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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 597028 times)
xianwei82
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April 12, 2018, 02:07:27 AM
 #14441

At present, 650$will rise to a high pressure level before BCH, and stop 620$before breaking down. It's not very meaningful to break through buying much

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April 12, 2018, 02:24:49 AM
 #14442

At present, 650$will rise to a high pressure level before BCH, and stop 620$before breaking down. It's not very meaningful to break through buying much
I see BCH going over $800 and towards the $1k area this week.

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
dautay_crypto
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April 12, 2018, 02:33:49 AM
 #14443

I see BCH going over $800 and towards the $1k area this week.
Interesting! However, would you mind explaining more about which news led you to such positive predictions on price of Bitcoin Cash, please.
Highly appreciate your helps.

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April 12, 2018, 02:54:57 AM
 #14444

I see BCH going over $800 and towards the $1k area this week.
Interesting! However, would you mind explaining more about which news led you to such positive predictions on price of Bitcoin Cash, please.
Highly appreciate your helps.
Thanks m8,
sure...check your pm  Smiley

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Big Naturals
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April 12, 2018, 03:26:57 AM
 #14445

It would be great if CSW posted here, just to let bch followers know he was reading. He's definitely a polarizing figure, but it's pretty clear to me he was part of the earliest days of Bitcoin development. I think if all the Beatles albums had been released anonymously and someone outed John Lennon like CSW was he would react and come off exactly the same, a bit crusty and argumentative, but with obvious talents. In that scenario if John Lennon said, 'others helped me, but yes, I am responsible for the music of the Beatles', would he be lying, assuming the other 3 members of the band wanted to stay anonymous, or maybe were dead like Kleiman.  

John Lennon was a talented angry dude with poor interpersonal skills, but his heart was in the right place (if you doubt he was a prick checkout what his kids say of him), CSW is the same type of person, heart in the right place but a talented angry wanker with a big ego.
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April 12, 2018, 07:00:02 AM
 #14446

https://twitter.com/BTCNewsUpdates/status/984270024968998912
Long time Bitcoin Core advocate "Cobra" confirms:

▪️Lightning is a threat to BTC's value
▪️Lightning is better used with other coins
0 use case left, no more reason to hold or buy BTCs. 📉🔥

Cobra-Bitcoin
A lot of people miss that. From the Bitcoin maximalist point of view, LN is actually a bit of a threat to Bitcoin's value long term. Rather than exclusively being a scaling solution for Bitcoin, it's actually a scaling solution for any coin with a malleability fix.

When stores start shifting from accepting BTC payments to LN, any altcoin with a malleability fix gains new adoption as a result. So why use Bitcoin in the first place if you can just use some shitcoin, open a channel into Lightning (at much cheaper cost), and spend at any LN-accepting merchant?

Bitcoin maximalism fits better with on-chain scaling philosophy in some ways in that respect, or scaling through sidechains.



So, if you want to use ln, you can with other coins , no need to hold og btc...tek thoughts?

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
iphmp159
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April 12, 2018, 07:05:23 AM
 #14447

~
0 use case left, no more reason to hold or buy BTCs. 📉🔥
~
Bitcoin Cash has built its community up very very well. The community has been bigger, stronger over time. And Bitcoin Cash has great team behind the scene, who contribute to make great developments for the project. Internal strenght will help Bitcoin Cash fly over the Moon.

I don't see any reason for Bitcoin to stay there as the King in the crypto world. It should belong to another coin, Bitcoin Cash, Dash, Ethererum, but never should be Bitcoin.

Mrpumperitis
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April 12, 2018, 07:15:45 AM
 #14448

^ agree m8...

here enjoy a live ln demo with roger and a lil wager  Cheesy

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8bmyp6/roger_gets_a_demo_of_lightning_network/

oouch ln  ouch  Cheesy

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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April 12, 2018, 07:23:07 AM
 #14449

I believe in Bitcoin Cash that someday it will surpass Bitcoin, and become new King of the crypto world.

