Benson Samuel (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
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May 10, 2013, 06:51:46 AM Last edit: May 11, 2013, 04:39:49 AM by Benson Samuel |
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I have split the thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199432.0 as this deviates from the purpose of that thread. Hello Guys,
I have $ 500 USD worth BTC (roughly about 5 BTC) currently available in my account at the exchange that i'm not actively using in my day-to-day trading. Do let me know if anyone wants to buy.
MTGOX (last price) + 10%
Payment Method : Accept Cash Deposit / NEFT to my Indian Bank account.
I have 4 BTC still available. Price : MTGOX (last price) + 10% I 'll pay you 4,500/- each, purchase all, instant cash deposit. and any escrow you like as long at it is a prominent member . i dont peg the rates to any exchange. start the negotiations. I can tell you 2 things. 1. I m first in line 2. He wont sell at that rate ($85 ??) Hey! just setting some bidding on the line. the indian community has to get off pegging the bitcoin to foreign exchanges. let a free market force determine prices. that is much better and gets rid of monopoly. and stop using the $ use you national currency to bid. I raise my bid to 5000/- any sell want to sell at that rate can join in too. :-) Ps- just because there is supply problem in India does not bean prices can be quoted as pegged+10% . It creates an un favorable market demand and drives away potential future users. If sellers dont agree with this concept, i am sorry i will push free market rates in the indian community much harder. I agree with the concept of pegging BTC to INR, but we also need to take the factor of scarcity into consideration.
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subvolatil
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May 10, 2013, 07:11:24 AM |
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Hello Guys,
I have $ 500 USD worth BTC (roughly about 5 BTC) currently available in my account at the exchange that i'm not actively using in my day-to-day trading. Do let me know if anyone wants to buy.
MTGOX (last price) + 10%
Payment Method : Accept Cash Deposit / NEFT to my Indian Bank account.
I have 4 BTC still available. Price : MTGOX (last price) + 10% I 'll pay you 4,500/- each, purchase all, instant cash deposit. and any escrow you like as long at it is a prominent member . i dont peg the rates to any exchange. start the negotiations. I can tell you 2 things. 1. I m first in line 2. He wont sell at that rate ($85 ??) Hey! just setting some bidding on the line. the indian community has to get off pegging the bitcoin to foreign exchanges. let a free market force determine prices. that is much better and gets rid of monopoly. and stop using the $ use you national currency to bid. I raise my bid to 5000/- any sell want to sell at that rate can join in too. :-) Ps- just because there is supply problem in India does not bean prices can be quoted as pegged+10% . It creates an un favorable market demand and drives away potential future users. If sellers dont agree with this concept, i am sorry i will push free market rates in the indian community much harder. I agree with the concept of pegging BTC to INR, but we also need to take the factor of scarcity into consideration. An that is the reason why a free market system of bids setting prices, is far more better. an economical system would collapse if scarcity drives a monopolistic system of rates. No one in india would want to buy bitcoins and no one would see any use for it. so in better terms, it would be dead in the water before it starts. Whats happening is basically every one holds their sell till GOX has a high price and then add another 10% to their sale. which in its self becomes monopolistic, because sale is determined by one exchange being at a high price. A free market rates would be determined by supply and demand . that the demand is like in India can be gauged properly with this system.
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americandesi
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May 10, 2013, 03:35:11 PM |
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Hello Guys,
I have $ 500 USD worth BTC (roughly about 5 BTC) currently available in my account at the exchange that i'm not actively using in my day-to-day trading. Do let me know if anyone wants to buy.
MTGOX (last price) + 10%
Payment Method : Accept Cash Deposit / NEFT to my Indian Bank account.
I have 4 BTC still available. Price : MTGOX (last price) + 10% I 'll pay you 4,500/- each, purchase all, instant cash deposit. and any escrow you like as long at it is a prominent member . i dont peg the rates to any exchange. start the negotiations. I can tell you 2 things. 1. I m first in line 2. He wont sell at that rate ($85 ??) Hey! just setting some bidding on the line. the indian community has to get off pegging the bitcoin to foreign exchanges. let a free market force determine prices. that is much better and gets rid of monopoly. and stop using the $ use you national currency to bid. I raise my bid to 5000/- any sell want to sell at that rate can join in too. :-) Ps- just because there is supply problem in India does not bean prices can be quoted as pegged+10% . It creates an un favorable market demand and drives away potential future users. If sellers dont agree with this concept, i am sorry i will push free market rates in the indian community much harder. I agree with the concept of pegging BTC to INR, but we also need to take the factor of scarcity into consideration. An that is the reason why a free market system of bids setting prices, is far more better. an economical system would collapse if scarcity drives a monopolistic system of rates. No one in india would want to buy bitcoins and no one would see any use for it. so in better terms, it would be dead in the water before it starts. Whats happening is basically every one holds their sell till GOX has a high price and then add another 10% to their sale. which in its self becomes monopolistic, because sale is determined by one exchange being at a high price. A free market rates would be determined by supply and demand . that the demand is like in India can be gauged properly with this system. I completely agree with you subvolatil. We need a free market system in India that is independent of any exchange. However, i wanted you to note that your entire basis of the pricing is flawed. The concept that you are talking would work very well where buying of virtual currency is as easy as selling it like in USA, Canada and Europe. If i go to someone here and ask for a markup of 10%, then they will kick me in the face. Because people here can buy 1 btc for mtgox, campbx or any other exchange price and the transaction charges as less as 50 cents per transaction. However, the case in India is completely different unless the traders in India are self sufficient by mining the requirements themselves within India. In that case, yes the concept that you are proposing would definitely work. Moreover, when i say 10% markup, there are inherent costs involved in carrying out the transaction and 10% is not completely my profit. Just to give you an idea, the cheapest and reliable funding method usually used by most USA residents Dwolla which charges $ 0.25 to fund mtgox (through my bank account) cannot be used to fund the bitcoins which i intend to sell in India because, at the end of the year, UNCLE SAM (US Federal Tax dept) comes back to me and says "Sir, you have transferred 10X amount of USD to MTGOX account, however you have received only 5X amount of USD in return. What happened to the rest of 5X amount.? ". So i should have a convincing explanation with paper trial. I cannot even claim that i lost them during trading because, MTGOX abides by the US, Canada and European AML laws. So i should choose cash deposit method which itself costs me about 4 - 5%. Secondly, when i receive the funds through Bank transfer in India, i should get it back here to keep the money rolling for my business. Every bank here charges about 3 - 4 USD for using their ATM to withdraw using a International Indian Debit card. This fee is apart from the fee of Rs 125 INR or Rs 150.00 INR that will be charged by my bank in India. Its not over yet. Indian Banks give you a very shitty exchange rate when you use their debit card to withdraw funds abroad. Usually Rs 0.50 less than any foreign exchange and sometimes even upto Rs 1.00 less per USD. That is a risk am taking. I agree, there might be some other ways to route money from India to USA, but since the money is coming from India, it is very risky and it might end up being treated as t e r r 0 r 1 s t funding. Trust me, i work in the field of cyber intelligence and pretty much know what all the f e d s track. After all those fees, am left with 2 -3 % per bitcoin. I think that is a fair enough margin in any business for all the risk and pains that am taking to keep me motivated to come back the next day and keep me going. Am not justifying anyone and i don't need to infact, am just letting you know that your perceived notion of 10% profit is wrong. And moreover, with the recent happenings and yesterday's news announcement, i don't think many people from USA / Canada (and Europe shortly) will consider trading of bitcoins as priority anymore to make money. Am sure that you are aware that many retail websites in USA and Canada have started accepting bitcoins as payment. Yesterday's news was huge. A gift card company called GYFT started accepting bitcoin through bitpay (am sure bitpay uses mtgox exchange rate). They sell gift cards of almost every company in USA including Amazon, CVS pharmacy, Target, Walmart, Hollister, American Eagle, restaurants, flight and travel websites. That is turning my bitcoins to real cash legitemitely without the hassles of trading. Those shops are pretty much everywhere i shop. And the fee is just 0.89%. Infact i will end up paying more if i buy stuff from same places using my credit card. Hell ya, i can live my life with only bitcoins. I can buy everything right from my toilet paper to rice and grocery using bitcoins. Most of my friends here feel the same and one of my friends even ordered a Radeon 7970 from amazon using that gift card. Just my 2 cents..!! :-)
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legendster
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May 10, 2013, 08:55:19 PM |
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Hello Guys,
I have $ 500 USD worth BTC (roughly about 5 BTC) currently available in my account at the exchange that i'm not actively using in my day-to-day trading. Do let me know if anyone wants to buy.
