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Author Topic: Duckdice.io [SCAM and SHADY behavior]  (Read 17348 times)
Ozafejyw782
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July 15, 2017, 05:03:48 PM
Last edit: July 15, 2017, 05:30:09 PM by Ozafejyw782
 #1

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=917361

Reference Link:
Amount Scammed: 9 bitcoin

What happened::
Hello,

Nickname : Ozafejyw782

I am their biggest winner : https://duckdice.io/stats

I am a casino highroller, I like casinos, poker etc.  Today, I played for my first time on duckdice.io I saw on their bitcointalk's thread that they have a bonus 120%. Let's try it !

I deposited 2 BTC for my first deposit, claimed a bonus, set up 2FA. I was a bit surprised, I got 2 btc extra. I thought that will be like a poker bonus to clear. I can see that I have to clear it. Then I thought it will delete only the 2 BTC extra if I delete it.

Let's gamble ! I played and won from 4 bitcoin to 9.xx and 23% bonus cleared. A lot of beggars spammed me in PM. I got more than 20 private messages in 1 hour.

I had to go, I still didn't trust the website, small, young, not a good reputation(not a bad too) I decided to withdraw but I have my bonus. That's normal, I cannot withdraw.

I decided to cancel my bonus. Even if I lose my extra 2 BTC. It is safer with a young website like that. I click cancel and are you sure yes in 1 second, without reading anything ( My fault) but I never thought there was a shady feature like that.(The proof it is shady, the admin stan talked to me and told me they will change it on monday)

BOOM : 0 balance. I refresh : 0 balance.

I contacted the moderator : barcode. He was very helpful instead of the other moderators (except mharckie
 helpful as well). He told me to talk to the admin who was here : DuckHunt. He didn't answer me.

Then, I started to lose my temper and made a scandal in the chat and magic : an admin "Stan" answered me. He explained me that I decided to cancel my bonus and I had to read. The balance is cancelled. I explained him that's was a shady feature and I just want my account like before : 9.xx BTC balance and 23% bonus cleared. I will clear it and if they are lucky I will lose it.

I asked them if they had enough balance to keep a 10 btc max bet as well (at least 800 BTC) but no links, nothing.

Here their rules :

To claim bonus your balance must be greater or equal to deposit amount.
Your Balance will be locked while bonus is active. You can cancel bonus at any time.
Bonus must be wagered 55x to became a part of your balance.
Wagering contribution is 50% from bet amount.
Reload Bonus can be claimed only twice per day.

It is NOT written:  the balance will be cancelled as well but ONLY the bonus.

At the same time, the admin "stan" sent me a funky proposition : Deposit 5 bitcoin and I will see what I can do for you. IS IT A JOKE ? They stole me 7 BITCOIN and now they want 5 MORE ?

I wanted to get my money back 9 BITCOIN with the same 23% bonus cleared but now they tried to scam me against their own rules, I want the whole balance on my bitcoin address. I want them to give back the money of all the players who have been f***ed by this shady behavior.

STAY AWAY FROM duckdice.io

 
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July 15, 2017, 07:23:44 PM
 #2

As I am seeing they replied in their topic to you. Ok. Maybe they are right, you did not read well so now I am thinking at 2 shots:

1. Even if they were right...for fucks sake, i don't give a shit about your winnings there. You deposited 2 btc. They should give back to you your deposit, at least. And there is another shit ... for  example the point is that when you played, you played with their money so from this point of view they are right. Also they should have limits for such a bonuses. So here I am on your side just to get your deposit back. But as I see the way you write this post, you kind of not giving a shit about 2 btc, all you care is morality of losing some useless money.

2. I understand the casino, as I said before you plaid on their money..It is this normal? Gamblers will understand. It is a diffeerence to play with 50$ and a difference to play with 100$. Even if 50$ are bonus you have more to play. Even if maybe you were never from 4.4 to 2 btc, i mean under 2 btc. You still had the chance to lose more and increase the bet. So here I am giving the good right of the casino.

If it is not at TOS you can go to court for 4000$ or actually 7000$. By law they are forced to keep the bets and the money you had. So if they are actually ilegal you can fuck their website. Even more. Pay a lawyer with 50% of how much he can get. With a situation like this where a gambler is betting 4000$ and losing for some useless not reading the casino can lose 10x more.

Dudes. You can fuck with your clients. For real. Doesn't matter he didn't read properly, that small letters even at bank contracts may be attacked for abusing of doing it small. If you can prove legally that no one is actually reading that shit the casino and the owner may go to jail. Ok, maybe you think that I am crazy here but I met a lot of cases like this, for sure not with bitcoin but still.
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July 15, 2017, 11:48:30 PM
 #3

if every site let you play with bonus with rules that you can cancel it whenever you bust your bonus without sacrificing your original deposit. all gamblers will do this all over again. The result of your actions is solely done by yourself. it is clearly stated (there's a warning before bonus cancellation) that you will have the "x amount" of deduction from your balance. how is this possible for you to blame the site?

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July 15, 2017, 11:59:38 PM
 #4

if every site let you play with bonus with rules that you can cancel it whenever you bust your bonus without sacrificing your original deposit. all gamblers will do this all over again. The result of your actions is solely done by yourself. it is clearly stated (there's a warning before bonus cancellation) that you will have the "x amount" of deduction from your balance. how is this possible for you to blame the site?

Yes, you should blame the site. Terms archived, by the way.

Here's the scenario.

You deposit a significant sum of money into the site with a bonus. The terms seem clear and they even state that you can cancel the bonus at any time. Hence you would expect it to deduct any winnings from the bonus (and for losses, it would not refund you)

You should not, under any circumstances, force the gambler to bet through the entire 55x wager requirement. For this site, you ARE forced because otherwise you will lose your balance. That is unacceptable conduct.



By not highlighting the risk of the bonus beforehand, you are essentially stealing their money: 55x is no small feat, considering you essentially need to bet your full deposit + bonus 110 times as per their rules. Even with a 98% win chance, that's a 10.83% success rate of getting through the requirement.

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July 16, 2017, 12:38:12 AM
 #5

Wait WTF they can not take your initial deposit . Here is the rules from there site .



-You should only lose the winnings you made from the bonus you should know that . you are saying you are highroller and this rule is pretty much a standard rule for all casinos .
-You can lose your deposit only if your bankroll was less than the amount you deposited . There is a rule in all casinos when you take a bonus you play with bonus money first until you bust it then you play with your money . for example

you deposited 2BTC and got extra 2BTC as bonus . You played and your bankroll took a hit and you now have 1BTC then you win big and your bankroll now is 10BTC your initial banalce here is only 1BTC not the 2BTC you deposited because you already lost 1BTC when your bankroll went under 2BTC

But still there is no way you will end up with 0 balance .

So did your bankroll at anytime became under the amount you deposited at first place ?!! If no then without any doubt  they should pay you your deposit amount .

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July 16, 2017, 06:28:47 AM
 #6

Better try other casino buddy

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July 16, 2017, 07:39:51 AM
 #7

if every site let you play with bonus with rules that you can cancel it whenever you bust your bonus without sacrificing your original deposit. all gamblers will do this all over again. The result of your actions is solely done by yourself. it is clearly stated (there's a warning before bonus cancellation) that you will have the "x amount" of deduction from your balance. how is this possible for you to blame the site?

This.

If you got such a profit and cancel without reading I don't see why to blame the site. With such profit, just start to make a lot of bets without increasing bet size on loss. You would just lose the house edge and will end up with still a huge profit.

If he just played on the bonus and cleared it, it would be a good site.

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July 16, 2017, 11:31:06 AM
Last edit: July 16, 2017, 07:47:02 PM by DuckDice.io
 #8

Hello,

mainly all deposit bonus has a penalty when cancelling and for sure no one will allow you to withdraw your bonus winnings without clearing a bonus first.

You've unlocked your bonus for about 23% so technically your profit was still locked, that's the whole purpose of wagering – to make winnings a part of your balance you have to meet wagering requirements.

FOR EVERYONE INFORMATION
Here is what happening when you are canceling your bonus:

First screen example:



Second confirmation screen example:



Well, excuse us if 2 times is not good enough for you, we will add captcha or password field to a confirmation screen, so no one in the future will tell that they just don't care what's happening with their 9btc and click "submit" on every screen and then spending hours on creating a scandal.

