[ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees

[Mrpumperitis]

Time to buy more BCH before it goes up to another level 

Mega buy support and big buy walls are about to appear 

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[bones261]

Im curious what information will change your opinion? ...
afaik, there is enough info available for sensible people to understand blockstream is not providing the solution that the majority of crypto users require...BCH is  

I have an INTP Meyers Brigg personality type. So my opinion changes quite frequently and is never static. 
It is likely that I will never be utterly convinced with an opinion that will never waiver.

[Mrpumperitis]

Im curious what information will change your opinion? ...
afaik, there is enough info available for sensible people to understand blockstream is not providing the solution that the majority of crypto users require...BCH is  

I have an INTP Meyers Brigg personality type. So my opinion changes quite frequently and is never static. 
It is likely that I will never be utterly convinced with an opinion that will never waiver.

riiight, So your opinion changes quite frequently and is never static...hmmm
thing is you have only had one opinion about bch from day1 really...you have never shown any kind of proper support towards BCH afaik.
Then theres the bones i see on the other forums...again i never see you say anything negative about segwit and blockstream...
hmmm, so is this disorder of yours , selective lol...


im still curious on what information will make you change your opinion, albeit a possible temporary change of opinion

[bones261]

Im curious what information will change your opinion? ...
afaik, there is enough info available for sensible people to understand blockstream is not providing the solution that the majority of crypto users require...BCH is  

I have an INTP Meyers Brigg personality type. So my opinion changes quite frequently and is never static. 
It is likely that I will never be utterly convinced with an opinion that will never waiver.

riiight, So your opinion changes quite frequently and is never static...hmmm
thing is you have only had one opinion about bch from day1 really...you have never shown any kind of proper support towards BCH afaik.
Then theres the bones i see on the other forums...again i never see you say anything negative about segwit and blockstream...
hmmm, so is this disorder of yours , selective lol...


im still curious on what information will make you change your opinion, albeit a possible temporary change of opinion

And you really don't see me post anything overly positive about segwit or Blockstream either. Do you really think my general apathy is a seal of approval?
By the way, a personality type is not a disorder anymore than blood type is a disorder.
Here is a little quote from the article that I linked.

They love patterns, and spotting discrepancies between statements could almost be described as a hobby, making it a bad idea to lie to an INTP. This makes it ironic that INTPs’ word should always be taken with a grain of salt – it’s not that they are dishonest, but people with the INTP personality type tend to share thoughts that are not fully developed, using others as a sounding board for ideas and theories in a debate against themselves rather than as actual conversation partners.

Therefore, you should take what I post with a grain of salt and realize there is an underlying debate going on. In reality, I find BCH quite fascinating. Otherwise, I wouldn't be spending any time constantly putting it under serious consideration. You really think that I am going to spend any time discussing something that I have no interest in whatsoever?

[Mrpumperitis]

Im curious what information will change your opinion? ...
afaik, there is enough info available for sensible people to understand blockstream is not providing the solution that the majority of crypto users require...BCH is  

I have an INTP Meyers Brigg personality type. So my opinion changes quite frequently and is never static. 
It is likely that I will never be utterly convinced with an opinion that will never waiver.

riiight, So your opinion changes quite frequently and is never static...hmmm
thing is you have only had one opinion about bch from day1 really...you have never shown any kind of proper support towards BCH afaik.
Then theres the bones i see on the other forums...again i never see you say anything negative about segwit and blockstream...
hmmm, so is this disorder of yours , selective lol...


im still curious on what information will make you change your opinion, albeit a possible temporary change of opinion

And you really don't see me post anything overly positive about segwit or Blockstream either. Do you really think my general apathy is a seal of approval?
By the way, a personality type is not a disorder anymore than blood type is a disorder.
Here is a little quote from the article that I linked.

They love patterns, and spotting discrepancies between statements could almost be described as a hobby, making it a bad idea to lie to an INTP. This makes it ironic that INTPs’ word should always be taken with a grain of salt – it’s not that they are dishonest, but people with the INTP personality type tend to share thoughts that are not fully developed, using others as a sounding board for ideas and theories in a debate against themselves rather than as actual conversation partners.

Therefore, you should take what I post with a grain of salt and realize there is an underlying debate going on. In reality, I find BCH quite fascinating. Otherwise, I wouldn't be spending any time constantly putting it under serious consideration. You really think that I am going to spend any time discussing something that I have no interest in whatsoever?