MTGOX (last price) + 10%
Payment Method : Accept Cash Deposit / NEFT to my Indian Bank account.
I have 4 BTC still available. Price : MTGOX (last price) + 10% I 'll pay you 4,500/- each, purchase all, instant cash deposit. and any escrow you like as long at it is a prominent member . i dont peg the rates to any exchange. start the negotiations. I can tell you 2 things. 1. I m first in line 2. He wont sell at that rate ($85 ??) Hey! just setting some bidding on the line. the indian community has to get off pegging the bitcoin to foreign exchanges. let a free market force determine prices. that is much better and gets rid of monopoly. and stop using the $ use you national currency to bid. I raise my bid to 5000/- any sell want to sell at that rate can join in too. :-) Ps- just because there is supply problem in India does not bean prices can be quoted as pegged+10% . It creates an un favorable market demand and drives away potential future users. If sellers dont agree with this concept, i am sorry i will push free market rates in the indian community much harder. Ever had the IDEA that most traders are not miners ? They BUY the coins they sell ? Price of a Bitcoin is dependent on the Supply/demand curve and in India there is limited supply and high demand, it is a market strategy to monopolize and charge high now, that is how a market works ! Keep in mind that The Price per BTC is also a real representation of the value of the "Energy Spent" on creating it (think about it) and you cannot be expecting to peg BTC's value in INR because INR is such a weak currency.
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subvolatil
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May 10, 2013, 09:53:15 PM |
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Hello Guys,
I have $ 500 USD worth BTC (roughly about 5 BTC) currently available in my account at the exchange that i'm not actively using in my day-to-day trading. Do let me know if anyone wants to buy.
MTGOX (last price) + 10%
Payment Method : Accept Cash Deposit / NEFT to my Indian Bank account.
I have 4 BTC still available. Price : MTGOX (last price) + 10% I 'll pay you 4,500/- each, purchase all, instant cash deposit. and any escrow you like as long at it is a prominent member . i dont peg the rates to any exchange. start the negotiations. I can tell you 2 things. 1. I m first in line 2. He wont sell at that rate ($85 ??) Hey! just setting some bidding on the line. the indian community has to get off pegging the bitcoin to foreign exchanges. let a free market force determine prices. that is much better and gets rid of monopoly. and stop using the $ use you national currency to bid. I raise my bid to 5000/- any sell want to sell at that rate can join in too. :-) Ps- just because there is supply problem in India does not bean prices can be quoted as pegged+10% . It creates an un favorable market demand and drives away potential future users. If sellers dont agree with this concept, i am sorry i will push free market rates in the indian community much harder. Ever had the IDEA that most traders are not miners ? They BUY the coins they sell ? Price of a Bitcoin is dependent on the Supply/demand curve and in India there is limited supply and high demand, it is a market strategy to monopolize and charge high now, that is how a market works ! Keep in mind that The Price per BTC is also a real representation of the value of the "Energy Spent" on creating it (think about it) and you cannot be expecting to peg BTC's value in INR because INR is such a weak currency. Wow !! just like i expected to see how the indian community of bitcoiners would be like . you look at bitcoin and all you see is a way to make money. you will do any thing to stop using a biding system to ensure that nothing like a free market workes out. The mod seeems to care less about growing the indian community rather to increase his chances of earning the cash. All i have been really talking about to to grow the community. have people involved. stop practices that is harmfull to the community. But all you people want is to make money off others. Bitcoin is not even born in india , let alone in it infancy . and most of you people are on the way to killing it . you want monopoly do it outside the bitcoin forums. it has been a history that bitcoin is determined by bids and free market economy. not some thing stupid as waiting to Mt Gox to be at it highest and then selling you bitcoins at Gox +10% . You deal with market suply and demand. you set the prices and then let the market forces decide. All i am telling you is to stop quoting gox and quote you own prices. Do all you dealings on posts not on private pm. You want to use desi tactic, that is not gona work. I know very well india being the land of scams. people just want to rip off others . Consider me as the your personal moral police. i will always point out the wrong, i will always make sure you follow the open standards of the bitcoin community . Remember the indian bitcoin community is nothing special that it goes by its own rule. but the rules of this global community, that has valued itself on open transactions. and open forums. Stop using all this explanations of banking cost and week currency to justify what is being done . You want to sell sell it on the price you want. give a dam number dont use the prices set in gox or any exchange and then raise another 10% . you do you dam calculation and put in a number to what you want.
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Benson Samuel (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
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May 11, 2013, 02:04:29 AM |
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The mod seeems to care less about growing the indian community rather to increase his chances of earning the cash.
So what are you saying here? Explain? I am working as hard as anyone out here. So pick your words carefully. I am not a buyer or a seller but I will help people. Ask anyone in the community if I have ever charged for anything. I will help anyone who asks, as long as it is not about loans, advances or INR escrows. And I do not need cash, lol. I have other interests in mind here and all of them are aimed at bringing Bitcoin into India in a bigger way. All i have been really talking about to to grow the community. have people involved. stop practices that is harmfull to the community. But all you people want is to make money off others. Bitcoin is not even born in india , let alone in it infancy . and most of you people are on the way to killing it .
Lol, patience subvolatil. It has just started. What did you expect? A fully mature market in 4 years? A booming Indian market in under a year? By devaluing its price, you seem to be a bit more geared towards killing it. you want monopoly do it outside the bitcoin forums. it has been a history that bitcoin is determined by bids and free market economy. not some thing stupid as waiting to Mt Gox to be at it highest and then selling you bitcoins at Gox +10% .
You deal with market suply and demand. you set the prices and then let the market forces decide.