The thing you are asking us is to bend the rules only for you. And this is something we won't do for a newcomer scandalist. You never kindly asked to refund your deposit, you claimed that we have to refund your deposit and winnings and you are saying that you've lost 7 btc even though 5 btc you got only because of our bonus which was still locked. If you would've cleared your bonus we would ask no questions on withdrawal(you can check yourself, DuckDice never had any issues with payouts), so my question is where is a scam here?

As a gambling site, we give a chance to win way more with our bonuses and this is actually the first time we have such an issue (actually thank you for this, we will learn and improve from this case). And as in all gambling sites, there are certain risks, that is why we have a penalty for canceling bonus.

DuckDice have a very kind support and a great team of mods, who would've explained to you how our bonuses work before even claiming it.

BTW, you got administration wrong, they just said that they will make a custom much higher % bonus for you on a next deposit the deposit amount is up to you.
So ones again, where is the scam and where those 2 confirmation screens shady for you?

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July 16, 2017, 11:56:29 AM
 #9

Can I ask one question why the losing your initial deposit part is not on bonus rules terms ? or even on FAQ part ?  . While i agree with you that he is out of his way asking for the winnings too and yes he should have read the 2 confirmation screen .- But also the site is wrong for not including this in the rules the rules should be clear before the deposit not after it .


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July 16, 2017, 12:10:57 PM
 #10

Can I ask one question why the losing your initial deposit part is not on bonus rules terms ? or even on FAQ part ?  . While i agree with you that he is out of his way asking for the winnings too and yes he should have read the 2 confirmation screen .- But also the site is wrong for not including this in the rules the rules should be clear before the deposit not after it .



Exactly my point ! In their own website, they have 2 opposite informations : You will cancel your bonus and the other you will cancel your whole balance (a shady feature to be able to cancel your own balance)

And duckdice.io admin : you admitted that's your system is shady because you told me : I will change it on monday, I need to talk to mathematicians.

I only asked you to give me back my account with 9.xx Bitcoin and 23% bonus cleared and all the chat agreed with that. But it seems your website cannot handle it because you asked me to deposit 5 more bitcoin to be able to do something. "Hey, I already scammed you few Bitcoins but I want more".

And to the moderator from duckdice.io, it is normal to do not bite the hand who feed you but there is a limit to the illogical behavior.
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July 16, 2017, 02:36:53 PM
 #11

[Archive]

It is unethical to take away both the bonus balance and the original balance if a user has not completed it.

I do not understand why you would do such a thing. Additionally, the message you had in the bonus cancellation screen (and what you have said) was that you only cancel the profit.

so technically your profit was still locked, that's the whole purpose of wagering – to make winnings a part of your balance you have to meet wagering requirements.

Hence, if you are falsely advertising the amount that is deducted from a player's balance, then that is straight-up scamming them.



I have already talked about forcing a player to complete the bonus, so you can read my reply from above:

Terms archived, by the way.

Here's the scenario.

You deposit a significant sum of money into the site with a bonus. The terms seem clear and they even state that you can cancel the bonus at any time. Hence you would expect it to deduct any winnings from the bonus (and for losses, it would not refund you)

You should not, under any circumstances, force the gambler to bet through the entire 55x wager requirement. For this site, you ARE forced because otherwise you will lose your balance. That is unacceptable conduct.



By not highlighting the risk of the bonus beforehand, you are essentially stealing their money: 55x is no small feat, considering you essentially need to bet your full deposit + bonus 110 times as per their rules. Even with a 98% win chance, that's a 10.83% success rate of getting through the requirement.

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July 16, 2017, 02:59:13 PM
 #12

[Archive]

It is unethical to take away both the bonus balance and the original balance if a user has not completed it.

I do not understand why you would do such a thing. Additionally, the message you had in the bonus cancellation screen (and what you have said) was that you only cancel the profit.

so technically your profit was still locked, that's the whole purpose of wagering – to make winnings a part of your balance you have to meet wagering requirements.

Hence, if you are falsely advertising the amount that is deducted from a player's balance, then that is straight-up scamming them.



I have already talked about forcing a player to complete the bonus, so you can read my reply from above:

Terms archived, by the way.

Here's the scenario.

You deposit a significant sum of money into the site with a bonus. The terms seem clear and they even state that you can cancel the bonus at any time. Hence you would expect it to deduct any winnings from the bonus (and for losses, it would not refund you)

You should not, under any circumstances, force the gambler to bet through the entire 55x wager requirement. For this site, you ARE forced because otherwise you will lose your balance. That is unacceptable conduct.



By not highlighting the risk of the bonus beforehand, you are essentially stealing their money: 55x is no small feat, considering you essentially need to bet your full deposit + bonus 110 times as per their rules. Even with a 98% win chance, that's a 10.83% success rate of getting through the requirement.

If you only cancel the profit, people can just keep playing with the bonus. Site would be bankrupt in a day.

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

The problem here is not Duckdice but just an user that don't read well.

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July 16, 2017, 03:19:22 PM
 #13

If you only cancel the profit, people can just keep playing with the bonus. Site would be bankrupt in a day.

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

The problem here is not Duckdice but just an user that don't read well.

There should be no reason to cancel the entire balance. You're essentially - without the user's prior knowledge - forcing them to go all or nothing on the bonuses. And considering the fact that you have to have the entire bankroll bet 110x, it's a difficult feat.

If you want to punish users by losing part of the bonus balance, then do a simple split based on the bonus %.

In your scenario of 1 BTC and 0.5 BTC bonus, have every wager split 2:1 in terms of deposit and bonus, disregarding any profit upon cancellation.

Note that also, your reload bonus is claimed a maximum of twice a day.



And really, the only reason you make each bet count for 50% of the wagering requirement is to make the actual wager number (110x) look smaller: 55x.

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July 16, 2017, 04:19:28 PM
 #14

If you only cancel the profit, people can just keep playing with the bonus. Site would be bankrupt in a day.

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

The problem here is not Duckdice but just an user that don't read well.

There should be no reason to cancel the entire balance. You're essentially - without the user's prior knowledge - forcing them to go all or nothing on the bonuses. And considering the fact that you have to have the entire bankroll bet 110x, it's a difficult feat.

If you want to punish users by losing part of the bonus balance, then do a simple split based on the bonus %.

In your scenario of 1 BTC and 0.5 BTC bonus, have every wager split 2:1 in terms of deposit and bonus, disregarding any profit upon cancellation.

Note that also, your reload bonus is claimed a maximum of twice a day.



And really, the only reason you make each bet count for 50% of the wagering requirement is to make the actual wager number (110x) look smaller: 55x.

110x isn't even that hard. It must be over 100x due the house edge. Everything below the 100x would allow users just to wager and loose the hotels edge and still end up with profit without any risk.


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July 16, 2017, 04:36:54 PM
 #15

~snip

 And as in all gambling sites there are certain risks, that is why we have a penalty for cancelling bonus.



WOW and *edit* am I reading this right?Huh You LOSE your balance when cancelling a bonus?  
 

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July 16, 2017, 05:34:05 PM
 #16

If you only cancel the profit, people can just keep playing with the bonus. Site would be bankrupt in a day.

If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

The problem here is not Duckdice but just an user that don't read well.

In that case change the total implementation of this bonus system. By no way a user should lose his own balance just because he decided to cancel it.

First of all bonus should be made for a limited period of time. Secondly, many sites have implemented it like whenever bonus is allowed, user plays it with his own balance and not bonus. Like for example just like you said

Quote
If that was so I would deposit 1btc, take the reload bonus so I have 1.5 btc. Make 5 bets of 0.1 on 100x. If I don't hit, I withdraw and deposit again and start over. Best way is just to remove the cancel button. People just don't read.

In this case 0.5 in total should be cut from 1 BTC deposit and not the bonus . Once he wagers it unlocks and he gets the bonus.

You should have something like that rather than to completely erase off users balance just because he decided to cancel it.


It is really unethical to strike off the user's own balance just like actmyname said. I hope this will be resolved so that furthermore no more users can face this.

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July 16, 2017, 06:38:04 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2017, 07:12:44 PM by actmyname
 #17

110x isn't even that hard. It must be over 100x due the house edge. Everything below the 100x would allow users just to wager and loose the hotels edge and still end up with profit without any risk.
Made a spreadsheet showcasing the statistics behind wagering on the max % chance to win which would be the easiest for most to clear the bonus.