Thanks for an honest reply there m8....had to squeeze it out of you,lols
i was sure you were interested in BCH as you ave been here from day1, but it is gd to hear you actually say saying, you find BCH fascinating...
as for your apathy as a seal of approval...of course it is, you underestimate your influence, when you are being serious, you contribute alot.
so Mr Bones...when will you give BCH your seal of approval?... soon as you do watch it fly over $6k 

[bones261]

Thanks for an honest reply there m8....had to squeeze it out of you,lols
i was sure you were interested in BCH as you ave been here from day1, but it is gd to hear you actually say saying, you find BCH fascinating...
as for your apathy as a seal of approval...of course it is, you underestimate your influence, when you are being serious, you contribute alot.
so Mr Bones...when will you give BCH your seal of approval?... soon as you do watch it fly over $6k 

     I highly doubt some words from me is going to send the BCH price to $6K.  However, here goes my current thoughts on BCH.
     After watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJm2ep3X_M&feature=youtu.be
I have come to the conclusion that on-chain scaling is indeed feasible. My previous objections were that it takes pools too long to verify transactions. Therefore, 1GB blocks would result in many empty blocks being mined. However, after watching the video, it appears they are working on optimizing the way that the mempool is handled by a mining node. However, I still have misgivings about 1 GB blocks since this would require a node to have the storage capacity of over 50tb per year.  At this time, I believe this would cause a barrier to entry for small start ups that require a full node be run. (New exchanges, information services, mining pools etc.)           
     My general view on Segwit. It appears to have solved the transaction malleability problem. However, to the layman, such as myself, it appears to be A Rube Goldberg machine kind of way to solve the problem. I am not convinced that there is indeed a vulnerability that allows miners to steal your segwit coins. A white hat demonstration of this attack on a testnet would be required to convince me otherwise. Naturally a black hat demonstration on the mainnet would convince me too, but would not be ideal.
   My general view on Lightning Network: It does appear as a viable solution to solve the scaling issue. However, to the layman, it appears to be a Rube Goldberg machine kind of way to solve the problem. I am not a coder, but it seems the Bitcore Core and Blockstream team are more interested in doing coding gymnastics and showing off their skills and not applying the KISS principal at all. However, since I do not know how to code, I could be dead wrong in my assessment.

[Mrpumperitis]

Thanks for an honest reply there m8....had to squeeze it out of you,lols
i was sure you were interested in BCH as you ave been here from day1, but it is gd to hear you actually say saying, you find BCH fascinating...
as for your apathy as a seal of approval...of course it is, you underestimate your influence, when you are being serious, you contribute alot.
so Mr Bones...when will you give BCH your seal of approval?... soon as you do watch it fly over $6k  

     I highly doubt some words from me is going to send the BCH price to $6K.   However, here goes my current thoughts on BCH.
     After watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJm2ep3X_M&feature=youtu.be
I have come to the conclusion that on-chain scaling is indeed feasible. My previous objections were that it takes pools too long to verify transactions. Therefore, 1GB blocks would result in many empty blocks being mined. However, after watching the video, it appears they are working on optimizing the way that the mempool is handled by a mining node. However, I still have misgivings about 1 GB blocks since this would require a node to have the storage capacity of over 50tb per year.  At this time, I believe this would cause a barrier to entry for small start ups that require a full node be run. (New exchanges, information services, mining pools etc.)            
     My general view on Segwit. It appears to have solved the transaction malleability problem. However, to the layman, such as myself, it appears to be A Rube Goldberg machine kind of way to solve the problem. I am not convinced that there is indeed a vulnerability that allows miners to steal your segwit coins. A white hat demonstration of this attack on a testnet would be required to convince me otherwise. Naturally a black hat demonstration on the mainnet would convince me too, but would not be ideal.
   My general view on Lightning Network: It does appear as a viable solution to solve the scaling issue. However, to the layman, it appears to be a Rube Goldberg machine kind of way to solve the problem. I am not a coder, but it seems the Bitcore Core and Blockstream team are more interested in doing coding gymnastics and showing off their skills and not applying the KISS principal at all. However, since I do not know how to code, I could be dead wrong in my assessment.

yea i saw that vid before, its very informative.
Thanks for your current thoughts on what you think is happening, i agree with some(1gb blocks are a long way off) but disagree with some too lols
lots of work has still be be done , crypto cant stop, it evolves and improves with time.

segwet is giving far to much control to blockstream over the whole crypto ecosystem, people are discovering this and avoiding segwit, crypto businesses and exchanges will not adopt segwit either as their entire business is at stake. Everthing that everyone worked hard for , to get as far as we did, then just hand it all over to blockstream...No chance.

i think lighting is trying to steal crypto tech from us, esp after i watched this today , How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost=
Your words could do it...try it, what ya got to lose bro? lol

[Mrpumperitis]

https://twitter.com/bitpay/status/941769498742394880

Stop bitching. Start reading.

https://bitcoinist.com/bitpay-add-support-bitcoin-cash-cryptocurrencies/
BitPay is one of the most popular Bitcoin payment processing companies in the world. Today, they announced support for more cryptocurrencies, starting with implementing Bitcoin Cash to their payment platform and debit cards. BitPay plans on fully activating the change before the end of the year.