There is no monopoly. Everyone displays their request and people buy or sell, it is that simple. No conspiracy to paint here. What happens to people who need to transfer money out of India to buy BTC and then sell to you? Who pays for the trouble/ costs that they encounter? How do you judge supply and demand when we do not even have a fraction of BTC in India? Demand is skyrocketting, but there is no supply. In order to cover up the supply, there are costs involved. All i am telling you is to stop quoting gox and quote you own prices. Do all you dealings on posts not on private pm. You want to use desi tactic, that is not gona work. I know very well india being the land of scams. people just want to rip off others . Consider me as the your personal moral police. i will always point out the wrong, i will always make sure you follow the open standards of the bitcoin community . Remember the indian bitcoin community is nothing special that it goes by its own rule. but the rules of this global community, that has valued itself on open transactions. and open forums.
Stop using all this explanations of banking cost and week currency to justify what is being done . You want to sell sell it on the price you want. give a dam number dont use the prices set in gox or any exchange and then raise another 10% . you do you dam calculation and put in a number to what you want.
I would like to see you lead this by selling BTC under the price of the Exchange rates. This is not moral policing, but a very personal view. I would like to see how many people will be Ok with devaluing Bitcoin in India. Conclusion: I do believe that your intentions are awesome, but you were unable to explain them in a civil manner through the forum. I noticed your post on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194102.0 offering Escrow. Is that what upset you? Because I posted that I will be offering as well? I only posted that due to the number of requests and the number of times that I had to resend that e-mail to people requesting for the service. If anyone else feels that there is unfairness, it needs to be vocal. I tremendously appreciate subvolatil for the previous note. Hopefully, we can grow the community in a manner that is better suited to everyone's need of the hour. My goal is to have 1 million Indians shout 'Bitcoin' by the end of this year. And everything that can be done, will be done to make that happen. PS: We are very close BTW.
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subvolatil
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May 11, 2013, 04:59:04 AM |
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The mod seeems to care less about growing the indian community rather to increase his chances of earning the cash.
So what are you saying here? Explain? I am working as hard as anyone out here. So pick your words carefully. I am not a buyer or a seller but I will help people. Ask anyone in the community if I have ever charged for anything. I will help anyone who asks, as long as it is not about loans, advances or INR escrows. And I do not need cash, lol. I have other interests in mind here and all of them are aimed at bringing Bitcoin into India in a bigger way. All i have been really talking about to to grow the community. have people involved. stop practices that is harmfull to the community. But all you people want is to make money off others. Bitcoin is not even born in india , let alone in it infancy . and most of you people are on the way to killing it .
Lol, patience subvolatil. It has just started. What did you expect? A fully mature market in 4 years? A booming Indian market in under a year? By devaluing its price, you seem to be a bit more geared towards killing it. you want monopoly do it outside the bitcoin forums. it has been a history that bitcoin is determined by bids and free market economy. not some thing stupid as waiting to Mt Gox to be at it highest and then selling you bitcoins at Gox +10% .
You deal with market suply and demand. you set the prices and then let the market forces decide.
There is no monopoly. Everyone displays their request and people buy or sell, it is that simple. No conspiracy to paint here. What happens to people who need to transfer money out of India to buy BTC and then sell to you? Who pays for the trouble/ costs that they encounter? How do you judge supply and demand when we do not even have a fraction of BTC in India? Demand is skyrocketting, but there is no supply. In order to cover up the supply, there are costs involved. All i am telling you is to stop quoting gox and quote you own prices. Do all you dealings on posts not on private pm. You want to use desi tactic, that is not gona work. I know very well india being the land of scams. people just want to rip off others . Consider me as the your personal moral police. i will always point out the wrong, i will always make sure you follow the open standards of the bitcoin community . Remember the indian bitcoin community is nothing special that it goes by its own rule. but the rules of this global community, that has valued itself on open transactions. and open forums.
Stop using all this explanations of banking cost and week currency to justify what is being done . You want to sell sell it on the price you want. give a dam number dont use the prices set in gox or any exchange and then raise another 10% . you do you dam calculation and put in a number to what you want.
I would like to see you lead this by selling BTC under the price of the Exchange rates. This is not moral policing, but a very personal view. I would like to see how many people will be Ok with devaluing Bitcoin in India. Conclusion: I do believe that your intentions are awesome, but you were unable to explain them in a civil manner through the forum. I noticed your post on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=194102.0 offering Escrow. Is that what upset you? Because I posted that I will be offering as well? I only posted that due to the number of requests and the number of times that I had to resend that e-mail to people requesting for the service. If anyone else feels that there is unfairness, it needs to be vocal. I tremendously appreciate subvolatil for the previous note. Hopefully, we can grow the community in a manner that is better suited to everyone's need of the hour. My goal is to have 1 million Indians shout 'Bitcoin' by the end of this year. And everything that can be done, will be done to make that happen. PS: We are very close BTW. Benson atleast i'm not charging any thing. No where on my post do you see me trying to take advantage of people. Hey did i offer to sell on my forum right now? no i did not . When i do i know how to . All i am telling people to do is to start quoting amounts . There is no devaluation there. But what you dont seem to grasp is that when people start to peg their prices to gox it creates a system that does not let other sellers and buyers participate in those buys. there is no open system of communication that can happen . I have not said they cant cover up their cost on transfers and profits. just use an amount, not gox+10% . you want active participation in the community , you should be taking the lead to have people involved in a open system of transaction . Just because the supply is low does not mean that you promote a system that allowes people to hurt the community . no . All that needs to be done is, a person is selling BTC put in a number, if his gox+10% is 9,000, put that number in, not a % that is on a exchange which very few people can reach. So tell me where is devaluing the prices comes in to play. Unless you are scared that gox prices would go up and you loose up on the money that the exchange going up . is that the reason ? well if that is it just say the market has risen and the new price is this. is that hard to do? by the way the post i have put in does not any where state that i am doing harm to people , that post gives buyers and sellers to offer their prices they want, to do it according to gox they can jut put in the INR figure. You want people to come into the community more you need some thing that is simple . You talk about me taking the lead yeh i have . i put in an open system for every one to know what is going on . but do you see me chagrin any thing . in this early stage you can't even handle a few hundred transaction escrow a day. and you start charging a % despite being a mod in a forum that barely has a few hundred members. Any one else doing that i can understand but a mod, its a bit low. Monopoly - when a person, business, goods, or a system controls the the market of purchase and supply of goods. here the system of using gox+10 is the monopoly. i'm not attacking the sky rocketing prices. bitcoin prices will rise through time . but what i am concerned about is the use of a Exchange to standardize purchase ans sale . moving people off using gox+10% is a better thing to do, if they want to still use the exchange rates but just quote prices in INR. You as a mod need to see that transactions atleast in such an infancy should be open and needs to be out there. not in private pm's and gox rate. As an Indian i would like to use my currency standards to show value. INR , if you have forgotten its Rupee. you want to see 1 million people in the indian community start by having people quote prices in INR, they can add in any amount in overheads to cover their rates, there is no devaluation , just the use of INR insted of saying gox+10%. You need to promote open systems. if your interest is to bring bitcoin in india in a bigger way , my interests lies in solving problems in bringing bitcoin in a bigger way .
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Benson Samuel (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
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May 11, 2013, 05:50:22 AM |
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Benson atleast i'm not charging any thing. No where on my post do you see me trying to take advantage of people.
How is anyone taking advantage of people? People are free to decide whether my services should be used or not. We are NOT children here. If anyone asks me for an escrow, I would rather direct them to a trusted party than deal with it myself. Can you name some other people who will be good candidates for escrow? I will be glad to add their names to the thread as well. Hey did i offer to sell on my forum right now? no i did not . When i do i know how to . All i am telling people to do is to start quoting amounts . There is no devaluation there. But what you dont seem to grasp is that when people start to peg their prices to gox it creates a system that does not let other sellers and buyers participate in those buys. there is no open system of communication that can happen .
