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Author Topic: [Unofficial] Coinpot.co - new microwallet  (Read 99929 times)
sunk818
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April 06, 2021, 03:52:25 PM
 #3161

And did you refer yourself for the other accounts? Btc referring LTC account etc? I think you're supposed to have one account only.

He said one sentence, and I quoted all of it. It is obvious that someone is abusing the system. My point is that IP addresses can be shared by a massive number of people, as can email provider. So you make an account, and at the same time someone else is creating a bunch of fake accounts (and there's probably never a time when someone isn't making a bunch of fake accounts). And bam, now your account is yet another one created by the scammer, and you have no way to prove otherwise.

Regardless of whether you think that I personally am lying, this type of fraud detection is fairly likely to create false positives at some point or another. When that happens, you're automatically a scammer and any attempt to defend yourself is proof of your guilt (this is known as a kafka trap).
So I'm not getting any of my coins regardless what I do.
Let me know what venture they start next, so I can stay away from that!

Very sneaky, how can I prove that I only have ever had one account of each currency connected to their faucets? I wonder how many others have received the same response.

Is this your way of saying that you had 5 coinpot accounts, one for each cryptocurrency?

1) BTC
2) LTC
3) DASH
4) DOGE
5) BCH
Technically not, I never had any DASH, but yes, one of each of the others.
I have been using the mooncoins and bonusbitcoin from when you could claim more than 500 satoshis each time.

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Tiber727
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April 06, 2021, 05:55:13 PM
 #3162

😂 Protonmail accounts get created all the time sure but how many happen to claim coinpot too?

Is that your argument? That there are 0 people who use Protonmail and are not scammers? My point was scammers are creating Coinpot accounts all the time because they don't care if some get banned. They can make 100 more. We don't even know if they only do this to Protonmail accounts.

You are only looking at part of what they said. They said there were a huge number of Protonmail accounts all signed up on the same day from the same IP range. It doesn't matter if was a different email service. They are just stating 3 common factors of a large number of accounts that far beyond coincidence and it is obvious abuse.

He said one sentence, and I quoted all of it. It is obvious that someone is abusing the system. My point is that IP addresses can be shared by a massive number of people, as can email provider. So you make an account, and at the same time someone else is creating a bunch of fake accounts (and there's probably never a time when someone isn't making a bunch of fake accounts). And bam, now your account is yet another one created by the scammer, and you have no way to prove otherwise.

Regardless of whether you think that I personally am lying, this type of fraud detection is fairly likely to create false positives at some point or another. When that happens, you're automatically a scammer and any attempt to defend yourself is proof of your guilt (this is known as a kafka trap).

i think you are massively missing the point here
its not that you use protonmail - of course this is a fairly common email provider
its not that you use a particular ip address - of course they can be shared, especially ip ranges
and its not about the date that you make an account
its the very unlikely combination of all 3.
its very, very unlikely that you would have by coincidence created a protonmail account on the same day that a bot created loads of other protonmail accounts from within the same ip range
i mean, its possible - but massively unlikely - even though the 3 individual parts (date/ip/email) are each plausible

and we dont know from what that email says, perhaps they have additional information too

I'm aware of the point. My point is that their point is wrong. People are bad at statistics. They'll play a game like XCOM where they have a 5% chance of failure when taking an action, then get mad when the 5% happens because they mentally shortcut 95% to 100%.
Here's a follow-up email: https://imgur.com/a/I8vmwwW

Coinpot says they typically get 3-4 Protonmail accounts a day. On the day my account got created, 3200 got created. So ~3-4 of those accounts are probably legit. A single IP address can represent anywhere from 1 to millions of people. He was looking at an IP range, not a single one, so multiply that by however many individual addresses.

The odds can therefore be stated as, "For each of those 3-4 legit accounts, choose let's say 10 million random people. What are the odds that there is at least 1 Coinpot scammer within those 10 million?" Not that bad, actually. That's 10 million rolls of the dice! It's at least not outside the range of possibility.

