websites will compete for you to use them as a wallet. You'll be able to tip everyone for anything. There's no way of knowing which cryptos will make it, but diversifying is definitely a good idea.

[mubit]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself. Of course the 'free market' will behave as it wishes...but wild free markets can also end up shooting itself in the foot and ruining the fun for everyone.

good luck with that

[Caesar V]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself. Of course the 'free market' will behave as it wishes...but wild free markets can also end up shooting itself in the foot and ruining the fun for everyone.

If bitcoin is so great & innovative, it doesn't need "cryptocoin supporters" to hold its hand every time it crosses the street.

[AzureEngineer]

->Wants to support a decentralized P2P currency
->doesn't like decentralization

[TheSwede75]

Actually, I think it's perfectly healthy.  I am not afraid of my coins losing value to new more competitive coins.  I will simply keep my stake in the best coins.

This is the free market at work, combined with open source software.  The coins are like organisms in a rapidly evolving natural selection process.  Only the fittest will survive, and these coins will have the best properties for an online currency.

Everyone knows crypto currency will be the mainstream.  The process by which we get there; however, may surprise you.

I personally like this natural selection process.  And, while the new ideas are brewing and evolving, it's only natural people will tinker and invest.

Wow, a JR member that likes ALL the new altcoins. What a fucking surprise

[TheSwede75]

In before someone says "this is a free market derpalerp"

Ha ha,
Tool late. JR Member idiots are already defending (let me see if I can remember now) YakCoin, Royalcoinc, BitBar, BBQ Coin and.. fuck I forgot.
And that is only the new shitcoins launched this week!

[skyangel]

At the moment I see AltCoins as just something else to buy and sell with Bitcoins, just like goods on Silkroad. In that sense, it's good for Bitcoins.

[kokojie]

Bitcoin might not be the coin to go to the mainstream, though I am fond of it.  It has the most secure network and psychologically age = trust, and it is the oldest.     The 1-2 hour confirmation time is a problem though.  There's no need to worry about too many alt coins messing things up, the eyes of big investors in Silicon Valley have been caught as well as many others, the ball is rolling.  The interest from Silivon Valley investors is very important.  I was there in the blogging boom having some success with my blog networks and avidly following Tech Crunch.  That was about 6 years ago and now anyone can start a free blog somewhere from many different websites.  Blogs are now just a basic part of the internet, not to mention social media accounts are microblogging platforms, they are basically blogs too.  Cryptocurrencies will be like that, where pretty much every website you can login to you will be able to send cryptocurrncy to.  A web-wallet for cryptos will be a standard feature and different websites will compete for you to use them as a wallet. You'll be able to tip everyone for anything. There's no way of knowing which cryptos will make it, but diversifying is definitely a good idea.

Yep, I think we will standardize on a set of cryptos, much like btc-e.com and bter.com, the two sites are 60% compatible in terms of cryptos they support, this can easily be turned into a wallet service, and we can easily send each other cryptos we want to use. If we want to earn interest on our crypto, we keep coins in PPC or BTB. If we want fast confirmation, we do transactions in LTC/FTC etc...

[bigdaub]

BBQcoin is a little older than a week.

[vinne81]

At the moment I see AltCoins as just something else to buy and sell with Bitcoins, just like goods on Silkroad. In that sense, it's good for Bitcoins.

True, the more altcoins are created the more it becomes clear that, if one coin were to survive, it would most certainly be Bitcoin. When in doubt, you trade your shining altcoins for bitcoins so you can keep some of it's value. In before: a coin's value is not what it's worth in $ but what you will be able to do with it in the future. You can't / won't be able to do shit with any of these coins.

[kooke]

BBQcoin is a little older than a week.

Long live BBQcoin!

[bootlace]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself. Of course the 'free market' will behave as it wishes...but wild free markets can also end up shooting itself in the foot and ruining the fun for everyone.

If bitcoin is so great & innovative, it doesn't need "cryptocoin supporters" to hold its hand every time it crosses the street.

