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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 653997 times)
tekmobile
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November 25, 2017, 08:08:09 AM
 #10221

Bilderberg Group funds Blockstream
Blockstream sidechain business
So whose best interest does Bitcoin Core Developers have in mind here? Side chains or Bitcoin?
Did anyone ever ask them who is going to vet these side chains? Or will this become another fiat ponzi scheme. Print baby print??
Why is there no such thing as fork protection yet? lol This cash is cores fault if they'd just go to 2mb blocks but then that ruins their side chains...

Follow the money and investors... trust but verify... unless you like giving your money away...




Anyone can run a lightning node including me and you and it's trustless there is no vetting any bad players will just loose money it's the way its designed

Say we have a payment channel and I try and cheat you then you can just claim everything and I loose everything so it's in my interest to be honest


Tek,

quit lying , you know it is not about being able to run a very small hub.
(You don't have enough money to back a hub large enough to even be a concern.)

It is the Large Hubs that are going to act as banks and report everything to the govenrment.
Including starting fractional reserves.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/how-the-lightning-network-could-ultimately-destroy-bitcoin-t21092.html


Quote
The re-emergence of fractional reserve lending
At this stage, hubs would be financially incentivized and able to hold fractional reserves to start loaning out depositors' bitcoins to borrowers

Quote
Embrace, extend and extinguish
So at this point, the lightning network would effectively either merge with or morph into a simile of the current banking system.
Just as gold used to be physically ferried around in an expensive and inefficient exercise to conduct settlements between banks, bitcoins will instead be used to settle between hubs.
Assuming that this system takes over completely from the current global banking system, then the mining fees for these settlement transactions might be truly astronomical, say $1,000 per transaction.
So in the end, Bitcoin would be priced out of reach of everyone except financial institutions.
Once it becomes particularly awkward and expensive for people to take delivery, due to these sorts of fees, Bitcoin's relevance will be gradually de-emphasized and eventually detached from the financial system by government decree—exactly as happened with gold in recent decades.

Quote
What went wrong
So how did this happen?
The primary incentive for the growth of fractional reserve Bitcoin banks will come from any economies of scale in the costs of issuing transactions.
So for instance, this applies where a service provider with a lot of capital can make transactions on behalf of its customers much more cheaply than the customers could themselves.
Currently—or at least until very recently—no such economy of scale exists, primarily because there is currently no (well established) mechanism for aggregating multiple arbitrary payments into fewer or smaller blockchain transactions.
With the Lightning Network however, heavily capitalized hubs will be able to make transactions at negligible marginal cost, while end users will need to spend a far larger relative chunk of their money opening and closing channels.
As a result, there is an inescapable and huge economic incentive for hubs to act on behalf of their customers to issue transactions for them.
This is fertile ground for hubs to then become banks, start up fractional reserve practices, dilute the money supply, gradually divert attention away from the underlying asset (Bitcoin) and ultimately detach it entirely from the financial system.

Quote
What can we do?
There are no doubt many clever ways to avert this possible future.
One way is to ensure that the base layer is friction free.
That is, we should aim to minimize the time and cost of on-chain transactions.
This will leave no room for the growth of professional financial middlemen to re-emerge and reintroduce their bureaucracy, enforced mediation, censorship, monetary meddling, confiscation, counterfeiting, bailouts, bail-ins and wildly disproportionate influence and control they wield over the direction of the development of civilization.

Bitcoin Cash can replace segshitcoin and block these fractional reserve LN Hubs run by the banking cartels.