Let's also not forget that scammers are not an isolated incident. This whole thing may have played out in similar fashion at other times, with the same or other email providers.

People have this inbuilt trust in authority. Coinpot didn't take *their* money, so Coinpot must be competent and trustworthy and anyone who says otherwise must be a liar. I know that I didn't create 3200 accounts, so I necessarily have to start with the conclusion that Coinpot is either mistaken or lying. I assume mistakes before malevolence, so the simplest solution is that the unlikely HAS happened.
grahamlyons
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April 07, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
 #3163

😂 Protonmail accounts get created all the time sure but how many happen to claim coinpot too?

Is that your argument? That there are 0 people who use Protonmail and are not scammers? My point was scammers are creating Coinpot accounts all the time because they don't care if some get banned. They can make 100 more. We don't even know if they only do this to Protonmail accounts.

You are only looking at part of what they said. They said there were a huge number of Protonmail accounts all signed up on the same day from the same IP range. It doesn't matter if was a different email service. They are just stating 3 common factors of a large number of accounts that far beyond coincidence and it is obvious abuse.

He said one sentence, and I quoted all of it. It is obvious that someone is abusing the system. My point is that IP addresses can be shared by a massive number of people, as can email provider. So you make an account, and at the same time someone else is creating a bunch of fake accounts (and there's probably never a time when someone isn't making a bunch of fake accounts). And bam, now your account is yet another one created by the scammer, and you have no way to prove otherwise.

Regardless of whether you think that I personally am lying, this type of fraud detection is fairly likely to create false positives at some point or another. When that happens, you're automatically a scammer and any attempt to defend yourself is proof of your guilt (this is known as a kafka trap).

i think you are massively missing the point here
its not that you use protonmail - of course this is a fairly common email provider
its not that you use a particular ip address - of course they can be shared, especially ip ranges
and its not about the date that you make an account
its the very unlikely combination of all 3.
its very, very unlikely that you would have by coincidence created a protonmail account on the same day that a bot created loads of other protonmail accounts from within the same ip range
i mean, its possible - but massively unlikely - even though the 3 individual parts (date/ip/email) are each plausible

and we dont know from what that email says, perhaps they have additional information too

I'm aware of the point. My point is that their point is wrong. People are bad at statistics. They'll play a game like XCOM where they have a 5% chance of failure when taking an action, then get mad when the 5% happens because they mentally shortcut 95% to 100%.
Here's a follow-up email:

Coinpot says they typically get 3-4 Protonmail accounts a day. On the day my account got created, 3200 got created. So ~3-4 of those accounts are probably legit. A single IP address can represent anywhere from 1 to millions of people. He was looking at an IP range, not a single one, so multiply that by however many individual addresses.

The odds can therefore be stated as, "For each of those 3-4 legit accounts, choose let's say 10 million random people. What are the odds that there is at least 1 Coinpot scammer within those 10 million?" Not that bad, actually. That's 10 million rolls of the dice! It's at least not outside the range of possibility.

Let's also not forget that scammers are not an isolated incident. This whole thing may have played out in similar fashion at other times, with the same or other email providers.

People have this inbuilt trust in authority. Coinpot didn't take *their* money, so Coinpot must be competent and trustworthy and anyone who says otherwise must be a liar. I know that I didn't create 3200 accounts, so I necessarily have to start with the conclusion that Coinpot is either mistaken or lying. I assume mistakes before malevolence, so the simplest solution is that the unlikely HAS happened.


you are still missing the point
this isnt a computer game with a simple 5% probability
it is the combination of at least 3 different factors (date/ip/email) that makes this extremely improbable
im not for 1 minute saying you a cheater/fraud (i dont know any more than you do)  or accusing you of anything sinister
but even with your wonky math above the chances are at least 1 in a 1000 or more like 1 in a million that this could happen
so they should check each of those 3200 accounts manually to see if each is possibly (1 in a million chance) a genuine account?
Tiber727
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April 07, 2021, 02:46:08 AM
 #3164

😂 Protonmail accounts get created all the time sure but how many happen to claim coinpot too?