Being forced to take a gamble at 40% chances is not great... but this also highlights something else about your site.

You offer a 200% first deposit bonus for Dash, which is actually pretty +ev for people who approach it this way.

A 32.26% chance to win 5.24235328 BTC, risking 1 BTC (in Dash)

.3226 * 4.24235328 + .6774 * (-1) = 0.6912 BTC expected profit.



Not sure about how well you might handle multiple accounts, but that bonus seems pretty appealing.

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July 16, 2017, 06:51:39 PM
 #18

honestly i know duck dice is good site and they are fair all the time and the admins could solve the problem and satisfy all players

i could support 2 options

1st option is to get back the 2 btc deposited and you both can talk about the rest

2nd option is to give him back the status of the account before cancellation and solve the problem and all satisfied at the end
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July 16, 2017, 07:44:11 PM
 #19

We do not push our bonuses to everyone, bonus information is on the completely separate page and usually only advanced dice gamblers are interested in them and newcomers are very much welcome to ask additional questions in the chat to mods or support.

We may consider removing "cancel" button completely and will notify users in advance that once bonus is claimed it cannot be cancelled however, this does NOT solve an issue where user just don't read the messages, in this scenario next complaint would be "I accidentally claimed a bonus and now I can't cancel it even though I don't wanna wager". So we are still looking for a more elegant solution and all suggestions are very much welcome.

Bonus algorithm has not been invented by DuckDice but adopted from dice practices, our mathematician department will run simulations and based on the results we may consider new or improved algorithm.

So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical", as Dre mentioned above this is to avoid the following scenario:
– make a deposit
– claim bonus
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus
– withdraw deposit
– deposit is again

..and here we have a loop.

As said earlier, this is a gambling, we give users a chance to win more and we NEVER ask questions on withdrawal.


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July 16, 2017, 09:32:26 PM
 #20

We do not push our bonuses to everyone, bonus information is on the completely separate page and usually only advanced dice gamblers are interested in them and newcomers are very much welcome to ask additional questions in the chat to mods or support.

We may consider removing "cancel" button completely and will notify users in advance that once bonus is claimed it cannot be cancelled however, this does NOT solve an issue where user just don't read the messages, in this scenario next complaint would be "I accidentally claimed a bonus and now I can't cancel it even though I don't wanna wager". So we are still looking for a more elegant solution and all suggestions are very much welcome.


-You are right but now the problem will be his own problem because you have the  rules backing you up  . Why you keep ignore that your site did wrong by not include the rules of bonus before claiming it !! . If this was on rules page that person would have not come post on this forums about this problem because simply there will be no problem .
- Making a 2 screens pop out or even 10 after he already claimed the bonus will not makeup for not having this mentioned on rules page . I am taking about the separated page for bonus nothing on it say that initial balance will get canceled  .

So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical", as Dre mentioned above this is to avoid the following scenario:
– make a deposit
– claim bonus
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus
– withdraw deposit
– deposit is again

..and here we have a loop.

As said earlier, this is a gambling, we give users a chance to win more and we NEVER ask questions on withdrawal.
 
There is simple fix for this just change the rules and make the (original balance unlocked and have to be used first ) that way there will never be a loop and your site will lose nothing if someone canceled the bonus  Wink .




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Avirunes
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July 17, 2017, 01:37:16 AM
 #21

We do not push our bonuses to everyone, bonus information is on the completely separate page and usually only advanced dice gamblers are interested in them and newcomers are very much welcome to ask additional questions in the chat to mods or support.

Then I think it requires much more fair implementation.

We may consider removing "cancel" button completely and will notify users in advance that once bonus is claimed it cannot be cancelled however, this does NOT solve an issue where user just don't read the messages, in this scenario next complaint would be "I accidentally claimed a bonus and now I can't cancel it even though I don't wanna wager". So we are still looking for a more elegant solution and all suggestions are very much welcome.

Not many users like wagering. Many gamblers realize how hard it is to meet wagering requirements and unlock the bonus in middle of game . So what do you think about them. Will it be good to remove "Cancel" button?

*actmyname presented how much difficult it is to claim bonus.*. And many user may feel to cancel it in middle of the game. I don't think removing "cancel" button is entirely a good call.

Maybe removing bonus system is the best call.


So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical",

In that case I simply want to point out where it is unethical.

(1) So what gives you the right on the users balance which he hasn't lost actually by betting?---- Is it ethical ?

Not all players do as what 1982dre said. Don't make it in this way just because some gamblers are doing bonus in a loop. In short "find an ethical way and not an unethical way (which you are doing by showing right over users balance)". I have pointed out why in my opinion it is unfair and if you still find that your dice bonus system presently is fair then despite being a player or a HR in intial stage of DuckDice , "Shady and unfair" are the only words that will pop out from my mouth regarding your dice site.


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|ROULETTE
MINES
TOWERS
DICE
CRASH
──── ─── ─
mammabitcoin2u
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July 17, 2017, 03:32:15 AM
 #22

We do not push our bonuses to everyone, bonus information is on the completely separate page and usually only advanced dice gamblers are interested in them and newcomers are very much welcome to ask additional questions in the chat to mods or support.

We may consider removing "cancel" button completely and will notify users in advance that once bonus is claimed it cannot be cancelled however, this does NOT solve an issue where user just don't read the messages, in this scenario next complaint would be "I accidentally claimed a bonus and now I can't cancel it even though I don't wanna wager". So we are still looking for a more elegant solution and all suggestions are very much welcome.

Bonus algorithm has not been invented by DuckDice but adopted from dice practices, our mathematician department will run simulations and based on the results we may consider new or improved algorithm.

So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical", as Dre mentioned above this is to avoid the following scenario:
– make a deposit
– claim bonus
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus
– withdraw deposit
– deposit is again

..and here we have a loop.

As said earlier, this is a gambling, we give users a chance to win more and we NEVER ask questions on withdrawal.



This is how it works:

– make a deposit
– claim bonus or not
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus (shouldn't allow a bonus to be cancelled, once applied the 30X 50X even 1000X applies)
– withdraw deposit REMAINING FUNDS
– MAYBE deposit is again

I deposit 100 and your bonus is 100% that means I have 200 to play with if I accept your bonus or it's forced upon me

I lose 25 I say forget this I want to withdraw and go

I should get my $75

But according to you............I lose everything

Please someone tell me I am wrong??  Otherwise, this is just an insane SCAM

~Be Wise & Scrutinize Everything~~Scammers are like roaches squash 1 there's millions more hiding~I will NEVER ask for a loan~I got plenty of my own ~ BIGGEST lie to date said about me: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2046485.msg20429473#new
aTriz
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July 17, 2017, 04:35:16 AM
 #23

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=917361

Reference Link:
Amount Scammed: 9 bitcoin

What happened::
Hello,

Nickname : Ozafejyw782

I am their biggest winner : https://duckdice.io/stats

I am a casino highroller, I like casinos, poker etc.  Today, I played for my first time on duckdice.io I saw on their bitcointalk's thread that they have a bonus 120%. Let's try it !

I deposited 2 BTC for my first deposit, claimed a bonus, set up 2FA. I was a bit surprised, I got 2 btc extra. I thought that will be like a poker bonus to clear. I can see that I have to clear it. Then I thought it will delete only the 2 BTC extra if I delete it.

Let's gamble ! I played and won from 4 bitcoin to 9.xx and 23% bonus cleared. A lot of beggars spammed me in PM. I got more than 20 private messages in 1 hour.

I had to go, I still didn't trust the website, small, young, not a good reputation(not a bad too) I decided to withdraw but I have my bonus. That's normal, I cannot withdraw.

I decided to cancel my bonus. Even if I lose my extra 2 BTC. It is safer with a young website like that. I click cancel and are you sure yes in 1 second, without reading anything ( My fault) but I never thought there was a shady feature like that.(The proof it is shady, the admin stan talked to me and told me they will change it on monday)

BOOM : 0 balance. I refresh : 0 balance.

I contacted the moderator : barcode. He was very helpful instead of the other moderators (except mharckie
 helpful as well). He told me to talk to the admin who was here : DuckHunt. He didn't answer me.

Then, I started to lose my temper and made a scandal in the chat and magic : an admin "Stan" answered me. He explained me that I decided to cancel my bonus and I had to read. The balance is cancelled. I explained him that's was a shady feature and I just want my account like before : 9.xx BTC balance and 23% bonus cleared. I will clear it and if they are lucky I will lose it.