╥Aztek

Since a payment channel can be as little as 0.1BTC or less im pretty sure I have enough it's even recommended to only open small channels as it's destined more for small micro transactions you have no idea how much I own apart from what you can see in the donation addresses in my sig

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yeyz20171031
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November 25, 2017, 08:14:32 AM
 #10222

In addition to BCH, now the BTG, BCD, SBTC of the pre dug behavior of misappropriating behavior this naked, with bitcoin radiance of their own stuff, shameless! Lips sealed
serby10101010001100010
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November 25, 2017, 08:24:24 AM
 #10223

Bilderberg Group funds Blockstream
Blockstream sidechain business
So whose best interest does Bitcoin Core Developers have in mind here? Side chains or Bitcoin?
Did anyone ever ask them who is going to vet these side chains? Or will this become another fiat ponzi scheme. Print baby print??
Why is there no such thing as fork protection yet? lol This cash is cores fault if they'd just go to 2mb blocks but then that ruins their side chains...

Follow the money and investors... trust but verify... unless you like giving your money away...




Anyone can run a lightning node including me and you and it's trustless there is no vetting any bad players will just loose money it's the way its designed

Say we have a payment channel and I try and cheat you then you can just claim everything and I loose everything so it's in my interest to be honest


Tek,

quit lying , you know it is not about being able to run a very small hub.
(You don't have enough money to back a hub large enough to even be a concern.)

It is the Large Hubs that are going to act as banks and report everything to the govenrment.
Including starting fractional reserves.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/how-the-lightning-network-could-ultimately-destroy-bitcoin-t21092.html


Quote
The re-emergence of fractional reserve lending
At this stage, hubs would be financially incentivized and able to hold fractional reserves to start loaning out depositors' bitcoins to borrowers

Quote
Embrace, extend and extinguish
So at this point, the lightning network would effectively either merge with or morph into a simile of the current banking system.
Just as gold used to be physically ferried around in an expensive and inefficient exercise to conduct settlements between banks, bitcoins will instead be used to settle between hubs.
Assuming that this system takes over completely from the current global banking system, then the mining fees for these settlement transactions might be truly astronomical, say $1,000 per transaction.
So in the end, Bitcoin would be priced out of reach of everyone except financial institutions.
Once it becomes particularly awkward and expensive for people to take delivery, due to these sorts of fees, Bitcoin's relevance will be gradually de-emphasized and eventually detached from the financial system by government decree—exactly as happened with gold in recent decades.

Quote
What went wrong
So how did this happen?
The primary incentive for the growth of fractional reserve Bitcoin banks will come from any economies of scale in the costs of issuing transactions.
So for instance, this applies where a service provider with a lot of capital can make transactions on behalf of its customers much more cheaply than the customers could themselves.
Currently—or at least until very recently—no such economy of scale exists, primarily because there is currently no (well established) mechanism for aggregating multiple arbitrary payments into fewer or smaller blockchain transactions.
With the Lightning Network however, heavily capitalized hubs will be able to make transactions at negligible marginal cost, while end users will need to spend a far larger relative chunk of their money opening and closing channels.
As a result, there is an inescapable and huge economic incentive for hubs to act on behalf of their customers to issue transactions for them.
This is fertile ground for hubs to then become banks, start up fractional reserve practices, dilute the money supply, gradually divert attention away from the underlying asset (Bitcoin) and ultimately detach it entirely from the financial system.

Quote
What can we do?
There are no doubt many clever ways to avert this possible future.
One way is to ensure that the base layer is friction free.
That is, we should aim to minimize the time and cost of on-chain transactions.
This will leave no room for the growth of professional financial middlemen to re-emerge and reintroduce their bureaucracy, enforced mediation, censorship, monetary meddling, confiscation, counterfeiting, bailouts, bail-ins and wildly disproportionate influence and control they wield over the direction of the development of civilization.

Bitcoin Cash can replace segshitcoin and block these fractional reserve LN Hubs run by the banking cartels.


╥Aztek


Say we have a payment channel and I try and cheat you then you can just claim everything and I loose everything so it's in my interest to be honest

With Bitcoin Cash, I have to send you the bitcoins , You can not Seize/Confiscate them.

With Lighten Network Hubs, any coins your give to them can be Seized/Confiscated per their design and given to anyone they deem fit.
Code changes could be added anytime to allow your governments to seize your LN funds at will.