The competition here is the government benefiting financial/banking system where those in power control currency and commerce to an extent. It is not an easy battle to win and we are very much swimming against the tide - unlike other inconspicuous technologies that don't disrupt the power of the elite. This is a battle like no other, please don't compare to things like blogging...this is money we're talking about, what wars have been fought over for thousands of years.

[vinne81]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself. Of course the 'free market' will behave as it wishes...but wild free markets can also end up shooting itself in the foot and ruining the fun for everyone.

If bitcoin is so great & innovative, it doesn't need "cryptocoin supporters" to hold its hand every time it crosses the street.

The competition here is the government benefiting financial/banking system where those in power control currency and commerce to an extent. It is not an easy battle to win and we are very much swimming against the tide - unlike other inconspicuous technologies that don't disrupt the power of the elite. This is a battle like no other, please don't compare to things like blogging...this is money we're talking about, what wars have been fought over for thousands of years.

Wow you are some kind of knight for humanity, I kneel before thou!

[sokol815]

OP - communist?

[juicejoyce]

never mind , bitcoin is still bitcoin

[bitdwarf]

The existence of healthy alts discourages attacks on bitcoin for the sake of disrupting crypto-economy, because (loses aside) people would just move on to the next one. It's like being able to regrow lost limbs.

[bootlace]

OP - communist?

Don't like to be cornered into a certain tribe, but I'd say libertarianism is what I agree with the most

[flound1129]

Altcoins are growing like gremlins these days, and frankly this non-sense is not helping the greater cause at all.

"BUT competition is healthy!" you might hear some say. Competition is not always healthy, especially not when one small fringe niche is cannibalizing itself instead of trying to get widespread adoption. Cryptocoins at this early stage behaves very much like a natural monopoly.

Definition of natural monopoly:

A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

Everything from network hashrate, to keeping the technology simple for mass public and newbies, to merchant adoption, to becoming a legit currency all suggest that at this point we should only have one cryptocurrency. Having many competitors detracts important resources and attributes from Bitcoin, and I dont need to remind anyone here that without Bitcoin none of these altcoins would be worth squat.

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

I agree with you partially, but only to the extent that I think the recent rash of pump and dumps is delegitimizing crypto.

Competition from legit altcoins is welcome.  Pump and dump scams just harm the community and especially newbies.

[runam0k]

Royal Coin, YAC, etc - short term distractions for most and great opportunities for their creators to pre-mine or insta-mine.

Otherwise pointless.

I think once people realise there isn't a tonne of money to be made trading these things, the trend for a new weekly (daily now?) alt coin will die.

On the flip side, there have been some interesting developments e.g. Litecoin (faster), PPCoin (Proof of Stake, which may or may not prove useful), Ripple (more of a trading platform).

[El Cabron]

free market for the win!

how are you going to fight the free market, get the communists police? lulz

[willhash4food]

Altcoins are growing like gremlins these days, and frankly this non-sense is not helping the greater cause at all.

"BUT competition is healthy!" you might hear some say. Competition is not always healthy, especially not when one small fringe niche is cannibalizing itself instead of trying to get widespread adoption. Cryptocoins at this early stage behaves very much like a natural monopoly.

Definition of natural monopoly:

A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

Everything from network hashrate, to keeping the technology simple for mass public and newbies, to merchant adoption, to becoming a legit currency all suggest that at this point we should only have one cryptocurrency. Having many competitors detracts important resources and attributes from Bitcoin, and I dont need to remind anyone here that without Bitcoin none of these altcoins would be worth squat.

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

So basically you're:

1. Trying to be the sole definer of the "greater cause"

2. Trying to play captain obvious

But, the most important thing is:

YOU OFFER ZERO SOLUTIONS

Your post is pointless.

[bootlace]

Altcoins are growing like gremlins these days, and frankly this non-sense is not helping the greater cause at all.

