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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 689045 times)
tomkat
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May 29, 2018, 08:00:29 AM
 #15241

https://www.merkle.press/2018/05/bitcoin-price-has-hypothetical-value-of.html
Bitcoin Price Has Hypothetical Value of $1,800: Federal Reserve Report
“Although Bitcoins do not possess any real intrinsic value, from a commodity valuation perspective, we can estimate a hypothetical value based on its production costs. Recent estimates regarding the energy involved in mining a single Bitcoin by professional energy-efficient mining rigs put it at about $1,800 when mined in China (where 80% of the currently mined Bitcoins originate).



I said a few month back around $2k to mine 1 og btc...
Probably going to go lower than that ( $800-$1400 possible )


The energy is obviously not the only cost of mining, so his hypothetical value is far from realistic.
To mine 1 BTC with 1 Antminer S9 one needs 1223 days at constant (=current) difficulty.
The energy used during that time would be ~40k kWh (cost ~ $2000 at $0.05 per kWh).
S9 price is ~$900-1000, so energy + miner would be $3000, and then there're other costs, like employees, buildings, HVAC, repairs, etc.


True for the average consumer(miner)your prices are probably accurate.
However for industrial scale miners, its not, its alot cheaper.
They buy asics in bulk and get cheaper elec, leading to huge savings.

Also the producers of asics are always  ahead.
While average miners use s9, the asic producers will be using "testing" s10 and be creating s11 always remain a few steps ahead of the rest.


Probably true about the equipment prices, but energy at $0.05 is rather low... at least for US and EU, not sure about China and far east in general.
Also, for the average consumer grade miner there're no additional costs of large buildings, HVAC installations and employees, so the costs aren't much different imo.
We probably both right depending on the miner.
I think we can agree the price to mine 1og btc is between $2k - $3500 , def not the $8k some places have been reporting.
Lets say $2700 is an average price ...that price will 100% happen for og btc and
then more panic dumping can take its price lower than $2k, imo  

I wonder if Jihan or some other big mining group will tell us the cost for them to mine 1og btc. Smiley

Yes, your average is plausible, and... No, I doubt big miners will ever disclose their costs  Undecided

I know its from crazy John lols but  here is a recent comment(dec2017) from him regarding cost to mine a btc..
John McAfee
‏@officialmcafee
Replying to @MusicalKasparov
The coin itself us a product costing $2,000 to make.   https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/938953574729637889?lang=en

Some more (interesting) insights on mining from 1000-miners-owner perspective. Apparently, cooling is important but expensive

Quote
Using HVAC is the most expensive

Quote
Mid-sized miners are going to start turning off around $6800-7000

Quote
$2k is the ACTUAL BREAK-EVEN price for the biggest players

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/8mrher/ive_been_mining_bitcoin_for_30_months_here_are/

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tomsmith26
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May 29, 2018, 10:11:28 AM
 #15242

EOS will be used by anyone/everyone in the world, on top of BCH.  People will create their own business/tokens in EOS, being backed in BCH as the global backed currency.  This “race” to be the dominant crypto was never real.  It was always Bitcoin (Cash) and now with the final piece being EOS.

https://medium.com/eostribe/eos-bp-security-statement-e8cbf0df72db



I only use and hold real coins such as bitcoin, DASH, KMD, XVG like as long investment . All fork coins are the only copies from them and so I never highly appreciate those fork coins .
hv_
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May 29, 2018, 08:14:30 PM
 #15243

Must watch. The trust machine - Bitcoin

https://youtu.be/ZKwqNgG-Sv4


 Wink

Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
afbitcoins
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May 29, 2018, 10:13:00 PM
 #15244

We're focused on EVERYTHING after the hard fork. We'll be able to run smart contracts and have our own tokens. Bitcoin Cash will absorb all of the best features of the other coins, something bitcoin core has been too scared to do

So not following Satoshi's whitepaper afterall ?
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May 31, 2018, 02:05:48 PM
 #15245

EOS going to knock you out your spot Grin Bcash too crash.
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May 31, 2018, 02:23:23 PM
 #15246

EOS going to knock you out your spot

Username checks out.