Is that your argument? That there are 0 people who use Protonmail and are not scammers? My point was scammers are creating Coinpot accounts all the time because they don't care if some get banned. They can make 100 more. We don't even know if they only do this to Protonmail accounts.

You are only looking at part of what they said. They said there were a huge number of Protonmail accounts all signed up on the same day from the same IP range. It doesn't matter if was a different email service. They are just stating 3 common factors of a large number of accounts that far beyond coincidence and it is obvious abuse.

He said one sentence, and I quoted all of it. It is obvious that someone is abusing the system. My point is that IP addresses can be shared by a massive number of people, as can email provider. So you make an account, and at the same time someone else is creating a bunch of fake accounts (and there's probably never a time when someone isn't making a bunch of fake accounts). And bam, now your account is yet another one created by the scammer, and you have no way to prove otherwise.

Regardless of whether you think that I personally am lying, this type of fraud detection is fairly likely to create false positives at some point or another. When that happens, you're automatically a scammer and any attempt to defend yourself is proof of your guilt (this is known as a kafka trap).

i think you are massively missing the point here
its not that you use protonmail - of course this is a fairly common email provider
its not that you use a particular ip address - of course they can be shared, especially ip ranges
and its not about the date that you make an account
its the very unlikely combination of all 3.
its very, very unlikely that you would have by coincidence created a protonmail account on the same day that a bot created loads of other protonmail accounts from within the same ip range
i mean, its possible - but massively unlikely - even though the 3 individual parts (date/ip/email) are each plausible

and we dont know from what that email says, perhaps they have additional information too

I'm aware of the point. My point is that their point is wrong. People are bad at statistics. They'll play a game like XCOM where they have a 5% chance of failure when taking an action, then get mad when the 5% happens because they mentally shortcut 95% to 100%.
Here's a follow-up email: https://imgur.com/a/I8vmwwW

Coinpot says they typically get 3-4 Protonmail accounts a day. On the day my account got created, 3200 got created. So ~3-4 of those accounts are probably legit. A single IP address can represent anywhere from 1 to millions of people. He was looking at an IP range, not a single one, so multiply that by however many individual addresses.

The odds can therefore be stated as, "For each of those 3-4 legit accounts, choose let's say 10 million random people. What are the odds that there is at least 1 Coinpot scammer within those 10 million?" Not that bad, actually. That's 10 million rolls of the dice! It's at least not outside the range of possibility.

Let's also not forget that scammers are not an isolated incident. This whole thing may have played out in similar fashion at other times, with the same or other email providers.

People have this inbuilt trust in authority. Coinpot didn't take *their* money, so Coinpot must be competent and trustworthy and anyone who says otherwise must be a liar. I know that I didn't create 3200 accounts, so I necessarily have to start with the conclusion that Coinpot is either mistaken or lying. I assume mistakes before malevolence, so the simplest solution is that the unlikely HAS happened.


you are still missing the point
this isnt a computer game with a simple 5% probability
it is the combination of at least 3 different factors (date/ip/email) that makes this extremely improbable
im not for 1 minute saying you a cheater/fraud (i dont know any more than you do)  or accusing you of anything sinister
but even with your wonky math above the chances are at least 1 in a 1000 or more like 1 in a million that this could happen
so they should check each of those 3200 accounts manually to see if each is possibly (1 in a million chance) a genuine account?

A. Date can be removed from the equation. Every day, someone is signing up for a Coinpot account, and probably every day someone is trying to scam Coinpot. The odds of *someone* signing up on the same day with the same email provider as a scammer is basically 100%.

