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Author Topic: RE-EDIT**EDIT*: How to SAFELY sell Bitcoins on eBay  (Read 21367 times)
MiningUnited
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May 10, 2013, 12:32:08 AM
 #21

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... and end up -$50 to -$100 after chargebacks.

....and end up with a frozen or restricted account.
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johnniewalker
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May 10, 2013, 01:18:08 AM
 #22

It isn't scamproof (nothing is except maybe shipping goods AFTER getting bitcoins Smiley.

ebay allows dispute "not as described".  Ebay will allow the buyer to send the goods back and then will get a full refund.

Pay
Receive
Send photo
Transfer BTC
Dispute
Get money back.


Buyers have been abusing "not as described disputes" for years.  Usually it justs the seller the sale (plus expense and hassle of return, funds on hold, etc).
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/How-to-use-PayPal-Archive/Buyers-abusing-quot-not-as-described-quot-to-force-refund-when/td-p/15414

That's why they send you a message and you take a screenshot on blockchain. If the customer opens a case that item was "not as described" you have those to show eBay.

Example:
"Dispute: Not a described. Seller claimed he would fund the cert with x Bitcoins but he did not.  I wish to return this worthless cert as it is not as described.  Please help me PayPal I feel the seller is trying to take advantage of people.  I will gladly pay return shipping"

I feel it is dangerous to be advertising a "safe" method of selling on ebay, especially in the noob forum.  While it certainly is safER than do an online transaction it is hardly safe.  Even if you win the dispute, the scammer can just have the credit card company chargeback the funding transaction, and PayPal will reverse it on you in response.  Buyer's protection doesn't cover chargebacks related to "not as described".

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11.5 Items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller protection. The following are examples of items/transactions not eligible for PayPal Seller protection.
Claims or Chargebacks for Significantly Not as Described.
Items that you deliver in person, including in connection with In-Store Checkout.
Intangible items, including Digital Goods, and services.
PayPal Direct Payments.
 Virtual Terminal Payments.
PayPal Business Payments.
Items that are not shipped to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page. If you originally ship the item to the recipient's shipping address on the Transaction Details Page but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of
shipping and delivery.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full#11. Protection for Sellers.
Does the screenshot of the transaction on blockchain with timestamp mean nothing? You can think through what if scenarios all day, I'll be selling my bitcoins on ebay for literally almost 200% markup.
johnniewalker
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May 10, 2013, 01:22:09 AM
 #23

I am not pulling anyone's leg here. Of course its always good to do your due-diligence, but no matter what the method there is always a possibility of being scammed. This method seriously minimizes it. There is a huge potential to be scammed for any transaction you do on here...so whats the answer to that? Its anyone's right to think what they want of this method, but I have sold (I don't know how many coins) $2000 worth of bitcoins using this method and never had an issue. If thats enough assurance for you, use this method. If you want to remain paranoid and think up every possible "what if" thats fine, too.

EDIT: Also, I have had people order one of my listings, and then when they see how it is they will receive their coins they ask me to cancel the transaction (likely would-be scammers).
cptdome1
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May 10, 2013, 02:15:59 AM
 #24

why are ebay bitcoins selling at such a high markup?  is it all due to risk of chargebacks?? what is ebay/paypal total fee % nowadays??  I cant picture spending $150+ for 1btc, I would rather just try CL or something.
hengry5588
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May 10, 2013, 02:43:16 AM
 #25

I've wondered about this.  So you haven't had much trouble selling these on eBay?   ???No one has attempted to scam you or dispute the charge?
SgtSpike
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May 10, 2013, 04:02:26 AM
 #26

why are ebay bitcoins selling at such a high markup?  is it all due to risk of chargebacks?? what is ebay/paypal total fee % nowadays??  I cant picture spending $150+ for 1btc, I would rather just try CL or something.
Because it's easy to buy them.  Think about the hell people have been through trying to buy Bitcoins through Coinbase, or MtGox.  People WANT Bitcoins, but they can't figure out how to actually buy them legitimately without waiting for two months or having to send everything but the kitchen sink as verification for their account.
levi
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May 10, 2013, 04:04:44 AM
 #27

Hmm thanks for the info, looks like it's worth a shot.

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pwi
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May 10, 2013, 05:10:22 AM
 #28

I no longer sell anything on ebay.  I was flagged, questioned, had auctions cancelled, and was forced to submit to a 'digital' body cavity search that would make even the most adventurous TSA agent blush; all for auctioning an unopened Windows 8 RT tablet under retail.  No smartasses; I wasn't flagged because it was an RT tablet  Tongue

They didn't like the buy it now price undercutting power sellers.  They wanted clarification regarding certain pieces of the listing's content.  Of course they waited until 1 hour before the auction closed to let me know.  Having sold a few items via ebay; I let them know in no uncertain terms that my business as a consumer and vendor will be taken elsewhere.  I don't think they've noticed that I haven't logged in since.

Somewhere along the internet experience we all got this idea that we need some "trusted" intermediary to facilitate transactions between consenting adults.  All this trust has come at a great cost of both finances in the form of fees and chargebacks; and privacy - ebay shouldn't know I like used adult toys, nitrous cartridges, Bitcoin, and My Little Pony.  Google doesn't even know about my Pinkie Pie fetish...yet.