I asked them if they had enough balance to keep a 10 btc max bet as well (at least 800 BTC) but no links, nothing.

Here their rules :

To claim bonus your balance must be greater or equal to deposit amount.
Your Balance will be locked while bonus is active. You can cancel bonus at any time.
Bonus must be wagered 55x to became a part of your balance.
Wagering contribution is 50% from bet amount.
Reload Bonus can be claimed only twice per day.

It is NOT written:  the balance will be cancelled as well but ONLY the bonus.

At the same time, the admin "stan" sent me a funky proposition : Deposit 5 bitcoin and I will see what I can do for you. IS IT A JOKE ? They stole me 7 BITCOIN and now they want 5 MORE ?

I wanted to get my money back 9 BITCOIN with the same 23% bonus cleared but now they tried to scam me against their own rules, I want the whole balance on my bitcoin address. I want them to give back the money of all the players who have been f***ed by this shady behavior.

STAY AWAY FROM duckdice.io

 


Oh god, I feel so bad for you. I thought this was just an old post when Bitcoin was only like 500 USD. Dude rip that 5000 USD, I guess when DuckDice.io canceled your winning that is debatable but they have no right to just take your deposits now. This isn't your fault, the site's terms were clear and when you cancel a bonus you shouldn't have to lose all the money you deposit in the first place, this is a pretty big sum and I would maybe recommend taking legal actions because what DuckDice is doing here is totally illegal and I dont want other people getting scammed.

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Avirunes
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July 17, 2017, 04:54:09 AM
 #24

-snip-
 This isn't your fault, the site's terms were clear and when you cancel a bonus you shouldn't have to lose all the money you deposit in the first place, .... -snip-

Site's term and conditions are nothing. Site owner should be able to put a valid reason behind all the terms and conditions which are ethical and reasonable for both site owners and its players. Let me say for example if i put a term that withdraw oa player will not be process until bitcoin drops back to 1000$ or so. Is it ethical? Sure i made it in terms and conditions but in the same way I am holding withdraw which ethically i should not hold.

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DuckDice.io
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July 17, 2017, 08:26:46 AM
 #25



So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical", as Dre mentioned above this is to avoid the following scenario:
– make a deposit
– claim bonus
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus
– withdraw deposit
– deposit is again

..and here we have a loop.

 
There is simple fix for this just change the rules and make the (original balance unlocked and have to be used first ) that way there will never be a loop and your site will lose nothing if someone canceled the bonus  Wink .



sounds interesting.

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panjul07
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July 17, 2017, 09:48:58 AM
 #26

We do not push our bonuses to everyone, bonus information is on the completely separate page and usually only advanced dice gamblers are interested in them and newcomers are very much welcome to ask additional questions in the chat to mods or support.

We may consider removing "cancel" button completely and will notify users in advance that once bonus is claimed it cannot be cancelled however, this does NOT solve an issue where user just don't read the messages, in this scenario next complaint would be "I accidentally claimed a bonus and now I can't cancel it even though I don't wanna wager". So we are still looking for a more elegant solution and all suggestions are very much welcome.

Bonus algorithm has not been invented by DuckDice but adopted from dice practices, our mathematician department will run simulations and based on the results we may consider new or improved algorithm.

So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical", as Dre mentioned above this is to avoid the following scenario:
– make a deposit
– claim bonus
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus
– withdraw deposit
– deposit is again

..and here we have a loop.

As said earlier, this is a gambling, we give users a chance to win more and we NEVER ask questions on withdrawal.



This is how it works:

– make a deposit
– claim bonus or not
– betting unsuccessful
– cancel bonus (shouldn't allow a bonus to be cancelled, once applied the 30X 50X even 1000X applies)
– withdraw deposit REMAINING FUNDS
– MAYBE deposit is again

I deposit 100 and your bonus is 100% that means I have 200 to play with if I accept your bonus or it's forced upon me

I lose 25 I say forget this I want to withdraw and go

I should get my $75

But according to you............I lose everything

Please someone tell me I am wrong??  Otherwise, this is just an insane SCAM

Looks like you have the same opinion with me, as long as I know most deposit bonuses will use the initial deposit first to wager and if we cancel the bonus then we will still have some balance like your example. In other case, if we win while using the initial deposit then we cancel the bonus so will will lose all the winning but still have the initial deposit.
Lose everything should be only happen when players has lost all the initial deposit and use the bonus balance then decided to cancel the bonus, no matter the players win or lose while playing with the bonus. Just my 2 cents

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July 17, 2017, 07:30:58 PM
 #27

Here is our final decision:

1. Bonus algorithm:

You may not like our Bonus algorithm and if you don't like it no one is forcing you to claim it. Users are notified about exact amount that will be subtracted from the balance and there is a specially designed confirmation screen where user confirm and agree with this. DuckDice shall not be liable for users who don't read confirmation screens.

Many members in this thread gave us their insight on how Bonus algorithm should work based on their opinion and we are very grateful to all of them. We may use this expertise in the future but this does not mean that current algorithm is flawed.

2. Refund:

DuckDice will not "negotiate with terrorists". We see this case as a pure blackmail and therefore DuckDice will not make any refund. There is nothing shady or scammy, it is user's responsibility to read confirmation messages. Better make a thread and ask how many members won big with our bonuses.

3. Solution:

The initial deposit of user Ozafejyw782 was 2 BTC and we will give this 2 BTC for charity. Transaction id will be added shortly

We have a negative trust because of this case now, but this doesn't frighten us, we believe that our position is correct and we will just regain user trust.

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khufuking
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July 17, 2017, 08:46:13 PM
 #28

To be honest I do not know what do you guys are thinking or how you came to this decision . Do you really think that warning someone that you gonna kill him  even 10 times will make you not guilty !! Because that what happened here ! you have no right to take his initial bonus ( even your own rules not support you ) and he had on his account 9 BTC to cover the bonus and his initial deposit no rules in the world can allow you to take his initial deposit . no matter how many warnings you put it will not make it right Smiley .

As much as I like the fact that you guys did not ignore this thread and you was active trying to solve it ( respect for that ) . But taking money that clearly you have no right to take = scam weather you gonna give to to charity or not . Because simply it is not yours to give .




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actmyname
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July 17, 2017, 09:50:58 PM
 #29

1. Bonus algorithm:

You may not like our Bonus algorithm and if you don't like it no one is forcing you to claim it. Users are notified about exact amount that will be subtracted from the balance and there is a specially designed confirmation screen where user confirm and agree with this. DuckDice shall not be liable for users who don't read confirmation screens.

First of all, it wasn't outlined in your terms about how the entire balance was canceled. When a user claims the bonus, it's too late to go back and they are forced to wager 110x or just simply lose their entire balance. That is misleading. In that case, why put a cancel button there in the first place if it's just going to make them lose all their funds?



2. Refund:

There is nothing shady or scammy, it is user's responsibility to read confirmation messages. Better make a thread and ask how many members won big with our bonuses.

Suppose you deposit at my site with 1 BTC but when you withdraw I tell you that you are forced to tip 50% of all your winnings to a random chat member otherwise the balance is taken. You can not make rules appear after the fact when they are not outlined in your terms. That is simply unethical.

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July 18, 2017, 04:45:14 AM
 #30

1. Bonus algorithm:

You may not like our Bonus algorithm and if you don't like it no one is forcing you to claim it. Users are notified about exact amount that will be subtracted from the balance and there is a specially designed confirmation screen where user confirm and agree with this. DuckDice shall not be liable for users who don't read confirmation screens.

First of all, it wasn't outlined in your terms about how the entire balance was canceled. When a user claims the bonus, it's too late to go back and they are forced to wager 110x or just simply lose their entire balance. That is misleading. In that case, why put a cancel button there in the first place if it's just going to make them lose all their funds?



2. Refund:

There is nothing shady or scammy, it is user's responsibility to read confirmation messages. Better make a thread and ask how many members won big with our bonuses.

Suppose you deposit at my site with 1 BTC but when you withdraw I tell you that you are forced to tip 50% of all your winnings to a random chat member otherwise the balance is taken. You can not make rules appear after the fact when they are not outlined in your terms. That is simply unethical.

If you claim the bonus and cancel it directly you still got your initial deposit. The locked balance grows while wagering.