It is not me asking people to peg to Gox. This seems to be the norm to peg the price to a well known exchange. Everyone prices the way they feel. And FYI, there are people who sell for way less than GOX and some who sell way way more as well. Right here on the forums. I have helped promote both kinds of sellers. And, no, I have not really supported or involved much with a justification on pricing. Everyone is free to trade as they choose. Some say Gox, others say btc-e. Until we have something that fluid in India, it is tough to peg a price to INR. I have not said they cant cover up their cost on transfers and profits. just use an amount, not gox+10% . you want active participation in the community , you should be taking the lead to have people involved in a open system of transaction .
Just because the supply is low does not mean that you promote a system that allowes people to hurt the community . no .
If anyone feels that this system is hurting the community, then by all means, we should stop it. This is the first time that I am hearing about something like this. All that needs to be done is, a person is selling BTC put in a number, if his gox+10% is 9,000, put that number in, not a % that is on a exchange which very few people can reach.
This sounds very reasonable. In fact, It would be great if someone could put up a calculator to add margins and then quote in INR. So tell me where is devaluing the prices comes in to play. Unless you are scared that gox prices would go up and you loose up on the money that the exchange going up . is that the reason ? well if that is it just say the market has risen and the new price is this. is that hard to do? by the way the post i have put in does not any where state that i am doing harm to people , that post gives buyers and sellers to offer their prices they want, to do it according to gox they can jut put in the INR figure. Nowhere had you mentioned that this was all about the currency denomination. All i am telling you is to stop quoting gox and quote you own prices. This discussion sprang from you quoting 5K INR when the price quoted was a lot more reasonable. It was a sale thread and you moved it into a bid thread. Hence the discussion. You can always start a bid sale with your own coins, no problem with that at all. Changing from USD to INR is a fantastic solution. In fact if you notice, I had tried that on 2 posts earlier when I helped someone sell BTC. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198710.0https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=197790.0You talk about me taking the lead yeh i have . i put in an open system for every one to know what is going on . but do you see me chagrin any thing . in this early stage you can't even handle a few hundred transaction escrow a day. and you start charging a % despite being a mod in a forum that barely has a few hundred members. Any one else doing that i can understand but a mod, its a bit low.
You seem to think that the forum is the only work that I do. I joined here as a volunteer and worked quite hard to get people involved in the Bitcoin community. So if you think that a moderator cannot charge escrow, you are wrong. I am also a bitcoiner just like you. I handle several Websites, work with the press, blog, write code to feed my family, and a host of other activities. The Bitcoin forums may be at an early stage, but there are several other online resources gaining quick traction as well. In fact, I know a bunch of miners in Bangalore who do not really participate in the community because they choose not to. Monopoly - when a person, business, goods, or a system controls the the market of purchase and supply of goods. here the system of using gox+10 is the monopoly. i'm not attacking the sky rocketing prices. bitcoin prices will rise through time . but what i am concerned about is the use of a Exchange to standardize purchase ans sale .
moving people off using gox+10% is a better thing to do, if they want to still use the exchange rates but just quote prices in INR.
Mt Gox deserves their monopoly because no one has been able to offer a better solution till date. Build a better solution and the world will follow. Quoting prices in INR is well advised. You as a mod need to see that transactions atleast in such an infancy should be open and needs to be out there. not in private pm's and gox rate.
All discussions and proof of sale can be vetted on the same thread as the intent to sale.
That was part of the post that I had made. Nothing is done in PM unless either party requests secrecy. That is every users right. Anyone can PM anyone and discuss any matter. I will not stop that from happening. As an Indian i would like to use my currency standards to show value. INR , if you have forgotten its Rupee. you want to see 1 million people in the indian community start by having people quote prices in INR, they can add in any amount in overheads to cover their rates, there is no devaluation , just the use of INR insted of saying gox+10%. You need to promote open systems.
You are mentioning the INR bit for the first time and I have promoted it as mentioned above. if your interest is to bring bitcoin in india in a bigger way , my interests lies in solving problems in bringing bitcoin in a bigger way .
Then you should work on that.
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laserwolf
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 54
Merit: 0
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May 11, 2013, 06:17:01 AM |
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some 150,000 BTC are traded for USD everyday on MtGox. When 80% of the trade happens at one place, everyone else must follow that price. even the MtGoxEUR price tightly follows the USD price and USDEUR exchange rate. subvolatil, INR will always follow MtGoxUSD in this situation.
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legendster
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May 11, 2013, 06:33:04 AM |
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Hello Guys,
I have $ 500 USD worth BTC (roughly about 5 BTC) currently available in my account at the exchange that i'm not actively using in my day-to-day trading. Do let me know if anyone wants to buy.
MTGOX (last price) + 10%
Payment Method : Accept Cash Deposit / NEFT to my Indian Bank account.
I have 4 BTC still available. Price : MTGOX (last price) + 10% I 'll pay you 4,500/- each, purchase all, instant cash deposit. and any escrow you like as long at it is a prominent member . i dont peg the rates to any exchange. start the negotiations. I can tell you 2 things. 1. I m first in line 2. He wont sell at that rate ($85 ??) Hey! just setting some bidding on the line. the indian community has to get off pegging the bitcoin to foreign exchanges. let a free market force determine prices. that is much better and gets rid of monopoly. and stop using the $ use you national currency to bid. I raise my bid to 5000/- any sell want to sell at that rate can join in too. :-) Ps- just because there is supply problem in India does not bean prices can be quoted as pegged+10% . It creates an un favorable market demand and drives away potential future users. If sellers dont agree with this concept, i am sorry i will push free market rates in the indian community much harder. Ever had the IDEA that most traders are not miners ? They BUY the coins they sell ? Price of a Bitcoin is dependent on the Supply/demand curve and in India there is limited supply and high demand, it is a market strategy to monopolize and charge high now, that is how a market works ! Keep in mind that The Price per BTC is also a real representation of the value of the "Energy Spent" on creating it (think about it) and you cannot be expecting to peg BTC's value in INR because INR is such a weak currency. Wow !! just like i expected to see how the indian community of bitcoiners would be like . you look at bitcoin and all you see is a way to make money. you will do any thing to stop using a biding system to ensure that nothing like a free market workes out. The mod seeems to care less about growing the indian community rather to increase his chances of earning the cash. All i have been really talking about to to grow the community. have people involved. stop practices that is harmfull to the community. But all you people want is to make money off others. Bitcoin is not even born in india , let alone in it infancy . and most of you people are on the way to killing it . you want monopoly do it outside the bitcoin forums. it has been a history that bitcoin is determined by bids and free market economy. not some thing stupid as waiting to Mt Gox to be at it highest and then selling you bitcoins at Gox +10% . You deal with market suply and demand. you set the prices and then let the market forces decide. All i am telling you is to stop quoting gox and quote you own prices. Do all you dealings on posts not on private pm. You want to use desi tactic, that is not gona work. I know very well india being the land of scams. people just want to rip off others . Consider me as the your personal moral police. i will always point out the wrong, i will always make sure you follow the open standards of the bitcoin community . Remember the indian bitcoin community is nothing special that it goes by its own rule. but the rules of this global community, that has valued itself on open transactions. and open forums. Stop using all this explanations of banking cost and week currency to justify what is being done . You want to sell sell it on the price you want. give a dam number dont use the prices set in gox or any exchange and then raise another 10% . you do you dam calculation and put in a number to what you want. I hate any Kind of Police. And I m sorry with me as a trader myself I CANNOT SELL COINS BELOW THE PRICE at which I BUY IT FOR ! If I was a miner had some 100 150 or maybe 1000 coins I'd sell below the market price. But the point stands. You want coins come get it. But its not a free giveaway commodity. PEOPLE TRADE TO MAKE PROFIT, NOT TO BE "the DaaTA" If India is a land of Scam then it is also the land of Gandhigiri. If Indians are known to be poor & ready to rip off people, then it also has NGO's like being Human and Business Power houses like Tata. And about the Mod making cash.. All I'd say is CHOOSE YOUR WORDS VERY CAREFULLY !