"BUT competition is healthy!" you might hear some say. Competition is not always healthy, especially not when one small fringe niche is cannibalizing itself instead of trying to get widespread adoption. Cryptocoins at this early stage behaves very much like a natural monopoly.

Definition of natural monopoly:

A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

Everything from network hashrate, to keeping the technology simple for mass public and newbies, to merchant adoption, to becoming a legit currency all suggest that at this point we should only have one cryptocurrency. Having many competitors detracts important resources and attributes from Bitcoin, and I dont need to remind anyone here that without Bitcoin none of these altcoins would be worth squat.

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

So basically you're:

1. Trying to be the sole definer of the "greater cause"

2. Trying to play captain obvious

But, the most important thing is:

YOU OFFER ZERO SOLUTIONS

Your post is pointless.

Solution: stop feeding these trolls (buying/mining their coins) who create these scammy coins and take money/attention/resources/credibility away from Bitcoin.

[fenican]

The ASICS situation is a problem right now for Bitcoin.  A tiny handful of people who were lucky enough to receive preorders are reaping the lion's share of the mining profits.

It is understandable that the tens of thousands of GPU miners, who essentially built the currency and promoted its popularity over the years, want to move on to something new and ASICS resistant rather than reinvest in entirely new hardware from ASICS manufacturers of, in cases, questionable repute.

I would predict Litecoin will continue to rise in value relative to Bitcoin and may well overtake it

Not sure what role the copy-cat currencies play, if any - perhaps temporary coins that briefly facilitate lightning fast transactions; i.e. convert BTC to BBQ, move the coins QUICKLY on the BBQ network to another exchange, and then convert BBQ back to BTC.  That is a silly role, of course, but it is a useful one I have used LTC to move BTC since the confirms are much faster.

[Wilderness]

it's all good learning for cryptocoins anyway

[willhash4food]

Solution: stop feeding these trolls (buying/mining their coins) who create these scammy coins and take money/attention/resources/credibility away from Bitcoin.

That's not a solution. That's force fed opinion.

[GSnak]

The ASICS situation is a problem right now for Bitcoin.  A tiny handful of people who were lucky enough to receive preorders are reaping the lion's share of the mining profits.

It is understandable that the tens of thousands of GPU miners, who essentially built the currency and promoted its popularity over the years, want to move on to something new and ASICS resistant rather than reinvest in entirely new hardware from ASICS manufacturers of, in cases, questionable repute.

I would predict Litecoin will continue to rise in value relative to Bitcoin and may well overtake it

The cost of mining has nothing to do with the price of a coin. Only the demand. Miners simply drop off as they get priced out of the market.


As for taking attention away from bitcoin, most people I talk to have never heard of it. They're certainly never heard of YAC.

[memvola]

Arguments for natural selections tend to be fallacies. It doesn't need your support, it just happens.

And collective decisions is a part of the market, so unless someone is suggesting coercion, calling them regulators is blatant ignorance.

Only the fittest will survive, and these coins will have the best properties for an online currency.

What do you mean by fitness? Through natural selection, you get organisms that more efficiently adapt to the environment. Which environment you think these new organisms are adapting? What does the competition entail? What is "out there"?

Let me make a list of things where Bitcoin falls short, and which crypto-currency solves it:

• Instant confirmations: NONE (Ripple attempts to solve it but it's not a currency, and complements Bitcoin)
• Traceability: NONE (Who is bold enough to implement ZeroCoin so that Bitcoin can integrate it?)
• Environmental impact: PoS coins do this, and if it works, there is potential that Bitcoin will adopt it
• Volatility: NONE

As you can see, there is a huge room for development in this space, and some alternative currencies are being helpful to the development. But you aren't advancing anything by tuning and tweaking settings of a single software.

If you develop something that uses a different approach than Bitcoin (e.g. Ripple, Freicoin), or something that Bitcoin users won't likely prefer to be integrated (e.g. Namecoin, maybe PPCoin), then we can talk about real competition.