Be aware , LN hubs are only about making you slaves to the Elite Bankers and stopping Satoshi's Dream!

That is why Bitcoin Cash is the Real Bitcoin (It frees the owners of financial slavery) and segshitcoin is just an elite con to keep financial middle men your masters.

Bitcoin Cash= Freedom

Segshit/LN= Slavery

Make your choice and remember your children and their children's children fates are in your hands.



no wonders we can see his donation addresses in his sig
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November 25, 2017, 08:27:40 AM
 #10224

In addition to BCH, now the BTG, BCD, SBTC of the pre dug behavior of misappropriating behavior this naked, with bitcoin radiance of their own stuff, shameless! Lips sealed

This is nothing more than madness some people are dreaming to do this so you can find out easily. BTC has no comparison with any forked coin all will go into same way just get pumped so high and than will remain on the level as their fate.
tekmobile
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November 25, 2017, 08:28:10 AM
 #10225

no wonders we can see his donation addresses in his sig

What's seeing my donation addresses got to do with anything
zhouyc
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November 25, 2017, 08:31:20 AM
 #10226

  Smiley  Bit cash is more reliable, the market has given the answer, so the price is Biao up, while BTG, BCD, SBTC these play pre dug behavior, eventually Yuhua some, I believe!  Smiley
bitcoinPsycho
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$100,000 BTC in one hour🍄💊


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November 25, 2017, 08:37:34 AM
 #10227

  Smiley  Bit cash is more reliable, the market has given the answer, so the price is Biao up, while BTG, BCD, SBTC these play pre dug behavior, eventually Yuhua some, I believe!  Smiley
what you talking about btc just hit another ATH .you deluded

THE NEXT 24 YEARS ARE CRITICAL
serby10101010001100010
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November 25, 2017, 08:39:32 AM
 #10228

Bilderberg Group funds Blockstream
Blockstream sidechain business
So whose best interest does Bitcoin Core Developers have in mind here? Side chains or Bitcoin?
Did anyone ever ask them who is going to vet these side chains? Or will this become another fiat ponzi scheme. Print baby print??
Why is there no such thing as fork protection yet? lol This cash is cores fault if they'd just go to 2mb blocks but then that ruins their side chains...

Follow the money and investors... trust but verify... unless you like giving your money away...




Anyone can run a lightning node including me and you and it's trustless there is no vetting any bad players will just loose money it's the way its designed

Say we have a payment channel and I try and cheat you then you can just claim everything and I loose everything so it's in my interest to be honest


Tek,

quit lying , you know it is not about being able to run a very small hub.
(You don't have enough money to back a hub large enough to even be a concern.)

It is the Large Hubs that are going to act as banks and report everything to the govenrment.
Including starting fractional reserves.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/how-the-lightning-network-could-ultimately-destroy-bitcoin-t21092.html


Quote
The re-emergence of fractional reserve lending
At this stage, hubs would be financially incentivized and able to hold fractional reserves to start loaning out depositors' bitcoins to borrowers

Quote
Embrace, extend and extinguish
So at this point, the lightning network would effectively either merge with or morph into a simile of the current banking system.
Just as gold used to be physically ferried around in an expensive and inefficient exercise to conduct settlements between banks, bitcoins will instead be used to settle between hubs.
Assuming that this system takes over completely from the current global banking system, then the mining fees for these settlement transactions might be truly astronomical, say $1,000 per transaction.
So in the end, Bitcoin would be priced out of reach of everyone except financial institutions.
Once it becomes particularly awkward and expensive for people to take delivery, due to these sorts of fees, Bitcoin's relevance will be gradually de-emphasized and eventually detached from the financial system by government decree—exactly as happened with gold in recent decades.