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legendster
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May 11, 2013, 06:38:13 AM |
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All that needs to be done is, a person is selling BTC put in a number, if his gox+10% is 9,000, put that number in, not a % that is on a exchange which very few people can reach. So you are expecting TRADERS to continuously update each of their rate threads ? What if I quote 9k INR today and tomorrow the Gox prices rises above 11k INR, keep in mind that I am BUYING FROM GOX & SELLING TO PEOPLE & the guy willing to buy says 'WOW WHAT A DEAL!!' He contacts me & finds out that I FAILED to update my rates & Hence yells SCAMMER at my face & degrades my rep ... thats what you are suggesting. Even getting money into GOX or OKPAy costs money as traders we must ensure that our profit margins covers that and then some.
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subvolatil
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May 11, 2013, 06:46:11 AM |
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Benson atleast i'm not charging any thing. No where on my post do you see me trying to take advantage of people.
How is anyone taking advantage of people? People are free to decide whether my services should be used or not. We are NOT children here. If anyone asks me for an escrow, I would rather direct them to a trusted party than deal with it myself. Can you name some other people who will be good candidates for escrow? I will be glad to add their names to the thread as well. Hey did i offer to sell on my forum right now? no i did not . When i do i know how to . All i am telling people to do is to start quoting amounts . There is no devaluation there. But what you dont seem to grasp is that when people start to peg their prices to gox it creates a system that does not let other sellers and buyers participate in those buys. there is no open system of communication that can happen .
It is not me asking people to peg to Gox. This seems to be the norm to peg the price to a well known exchange. Everyone prices the way they feel. And FYI, there are people who sell for way less than GOX and some who sell way way more as well. Right here on the forums. I have helped promote both kinds of sellers. And, no, I have not really supported or involved much with a justification on pricing. Everyone is free to trade as they choose. Some say Gox, others say btc-e. Until we have something that fluid in India, it is tough to peg a price to INR. I have not said they cant cover up their cost on transfers and profits. just use an amount, not gox+10% . you want active participation in the community , you should be taking the lead to have people involved in a open system of transaction .
Just because the supply is low does not mean that you promote a system that allowes people to hurt the community . no .
If anyone feels that this system is hurting the community, then by all means, we should stop it. This is the first time that I am hearing about something like this. All that needs to be done is, a person is selling BTC put in a number, if his gox+10% is 9,000, put that number in, not a % that is on a exchange which very few people can reach.
This sounds very reasonable. In fact, It would be great if someone could put up a calculator to add margins and then quote in INR. So tell me where is devaluing the prices comes in to play. Unless you are scared that gox prices would go up and you loose up on the money that the exchange going up . is that the reason ? well if that is it just say the market has risen and the new price is this. is that hard to do? by the way the post i have put in does not any where state that i am doing harm to people , that post gives buyers and sellers to offer their prices they want, to do it according to gox they can jut put in the INR figure. Nowhere had you mentioned that this was all about the currency denomination. All i am telling you is to stop quoting gox and quote you own prices. This discussion sprang from you quoting 5K INR when the price quoted was a lot more reasonable. It was a sale thread and you moved it into a bid thread. Hence the discussion. You can always start a bid sale with your own coins, no problem with that at all. Changing from USD to INR is a fantastic solution. In fact if you notice, I had tried that on 2 posts earlier when I helped someone sell BTC. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198710.0https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=197790.0You talk about me taking the lead yeh i have . i put in an open system for every one to know what is going on . but do you see me chagrin any thing . in this early stage you can't even handle a few hundred transaction escrow a day. and you start charging a % despite being a mod in a forum that barely has a few hundred members. Any one else doing that i can understand but a mod, its a bit low.
You seem to think that the forum is the only work that I do. I joined here as a volunteer and worked quite hard to get people involved in the Bitcoin community. So if you think that a moderator cannot charge escrow, you are wrong. I am also a bitcoiner just like you. I handle several Websites, work with the press, blog, write code to feed my family, and a host of other activities. The Bitcoin forums may be at an early stage, but there are several other online resources gaining quick traction as well. In fact, I know a bunch of miners in Bangalore who do not really participate in the community because they choose not to. Monopoly - when a person, business, goods, or a system controls the the market of purchase and supply of goods. here the system of using gox+10 is the monopoly. i'm not attacking the sky rocketing prices. bitcoin prices will rise through time . but what i am concerned about is the use of a Exchange to standardize purchase ans sale .
moving people off using gox+10% is a better thing to do, if they want to still use the exchange rates but just quote prices in INR.
Mt Gox deserves their monopoly because no one has been able to offer a better solution till date. Build a better solution and the world will follow. Quoting prices in INR is well advised. You as a mod need to see that transactions atleast in such an infancy should be open and needs to be out there. not in private pm's and gox rate.
All discussions and proof of sale can be vetted on the same thread as the intent to sale.
That was part of the post that I had made. Nothing is done in PM unless either party requests secrecy. That is every users right. Anyone can PM anyone and discuss any matter. I will not stop that from happening. As an Indian i would like to use my currency standards to show value. INR , if you have forgotten its Rupee. you want to see 1 million people in the indian community start by having people quote prices in INR, they can add in any amount in overheads to cover their rates, there is no devaluation , just the use of INR insted of saying gox+10%. You need to promote open systems.
You are mentioning the INR bit for the first time and I have promoted it as mentioned above. if your interest is to bring bitcoin in india in a bigger way , my interests lies in solving problems in bringing bitcoin in a bigger way .