Incidentally, have you seen the recent expose' of EOS potentially fatal vulnerabilities from a significant group of EOS devs?

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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June 01, 2018, 01:12:51 PM
 #15247

Bitcoin Cash project team is very reliable, technical capability and marketing are doing a good job, in the field of block chain payment, I think BCH will become NO1.
konfuzius5278
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June 01, 2018, 01:24:12 PM
 #15248

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

BTC     3AgCyJqGgTYxYZnctag2DbJYRWtk2pc4hT
DASH   XmpCjDsg3UiPn61NSamathyTThXRgF8gaD
DOGE   DPkniUQEfithnCdQjYwkRHenT4TQtVcZoi
tomkat
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June 01, 2018, 01:44:05 PM
 #15249

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

POS has its use cases but it's more vulnerable to rich getting richer effect
https://www.yours.org/content/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-5437b3a591e7

Big coins are safe, and the smaller ones... well, in order to survive they should attract more hash power
https://www.crypto51.app/
bitpotter
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June 01, 2018, 01:52:32 PM
 #15250

Bitcoin Cash project team is very reliable, technical capability and marketing are doing a good job, in the field of block chain payment, I think BCH will become NO1.

Not necessarily, many close competitors BCH and it's not easy if you want to be number one, can you be sure as long as bitcoin is still there?
konfuzius5278
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June 01, 2018, 02:09:08 PM
 #15251

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

POS has its use cases but it's more vulnerable to rich getting richer effect
https://www.yours.org/content/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-5437b3a591e7

Big coins are safe, and the smaller ones... well, in order to survive they should attract more hash power
https://www.crypto51.app/
The argument the richer get richer is of course not really wrong. But whats the matter if the richest in a coin is a non profit social aspect which is never be sold.

BTC     3AgCyJqGgTYxYZnctag2DbJYRWtk2pc4hT
DASH   XmpCjDsg3UiPn61NSamathyTThXRgF8gaD
DOGE   DPkniUQEfithnCdQjYwkRHenT4TQtVcZoi
cool4y
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June 01, 2018, 02:25:06 PM
 #15252

Bitcoin Cash project team is very reliable, technical capability and marketing are doing a good job, in the field of block chain payment, I think BCH will become NO1.


Bcash has none of the mentioned above capabilities.
rendravolt
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June 01, 2018, 02:28:21 PM
 #15253

EOS going to knock you out your spot Grin Bcash too crash.

EOS may be only possible, EOS is not so dangerous, there are many other tokens that can do that especially token that is already popular.
tomkat
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June 01, 2018, 03:51:57 PM
 #15254

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

POS has its use cases but it's more vulnerable to rich getting richer effect
https://www.yours.org/content/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-5437b3a591e7

Big coins are safe, and the smaller ones... well, in order to survive they should attract more hash power
https://www.crypto51.app/
The argument the richer get richer is of course not really wrong. But whats the matter if the richest in a coin is a non profit social aspect which is never be sold.

Do you really believe in non-profit motivations behind greed-driven crypto space? Just look around for so called "foundations" holding millions of coins for their owners' benefits, or the ICOs in which 30-50% goes to the public, and the rest to team, PR, advisors, reserves, etc. And what about exchanges that are not paying POS stakes to their users?
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June 01, 2018, 05:30:15 PM
 #15255

I found this, https://kyobit.com/market/BTC-BCH

DYOR before you trade there.
Zin-Zang
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June 01, 2018, 11:24:23 PM
 #15256

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

POS has its use cases but it's more vulnerable to rich getting richer effect
https://www.yours.org/content/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-5437b3a591e7

Big coins are safe, and the smaller ones... well, in order to survive they should attract more hash power
https://www.crypto51.app/


Whether you believe PoS is the final energy solution or some other consensus method yet to be created.
The fact is Bitcoin's Energy Waste has to be dealt with and sooner is better than later.  Smiley

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4236251.msg38840457#msg38840457
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4236251.msg38924570#msg38924570


I was Red Tagged because Lauda Blows Theymos to get back on DT
The rest are just lauda's personal butt monkeys=> Hhampuz , Vod, TMAN , achow101
hv_
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June 02, 2018, 12:58:48 PM
 #15257

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

POS has its use cases but it's more vulnerable to rich getting richer effect
https://www.yours.org/content/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-5437b3a591e7

Big coins are safe, and the smaller ones... well, in order to survive they should attract more hash power
https://www.crypto51.app/


Whether you believe PoS is the final energy solution or some other consensus method yet to be created.
The fact is Bitcoin's Energy Waste has to be dealt with and sooner is better than later.  Smiley

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4236251.msg38840457#msg38840457
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4236251.msg38924570#msg38924570



If you believe that it is wasted, than you might not understand open markets and the voluntary commitment into Bitcoin security model.