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April 12, 2018, 10:47:48 AM
 #14450

Just a kind reminder about upcoming hard-fork
https://cryptovest.com/news/bitcoin-cash-bch-prepares-for-the-next-planned-hard-fork/
The most notable change is the increase in block size to 32 MB.


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Hammonds
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April 12, 2018, 11:04:30 AM
 #14451

I believe in Bitcoin Cash that someday it will surpass Bitcoin, and become new King of the crypto world.

Give your reasons if BCH will replace BTC in the future.
Because BCH is altcoin the same as the others.

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Mrpumperitis
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April 12, 2018, 11:13:47 AM
 #14452

I believe in Bitcoin Cash that someday it will surpass Bitcoin, and become new King of the crypto world.

Give your reasons if BCH will replace BTC in the future.
Because BCH is altcoin the same as the others.
Bitcoin Cash gets majority of PoW then it becomes de facto Bitcoin.

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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April 12, 2018, 12:29:26 PM
 #14453


Lightning network requires just a malleability fix it does not need to be segwit it just happens that segwit is the best fix available.

Yes it will work without segwit or a malleability fix but the smart contract that holds the funds securely on chain is identified by it's transaction id it will work just fine without segwit or a malleability fix the only time a issue would arise is if the opening transaction gets affected by this bug and would result is total loss of funds nothing more and this would be a deal breaker.

One of the proposed malleability fixes for BCH moves the signature out of the transaction area the exact same way as segwit with the only difference being that on BCH it's just moved permanently and everyone is forced to the new system while segwit just moves it to a separate merkle tree if the user chooses to use segwit and the user still has the option to use it or carry on using  legacy addresses with the signature still in the transaction area.


With segwit you have the option to use the same security model that Bitcoin has used for the last 9 years but with one of the proposed BCH fixes this would completely change the security model for a new system and you would not be able to use the one Bitcoin has used for the last 9 years.


Are these claims true about a proposed BCH malleability fix?  If not it needs to be debunked.  If there is such a proposal I believe it could not possibly be adopted in such a way, as it appears that most Bitcoin Cash users would not accept to be forced into a new system.

Decentralization implies the freedom to keep using legacy addresses in the long term.  Massive on-chain scaling is precisely allowing for that, at a very low cost.  If a malleability fix is envisioned at a later time to add more options, it will respect the freedom of choice for users.
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April 12, 2018, 02:19:47 PM
 #14454


Lightning network requires just a malleability fix it does not need to be segwit it just happens that segwit is the best fix available.

Yes it will work without segwit or a malleability fix but the smart contract that holds the funds securely on chain is identified by it's transaction id it will work just fine without segwit or a malleability fix the only time a issue would arise is if the opening transaction gets affected by this bug and would result is total loss of funds nothing more and this would be a deal breaker.

One of the proposed malleability fixes for BCH moves the signature out of the transaction area the exact same way as segwit with the only difference being that on BCH it's just moved permanently and everyone is forced to the new system while segwit just moves it to a separate merkle tree if the user chooses to use segwit and the user still has the option to use it or carry on using  legacy addresses with the signature still in the transaction area.


With segwit you have the option to use the same security model that Bitcoin has used for the last 9 years but with one of the proposed BCH fixes this would completely change the security model for a new system and you would not be able to use the one Bitcoin has used for the last 9 years.


Are these claims true about a proposed BCH malleability fix?  If not it needs to be debunked.  If there is such a proposal I believe it could not possibly be adopted in such a way, as it appears that most Bitcoin Cash users would not accept to be forced into a new system.

Decentralization implies the freedom to keep using legacy addresses in the long term.  Massive on-chain scaling is precisely allowing for that, at a very low cost.  If a malleability fix is envisioned at a later time to add more options, it will respect the freedom of choice for users.

Can't find all the information the devs do a lot of discussing in private

https://github.com/bitcoincashorg/workgroups/blob/master/wg-malfix/summaries/20180130%20-%20Meeting%20Summary.md

This is some of the proposed fixes it's to be done at some point in the future via the scheduled hard forks and affects everyone there is no opt in like segwit where you decide yourself if you want to carry on with legacy or not

BCH wants the malfix for everyone this means the security model has to change permanently

One of the criticisms of segwit is that it does not fix it for everyone (because it's optional)

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April 12, 2018, 02:22:31 PM
Merited by Mysticus (2)
 #14455

One of the proposed malleability fixes for BCH moves the signature out of the transaction area the exact same way as segwit with the only difference being that on BCH it's just moved permanently and everyone is forced to the new system

with one of the proposed BCH fixes this would completely change the security model for a new system and you would not be able to use the one Bitcoin has used for the last 9 years.