Then you should work on that. I should have understood that most dont not have a background in economic. when i said not to peg it to an exchange. My fault , my bad. What i meant in the earlier post not to peg it to an exchange was to tell that a number based system was a better one. with an amount used to represent the value. If that translate as some thing alien, then this is what it meant. "Using a value that is attached to a exchange with addition of 10% gives a vauge idea of value to the bitcoin, so if insted you convert that value to a number and represented it in the Indian currency, would be fare less hostile to new people looking to enter the bitcoin market. " so this is not the first time i am mentioning INR. people just went defensive when i asked them to put in a number instead of saying gox+10% . if you understood why people became defensive by giving explanations that really does not make any financial sense, then you will understand why it hurts the community. try to think on that . Ps- i was not saying that gox was in monopoly. gox never had monopoly. i pointed the monopoly to the system of using the gox+10 a monopoly. because that system sets prices not the supply and demand in the country. Hey every one is working , every one puts in their time to make ends meet. "You talk about me taking the lead yeh i have . i put in an open system for every one to know what is going on . but do you see me chagrin any thing . in this early stage you can't even handle a few hundred transaction escrow a day. and you start charging a % despite being a mod in a forum that barely has a few hundred members. Any one else doing that i can understand but a mod, its a bit low. "
You seem to think that the forum is the only work that I do. I joined here as a volunteer and worked quite hard to get people involved in the Bitcoin community. So if you think that a moderator cannot charge escrow, you are wrong. I am also a bitcoiner just like you. I handle several Websites, work with the press, blog, write code to feed my family, and a host of other activities. The Bitcoin forums may be at an early stage, but there are several other online resources gaining quick traction as well. In fact, I know a bunch of miners in Bangalore who do not really participate in the community because they choose not to. Where in this entire line do you see me talking about your life , what i pointed out was the ethics behind charging people for escrow, being a mod. But if your justification for this is that you have other thing to do in life, and by charging a % to people there will be less people bothering you then , you sir have forgotten that you as a mod is suppose to get more people involved not the other way around. Let me apologize before hand, the way and style i write and convey thing may be a bit rude but i'm not trying to be rude, just speaking my mind.
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subvolatil
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May 11, 2013, 06:59:51 AM |
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All that needs to be done is, a person is selling BTC put in a number, if his gox+10% is 9,000, put that number in, not a % that is on a exchange which very few people can reach. So you are expecting TRADERS to continuously update each of their rate threads ? What if I quote 9k INR today and tomorrow the Gox prices rises above 11k INR, keep in mind that I am BUYING FROM GOX & SELLING TO PEOPLE & the guy willing to buy says 'WOW WHAT A DEAL!!' He contacts me & finds out that I FAILED to update my rates & Hence yells SCAMMER at my face & degrades my rep ... thats what you are suggesting. Even getting money into GOX or OKPAy costs money as traders we must ensure that our profit margins covers that and then some. Legendster you buy from gox lets say you total expense was 8,000/- INR. you come over to the thread decide to sell it for 10,000/- INR you sell it . you get 2,000/- INR as your profit, this is after calculating expenses and charges. Not taking example of gox+10% system you buy for 8,000/- this creates two outcome. . 1. gox rate dips to less than 8,000/- you will never sell . at that rate. what happens at that time all sellers stop selling ckz they can quote gox+10% creating a voide in the supply of bitcoins. 2. gox rate jumps over 8,000 or ever 10,000/- INR you sell people buy it with additional +10% , who is loosing no one. but the sale is only happening after prices in gox has increased. to your satisfaction. and trust me no one will sell when gox rates are low, and that is some thing that is not good for the community. Sellers never have to go on a loss, sell it at your profit. but put in a amount in it , if you feel that your prices has increased, just apologize and update your new prices. if prices in gox falls you will not loose if prices in gox increase you will not loose.
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Benson Samuel (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
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May 11, 2013, 08:12:50 AM |
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I should have understood that most dont not have a background in economic. when i said not to peg it to an exchange. My fault , my bad.
It has nothing to do with a background in economics. It has to do with the way it was put forth. That is the only thing that started this. And what economics are you talking about that most of us do not have a background on? Keynesian or Austrian? people just went defensive when i asked them to put in a number instead of saying gox+10% . if you understood why people became defensive by giving explanations that really does not make any financial sense, then you will understand why it hurts the community. try to think on that .
Ps- i was not saying that gox was in monopoly. gox never had monopoly. i pointed the monopoly to the system of using the gox+10 a monopoly. because that system sets prices not the supply and demand in the country.
You are also contradicting what you are saying. If they are putting in a number based on Gox, it is still pegged to Mt Gox + 10%. What if the seller needs to clarify where he has derived the price from? Are you asking him not to? People got defensive because you did not explain that you just wanted to see INR being quoted and not Mtgox + 10%. Hey every one is working , every one puts in their time to make ends meet. Quote "You talk about me taking the lead yeh i have . i put in an open system for every one to know what is going on . but do you see me chagrin any thing . in this early stage you can't even handle a few hundred transaction escrow a day. and you start charging a % despite being a mod in a forum that barely has a few hundred members. Any one else doing that i can understand but a mod, its a bit low. "
You seem to think that the forum is the only work that I do. I joined here as a volunteer and worked quite hard to get people involved in the Bitcoin community. So if you think that a moderator cannot charge escrow, you are wrong. I am also a bitcoiner just like you. I handle several Websites, work with the press, blog, write code to feed my family, and a host of other activities. The Bitcoin forums may be at an early stage, but there are several other online resources gaining quick traction as well. In fact, I know a bunch of miners in Bangalore who do not really participate in the community because they choose not to.
Where in this entire line do you see me talking about your life , what i pointed out was the ethics behind charging people for escrow, being a mod. But if your justification for this is that you have other thing to do in life, and by charging a % to people there will be less people bothering you then , you sir have forgotten that you as a mod is suppose to get more people involved not the other way around.
I would also like to understand this open system that you have introduced for people to know. All you have said is 'sell based on Gox rates, but charge in Rupees'. Ethics are based on personal values. When you questioned my ethics, I answered appropriately. In case you did not know, a Moderators job is to ensure smooth flow of the forum, avoid spam, trolls, scammers and settle disputes. This seems to be going on. Although not yet close to where it can be. You have mistaken me for a forum marketer. I do that as well, but out of my own interest. I also strongly support indiabitcoin.com, buysellbitco.in, rbitco.in and any other initiative apart from the forum that drives people into Bitcoin in India. I do that from bensonsamuel.com as a personal interest and not as a duty. Let me apologize before hand, the way and style i write and convey thing may be a bit rude but i'm not trying to be rude, just speaking my mind.
I understand your intentions. If you feel that your method is correct, work on it and see if people embrace it. Else, do not get upset that it was not absorbed. I felt that my method was right, which is why I follow it and people have not disagreed yet. If it did not work, I would never really care, but I will try other approaches for sure. If you understand free market economics, then you will know the model that I have personally chosen and it colludes with the choice of almost every Bitcoiner out there. Including Indians! Conclusion: This discussion started from wanting a peg to INR and then moved into me charging an escrow. You cannot question my ethics, just the same as I will not question yours. But I am willing to listen and adjust based on mass requests. No one has yet requested me to drop the escrow fee. In fact, I have had few requests for escrow after posting that. If asked to drop the fee by my peers, I will oblige. If anyone feels that we should completely move away from using terms such as Mt Gox + 10%, please feel free to move away from that model. And if anyone wants to quote prices in antelopes, please go ahead. Remember, a trader is only looking for the best way to market his product. Even I get way way better responses when I ask for a sale in USD rather than INR.