[bones261]

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost=

Sorry, but this video did little to persuade me either way. Yes, I acknowledge that Blockstream is in it to try and make a buck. However, I think almost 99.999% of the people in the cryptocurrency subculture are trying to make a profit. Which is why I really do not fully trust anyone in this space except myself.

[altcoinrich]

BCH is not moving up even if dream market and bitpay accepts BCH, which is quite weird. When ltc was accepted by steam, the price made 4x pump, when will BCH have another 4x pump?

[Bitbobb]

https://twitter.com/bitpay/status/941769498742394880

Stop bitching. Start reading.

https://bitcoinist.com/bitpay-add-support-bitcoin-cash-cryptocurrencies/
BitPay is one of the most popular Bitcoin payment processing companies in the world. Today, they announced support for more cryptocurrencies, starting with implementing Bitcoin Cash to their payment platform and debit cards. BitPay plans on fully activating the change before the end of the year.

Yeah they came out with a credit card recently that allows you to pay in local fiat anywhere while drawing from the digital money account.

Of those who have tried it I heard good feedback so far!!!

[moli1]

On December 15 the largest bitcoin payment processor in the world, Bitpay,
announced it will now process payments for multiple blockchains.
The first decentralized currency Bitpay has opted to utilize will be bitcoin cash.
Bitpay has made an announcement that’s sure to please bitcoin cash (BCH) supporters as the firm has announced BCH payment processing. This means Bitpay’s merchant invoices and card load ups can be paid in bitcoin cash as soon as the company finishes integration.
more info: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitpay-plans-to-use-bitcoin-cash-for-payment-invoices-and-debit-loads/

[jianxinss]

On December 15 the largest bitcoin payment processor in the world, Bitpay,
announced it will now process payments for multiple blockchains.
The first decentralized currency Bitpay has opted to utilize will be bitcoin cash.
Bitpay has made an announcement that’s sure to please bitcoin cash (BCH) supporters as the firm has announced BCH payment processing. This means Bitpay’s merchant invoices and card load ups can be paid in bitcoin cash as soon as the company finishes integration.
more info: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitpay-plans-to-use-bitcoin-cash-for-payment-invoices-and-debit-loads/

On the good news about applications, if BCH can make a breakthrough in payment applications, there will be an advantage in all digital money sectors

[jbreher]

What do you think about the growth of the block size in the last days?

https://fork.lol/blocks/size

Great. Bigger realized blocks = greater use = greater utility.

Meh, a few spike gets you all excited? When I look at the chart below, the average block size for Bitcoin Core at it's measly ~ 1.05 MB is still outpacing BCH.

Hmm. 'All excited' may be an overstatement. I'm just saying that bigger is better. Manifestly.

Bitcoin Core better hope that realized Bitcoin Cash block sizes stay small. For should they exceed on average, that would demonstrate that world+dog is getting more utility out of Bitcoin Cash than it is out of Bitcoin Core. And you know what that means...

Adoption is important but a few spikes in KB per block is not the best measure of it. Number of nodes is still quite steady imo.

Bitcoin Cash is not going to have a lot of full nodes if things go their way. In order to scale anywhere close to Visa, on chain, as appears to be their goal, a enterprise would need access to equipment capable of storing at least 56 TB of data per year. Probably at least quadruple that, since you want to properly index the data and have proper back ups. A casual user would need to run an SPV client.

For the umpteenth time - Bitcoin Cash has no reason to support Visa-scale transaction volume until such time as demand for transactions reaches Visa scale (is that a tautology?). If we somehow hit that next year, I'll be more than happy to store 56 TB of data that year. Of course, even in the most wildly optimistic scenario, Visa-scale demand is still several years off.

[Bitbobb]

link that shows SDR's are valued at $42.22 per troy ounce of internationally earmarked gold.  link: https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/bulletin/1208assets.htm
still doesn't tell us what an SDR is..

Here is some allegory on the power of a clearing house.  Add in pure fiat and any economy can be turned around in a matter of weeks!