As it stands, I agree that the current "crypto-currency market" is cannibalizing itself.

So basically you're:

1. Trying to be the sole definer of the "greater cause"

I think his audience is people who adhere to this cause. If you don't care, why even respond?

YOU OFFER ZERO SOLUTIONS

Don't be a part of the problem. That's a solution.

[CaptainAK]

I think I can see both sides of this coin (so to speak).

Who wants crypto to succeed in the world at large?

1. The Developers
2. The Miners
3. The Altruists who who wants things for the good of the community.
4. The Revengist - those who just want to stick it to the government any way they can.


Who doesn't want it to succeed?

1. The government - it is nearly impossible for them to control (unless they threw a lot of resources at each and every currency and forcibly devalued them).
2. The bank - OMG!  No more fees!
3. The people who are frightened that little Susie or Brad will buy illegal items with this new currency (which they could have done all along with cash anyway).

The bottom line is competition IS healthy is MOST environments. In this environment though we are seeing so many new currencies come out that they are diluting the entire pool of resources. At one point every town in the US had it's own currency and that idea failed MISERABLY. They were forced to create the federal reserve so that their money would have value in all foreseeable locations.

And natural selection IS a good thing, but only if a new currency actually has a valuable, marketable, and usable feature that would make it a good candidate for survival. A dozen different coins all with different attributes will just make Crypto-Currency as a whole less attractive for adoption into the global market. Who wants to have to sort through 10-20 different coins, just to pay with a currency that happens to have a feature that is valuable with THIS transaction?

Is any currency perfect? Nope. Since perfect means different things to different people. For right now, the end result is to get enough of one coin to trade it into BTC, so that it can be used (almost) universally.

The issue with all of the current new cryptocoins is that they seem to be coming out so fast, that they resemble a Get-Rich-Quick scheme...

1. Invent an item.
2. Find gullible investors to buy it from you.
3. Get rich.
4. Laugh while value drops.
5. Move on to next thing or buy back at low prices and resell again.
6. Repeat steps 1-5.

So in all fairness, everyone is right...

Except the trolls, of course

[Walter Rothbard]

The Myth of Natural Monopoly

"The theory of natural monopoly is an economic fiction. No such thing as a 'natural' monopoly has ever existed."

[Walter Rothbard]

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

What is this "we" business?

[digitalindustry]

Actually, I think it's perfectly healthy.  I am not afraid of my coins losing value to new more competitive coins.  I will simply keep my stake in the best coins.

This is the free market at work, combined with open source software.  The coins are like organisms in a rapidly evolving natural selection process.  Only the fittest will survive, and these coins will have the best properties for an online currency.

Everyone knows crypto currency will be the mainstream.  The process by which we get there; however, may surprise you.

I personally like this natural selection process.  And, while the new ideas are brewing and evolving, it's only natural people will tinker and invest.

+ 1

lol at the logo

[willhash4food]

I think his audience is people who adhere to this cause. If you don't care, why even respond?

Protesting (rallying without solution) is a waste of time.

Don't be a part of the problem. That's a solution.

Nonsense. The "please stop" approach only works when you have authority.

[digitalindustry]

A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

a couple of tiny little problems - you completely contradicted yourself, you posted the definition of a "Natural monopoly" , too , ah? sound smart?

an example of a natural monopoly type effect is say "Apple iPhone" (pre iPhone 5 and Samsung)

so you are saying that this alt coin spam is in effect a "Natural monopoly" ..

i'll just get you to explain that for me ok...

[Walter Rothbard]

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself.

"I don't trust people to act in their own best interest.  Instead of trying to understand their reasoning, I'll use disrespectful terms for their decision, like "cannibalizing," to try to pressure them to do what I think they should be doing."

[digitalindustry]

So lets get Bitcoin into the mainstream first, then we can afford the luxury of making tweaks and alternate coins.