Quote
What went wrong
So how did this happen?
The primary incentive for the growth of fractional reserve Bitcoin banks will come from any economies of scale in the costs of issuing transactions.
So for instance, this applies where a service provider with a lot of capital can make transactions on behalf of its customers much more cheaply than the customers could themselves.
Currently—or at least until very recently—no such economy of scale exists, primarily because there is currently no (well established) mechanism for aggregating multiple arbitrary payments into fewer or smaller blockchain transactions.
With the Lightning Network however, heavily capitalized hubs will be able to make transactions at negligible marginal cost, while end users will need to spend a far larger relative chunk of their money opening and closing channels.
As a result, there is an inescapable and huge economic incentive for hubs to act on behalf of their customers to issue transactions for them.
This is fertile ground for hubs to then become banks, start up fractional reserve practices, dilute the money supply, gradually divert attention away from the underlying asset (Bitcoin) and ultimately detach it entirely from the financial system.

Quote
What can we do?
There are no doubt many clever ways to avert this possible future.
One way is to ensure that the base layer is friction free.
That is, we should aim to minimize the time and cost of on-chain transactions.
This will leave no room for the growth of professional financial middlemen to re-emerge and reintroduce their bureaucracy, enforced mediation, censorship, monetary meddling, confiscation, counterfeiting, bailouts, bail-ins and wildly disproportionate influence and control they wield over the direction of the development of civilization.

Bitcoin Cash can replace segshitcoin and block these fractional reserve LN Hubs run by the banking cartels.


╥Aztek

Since a payment channel can be as little as 0.1BTC or less im pretty sure I have enough it's even recommended to only open small channels as it's destined more for small micro transactions you have no idea how much I own apart from what you can see in the donation addresses in my sig



no wonders we can see his donation addresses in his sig

What's seeing my donation addresses got to do with anything


why would you need us to see your donation addy if you had enough run a lightning node?
tekmobile
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November 25, 2017, 08:42:52 AM
 #10229

What's seeing my donation addresses got to do with anything


why would you need us to see your donation addy if you had enough run a lightning node?

I said you have no idea what I own apart from what you can see from my donation addresses I don't need you to see them but it's a bit hard to have them but hide what's in the one address I use publicly


I move funds around sometimes and also consolidate balances occasionally but never share between private and public
serby10101010001100010
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November 25, 2017, 09:06:35 AM
 #10230

 Smiley  Bit cash is more reliable, the market has given the answer, so the price is Biao up, while BTG, BCD, SBTC these play pre dug behavior, eventually Yuhua some, I believe!  Smiley
what you talking about btc just hit another ATH .you deluded

can't you see this ath was so strongly rejected that traders are closing their positions as they buy back, fueling the retracement that smart money set up as a bull trap while they dumped their heavy loads. Now their greed turns into fear, and the fear of missing out got them burn marked. who's deluded here? market manipulation at its finest, because they get rekt, big players will push this ath higher and trap even more noobs who didn't noticed that btc adjustment went down as hashrate was also at an ath.
Vicrypt
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November 25, 2017, 09:16:49 AM
 #10231

Best bet is to keep both in 1:1 ratio.

Whoever wins. You don't lose.
clixcoin
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November 25, 2017, 09:21:14 AM
 #10232

  Smiley  Bit cash is more reliable, the market has given the answer, so the price is Biao up, while BTG, BCD, SBTC these play pre dug behavior, eventually Yuhua some, I believe!  Smiley
what you talking about btc just hit another ATH .you deluded

can't you see this ath was so strongly rejected that traders are closing their positions as they buy back, fueling the retracement that smart money set up as a bull trap while they dumped their heavy loads. Now their greed turns into fear, and the fear of missing out got them burn marked. who's deluded here? market manipulation at its finest, because they get rekt, big players will push this ath higher and trap even more noobs who didn't noticed that btc adjustment went down as hashrate was also at an ath.