B They don't have to check 3200 accounts. They literally have an email address for support. They only have to check the accounts of the people that email them. I have, and the response is, "Well the timing is suspicious, and suspicious is good enough for us." It's literally impossible to prove I didn't do it, so I'm reliant on them unless I want to sue them. And even if I wanted to sue them, I lost about $450, which would likely cost me that much to recover even if it were a sure bet.

C. Since then, I've seen another person on reddit claiming to have gotten the exact same line about someone in their IP range making accounts with Protonmail emails on the same day. I admit I'm biased to believe them due to my situation. Given that and other people with Protonmail accounts claiming to be banned, I suspect either their IP range is wide or they're overplaying their hand on how precise their anti-fraud is. At worst, people should remember that while scammers have an incentive to claim innocence, Coinpot also has an incentive to claim guilt since they keep the money. And it's not like they have to preserve their business reputation.
grahamlyons
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April 07, 2021, 05:20:05 AM
 #3165

😂 Protonmail accounts get created all the time sure but how many happen to claim coinpot too?

Is that your argument? That there are 0 people who use Protonmail and are not scammers? My point was scammers are creating Coinpot accounts all the time because they don't care if some get banned. They can make 100 more. We don't even know if they only do this to Protonmail accounts.

You are only looking at part of what they said. They said there were a huge number of Protonmail accounts all signed up on the same day from the same IP range. It doesn't matter if was a different email service. They are just stating 3 common factors of a large number of accounts that far beyond coincidence and it is obvious abuse.

He said one sentence, and I quoted all of it. It is obvious that someone is abusing the system. My point is that IP addresses can be shared by a massive number of people, as can email provider. So you make an account, and at the same time someone else is creating a bunch of fake accounts (and there's probably never a time when someone isn't making a bunch of fake accounts). And bam, now your account is yet another one created by the scammer, and you have no way to prove otherwise.

Regardless of whether you think that I personally am lying, this type of fraud detection is fairly likely to create false positives at some point or another. When that happens, you're automatically a scammer and any attempt to defend yourself is proof of your guilt (this is known as a kafka trap).

i think you are massively missing the point here
its not that you use protonmail - of course this is a fairly common email provider
its not that you use a particular ip address - of course they can be shared, especially ip ranges
and its not about the date that you make an account
its the very unlikely combination of all 3.
its very, very unlikely that you would have by coincidence created a protonmail account on the same day that a bot created loads of other protonmail accounts from within the same ip range
i mean, its possible - but massively unlikely - even though the 3 individual parts (date/ip/email) are each plausible

and we dont know from what that email says, perhaps they have additional information too

I'm aware of the point. My point is that their point is wrong. People are bad at statistics. They'll play a game like XCOM where they have a 5% chance of failure when taking an action, then get mad when the 5% happens because they mentally shortcut 95% to 100%.
Here's a follow-up email:

Coinpot says they typically get 3-4 Protonmail accounts a day. On the day my account got created, 3200 got created. So ~3-4 of those accounts are probably legit. A single IP address can represent anywhere from 1 to millions of people. He was looking at an IP range, not a single one, so multiply that by however many individual addresses.

The odds can therefore be stated as, "For each of those 3-4 legit accounts, choose let's say 10 million random people. What are the odds that there is at least 1 Coinpot scammer within those 10 million?" Not that bad, actually. That's 10 million rolls of the dice! It's at least not outside the range of possibility.

Let's also not forget that scammers are not an isolated incident. This whole thing may have played out in similar fashion at other times, with the same or other email providers.

People have this inbuilt trust in authority. Coinpot didn't take *their* money, so Coinpot must be competent and trustworthy and anyone who says otherwise must be a liar. I know that I didn't create 3200 accounts, so I necessarily have to start with the conclusion that Coinpot is either mistaken or lying. I assume mistakes before malevolence, so the simplest solution is that the unlikely HAS happened.


you are still missing the point
this isnt a computer game with a simple 5% probability
it is the combination of at least 3 different factors (date/ip/email) that makes this extremely improbable
im not for 1 minute saying you a cheater/fraud (i dont know any more than you do)  or accusing you of anything sinister
but even with your wonky math above the chances are at least 1 in a 1000 or more like 1 in a million that this could happen
so they should check each of those 3200 accounts manually to see if each is possibly (1 in a million chance) a genuine account?