Are these claims true about a proposed BCH malleability fix?  

So tek claims. He is partially right about the first one. A separation of signature data from the rest of the transaction data has indeed been proposed as a malleability fix. Funny thing about proposals - anyone can make one. Even an insane one. Not saying the concept of separating sig from tx is necessarily insane, just saying that there are essentially zero barriers to making a proposal.

To get the proposal implemented, however, requires consensus. There is no consensus for this proposal at this time.

Quote
If not it needs to be debunked.  

Despite a direct challenge, tek has provided zero rationale for tek's claim that this proposal will change Bitcoin's security model. Zero. Tek merely dodges the question. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2040221.msg34496915#msg34496915

It is possible there is a proposal for BCH that separates sig from tx and changes the security model. Possible. until tek coughs up the text of the relevant proposal, there is no knowing.

Salacious claims require support of evidence. The ball is in tek's court. Put up or shut up. *

If tek can establish such a proposal actually exists, it is then impingent upon tek to show that there is a snowball's chance in hell of it ever getting adopted. As if.

Unless tek steps forward with some evidence, you can safely consider this claim debunked, dispatched, and discredited. *

Quote
If there is such a proposal I believe it could not possibly be adopted in such a way, as it appears that most Bitcoin Cash users would not accept to be forced into a new system.

I think you sum up the situation rather well - Bitcoin Cash users are unlikely to accept being forced into such a system.

*edit: tek posted while I was composing this. From a quick scan, tek has identified a specific proposal, though tek's claims will still be debunked using this new evidence. Stay tuned.

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April 12, 2018, 02:24:10 PM
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April 12, 2018, 02:33:52 PM
 #14457

One of the proposed malleability fixes for BCH moves the signature out of the transaction area the exact same way as segwit with the only difference being that on BCH it's just moved permanently and everyone is forced to the new system

with one of the proposed BCH fixes this would completely change the security model for a new system and you would not be able to use the one Bitcoin has used for the last 9 years.

Are these claims true about a proposed BCH malleability fix?  

So tek claims. He is partially right about the first one. A separation of signature data from the rest of the transaction data has indeed been proposed as a malleability fix. Funny thing about proposals - anyone can make one. Even an insane one. Not saying the concept of separating sig from tx is necessarily insane, just saying that there are essentially zero barriers to making a proposal.

To get the proposal implemented, however, requires consensus. There is no consensus for this proposal at this time.

Quote
If not it needs to be debunked.  

Despite a direct challenge, tek has provided zero rationale for tek's claim that this proposal will change Bitcoin's security model. Zero. Tek merely dodges the question. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2040221.msg34496915#msg34496915

It is possible there is a proposal for BCH that separates sig from tx and changes the security model. Possible. until tek coughs up the text of the relevant proposal, there is no knowing.

Salacious claims require support of evidence. The ball is in tek's court. Put up or shut up.

If tek can establish such a proposal actually exists, it is then impingent upon tek to show that there is a snowball's chance in hell of it ever getting adopted. As if.

Unless tek steps forward with some evidence, you can safely consider this claim debunked, dispatched, and discredited.

Quote
If there is such a proposal I believe it could not possibly be adopted in such a way, as it appears that most Bitcoin Cash users would not accept to be forced into a new system.

I think you sum up the situation rather well - Bitcoin Cash users are unlikely to accept being forced into such a system.