What is funny comparison on recent ATH no doubt you are the market guru and majority of the people following your analysis. The more you will talk the more will expose I'm following this thread just because of this kind of comment. This is nice way to get entertain.
artmen007
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November 25, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
 #10233

After rising to 2800 and drop to 1100 thought now there settles BITCOIN CASH, even thought the price might go below 1000. But a few days ago the price jumped again to 1600. Because of the rumors that the miners are switching from BITCOIN to CASH.
But really after 5 years mine bitcoin will be profitable only at a price of 300.000 dollars.
I think BCASH will eventually gain its popularity and its army of fans, but of course BITCOIN will not replace

High risk high payoff
serby10101010001100010
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November 25, 2017, 09:45:02 AM
 #10234

What's seeing my donation addresses got to do with anything


why would you need us to see your donation addy if you had enough run a lightning node?

I said you have no idea what I own apart from what you can see from my donation addresses I don't need you to see them but it's a bit hard to have them but hide what's in the one address I use publicly


I move funds around sometimes and also consolidate balances occasionally but never share between private and public

I'm not here to debate for the sake of debating. I'm well aware of the fact that we have no idea what you own, but what's the point of posting your donation addresses in your sig if you don't need us to see them in the first place.
serby10101010001100010
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November 25, 2017, 09:59:22 AM
 #10235

  Smiley  Bit cash is more reliable, the market has given the answer, so the price is Biao up, while BTG, BCD, SBTC these play pre dug behavior, eventually Yuhua some, I believe!  Smiley
what you talking about btc just hit another ATH .you deluded

can't you see this ath was so strongly rejected that traders are closing their positions as they buy back, fueling the retracement that smart money set up as a bull trap while they dumped their heavy loads. Now their greed turns into fear, and the fear of missing out got them burn marked. who's deluded here? market manipulation at its finest, because they get rekt, big players will push this ath higher and trap even more noobs who didn't noticed that btc adjustment went down as hashrate was also at an ath.

What is funny comparison on recent ATH no doubt you are the market guru and majority of the people following your analysis. The more you will talk the more will expose I'm following this thread just because of this kind of comment. This is nice way to get entertain.

you will learn that in trading, being right or wrong does not matter as long as you're making profits, keep posting your usual non sensical crap, I'm the one thanking you for your invaluable contribution and the entertaining value you add to this thread.
tekmobile
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November 25, 2017, 11:15:10 AM
 #10236

What's seeing my donation addresses got to do with anything


why would you need us to see your donation addy if you had enough run a lightning node?

I said you have no idea what I own apart from what you can see from my donation addresses I don't need you to see them but it's a bit hard to have them but hide what's in the one address I use publicly


I move funds around sometimes and also consolidate balances occasionally but never share between private and public

I'm not here to debate for the sake of debating. I'm well aware of the fact that we have no idea what you own, but what's the point of posting your donation addresses in your sig if you don't need us to see them in the first place.

Because it's free and sometimes people actually donate not many but ive had a few
jianxinss
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November 25, 2017, 11:23:16 AM
 #10237

BCH's spokesperson said that his support for BCH's original intention was to create a quality project that would solve many problems, not to make money
tekmobile
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November 25, 2017, 02:08:09 PM
 #10238

Operation Dragon Slayer in another 384 blocks or 3.3 days In other Words its gonna be a Black Friday Special!  Grin

We're still waiting

worldwide100
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November 25, 2017, 02:52:53 PM
 #10239

Chicago Board Options Exchange to Launch Bitcoin Futures beside CME Bitcoin futures & with Goldman sachs investment bank advising its investors not to ignore Bitcoin anymore the future of Bitcoin looks very good.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/chicago-board-options-exchange-to-launch-bitcoin-futures-announces-specifics
European Central Bank
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November 25, 2017, 02:57:14 PM
 #10240

We're still waiting

such an infantile operation would've maybe worked in 2011/12. i think it's a little too late now.

these kiddies fail to realise there's a big old world actually using things now and they're gonna take a whole lot more scaring and fooling than before.
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