I'd only agree on the term 'waste' if you see how legacy Bitcoin is bribbled to limited use and user base, what,is fixed with Bitcoin Cash now.


Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
sirsplashalot
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June 02, 2018, 01:19:46 PM
 #15258

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

So then I guess that’s the end for poor people.

Worried about my trust rating? I am too. Bitcointalk users ‘Lauda’ and ‘gmaxwell’ have abused their superior powers in trust system to align their views with the ‘correct views.’ In no legal system in any jurisdiction do we have a definition for what Bitcoin is, they do not have the power to tell us what it is based on the rule of law.
sirsplashalot
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June 02, 2018, 01:21:51 PM
 #15259

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

POS has its use cases but it's more vulnerable to rich getting richer effect
https://www.yours.org/content/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-5437b3a591e7

Big coins are safe, and the smaller ones... well, in order to survive they should attract more hash power
https://www.crypto51.app/


Whether you believe PoS is the final energy solution or some other consensus method yet to be created.
The fact is Bitcoin's Energy Waste has to be dealt with and sooner is better than later.  Smiley

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4236251.msg38840457#msg38840457
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4236251.msg38924570#msg38924570



You are aware of ‘alternative energy’ ?

Worried about my trust rating? I am too. Bitcointalk users ‘Lauda’ and ‘gmaxwell’ have abused their superior powers in trust system to align their views with the ‘correct views.’ In no legal system in any jurisdiction do we have a definition for what Bitcoin is, they do not have the power to tell us what it is based on the rule of law.
Zin-Zang
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Killing Lightning Network with a 51% Ignore attack


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June 02, 2018, 01:36:54 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2018, 01:52:54 PM by Zin-Zang
 #15260

Every POW coin will fail, one earlier, one later. See all the 51% attacks on BTG and VERGE.

There is only one solution with enough experiance: POS  Grin

POS has its use cases but it's more vulnerable to rich getting richer effect
https://www.yours.org/content/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-5437b3a591e7

Big coins are safe, and the smaller ones... well, in order to survive they should attract more hash power
https://www.crypto51.app/


Whether you believe PoS is the final energy solution or some other consensus method yet to be created.
The fact is Bitcoin's Energy Waste has to be dealt with and sooner is better than later.  Smiley

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4236251.msg38840457#msg38840457
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4236251.msg38924570#msg38924570



You are aware of ‘alternative energy’ ?

You are aware of 'Math'?

Bitcoin Alone will use 100% of the amount of electricity the world generated in 2017, as soon as Feb 2020.
That is all of the electricity including electricity from alternative sources.

If you think the world energy output is going to double or triple in the next 2 years, lets just say you are naive.   Tongue

https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-12-20/bitcoins-sky-rocketing-energy-use-viral-story-we-checked-math
Quote
Eric Holthaus wrote for Grist that “by July 2019, the bitcoin network will require more electricity than the entire United States currently uses.
By February 2020, it will use as much electricity as the entire world does today.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3068599/sustainable-it/renewables-fastest-growing-energy-source-feds-say.html
Quote
Renewables are now the world's fastest-growing energy source and are expected to increase by 2.6% per year through 2040.
Hydropower and wind are the two largest contributors to the increase in world electricity generation from renewable energy sources, the report stated.May 11, 2016

Alternative energy is only growing at 2.6% per year, it can in no way even slow down the insane energy waste of bitcoin.

I was Red Tagged because Lauda Blows Theymos to get back on DT
The rest are just lauda's personal butt monkeys=> Hhampuz , Vod, TMAN , achow101
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