What ever happened to the internet of the 90's when I could send a stranger cash in the mail and they would send me a "like-new" novelty vibrating Rabbit I could be proud to give good old Mom on Mother's Day?  I know; I'm getting old.  I also know that I'm sick Grin

I am PWI and I don't do Ebay.  I prefer the YOUandMEbay - the BTC way.

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Darktongue
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May 10, 2013, 06:51:51 AM
 #29

Toy have been lucky.  eBay is a hard ass when it comes ro digital goods.  I believe whole hearted we can thank the slew of "internet marketers" and the backing bookoo amount of scam ebooks for this.  Furthermore eBay freaks over digital items further due to copyright issues. In the end lot's of legitimate sellers suffer. No matter how you do this btc is digital goods.  PayPal knows this and rightfully so does eBay. 

All someone has to do at the very least is play stupid.  You could call it the not as disclosed card being pulled but in any case it's a little more effective for a sammer or hell even a moron to back out of the charge if he plays a victim of his or her own ignorance.  So many people have tried this.  Some are as said about you. .. pretty luck driven.  But to what end? Sure you are selling small amounts and do not feel worried.  But what of the dipshit that heats you up for a few btc .5 at a time.  You lose more then btc and shipping.  Add your fees your own seller rep and hell maybe your accounts as a whole.  That's a  rather hard gamble.
miningusa
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May 10, 2013, 07:03:42 AM
 #30

There are quite a few holes in this method even if it has worked for you it won't work for long.
johnniewalker
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May 10, 2013, 08:14:56 AM
 #31

There are quite a few holes in this method even if it has worked for you it won't work for long.
Explain them to me
Tripozide
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May 10, 2013, 10:20:06 AM
 #32

Great! I've been looking for a way to do this Smiley

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Lethos
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May 10, 2013, 10:23:45 AM
 #33

If people want easy, just use localbitcoins. Now that is easy to buy/sell.
Hell of a lot faster and tiny fees and little to no mark up.

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btcdrak
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May 10, 2013, 11:11:16 AM
 #34

I wanted to write up this guide, but wasn't sure where to put it. I decided here since it offers instruction, and I know not just newbie members check this board.

Anyways, I want to share with you a completely safe way to sell bitcoins on eBay. eBay and PayPal are covered in an aura of taboo in the bitcoin world. That's because-obviously-scammers use those methods to steal from you. And, both PayPal and eBay like the customer, so if you sell bitcoins for PayPal, you get back a nice fat chargeback.
The problem with selling bitcoins on eBay or for PayPal, by strictly sending them electronically is that there is no physical aspect involved. THAT is why PayPal sides with the buyer-they aren't used to selling digital goods, just tangible things. If you sell Bitcoins for PayPal, on eBay or elsewhere, you thus have to have something tangible involved-and if it has tracking, its virtually impossible to get a chargeback.
I have sold a lot of bitcoins on eBay. This is the way I do it: I simply print out a bitcoin bill (go to bitaddress.org, hit "bulk wallet" and under "generate", put the number of keypairs you would like made. 1 bitcoin bill=1 keypair. Then, go to printcoins.com, hit "print your own" and fill in the initial fields with whatever you want-they're just for fun-I put "Bank of Johnniewalker". In the big dialog box, copy and paste the entire keypair from bitaddress.org. Pick a design, then hit "Generate PDF of bills". If you have thicker paper, customers would be more impressed, but if not don't worry, just print the bill.)
NOW you have something tangible. If you sell through eBay, you can mail w/tracking for $1.69.
You tell the customer that once the bill is made, you destroy all data pertaining to it (and you do-don't be a scammer). Thus, once they receive the bitcoin bill (still it has 0 balance) they need to send you a message with the public address of the bill. Once they give it to you, send the funds to the address, go to blockchain.info, enter the public address, and take a screenshot for confirmation of funds sent.

.....aaaaaaand you're done!

Actually, you will find selling small amount of coin 0.1 for example works OK by Paypal and instant. It's too small to bother scamming. Larger amounts, you need an unreversable payment method - basically bank transfer.
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May 10, 2013, 11:17:03 AM
 #35

I can't even tell you how many coins I've sold on there. Usually I do it in like .1, .5 increments. Its GOOD money. People on eBay know about bitcoins, but thats about all they know. They have no idea how to "get" bitcoins. So, they have no problem paying a premium to buy into something they otherwise wouldn't have the knowledge to do.
  Could you show us one of your ebay listings?

"Es ist kein Zeichen geistiger Gesundheit, gut angepasst an eine kranke Gesellschaft zu sein."
johnniewalker
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May 11, 2013, 12:39:15 AM
 #36

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221223316866?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1559.l2649
bitcoin_bob
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May 11, 2013, 01:47:06 AM
 #37

I suspect that sometime soon, its going to be a violation of eBay policy to trade in Bitcoins......

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May 11, 2013, 02:36:45 AM
 #38

From the buyers side where is a safe and reasonable way to buy BTC for / USD

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tillou
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May 11, 2013, 02:55:43 AM
 #39

Well, I like the idea of waiting to fund it until the buyer confirms they have received it.  Seems like a pretty fool-proof way of doing it TBH.
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May 11, 2013, 08:43:00 AM
 #40

  Thanks for the link, I think thats a good modus operandi.
 Why dont you sell preloaded bills anymore?

"Es ist kein Zeichen geistiger Gesundheit, gut angepasst an eine kranke Gesellschaft zu sein."
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