A. Date can be removed from the equation. Every day, someone is signing up for a Coinpot account, and probably every day someone is trying to scam Coinpot. The odds of *someone* signing up on the same day with the same email provider as a scammer is basically 100%.

B They don't have to check 3200 accounts. They literally have an email address for support. They only have to check the accounts of the people that email them. I have, and the response is, "Well the timing is suspicious, and suspicious is good enough for us." It's literally impossible to prove I didn't do it, so I'm reliant on them unless I want to sue them. And even if I wanted to sue them, I lost about $450, which would likely cost me that much to recover even if it were a sure bet.

C. Since then, I've seen another person on reddit claiming to have gotten the exact same line about someone in their IP range making accounts with Protonmail emails on the same day. I admit I'm biased to believe them due to my situation. Given that and other people with Protonmail accounts claiming to be banned, I suspect either their IP range is wide or they're overplaying their hand on how precise their anti-fraud is. At worst, people should remember that while scammers have an incentive to claim innocence, Coinpot also has an incentive to claim guilt since they keep the money. And it's not like they have to preserve their business reputation.

A. the date is crucial. if your account registered on a different date as these 3200 other protonmail accounts then it (probably) wouldnt have been suspicious and banned. i cannot understand why you think its 100%. you are still missing the point about it being a combination of 3 low probability factors = an extremely low probability that this is coincidental.
again im not accusing you, im just able to see it from their pov

B. they have to check all 3200 to find the needle in the haystack if everything else about them all (date/ip/email etc) looks the same

C. yes agreed, i can imagine that certain email providers are easier to target by bots/scammers. so they probably looked closer at protonmail than gmail etc.
of course coinpot will claim guilt when they have strong evidence of it. if they had just paid out to every account good or bad, they would have gone out of business very quickly.
yes, i agree they no longer have to care about sustaining their business with advert revenue but ive seen enough here and other places to see that they seem committed to paying out to everyone who is genuine. and if they wanted to run off with peoples money (i.e. exit scam) then its easy to think of ways they could have just run off without paying anyone. its a lot to you, but this $450 is miniscule compared to the money they have paid out
Tiber727
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April 08, 2021, 04:24:31 AM
 #3166

As an update, Coinpot relented and returned the money. They still thought I was a scammer, but conceded the possibility that it was a mistake. I suppose I have to admit I was wrong about them looking for any excuse to not return the money.

That said, my advice to anyone else stuck in my situation is not to rely on emotional appeals. Be polite, but point out the possibility that they made a mistake, and ask if there is any way they can review other details of your account, or what they would accept as proof of your innocence.
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April 08, 2021, 05:47:59 AM
 #3167

As an update, Coinpot relented and returned the money. They still thought I was a scammer, but conceded the possibility that it was a mistake. I suppose I have to admit I was wrong about them looking for any excuse to not return the money.

That said, my advice to anyone else stuck in my situation is not to rely on emotional appeals. Be polite, but point out the possibility that they made a mistake, and ask if there is any way they can review other details of your account, or what they would accept as proof of your innocence.

wow, thats good news. im glad you got it eventually  Smiley

i wonder if they will pay the other 3200 accounts out now too!
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April 08, 2021, 12:13:50 PM
 #3168

Official Thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2006313.0

Withdrawal batches paid today...

DOGECOIN
Paid today: 265230.19577173 DOGE
https://blockchair.com/dogecoin/transaction/9e72ab93df5d5d96010ea5b3c04e85a61202bedcfc119699d3bfe27d1b99c21d
Remaining pending withdrawals: 1326589.06841047 DOGE
blackhat
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April 16, 2021, 04:49:57 PM
 #3169

I mailed them on saturday last week (April 10th), still got no reply as of now.
I'm still missing 83 LTC and 26 BCH. Waiting, ....
LosingMoney83
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April 18, 2021, 12:58:45 PM
 #3170

Well, tried logging into the website to find out it is no longer. Obviously haven't been on the site in months. Did some searching and found this thread.  Had .27 BTC and never received any notification that the site was going away. $16k lost?