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July 18, 2017, 04:52:29 AM
 #31

If you claim the bonus and cancel it directly you still got your initial deposit. The locked balance grows while wagering.

Then what's this?

So far we disagree that canceling not only winnings but a deposit as well is "shady" or "unethical"

https://archive.is/8f6Bz

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July 18, 2017, 07:07:20 AM
 #32

If u were the owner of the site would you let someone use ur money to play against you and without risking their own money they can get profit from you.Its like suicidal.You wont do that,of course you will make agreement.And in Duckdice.Io it is to have a wagering requirement.After all if you finish those requirement all balances will be yours.
Well If you havent try or fully understand how does the bonus on Duckdice.Io does,It goes like this.
1.You made Deposit,(You can play with your own money or Claim bonus to have additional ammo but you need to complete those wagering requirement).Not pushing you to claim it.(Optional)
2.You already claim the bonus but before you start rolling you realize that you dont have the skills to finish the wagering requirement.(Here You can Cancel the Bonus and at the same time Your deposit amount will be refunded.Why and How?Simply because you never touch it.
3.You decided to roll and wager.The locked balance goes bigger while your unlocking the bonus.(Note:Locked balance is different the Locked Volume.).And as time Goes by Your locked balance can be greater than the current Balance.(Thats what happen to oza thats why all his balance had been cancelled)
4.You are in the middle of the wagering and youd realized you cant finish it.You click on the cancel button.(Here,a message will show up saying that the locked balance will be subtracted from your current balance.)two cases here:
       your current balance is greater than the locked balance=will give
       x amount during cancelation,
       your current balance is less than the locked balance = you will
       get nothing.(this is what happen to him)
5.You finish the wagering requirements.Congratulations.All balance
    is yours.Site will take nothing from you.You can withdraw All.


I personally had claim the said bonus and succesfully unlocked it.
With the help of old players and Mods especially I understand how does the bonus goes.And so far this is the first time i heard an issue about Duckdice.Io bonuses.A user's mistake that lead to cancellation of his balance.Not reading a message upon cancellation isnt a site mistake so where and when the scam happen?

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July 18, 2017, 10:45:56 PM
 #33

OP when you are playing with high amounts of money, it's not time of experiments and in this situation it's better to play on highly trusted dice website.

DuckDice.io
You have to show us what happens before deposit and not after that because on that time it's late (I mean your post with pics).

Nothing personal but to my mind you deserve red trust. You offer bonus which is just legit way of scamming. The rules you offered for claiming that bonus isn't correct way and you know it also because it sounds almost impossible to players to claim bonus and you know 99% you will profit and players will lose their deposit. If I deposit and don't want to fight for claiming bonus anymore, it's players choise to deny or continue playing for your "bonus".
Let's explain, I deposited 1 btc and got bonus. I have to wager 1btc x55 = loss (yes it is even on 98% winning chanse and you know it), 0.5btc x 110 = loss again, 0.1 x 550 = loss and etc and etc, you are winning, sounds well.

I have one suggest for you, what about to make dice and offer 100x bonus if you will be able to wager 10000000000000x. Good idea, not?

But still to my mind that happens because people won't realize when casino offers you 55x deposit wager, they strongly believe that they win and you lose because casino exist for profit, not for charity.

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July 19, 2017, 03:56:23 PM
 #34

OP when you are playing with high amounts of money, it's not time of experiments and in this situation it's better to play on highly trusted dice website.

DuckDice.io
You have to show us what happens before deposit and not after that because on that time it's late (I mean your post with pics).

Nothing personal but to my mind you deserve red trust. You offer bonus which is just legit way of scamming.

Indeed, duckdice deserves his red-trust (and more red-trust). They are shady, arrogant and they scammed me at least for 2 bitcoins.

And don't make me laugh with your charity, it is my money you have no rights to use it. I don't want to give it to your bulgarian scammer charity.

It is easy to make good impression when you only have small money  issues to resolve. However when you have an issue with  a higher amount of money, like mine, it is now that all people here can see that your admins are greedy and absolutely unfair.
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July 20, 2017, 12:46:17 PM
 #35


3. Solution:

The initial deposit of user Ozafejyw782 was 2 BTC and we will give this 2 BTC for charity. Transaction id will be added shortly

Is it done already? Have you sent the 2btc "for charity"? You said that you will add fhe txid shortly but it has been 3days but I see no txid. Did I miss something here?
I'm curious, will this charity clear your account from the negative trust and will you add more terms on the deposit bonus information to make it clear and this kind of thing happen again in the future?

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July 21, 2017, 03:18:03 AM
 #36

Indeed, duckdice deserves his red-trust (and more red-trust). They are shady, arrogant and they scammed me at least for 2 bitcoins.
Voiding the whole balance was indeed the wrong way to go.

2. Refund:
DuckDice will not "negotiate with terrorists". We see this case as a pure blackmail and therefore DuckDice will not make any refund. There is nothing shady or scammy, it is user's responsibility to read confirmation messages.
Seriously? Terrorists?

3. Solution:
The initial deposit of user Ozafejyw782 was 2 BTC and we will give this 2 BTC for charity. Transaction id will be added shortly
Doesnt sound like a solution to me. Neither for the user, nor for anyone else playing with your bonus terms in the future.

We have a negative trust because of this case now, but this doesn't frighten us, we believe that our position is correct and we will just regain user trust.[/size]
Good luck with that.


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July 21, 2017, 03:49:40 AM
 #37

Terrorists? Now how the owner found the user is terrorist?
Never seen a admin of any site talking like this....ofc shady behaviour

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July 21, 2017, 04:55:37 AM
Last edit: July 21, 2017, 06:04:56 AM by game-protect
 #38

You offer to cancel the bonus, but then in reality you cancel the whole balance inclusive deposit and winnings and this is the criminal offense of false representation!

2 Fraud by false representation

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2) A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading, and

(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a) the person making the representation, or

(b) any other person.

(4) A representation may be express or implied.

(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).


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July 21, 2017, 05:06:53 AM
 #39

You offer to cancel the bonus, but then in reality you cancel the hole balance inclusive deposit and winnings and this is the criminal offense of false representation!

2 Fraud by false representation

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2) A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading, and

(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a) the person making the representation, or

(b) any other person.

(4) A representation may be express or implied.

(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).



You only lose your whole balance if you are unlocking for a while. If you unlock after a few bets, you just lose a little amount.

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July 21, 2017, 05:17:22 AM
Last edit: July 21, 2017, 05:56:49 AM by game-protect
 #40

You only lose your whole balance if you are unlocking for a while. If you unlock after a few bets, you just lose a little amount.
If I unlock for a while, is it stated "cancel your bonus" or is it stated "cancel your whole balance"?

Why would anyone agree to cancel his whole balance? If you continue to play nothing worse than exactly this can happen!

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July 21, 2017, 05:25:40 AM
 #41

The fact that the user was + when he canceled the bonus and they cleared his whole balance is criminal. Then they take the stance that they will donate his 2btc deposit(which they haven't showing a txid doing yet) and refund him nothing is also criminal. At the very least he should have been able to cancel the bonus and be left with a 2btc balance to play as he pleased.

The site is acting very shady with this situation and deposit bonus and i personally wouldn't deposit a dime there.

The neg tag will stay from me until they refund the user his 2btc. Even then i would only consider changing to a neutral tag.

 
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July 21, 2017, 05:45:54 AM
 #42

You only lose your whole balance if you are unlocking for a while. If you unlock after a few bets, you just lose a little amount.
If I unlock for a while, is it stated "cancel your bonus" or is it stated "cancel your hole balance"?
Lol it is whole Balance not hole... sounding naughty

Why would anyone agree to cancel his hole balance? If you continue to play nothing worse than exactly this can happen!

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July 21, 2017, 06:01:11 AM
Last edit: July 21, 2017, 06:12:27 AM by game-protect
 #43

You only lose your whole balance if you are unlocking for a while. If you unlock after a few bets, you just lose a little amount.
If I unlock for a while, is it stated "cancel your bonus" or is it stated "cancel your hole balance"?
Lol it is whole Balance not hole... sounding naughty

Why would anyone agree to cancel his hole balance? If you continue to play nothing worse than exactly this can happen!
The balance is like a hole, empty and no value!  Wink

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July 21, 2017, 06:12:29 AM
 #44

This is why one should always clarify bonus rules. It was not clear in the first place. From my reading, it seems clear that "deposit is locked". Bonus is also "locked" and only added to balance after it is wagered.