What is this "we" business?

lol +1

[xibeijan]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself. Of course the 'free market' will behave as it wishes...but wild free markets can also end up shooting itself in the foot and ruining the fun for everyone.

FUD

[anderl]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself. Of course the 'free market' will behave as it wishes...but wild free markets can also end up shooting itself in the foot and ruining the fun for everyone.

DO it by improving bitcoin.  The reason there is competition is because bitcoin does not provide everything people are looking for.  You can thank its weakness to ASIC chips for that.  It was supposed to be community drive but its been it has been hijacked by private groups that have scammed money of of the community to build our miners that never come out.  Meanwhile ASICs seem to magically be hashing the hell out of Bitcoin.

The alts are actually HELPING bitcoin by forcing it to either adapt or die. 

[elessdai]

I think coin competition is not healthy just for competition itself. If don't see how a copy paste coin from bitcoin or litecoin could survive, it's not just change in the reward and block time that will change something enough to make it live. If a copy of bitcoin come, ASIC jump in doing pump and dump and leave with very high difficulty. Same thing happen with new scrypt coin when all gpu jump in to do easy money.

[memvola]

Don't be a part of the problem. That's a solution.

Nonsense. The "please stop" approach only works when you have authority.

Nope.

People discuss what's the best all the time. Reasonable people derive their conclusions from such discussions. Other people can't produce results anyway.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself.

"I don't trust people to act in their own best interest.  Instead of trying to understand their reasoning, I'll use disrespectful terms for their decision, like "cannibalizing," to try to pressure them to do what I think they should be doing."

Disrespecting the market? Wow, that's really bad...

The word "cannibalizing" is very appropriate there, regardless of whether s/he's right or wrong.

[atcsecure]

The ASICS situation is a problem right now for Bitcoin.  A tiny handful of people who were lucky enough to receive preorders are reaping the lion's share of the mining profits.

It is understandable that the tens of thousands of GPU miners, who essentially built the currency and promoted its popularity over the years, want to move on to something new and ASICS resistant rather than reinvest in entirely new hardware from ASICS manufacturers of, in cases, questionable repute.

I would predict Litecoin will continue to rise in value relative to Bitcoin and may well overtake it

Not sure what role the copy-cat currencies play, if any - perhaps temporary coins that briefly facilitate lightning fast transactions; i.e. convert BTC to BBQ, move the coins QUICKLY on the BBQ network to another exchange, and then convert BBQ back to BTC.  That is a silly role, of course, but it is a useful one I have used LTC to move BTC since the confirms are much faster.

Bingo - this a major issue - the ASIC card has had a negative impact on the miners who have been supporting the actual network

[atcsecure]

This is hilarious.. There is no other way to put it - you are trying to regulate coins.

This is a free market and in a free market competition is very healthy.

I'm just trying to get cryptocoin supporters to join forces except of cannibalizing itself. Of course the 'free market' will behave as it wishes...but wild free markets can also end up shooting itself in the foot and ruining the fun for everyone.

DO it by improving bitcoin.  The reason there is competition is because bitcoin does not provide everything people are looking for.  You can thank its weakness to ASIC chips for that.  It was supposed to be community drive but its been it has been hijacked by private groups that have scammed money of of the community to build our miners that never come out.  Meanwhile ASICs seem to magically be hashing the hell out of Bitcoin.

The alts are actually HELPING bitcoin by forcing it to either adapt or die. 

Something is hashing the hell out of bitcoin thats for sure

[anderl]

I think coin competition is not healthy just for competition itself. If don't see how a copy paste coin from bitcoin or litecoin could survive, it's not just change in the reward and block time that will change something enough to make it live. If a copy of bitcoin come, ASIC jump in doing pump and dump and leave with very high difficulty. Same thing happen with new scrypt coin when all gpu jump in to do easy money.