Sent an email to support address.

WTF!
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April 18, 2021, 01:59:36 PM
 #3171

Well, tried logging into the website to find out it is no longer. Obviously haven't been on the site in months. Did some searching and found this thread.  Had .27 BTC and never received any notification that the site was going away. $16k lost?


Sent an email to support address.

WTF!

Unfortunately they only informed through the site and not through email, which is understandable that many might have missed out on the updates.

Hope you get your funds, as CP has already paid out all pending earnings before they shut down for good.

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LosingMoney83
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April 18, 2021, 03:19:34 PM
 #3172

Well, tried logging into the website to find out it is no longer. Obviously haven't been on the site in months. Did some searching and found this thread.  Had .27 BTC and never received any notification that the site was going away. $16k lost?


Sent an email to support address.

WTF!

Unfortunately they only informed through the site and not through email, which is understandable that many might have missed out on the updates.

Hope you get your funds, as CP has already paid out all pending earnings before they shut down for good.

What kind of shenanigans is that? Let's not send out a blanket email to people that we are shutting things down. So guess they just take a $16k gift for themselves?
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April 18, 2021, 06:43:50 PM
 #3173

What kind of shenanigans is that? Let's not send out a blanket email to people that we are shutting things down. So guess they just take a $16k gift for themselves?
It's true that they haven't send emails to users about closure of website. At least i haven't found such message in my inbox. They gave enough time for users to request withdrawals, but I can't blame users like who simply weren't aware that Coinpot is closing down.
0.27 BTC is a lot of money, I hope that you will get it...




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LosingMoney83
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April 18, 2021, 09:20:29 PM
Merited by FinneysTrueVision (1)
 #3174

I'm really hoping they do the right thing.  They can send it in doge, btc, whatever. Just hopefully something. Hard earned money.  Life just got busy and stopped checking the site so often.
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April 18, 2021, 10:00:43 PM
 #3175

I'm really hoping they do the right thing.  They can send it in doge, btc, whatever. Just hopefully something. Hard earned money.  Life just got busy and stopped checking the site so often.

I hope you get your dough bud. I wonder how many others are out there who still don't know CP has closed because they didn't notify via email??

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LosingMoney83
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April 19, 2021, 12:36:09 PM
 #3176

I will update if I hear back from them. I'm guessing they view this thread. So please, let me know if the coins/funds will be sent/returned. If not, just let me know so I can stop wasting my time and move on.

Thanks
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April 20, 2021, 09:49:13 AM
 #3177

Well, tried logging into the website to find out it is no longer. Obviously haven't been on the site in months. Did some searching and found this thread.  Had .27 BTC and never received any notification that the site was going away. $16k lost?


Sent an email to support address.

WTF!

Unfortunately they only informed through the site and not through email, which is understandable that many might have missed out on the updates.

Hope you get your funds, as CP has already paid out all pending earnings before they shut down for good.

What kind of shenanigans is that? Let's not send out a blanket email to people that we are shutting things down. So guess they just take a $16k gift for themselves?

This earth is hard.
LosingMoney83
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April 21, 2021, 11:23:46 AM
 #3178

Not very often. Only a small % of crooks out there.
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April 21, 2021, 01:38:17 PM
 #3179

If "Tiber727" exists and does not belong to coinpot.co, then there could be hope of recovering the funds for many people... but I don't hope that because I think there are more people unanswered than there were. But.. who knows? Maybe most of us would recover an unexpected DOGE withdrawal next year when its value decrease 100 times,,,
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April 30, 2021, 10:27:12 AM
 #3180

Anything new?
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