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legendster
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May 11, 2013, 09:59:59 AM |
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All that needs to be done is, a person is selling BTC put in a number, if his gox+10% is 9,000, put that number in, not a % that is on a exchange which very few people can reach. So you are expecting TRADERS to continuously update each of their rate threads ? What if I quote 9k INR today and tomorrow the Gox prices rises above 11k INR, keep in mind that I am BUYING FROM GOX & SELLING TO PEOPLE & the guy willing to buy says 'WOW WHAT A DEAL!!' He contacts me & finds out that I FAILED to update my rates & Hence yells SCAMMER at my face & degrades my rep ... thats what you are suggesting. Even getting money into GOX or OKPAy costs money as traders we must ensure that our profit margins covers that and then some. Legendster you buy from gox lets say you total expense was 8,000/- INR. you come over to the thread decide to sell it for 10,000/- INR you sell it . you get 2,000/- INR as your profit, this is after calculating expenses and charges. Not taking example of gox+10% system you buy for 8,000/- this creates two outcome. . 1. gox rate dips to less than 8,000/- you will never sell . at that rate. what happens at that time all sellers stop selling ckz they can quote gox+10% creating a voide in the supply of bitcoins. HOLD IT RIGHT HERE. When gox prices dip below 8k, I buy MORE COINS & Sell them for 10%+gox & yes I will never sell my expensive coins for lower prices, I'll even create a separate wallet for them & sell them when the market prices are above them. Thats the best way to increase the supply of coins in India. You sure know a lot about trading, but it is not enough.
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subvolatil
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May 12, 2013, 04:36:24 AM |
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All that needs to be done is, a person is selling BTC put in a number, if his gox+10% is 9,000, put that number in, not a % that is on a exchange which very few people can reach. So you are expecting TRADERS to continuously update each of their rate threads ? What if I quote 9k INR today and tomorrow the Gox prices rises above 11k INR, keep in mind that I am BUYING FROM GOX & SELLING TO PEOPLE & the guy willing to buy says 'WOW WHAT A DEAL!!' He contacts me & finds out that I FAILED to update my rates & Hence yells SCAMMER at my face & degrades my rep ... thats what you are suggesting. Even getting money into GOX or OKPAy costs money as traders we must ensure that our profit margins covers that and then some. Legendster you buy from gox lets say you total expense was 8,000/- INR. you come over to the thread decide to sell it for 10,000/- INR you sell it . you get 2,000/- INR as your profit, this is after calculating expenses and charges. Not taking example of gox+10% system you buy for 8,000/- this creates two outcome. . 1. gox rate dips to less than 8,000/- you will never sell . at that rate. what happens at that time all sellers stop selling ckz they can quote gox+10% creating a voide in the supply of bitcoins. HOLD IT RIGHT HERE. When gox prices dip below 8k, I buy MORE COINS & Sell them for 10%+gox & yes I will never sell my expensive coins for lower prices, I'll even create a separate wallet for them & sell them when the market prices are above them. Thats the best way to increase the supply of coins in India. You sure know a lot about trading, but it is not enough. and that i what i am pointing towards , purchase of coins that are above the current market rates are never sold if you still keep using the gox+10%. Yeh it true when you have liquidity in funds you buy when markets are low, be you willl not sell that coins which you have baught earlear for a higher price. Consider this every one in the market starts doing that. for a period of lets say 10 days the bitsoin rates go bellow the market rates. every one has earlier bought it at a higher market rate. What happens to the bitcoins already bought??? no one sells it . if a market system in which gox+10% is used you wont be able to quote you prices again. because now the buyers will quote gox+10%. you wont be able to sell the older bitcoins untill and unless ther is a liquidity with you to buy ar the current gox rate. here the sellers loose out on the sale of bitcoins not on the suply of the coins in the indian market but the market rates on gox. so only the sellers who has liquidity to purchase in that down market can benefit . secondly also creating a situation where coins are not available because no one sells when gox is down. Here i am talking about a collective not as an individual. As an individual the motive is always profit, to hold when markets are down to sell when it is high. as an individual using gox+10% or quoting prices in INR makes verry little difference because in both the cases i stil make a profit just quoting gox+10% is simple insted of doing a bit of math to give out the value in INR. But on a larger scale when every one does that the problem of scarcity in coins come up . scarcity creates a problem of non adoption of a monetary system what Bitcoin is. Bitcoin is not a trading instrument it is a currency, which has a main purpose of being used to purchase goods and services. so all i am saying is that you want more people to use bitcoin you need to have it more acceptable, to the general public. systems need to be made simpler, for the buyer not complex. people need to be able to see that bitcoin as a currency and not a trading instrument.
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subvolatil
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May 12, 2013, 05:04:40 AM |
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Quote "people just went defensive when i asked them to put in a number instead of saying gox+10% . if you understood why people became defensive by giving explanations that really does not make any financial sense, then you will understand why it hurts the community. try to think on that .
Ps- i was not saying that gox was in monopoly. gox never had monopoly. i pointed the monopoly to the system of using the gox+10 a monopoly. because that system sets prices not the supply and demand in the country."
You are also contradicting what you are saying. If they are putting in a number based on Gox, it is still pegged to Mt Gox + 10%. What if the seller needs to clarify where he has derived the price from? Are you asking him not to? People got defensive because you did not explain that you just wanted to see INR being quoted and not Mtgox + 10%. Yes they got defensive because of that very reason. and i've been trying to explain why it is better to just quote a number rather than gox+10%.But the odd part of this was no body every took time to ask how would this be beneficial, and why it would be better insted came out swinging a club and justifying transactions, to see the bigger picture you got to open your eyes. and trust me once that starts people will be more than acceptance of using bit coins , newer users can more easily be assimilated into the bitcoin community. problems of bitcoins not being sold during gox low rates will be solved. I would also like to understand this open system that you have introduced for people to know. All you have said is 'sell based on Gox rates, but charge in Rupees'. Ok here you go eg - on 12 jan A says i am selling 1 bitcoin for Gox+10% , B says ok i will buy for gox+10% . on 13jan C says i am selling 1 bitcoin for 5,000/INR . D says i am buying it for 5,000/INR on 14 jan A says i am buying 1 bitcoin for Gox+10% D says i am selling for Gox +10% on 15jan C says i am buying 1bitcoin for 6000/INR . B says i am selling for 7,000 INR now put this verry transaction into a market of a hundred transaction .. are you able to gauge what is really happening in the market There is verry little open information to be seen. Think big if you plans are to get bitcoins more acceptability in india now put in a this next example in . on 12 jan A says i am selling 1 bitcoin for 4000/-INR , B says ok i will buy for 4000/-INR . on 13jan C says i am selling 1 bitcoin for 5,000/INR . D says i am buying it for 5,000/-INR on 14 jan A says i am buying 1 bitcoin for 5500/-INR D says i am selling for 6,000/-INR on 15jan C says i am buying 1bitcoin for 6000/INR . B says i am selling for 7,000 INR (sold) This looks like some thing so simple you every one . that you are goina ask Why the hell are you making it a big fuss. its not like bitcoin traing in india is like a million dolar trad. its just a small community. Small community , that is the reason why the big fuss, because once the community grows the problems i have stated are going to be real and we need to adopt a system where in future growth is anticipated . . Ethics are based on personal values. When you questioned my ethics, I answered appropriately. In case you did not know, a Moderators job is to ensure smooth flow of the forum, avoid spam, trolls, scammers and settle disputes. This seems to be going on. Although not yet close to where it can be. You have mistaken me for a forum marketer. I do that as well, but out of my own interest. I also strongly support indiabitcoin.com, buysellbitco.in, rbitco.in and any other initiative apart from the forum that drives people into Bitcoin in India. I do that from bensonsamuel.com as a personal interest and not as a duty. Ehics part was this what i was pointing at :- Where in this entire line do you see me talking about your life , what i pointed out was the ethics behind charging people for escrow, being a mod. But if your justification for this is that you have other thing to do in life, and by charging a % to people there will be less people bothering you then , you sir have forgotten that you as a mod is suppose to get more people involved not the other way around. I never picked up any thing else, and still you justify by answering this part by diverting the answer to other thing like what a mod is suppose to do on the forum and businesses that are operating in the forum . Those are irrelevant to the question i put fort which i will reiterate sin simple english . Are you justifying the charging of the escrow to people so that you have less people bothering you with escrow, and also so that you other thing in life would be given more time ? its that simple. If you answer by saying it so that i can earn money . i respect that every one earns money , but if you intentions was to lower the number of escrow request then you are doing a wrong thing.