I'll give you $500 and week to either buy an ASIC or a GPU.  Tell me which one you stand a chance of obtaining.  GPUs are not ASICs.  GPUs have a low barrier of entry.  Sure you are trounced by the farmers but that is the free market.  If you can grow your GPU farm from 1 to many by being better than the existing farms you win in the free market.  ASICs have blocked the road for the average user.  You need $20k and a prayer or an established GPU farm that will get you next to nothing in BTC.  Bitcoin needs an upgrade.

[bootlace]

A natural monopoly by contrast is a condition on the cost-technology of an industry whereby it is most efficient (involving the lowest long-run average cost) for production to be concentrated in a single firm.

a couple of tiny little problems - you completely contradicted yourself, you posted the definition of a "Natural monopoly" , too , ah? sound smart?

an example of a natural monopoly type effect is say "Apple iPhone" (pre iPhone 5 and Samsung)

so you are saying that this alt coin spam is in effect a "Natural monopoly" ..

i'll just get you to explain that for me ok...

I copy/pasted the definition from Wikipedia, not trying to be smart at all.. I wouldn't consider the Apple iPhone a natural monopoly back in the day, because them having control of the full smartphone market is not beneficial for the users as they can charge more, stop being innovative, get lazy etc..

For a new internet currency like Bitcoin - it is not very useful to have many competing clones because the purpose of a currency is to be able to conduct trade on as broad a market as possible. Imagine if new forms of the internet popped up every day that required a new form of computer, new DNS system, new usage method, new software to run it. And imagine this happened around the time when the general public weren't even convinced at the necessity of even having something called the internet. Then you might be able to envision what Bitcoin is facing.

[markm]

Mining should tend toward zero profit.

It is the kind of marginal industry in which who-ever can do it more efficiently can eke out what little profit there is and less-efficient operations are doomed.

ASICs are needed, what is killing us is they are taking too long. We were supposed to have them last october. Investment in the mining sector was suppressed massively by having to keep on waiting a little longer and a little longer and a little longer for ASICs that never came.

Now Scrypt FPGAs are possibly on the horizon, hopefully they will be able to ramp up to massively massive mass-production FAST as soon as a viable design is proven by a working prototype. Otherwise Scrypt could find itself in the same suppressed-investment situation while miners wait a little longer and a little longer and a little longer for FPGAs instead of deploying more GPUs.

We need fast ramp up to truly massive mass-production down pat so each new generation of mining hardware can be in miners' hands faster.

-MarkM-

[collapse]

Free market, free result,...

[mr_random]

People are already starting to ignore coins which don't offer anything new. Royal Coin looks like it gained virtually no traction from it's launch. It's getting harder. A coin has to have a new idea now or 'twist' to get momentum... YACoin did that with the cpu mining thing. Not buying any though, I don't see the cpu mining thing lasting long

[Walter Rothbard]

People are already starting to ignore coins which don't offer anything new.

Oh, I've been doing that for awhile, now!

[markm]

People are already starting to ignore coins which don't offer anything new. Royal Coin looks like it gained virtually no traction from it's launch. It's getting harder. A coin has to have a new idea now or 'twist' to get momentum... YACoin did that with the cpu mining thing. Not buying any though, I don't see the cpu mining thing lasting long

CPU mining has lasted years already.

There has maybe even never been a time when there was not at least one, and usually several, coins that a CPU miner could rake in quite nicely.

Maybe though now that BBQcoin has started to pay off those "early adopters" who mined it with CPUs the last year or two it might get harder to mine the remaining coins that are still currently excellent havens for CPU miners.

Nice thing is though that by the very act of coming back to those chains and driving their difficulty up too high for CPU miners, GPU miners precipitate the payoff era, the era BBQcoin has started into, when all those long long months of CPU mining finally pay off handsomely for all the CPU miners.

So actually, CPU mining has been doing really really well all this time. The only reason it might not have seemed that way is that the less attention the larger miners pay to a chain the more lucrative it is for CPU miners. So of course the CPU miners have a vested interest in going for long long long periods of time without the kind of publicity that might bring the larger miners to their chain prematurely. (Premature being a subjective thing, each CPU miner having maybe a different target number of coins they want to mine before that happens and a different number of coins already mined.)