The proposed fixes are listed here

https://github.com/bitcoincashorg/workgroups/blob/master/wg-malfix/summaries/20180130%20-%20Meeting%20Summary.md

Yes they are proposals nothing more I'm not saying that any will be adopted just that their is a chance

As for Bitcoin Cash users won't accept being forced into a new system the whole premise of Bitcoin cash is users nodes don't matter only mining nodes matter so you will get forced if the exchanges upgrade and the miners upgrade the users are forced to either upgrade because you use SPV wallets or sell taking huge losses


The only reason BTC users can have a say is the users run the majority of the nodes therefore the miners etc won't switch as it's not in their interest to mine something the vast majority of users define worthless
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April 12, 2018, 02:47:22 PM
 #14458


https://twitter.com/BTCNewsUpdates/status/984270024968998912
Long time Bitcoin Core advocate "Cobra" confirms:

▪️Lightning is a threat to BTC's value
▪️Lightning is better used with other coins
0 use case left, no more reason to hold or buy BTCs. 📉🔥

Cobra-Bitcoin
A lot of people miss that. From the Bitcoin maximalist point of view, LN is actually a bit of a threat to Bitcoin's value long term. Rather than exclusively being a scaling solution for Bitcoin, it's actually a scaling solution for any coin with a malleability fix.

When stores start shifting from accepting BTC payments to LN, any altcoin with a malleability fix gains new adoption as a result. So why use Bitcoin in the first place if you can just use some shitcoin, open a channel into Lightning (at much cheaper cost), and spend at any LN-accepting merchant?

Bitcoin maximalism fits better with on-chain scaling philosophy in some ways in that respect, or scaling through sidechains.



So, if you want to use ln, you can with other coins , no need to hold og btc...tek thoughts?


also did you see ln in action? ooooooo  Shocked Cheesy
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8bmyp6/roger_gets_a_demo_of_lightning_network/



I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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April 12, 2018, 03:01:39 PM
 #14459


https://twitter.com/BTCNewsUpdates/status/984270024968998912
Long time Bitcoin Core advocate "Cobra" confirms:

▪️Lightning is a threat to BTC's value
▪️Lightning is better used with other coins
0 use case left, no more reason to hold or buy BTCs. 📉🔥

Cobra-Bitcoin
A lot of people miss that. From the Bitcoin maximalist point of view, LN is actually a bit of a threat to Bitcoin's value long term. Rather than exclusively being a scaling solution for Bitcoin, it's actually a scaling solution for any coin with a malleability fix.

When stores start shifting from accepting BTC payments to LN, any altcoin with a malleability fix gains new adoption as a result. So why use Bitcoin in the first place if you can just use some shitcoin, open a channel into Lightning (at much cheaper cost), and spend at any LN-accepting merchant?

Bitcoin maximalism fits better with on-chain scaling philosophy in some ways in that respect, or scaling through sidechains.



So, if you want to use ln, you can with other coins , no need to hold og btc...tek thoughts?


also did you see ln in action? ooooooo  Shocked Cheesy
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8bmyp6/roger_gets_a_demo_of_lightning_network/




You posted that earlier and yes I saw

That vid of Roger and LN that's using eclair it's one of the early betas and has some issues I'm well aware of those I've had many failures with eclair that is not a issue with LN though just buggy early beta software that will be fixed

I've never had such issues with LND you just need to use the command line

Eclair also has other issues it currently cannot receive LN payments either only make them and does not advertise itself to the network or route payments for others

LND is the most reliable client so far yes there is still a lot of work to do

Bitcoin is the currency like USD
The block chain is where you store your money like your bank account
LN is a payment network like visa or MasterCard etc

When you go to shops etc you don't go and make a bank transfer to pay for something you use a payment processor and can only spend money that is on your bank account (your channel balance)







Mrpumperitis
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April 12, 2018, 03:12:50 PM
 #14460

^ eclair rings a bell...lol

https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/04/bitcoin-lightning-network-wallet-app-removed-from-google-play-as-developers-lose-signing-key/
Bitcoin’s first Lightning Network-enabled wallet app, Eclair Wallet, has recently been removed from Google’s Play Store by the developers, as they lost access to the app’s signing keys. This, as the developers noted on social media, prevents them from fixing bugs and working on the app


so was this demo before or after the devs lost the keys?

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 , chk theymos comment.
Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.btc is no longer what people think it was...https://www.segwetters.org/
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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