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Benson Samuel (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
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May 12, 2013, 05:47:45 AM |
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Anyone else feel that this thread makes sense? I do not see anyone apart from subvolatil with any problems here. I also went through previous posts of subvolatil to check if I was being pulled into an unnecessary conflict and it seems like it is. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129972.msg1390069#msg1390069https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122788.0Dishwara is not a scammer by the way, he is quite a well respected member of the Indian Bitcoin community. If you spent more time reading through the forums, you would have known that. Are you justifying the charging of the escrow to people so that you have less people bothering you with escrow, and also so that you other thing in life would be given more time ? its that simple.
Keeping my Identity Public and open, updating record books, checking for existing scammer tags, a security cover for holding the BTC etc are more than enough reasons for a reasonable fee. The fee is to cover for time and other costs that I incur by moving away from my bread winning work. Everyone here quotes in Gox, because everyone knows Gox. When we get some more fluidity in INR pricing, this will organically change. We have seen this in the past across the russian forums as well. Once wallets and exchanges start showing prices in INR, people will quote in INR. I get my prices from Coinbase in INR. Not everyone uses Coinbase. Please stop accusing members of what you think is personally incorrect. You are wasting time, hi-jacking other peoples threads and causing unnecessary rifts in our growing community. You have suggested ideas on some threads, but never really built them or chased them. Your support to the Indian community has been very weak till date. Do not expect anyone to give a crap till you gain some form of credibility. You have not shown any technical, economic or marketing knowledge thus far. The forum is a place for us to get together and discuss the potential of Bitcoin in India. Not to squabble. If you think there is something wrong with what is happening, click the report to moderator button. theymos & John K review all moderator reports, so there are always more than one person who decides on an outcome of a report.
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subvolatil
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May 12, 2013, 07:39:35 AM |
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Anyone else feel that this thread makes sense? I do not see anyone apart from subvolatil with any problems here. I also went through previous posts of subvolatil to check if I was being pulled into an unnecessary conflict and it seems like it is. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129972.msg1390069#msg1390069https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122788.0Dishwara is not a scammer by the way, he is quite a well respected member of the Indian Bitcoin community. If you spent more time reading through the forums, you would have known that. Are you justifying the charging of the escrow to people so that you have less people bothering you with escrow, and also so that you other thing in life would be given more time ? its that simple.
Keeping my Identity Public and open, updating record books, checking for existing scammer tags, a security cover for holding the BTC etc are more than enough reasons for a reasonable fee. The fee is to cover for time and other costs that I incur by moving away from my bread winning work. Everyone here quotes in Gox, because everyone knows Gox. When we get some more fluidity in INR pricing, this will organically change. We have seen this in the past across the russian forums as well. Once wallets and exchanges start showing prices in INR, people will quote in INR. I get my prices from Coinbase in INR. Not everyone uses Coinbase. Please stop accusing members of what you think is personally incorrect. You are wasting time, hi-jacking other peoples threads and causing unnecessary rifts in our growing community. You have suggested ideas on some threads, but never really built them or chased them. Your support to the Indian community has been very weak till date. Do not expect anyone to give a crap till you gain some form of credibility. You have not shown any technical, economic or marketing knowledge thus far. The forum is a place for us to get together and discuss the potential of Bitcoin in India. Not to squabble. If you think there is something wrong with what is happening, click the report to moderator button. theymos & John K review all moderator reports, so there are always more than one person who decides on an outcome of a report. Wow Benson i did not know you would try to resort to an Ad hominem attack , to a simple question i asked you . the answer too that you give me long unjustifiable answers., You have been discussing on why Indians have a bad rep in the international market . its because they can answer some thing straight forward. It looks like you have already taken up arms against a simple idea . looks like you have more than a vested interest on any thing that is going on in here. you are fighting with me over a simple question i asked . The question i asked you could be answered in less than one sentence. but you love giving long winded answers. and diverting the discussion from free market discussion to a personal crusade to justify you actions. if my one liner question made you so uncomfortable and you went on a rant to justify you action that just make thinigs more suspicious. and why people become so suspicious. i did not accuse you of scams or ripping people off. i questioned you on the ethics and reason behind the charges you put forth. But if you dont want to answer that you dont have to, just dont give out long winded answers to thing that are irreverent. So you idea of justifying thing , aka your actions is to write to the community and basically say " Look this guy is here that wants every one in the bitcoin community to benifit, and want a system that lets sellers not be in control of the prices but the market suply and demand. we should go and ostracize him in front of every one and then we should go about with out normal routine . " Benson you failed to see thing in the bigger prospective of why i was trying to bring up the issue of having things quoted in a National currency. i guess you think you loose money that the reason why you went about digging old posts like a little old women and trying to discredit me. I dont stoop that low . i dont discredit people, i ask straight forward questions and if you cant answer them then it not me to be blamed for it . My questions to past members have been straight forward. the discussion there was totally in the hands of the member, i was asking questions to . he failed to answer giving long winded answers, about the incomtax department and basically trying to drive other members from participating in the community . That brings us to the question i asked earlier . for which you seem to be avoiding the answer. so here it is again . Are you justifying the charging of the escrow to people so that you have less people bothering you with escrow, and also so that you other thing in life would be given more time ? its that simple. By the way mod this is a forum conversation some time things move off course if you want to split this also to your justification topic you can . but it was a simple question that you are blowing off proportion. I have spent the past post explaining to you what i meant by the system i proposed but you seem to ignore that and concentrate on some thing that hurts you ego . for a simple question. your idea of contributing to the community is empowering the sellers and businesses, well that is where i differ, i would rather see some thing that is community driven and determined by the local free market. By the way all my posts have always been to protect the greater good, not a few individuals, you think that is bad, then that's your way of thinking . you want to bring down barriers to people in the community then start to look into the ethical reasons on what is good for the masses and how in the future every one will befit. If you want to continue the discussion on the INR system i was talking about please continue . Ideas can only be proposed , but for adoption of it it needs to be discussed . so if you want this idea to die out then just dont discuss. it will die out. just like the one where in we were discussing about forming a team for a alt coin .and i asked you to create a new thread, you seemed most interested and you seemed to be the one to take the lead but, you did not insted, no one participated and died out. but that post was also a idea i was proposing to solve a specific problem a different problem. Do you see the trend here?? i try to propose idea to solve problems with bitcoin, not find ways to send money to exchanges. I look at the bigger picture when it comes to bitcoin and try to have open system and safer system for the community, through these discussions.
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Benson Samuel (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
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May 12, 2013, 09:31:48 AM |
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Troll
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