Cancelling bonus should only mean what is says: cancelling bonus.

You can adjust the wording and meaning any way, but any justice system will use logic and ethics. You cannot cancel a bonus and lose your deposit.

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July 21, 2017, 10:29:52 AM
 #45

The Bonus campaign will be closed soon (just because one member didn't read his confirmation messages)

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July 21, 2017, 11:41:32 AM
 #46

You only lose your whole balance if you are unlocking for a while. If you unlock after a few bets, you just lose a little amount.
If I unlock for a while, is it stated "cancel your bonus" or is it stated "cancel your hole balance"?
Lol it is whole Balance not hole... sounding naughty

Why would anyone agree to cancel his hole balance? If you continue to play nothing worse than exactly this can happen!
The balance is like a hole, empty and no value!  Wink
Ty for informing us about their shady behaviour...gonna avoid this site meh 😉

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July 21, 2017, 11:49:06 AM
 #47

Here is our final decision:

1. Bonus algorithm:

You may not like our Bonus algorithm and if you don't like it no one is forcing you to claim it. Users are notified about exact amount that will be subtracted from the balance and there is a specially designed confirmation screen where user confirm and agree with this. DuckDice shall not be liable for users who don't read confirmation screens.

Many members in this thread gave us their insight on how Bonus algorithm should work based on their opinion and we are very grateful to all of them. We may use this expertise in the future but this does not mean that current algorithm is flawed.

2. Refund:

DuckDice will not "negotiate with terrorists". We see this case as a pure blackmail and therefore DuckDice will not make any refund. There is nothing shady or scammy, it is user's responsibility to read confirmation messages. Better make a thread and ask how many members won big with our bonuses.

3. Solution:

The initial deposit of user Ozafejyw782 was 2 BTC and we will give this 2 BTC for charity. Transaction id will be added shortly

We have a negative trust because of this case now, but this doesn't frighten us, we believe that our position is correct and we will just regain user trust.


Wow for real that 3rd line in your case... I see it as a pure message to OP " Do whatever you want but you will not get your deposit back "
This is the worst case I have ever seen when a gambling website saying they don't care about their respect on this forum.
Also, you called OP a terrorist can you prove it?
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July 21, 2017, 12:40:14 PM
 #48

The Bonus campaign will be closed soon (just because one member didn't read his confirmation messages)
Hahahah this is one classic reply you really blaming Op for your fail !!!

The bonus campaign will be closed soon (Because we discovered it is broken and probably no one will ever take it again after saw how we ripoff anyone who get it  ) .

By the way no TX link for any kind of transaction to a charity have been posted  until this moment >

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July 23, 2017, 04:15:20 AM
Last edit: July 23, 2017, 04:31:16 AM by RHavar
 #49

The initial deposit of user Ozafejyw782 was 2 BTC and we will give this 2 BTC for charity. Transaction id will be added shortly

While I'm not sure this will materially change the situation; I do think this is a great gesture regardless. If you're still planning on doing it: I'd like to recommend a pretty great site http://www.givewell.org/ which does a lot of research on charities and the effectiveness of your donation.
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July 23, 2017, 06:44:03 AM
 #50

@Duckdice it is sort of disgraceful how you're referring to the people playing at your site as "terrorists" and "blackmailers"

Quote
DuckDice will not "negotiate with terrorists". We see this case as a pure blackmail and therefore DuckDice will not make any refund. There is nothing shady or scammy, it is user's responsibility to read confirmation messages. Better make a thread and ask how many members won big with our bonuses.

I can assure you that you're the only company in the entire bitcoin world to say that when someone cancels their bonus their whole balance before that goes away with it. This is just unfair to the user, whether or not you made it clear. Plus he was in the positive, why would he logically cancel his balance and donate them to you?

Donating to charity isn't going to solve the issue. Coins belong to your customer and he hasn't given consent of giving it to anyone. Your rep isn't going to change as long as if you don't solve this issue. Plus, your customer WON money. If you were to donate the btc to charity, donate everything that he has won, not just the portion he deposited.

 
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July 23, 2017, 10:59:58 AM
 #51

How can you prove that this man is terrorist? If you can not, then why do you say that? Lying again?
Hmm, I think not this man but you are "terrorist". Who gave you permission to use and spend his money as you wish? And after all you think that your reputation and trust is growing? haha, curious.
Would be glad if you edit your html page a little with text: Duckdice will stole your money if you participate in bonus.

Can't understand, did you create deposit bonus not for players but for your pocket?

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July 23, 2017, 11:21:43 AM
 #52

How can you prove that this man is terrorist? If you can not, then why do you say that? Lying again?
Hmm, I think not this man but you are "terrorist". Who gave you permission to use and spend his money as you wish? And after all you think that your reputation and trust is growing? haha, curious.
Would be glad if you edit your html page a little with text: Duckdice will stole your money if you participate in bonus.

Can't understand, did you create deposit bonus not for players but for your pocket?

Lol, bonus is a risk for both. A lot if users won with the bonus, even High rollers like Negan4.

How can a site steal money if the user was behind the buttons.

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July 23, 2017, 11:44:18 AM
 #53

How can a site steal money if the user was behind the buttons.
Making the user acknowledge and confirm the action doesn't make the action itself any better.
The underlying rules are flawed, not how they are executed.
Also, as shown several times, the users are trapped in the bonus. You fail to address this issue or comment on it.

A lot if users won with the bonus, even High rollers like Negan4.
We're trying to discuss this case, and everything you can say in your defence is "others are winning from it".
Irrelevant.


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July 23, 2017, 11:51:14 AM
 #54

How can a site steal money if the user was behind the buttons.
Making the user acknowledge and confirm the action doesn't make the action itself any better.
The underlying rules are flawed, not how they are executed.
Also, as shown several times, the users are trapped in the bonus. You fail to address this issue or comment on it.

A lot if users won with the bonus, even High rollers like Negan4.
We're trying to discuss this case, and everything you can say in your defence is "others are winning from it".
Irrelevant.

I had comment already a lot if times in this issue. It's not me who made up the rules. Is this the best way for the bonus? I don't know, but that's how it worked.

The point is that everyone talking about that's made up to scam users. That's not the case here. Maybe the rules weren't that clear but it was never the intention to scam users with it.

As mention earlier is DD gonna stop the bonus for now so it won't happen again.

.....1% HOUSE EDGE.....
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July 23, 2017, 12:01:28 PM
 #55

It's not me who made up the rules. Is this the best way for the bonus? I don't know, but that's how it worked.
You're just here to defend them, gotcha.

The point is that everyone talking about that's made up to scam users. That's not the case here. Maybe the rules weren't that clear but it was never the intention to scam users with it.
We said it was unethical, and it still is.
They were not just not clear, they were not existent.

but it was never the intention to scam users with it.
Yet it happened.

As mention earlier is DD gonna stop the bonus for now so it won't happen again.
Once again, not relevant to this case.
Sure, it avoids future incidents, but what happens with this one?


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July 23, 2017, 02:21:36 PM
 #56

@DuckDice.io, if I understand the facts correctly: You had a user with say: 9 BTC and 23% through his wager requirements. When he canceled the bonus, he ended up with nothing?

If so: The cancel button wasn't even a fair option to present him in the first place, as it literally has zero upside for the user. Even if this deal was signed and witnessed, it wouldn't be considered valid in most places, as under common law it fails a basic test known as "consideration"; which effectively says that for a deal to be fair and enforceable each party should receive a benefit as well as suffer a detriment.

Considering the user received absolutely nothing in return  (especially if he didn't read or understand), I would consider it highly unethical to not give him the option of reversing it, and restoring his account back to the state it was before hitting the button.

--

P.S. I think the donation to charity would be a fantastic gesture as well, but less important than ensuring this is made right.
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July 23, 2017, 09:36:51 PM
 #57

@DuckDice.io, if I understand the facts correctly: You had a user with say: 9 BTC and 23% through his wager requirements. When he canceled the bonus, he ended up with nothing?

If so: The cancel button wasn't even a fair option to present him in the first place, as it literally has zero upside for the user. Even if this deal was signed and witnessed, it wouldn't be considered valid in most places, as under common law it fails a basic test known as "consideration"; which effectively says that for a deal to be fair and enforceable each party should receive a benefit as well as suffer a detriment.