[y3804]

BCH is not moving up even if dream market and bitpay accepts BCH, which is quite weird. When ltc was accepted by steam, the price made 4x pump, when will BCH have another 4x pump?

It's not going to pump. BTC is pumped (not BCC) because of Tether and banks. BCC doesn't have that momentum behind it. HODL BTC until the day it nearly crashes then buy as much BCC as possible.

[jbreher]

     After watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJm2ep3X_M&feature=youtu.be
I have come to the conclusion that on-chain scaling is indeed feasible. My previous objections were that it takes pools too long to verify transactions. Therefore, 1GB blocks would result in many empty blocks being mined.

I see no scenario where that would be a consequence. Can you explain? For that matter, how does one quantify 'too many empty blocks'? As long as all transactions are processed with reasonable alacrity, what does the block fullness matter?

However, I still have misgivings about 1 GB blocks since this would require a node to have the storage capacity of over 50tb per year. 

Other than to repeat that we will not consume that much storage until there is actual demand for it, I would like to point out the 50 TB of storage -- today -- costs less than 0.1 BTC (~$1650 USD at standard retail).

At this time, I believe this would cause a barrier to entry for small start ups that require a full node be run. (New exchanges, information services, mining pools etc.)

 
If a startup can't lose 0.1 BTC in the noise of its annual CapEx budget, it is likely to be a non-entity anyhow.

     My general view on Segwit. It appears to have solved the transaction malleability problem. However, to the layman, such as myself, it appears to be A Rube Goldberg machine kind of way to solve the problem.

I am glad you see the unwarranted complexity. There may be some validity to not hashing across the signature*. However, trying to introduce it as a soft fork creates a mass of technical debt.

*OTOH, there may not. "We define an electronic coin as a chain of digital signatures" - S Nakamoto, the Bitcoin whitepaper

I am not convinced that there is indeed a vulnerability that allows miners to steal your segwit coins. A white hat demonstration of this attack on a testnet would be required to convince me otherwise. Naturally a black hat demonstration on the mainnet would convince me too, but would not be ideal.

What's to misunderstand? A miner operating by the old rules sees a segwit transaction as an anyonecanspend transaction. Accordingly, that miner can spend the output to himself, should he be successful in mining the block. Of course, he would still need to get the other miners to extend his chain. But with enough value caught up in active transactions, there is an incentive for the miners to collude thusly. It may not come to pass, but it may. With Core adamant that they always act to vilify and marginalize the mining community, is it really that farfetched that such may come to pass?

   My general view on Lightning Network: It does appear as a viable solution to solve the scaling issue. However, to the layman, it appears to be a Rube Goldberg machine kind of way to solve the problem. I am not a coder, but it seems the Bitcore Core and Blockstream team are more interested in doing coding gymnastics and showing off their skills and not applying the KISS principal at all.

Again, agreed. Devs gotta dev.

[Bitbobb]

What's to misunderstand? A miner operating by the old rules sees a segwit transaction as an anyonecanspend transaction. Accordingly, that miner can spend the output to himself, should he be successful in mining the block. Of course, he would still need to get the other miners to extend his chain. But with enough value caught up in active transactions, there is an incentive for the miners to collude thusly. It may not come to pass, but it may. With Core adamant that they always act to vilify and marginalize the mining community, is it really that farfetched that such may come to pass?

6 “Will not all of them taunt him with ridicule and scorn, saying, “ ‘Woe to him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion! How long must this go on?’ 7 Will not your creditors suddenly arise? Will they not wake up and make you tremble? Then you will become their prey. 8 Because you have plundered many nations, the peoples who are left will plunder you. For you have shed human blood; you have destroyed lands and cities and everyone in them.

[jbreher]

Nexus...

You seem to be confused. This thread is dedicated to discussion of Bitcoin Cash.

Begone, foul apparition!

[classicsucks]

I'm always amazed at how fast changes happen in the crypto space. I mean, it's truly light speed!

today, ALL market fundamentals are pointing to a rise in BCH and likely a drop in BTC:
 * BTC fees have gone parabolic (https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-median_transaction_fee.html#1y)
 * BTC mempool is maxxed and hasn't dropped below 100MB for weeks, rendering it almost unusable
 * BCH adoption is very rapidly coming online, BTC adoption continues to decline
 * BCH has plenty of room to appreciate, while BTC feels topped out and overbought
 * Roger Ver interview on CNBC and the host agrees with him that BCH is the only way forward

Gentlemen, history is being made, right here, right now.

If Chicago wants to trade futures on a useless crypto, fine by me. I'll stick with coins that WORK.