-MarkM-

[willhash4food]

Nope.

People discuss what's the best all the time. Reasonable people derive their conclusions from such discussions. Other people can't produce results anyway.

"Reasonable" is a term relative to the individual and does not apply here. What conclusions one person thinks is reasonable, another may not.

Not everyone thinks in the manner that the OP does. Attempting to sway the masses purely out of words (no specific solutions) is on the same level as Sunday school preacher. Pointless.

[Simran]

There are some factors that make it healthy and unhealthy. It's healthy because it sparks ideas and allows others to share them(Even though most of the new one's have the minimal idea put into them). the unhealthy part is that it affects adoption by merchants. Merchants are one of the essential aspects that make a coin successful. There are too many options, and causes confusion to the merchants being able to choose a coin they'd like to accept. With that, it isn't about the preference of the merchant simply because the merchant might like a coin that has no traction and isn't going to get more sales, that's why they choose a coin with more stability. Another risk the merchant takes is the price falling, with all the coins, nearly all the prices for every coin have been high volatile. This strays merchants away from accepting cryptos.

[markm]

All the merchant has to choose is which payment-processor to use.

An easy solution to any concern about there being lots of fiat and crypto currencies in the world is to choose the payment processor that processes the largest number of varieties of fiat and crypto currencies.

Because ultimately the merchant just wants to get their normal everyday money they normally every day get for their product, without caring what the heck the end-user uses as currency to convince the payment processor to give the merchant what the merchant wants.

-MarkM-

[HorseRider]

Human beings get ill frequently.  don't worry. accept the truth.

[sunsofdust]

Free market, free result,...

+1

Economics 101

[BBQKorv]

I think the competition is pretty healthy. Only the strong ones will survive and that means we don't need to watch the weak ones barely moving anywhere. This problem will solve itself in a little while.

We have already learned quite a bit from the recent coin releases, haven't we? Maybe next coins will get the launch done in a proper way and avoid all the problems and accusitions we have seen over and over again with the current offerings. Brainless copycatting doesn't bring any extra value to the community, and hopefully dies soon.

Now it's time for new innovation and ideas.

[milly6]

Actually, I think it's perfectly healthy.  I am not afraid of my coins losing value to new more competitive coins.  I will simply keep my stake in the best coins.

This is the free market at work, combined with open source software.  The coins are like organisms in a rapidly evolving natural selection process.  Only the fittest will survive, and these coins will have the best properties for an online currency.

Everyone knows crypto currency will be the mainstream.  The process by which we get there; however, may surprise you.

I personally like this natural selection process.  And, while the new ideas are brewing and evolving, it's only natural people will tinker and invest.

+1

[elessdai]

I think coin competition is not healthy just for competition itself. If don't see how a copy paste coin from bitcoin or litecoin could survive, it's not just change in the reward and block time that will change something enough to make it live. If a copy of bitcoin come, ASIC jump in doing pump and dump and leave with very high difficulty. Same thing happen with new scrypt coin when all gpu jump in to do easy money.

I'll give you $500 and week to either buy an ASIC or a GPU.  Tell me which one you stand a chance of obtaining.  GPUs are not ASICs.  GPUs have a low barrier of entry.  Sure you are trounced by the farmers but that is the free market.  If you can grow your GPU farm from 1 to many by being better than the existing farms you win in the free market.  ASICs have blocked the road for the average user.  You need $20k and a prayer or an established GPU farm that will get you next to nothing in BTC.  Bitcoin needs an upgrade.

I wasn't complaining about asic or big gpu farm. I mean a coin with no innovation is easy to kill, a good example is FTC last time I checked next difficulty retarget was 20 days... with block each 16 minute. It seem like a temporary or constant failure for a coin supposed to be as fast as litecoin and it was not done by few big gpu farm but by the mass of gpu miner.