Considering the user received absolutely nothing in return  (especially if he didn't read or understand), I would consider it highly unethical to not give him the option of reversing it, and restoring his account back to the state it was before hitting the button.

--

P.S. I think the donation to charity would be a fantastic gesture as well, but less important than ensuring this is made right.
If they donate anything to charity, it should be from the 7btc the user was ahead. If the user isn't refunded his 2btc deposit and they use that to donate to charity, i will never adjust or remove my rating.

Their bonus terms were flawed and 100% in the houses favor. They are blatantly trying to screw you as a player if you accept the bonus. If your bonus is cancelled and you lose all your balance, then that shouldn't even be given as an option.

 
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July 23, 2017, 09:49:53 PM
 #58

If they donate anything to charity, it should be from the 7btc the user was ahead. If the user isn't refunded his 2btc deposit and they use that to donate to charity, i will never adjust or remove my rating.

OP should just be given 2 BTC. That was the user's intention, anyway.

Their bonus terms were flawed and 100% in the houses favor. They are blatantly trying to screw you as a player if you accept the bonus. If your bonus is cancelled and you lose all your balance, then that shouldn't even be given as an option.

Bolded is true. I'll clear up the misconception which I myself believed.
The way it works is that the locked balance is subtracted from the player's current balance.

The locked balance increases with gross profit but does not decrease with any losing wagers. What this means is that if someone bets their entire balance twice, winning and losing, then upon cancellation the locked balance will be greater than their current balance thus resulting in the entire balance being wiped.

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July 23, 2017, 11:58:01 PM
 #59

You only lose your whole balance if you are unlocking for a while. If you unlock after a few bets, you just lose a little amount.
If I unlock for a while, is it stated "cancel your bonus" or is it stated "cancel your whole balance"?

Why would anyone agree to cancel his whole balance? If you continue to play nothing worse than exactly this can happen!
Got you here, because even after for a while it is still stated Cancel Bonus and not Cancel whole Balance!

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July 24, 2017, 09:16:33 AM
 #60

@DuckDice.io, if I understand the facts correctly: You had a user with say: 9 BTC and 23% through his wager requirements. When he canceled the bonus, he ended up with nothing?

If so: The cancel button wasn't even a fair option to present him in the first place, as it literally has zero upside for the user. Even if this deal was signed and witnessed, it wouldn't be considered valid in most places, as under common law it fails a basic test known as "consideration"; which effectively says that for a deal to be fair and enforceable each party should receive a benefit as well as suffer a detriment.

Considering the user received absolutely nothing in return  (especially if he didn't read or understand), I would consider it highly unethical to not give him the option of reversing it, and restoring his account back to the state it was before hitting the button.

--

P.S. I think the donation to charity would be a fantastic gesture as well, but less important than ensuring this is made right.
If they donate anything to charity, it should be from the 7btc the user was ahead. If the user isn't refunded his 2btc deposit and they use that to donate to charity, i will never adjust or remove my rating.

Their bonus terms were flawed and 100% in the houses favor. They are blatantly trying to screw you as a player if you accept the bonus. If your bonus is cancelled and you lose all your balance, then that shouldn't even be given as an option.

7btc is a great thing to make but makes no sense in this case, the bonus was only 20% unlocked – so 5 btc is still not a profit but something you need to unlock first.

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July 24, 2017, 09:31:16 AM
 #61

7btc is a great thing to make but makes no sense in this case, the bonus was only 20% unlocked – so 5 btc is still not a profit but something you need to unlock first.
Taking the whole balance including the initial deposit doesn't make any sense either.
If you argue with logic, also use it whe determining your cancelation policy.

If the user isn't refunded his 2btc deposit i will never adjust or remove my rating.
I concur.


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1982dre
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July 24, 2017, 01:03:58 PM
 #62

You only lose your whole balance if you are unlocking for a while. If you unlock after a few bets, you just lose a little amount.
If I unlock for a while, is it stated "cancel your bonus" or is it stated "cancel your whole balance"?

Why would anyone agree to cancel his whole balance? If you continue to play nothing worse than exactly this can happen!
Got you here, because even after for a while it is still stated Cancel Bonus and not Cancel whole Balance!

Correct because if you cancel the bonus after two rolls you won't lose your whole balance. Just a small amount. The locked balance is getting bigger while rolling.

So get your stats right first before starting such sad site  Cheesy

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actmyname
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July 24, 2017, 02:48:13 PM
 #63

Correct because if you cancel the bonus after two rolls you won't lose your whole balance. Just a small amount. The locked balance is getting bigger while rolling.

So get your stats right first before starting such sad site  Cheesy

I bet my entire balance two times. Two rolls.

I win one and I lose the subsequent one.

Locked balance goes up past my balance.

I'm now forced to play.

So get your stats right before starting such sad site Roll Eyes

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July 24, 2017, 05:42:40 PM
 #64

Correct because if you cancel the bonus after two rolls you won't lose your whole balance. Just a small amount. The locked balance is getting bigger while rolling.

So get your stats right first before starting such sad site  Cheesy

I bet my entire balance two times. Two rolls.

I win one and I lose the subsequent one.

Locked balance goes up past my balance.

I'm now forced to play.

So get your stats right before starting such sad site Roll Eyes

So now we got 1982dre the "Mod of DuckDice" to add to Feedback for participating in a scam?

trying to get my "stats" right Wink

~Be Wise & Scrutinize Everything~~Scammers are like roaches squash 1 there's millions more hiding~I will NEVER ask for a loan~I got plenty of my own ~ BIGGEST lie to date said about me: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2046485.msg20429473#new
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July 24, 2017, 06:12:06 PM
 #65

7btc is a great thing to make but makes no sense in this case, the bonus was only 20% unlocked – so 5 btc is still not a profit but something you need to unlock first.

I can't for the life of me understand why you don't just restore your players account to the state it was before he canceled his bonus?

Him canceling it was obviously a misunderstanding, the user received no gain and no potential gain by doing so. Reverting it seems like the bare min you can do.
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July 25, 2017, 09:25:30 AM
 #66

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1676313.msg20368185#msg20368185

1. we've disabled deposit bonuses and currently working on a new algorithm based on your feedback and a new detailed and clear bonus policy.
2. we've refunded the initial deposit to Ozafejyw782 (it's already on a balance). There were people mentioning that we should revert the balance to the moment before cancellation – and this would be the easiest and acceptable solution for everyone, however (unfortunately) this is not technically possible, we just don't have this possibility.

So we believe now this issue has been resolved.

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July 25, 2017, 10:25:31 AM
 #67

I am really glad that you guys did the right thing . It is always great to see some of the scam accusations threads get solved and end in a good way .
Glad that OP got his money back And I  hope that members who gave you neg rating reconsider removing it after OP confirm the receive of the money .

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July 25, 2017, 12:11:23 PM
 #68

I am really glad that you guys did the right thing . It is always great to see some of the scam accusations threads get solved and end in a good way .
Glad that OP got his money back And I  hope that members who gave you neg rating reconsider removing it after OP confirm the receive of the money .

From the very beginning of this issue, we had a principal in this case, we thought our rules were sufficient and OP attitude looked like he only wanted a scandal and not to find a solution.

Despite all this, bitcointalk community is a valuable source of information and since so many people wanted us to change our mind we decided to drop our stubbornness and trust the community.

We won't quit an idea with having deposit bonuses but will rework cancellation algorithm and conduct a detailed guide for Bonus rules. Our current Bonus rules are short now not because we want to mislead someone but because we spend lots of time on site improvements. e.g. today we've released security improvement and in a few weeks, we will introduce complete redesign.

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marlboroza
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July 25, 2017, 01:38:45 PM
 #69

Another player got his money back because community pushed gambling site to return money.
Quote
despite what we think in this situation we decided to make as our community suggests
If there wasn't bitcointalk this guy would never see his money again. Roll Eyes

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July 25, 2017, 02:58:34 PM
 #70

I am really glad that you guys did the right thing . It is always great to see some of the scam accusations threads get solved and end in a good way .
Glad that OP got his money back And I  hope that members who gave you neg rating reconsider removing it after OP confirm the receive of the money .

From the very beginning of this issue, we had a principal in this case, we thought our rules were sufficient and OP attitude looked like he only wanted a scandal and not to find a solution.

Despite all this, bitcointalk community is a valuable source of information and since so many people wanted us to change our mind we decided to drop our stubbornness and trust the community.

We won't quit an idea with having deposit bonuses but will rework cancellation algorithm and conduct a detailed guide for Bonus rules. Our current Bonus rules are short now not because we want to mislead someone but because we spend lots of time on site improvements. e.g. today we've released security improvement and in a few weeks, we will introduce complete redesign.
You will definitely regain the the community trust besides i know how good duckdice.io is.

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July 25, 2017, 04:23:47 PM
 #71

From the very beginning of this issue, we had a principal in this case, we thought our rules were sufficient and OP attitude looked like he only wanted a scandal and not to find a solution.
You took his 2BTC balance for no reason and you are saying OP wanted a scandal? So you are victim now? Jesus.
Despite all this, bitcointalk community is a valuable source of information and since so many people wanted us to change our mind we decided to drop our stubbornness and trust the community.
You've got negative trust and you knew that will affect your casino in negative way. This is the only reason you decided to return money.
You will definitely regain the the community trust besides i know how good duckdice.io is.
Not my. Please pull your head out of duck's ass.

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game-protect
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July 25, 2017, 08:42:24 PM
Last edit: July 28, 2017, 02:05:12 AM by game-protect
 #72

You only lose your whole balance if you are unlocking for a while. If you unlock after a few bets, you just lose a little amount.
If I unlock for a while, is it stated "cancel your bonus" or is it stated "cancel your whole balance"?

Why would anyone agree to cancel his whole balance? If you continue to play nothing worse than exactly this can happen!
Got you here, because even after for a while it is still stated Cancel Bonus and not Cancel whole Balance!

Correct because if you cancel the bonus after two rolls you won't lose your whole balance. Just a small amount.
Are you not able to understand that it is the criminal offense of fraud to ask me to cancel my 2 BTC bonus and then cancel my whole balance of 7 BTC?


The locked balance is getting bigger while rolling.
So the more I play, the more rake I pay to your house, the more money you will steal from my balance? Cheesy


So get your stats right first before starting such sad site  Cheesy
While Game Protect is indeed a sad site for shady criminals like you, I have no idea what is wrong with my stats?

If you put "duckdice.io scam" into google = first page and second entry = good stats  Smiley


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1676313.msg20368185#msg20368185

1. we've disabled deposit bonuses and currently working on a new algorithm based on your feedback and a new detailed and clear bonus policy.

2. we've refunded the initial deposit to Ozafejyw782 (it's already on a balance). There were people mentioning that we should revert the balance to the moment before cancellation – and this would be the easiest and acceptable solution for everyone, however (unfortunately) this is not technically possible, we just don't have this possibility.

So we believe now this issue has been resolved.
Wrong belief!

He clicked the |Cancel Bonus| button and never agreed to cancel his whole balance and therefore your move is juridical not valid and you have to restore his account like it was prior to clicking your fake |Cancel Bonus| button.

If you can not do this technically, then this is your fault and you have to give him 8.15 BTC or at least his 2 BTC deposit and his 5 BTC winnings.

Quote from: Duckdice.io scam
Your Balance will be locked while bonus is active. You can cancel bonus at any time.
Bonus must be wagered 55x to became a part of your balance.
1) According to your terms, the bonus was not part of his balance, so the 5 BTC win was solely based on his 2 BTC deposit.

2) 55x wagering of 2 BTC bonus = 110 BTC minus 23% (25 BTC) already wagered = 85 BTC left to wager to get the 2 BTC bonus

1% house edge of 85 BTC to wager = 0.85 BTC loss.  

So if you restore his account balance of 9 BTC (2 BTC deposit + 5 BTC win + 2 BTC bonus) and he will wager the required 85 BTC to get the bonus, he will statistically lose 0.85 BTC and his account balance will be statistically 8.15 BTC instead of the only 2 BTC deposit you gave him!

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July 25, 2017, 11:08:07 PM
 #73

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1676313.msg20368185#msg20368185

1. we've disabled deposit bonuses and currently working on a new algorithm based on your feedback and a new detailed and clear bonus policy.
2. we've refunded the initial deposit to Ozafejyw782 (it's already on a balance). There were people mentioning that we should revert the balance to the moment before cancellation – and this would be the easiest and acceptable solution for everyone, however (unfortunately) this is not technically possible, we just don't have this possibility.

So we believe now this issue has been resolved.


You know, I am not even going to remove your rating, just make it more "accurate" as time goes on. I have my reasons for this as I will explain.

Had it not been from pressure from the community, you would never have performed this act of refunding this user BTC that was rightfully his in the amount of 2 BTC. This shows that had it not been from pressure from other users here, you would have not given the BTC back and continued to pretend like this was an attack on you and the site. While I am glad to see you refund him, I still think your actions are worthy of a (for now) permanent tag, though I will change it to show that you gave OP his money back. I also applaud you for changing the bonus system, lets see you make it fair for both you and your customer.

Waiting for proof from OP that he got his money back and I will change the rating.

My only payment address: 1ZephertJThxkHih7XcaUHBkMSnvkTt5u
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July 26, 2017, 01:31:47 PM
 #74

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1676313.msg20368185#msg20368185

1. we've disabled deposit bonuses and currently working on a new algorithm based on your feedback and a new detailed and clear bonus policy.
2. we've refunded the initial deposit to Ozafejyw782 (it's already on a balance). There were people mentioning that we should revert the balance to the moment before cancellation – and this would be the easiest and acceptable solution for everyone, however (unfortunately) this is not technically possible, we just don't have this possibility.

So we believe now this issue has been resolved.


Hello,

To be honest, I am not very happy.

1. You called me a "terrorist" when you were keeping my balance. How funny..

2. You wrote that I was only looking for a scandal. I ended up writing a scam accusations because your co-admin ignored me, some of your mods were laughing at me and you asked me to deposit again to find a solution. You really have no shame...

3. You lied to everyone because you wrote that it was the first time this sort of issue happens. But when we started talking together in PM on Duckdice, you told me that this has already happened and you never refunded anyone.
How many people were just too shy to write a scam accusation against you? You will refund them, won't you?

4. And the funniest part : you can not revert my account to 23% bonus and 9.xx BTC balance. It is just you don't want to let the players win on your website. I deposited 2 BTC, my stats are + 5.088 BTC and I should be happy to get 2 BTC after 10 days ?

I'd like to thank the great bitcointalk community. Everyone who wrote a support message/ red trust on  their account before my message, I would like to share with you a part of my unfull refund. You can send me your bitcoin addresses in PM. I will give those people some coins, because we did it all together.


 I have never been treated like that by the casino in my whole life. I strongly recommend to everyone here to avoid Duck Dice.

The case is half resolved.
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July 26, 2017, 01:58:26 PM
 #75

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1676313.msg20368185#msg20368185

1. we've disabled deposit bonuses and currently working on a new algorithm based on your feedback and a new detailed and clear bonus policy.
2. we've refunded the initial deposit to Ozafejyw782 (it's already on a balance). There were people mentioning that we should revert the balance to the moment before cancellation – and this would be the easiest and acceptable solution for everyone, however (unfortunately) this is not technically possible, we just don't have this possibility.

So we believe now this issue has been resolved.


Hello,

To be honest, I am not very happy.

1. You called me a "terrorist" when you were keeping my balance. How funny..

2. You wrote that I was only looking for a scandal. I ended up writing a scam accusations because your co-admin ignored me, some of your mods were laughing at me and you asked me to deposit again to find a solution. You really have no shame...

3. You lied to everyone because you wrote that it was the first time this sort of issue happens. But when we started talking together in PM on Duckdice, you told me that this has already happened and you never refunded anyone.
How many people were just too shy to write a scam accusation against you? You will refund them, won't you?

4. And the funniest part : you can not revert my account to 23% bonus and 9.xx BTC balance. It is just you don't want to let the players win on your website. I deposited 2 BTC, my stats are + 5.088 BTC and I should be happy to get 2 BTC after 10 days ?

I'd like to thank the great bitcointalk community. Everyone who wrote a support message/ red trust on  their account before my message, I would like to share with you a part of my unfull refund. You can send me your bitcoin addresses in PM. I will give those people some coins, because we did it all together.


 I have never been treated like that by the casino in my whole life. I strongly recommend to everyone here to avoid Duck Dice.

The case is half resolved.
I do not personally want a penny from you. As a DT member it's part of my duty to help users who have been scammed. I'm glad you got at least your original money back.