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Question: How do you feel as a Moneypot Investor after one Investor got the following offer: even though he had lost 35 Bitcoin as an investor with Moneypot, he would have to keep his funds there until he made the loss back until December or Moneypot would refund h
Scammed - 9 (34.6%)
Fooled - 3 (11.5%)
Fair Treated - 8 (30.8%)
who is Moneypot - 6 (23.1%)
Total Voters: 26

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Author Topic: Moneypot Investors are invited to vote and speak up  (Read 1723 times)
Bitinity
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August 06, 2017, 04:49:22 AM
 #21

I invested 16 BTC

Didn't you get that money by stealing it from one of your players?

Never heard about it before and I do not find any accusations against him. If it is true, can you tell us how many btc have been stolen and why there is no one complaining it? I'm not in his side though, just so surprised to read your post about he stole money.
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August 06, 2017, 04:54:38 AM
 #22

Didn't you get that money by stealing it from one of your players?

I don't think that's a fair assessment. As I recall (my memory might be off) is he had a high house edge casino where the user is trying to win X bitcoin. There's two ways to structure it: The first is the obvious: the user does a high edge bet where the user was trying to win X bitcoin.

The second way is a bit more clever, you send a low-as-possible-edge bet to moneypot where the user is trying to win (X+N) and then if the user wins, "force tip" the N to the casino owner.

From a players perspective both ways of doing it are identical, so the player isn't getting cheated. (The extra money actually comes from screwing with the commissions that MP charges, and minimizing the "fat" on the bet for investors).

Back when I created/ran MP, I didn't really care because I never accepted any bets that weren't kelly compliant so it was still advantageous to investors; so really the worst case is just that I didn't make commissions, but considering the low volume that JPR did it wasn't an issue.

The real problem though was with some of the later changes under the new ownership, they would accept bets up to a 3.33x kelly (irrc?). For anyone not familiar with the kelly stuff, any bet >2x kelly is actively harmful for investors (at least in terms of expected br growth). So the only way this is really sane is if you expect very little high kelly bets, and get a lot of extra publicity due to it (e.g. the max profit is higher).   But the problem with JPRs style bets, is he effectively turned "good bets" into "bad bets" now.

As I've mentioned a few times, I think the real fix was to make sure that the site never accepted >1x kelly bets and not muck around with any bandaid solutions.   Although it definitely might make sense to stop JPRs "force tip" style of bets, because it's confusing to users and it's obviously intended to subverts the commission structure.

--

So anyway, I don't think it's fair to call JPR a thief. But he's sure annoying as fuck, and should move on with his life.

And regarding the thread, it's been >6 months since MP promised to pay back investors. I think the absolute least they could do is publish some pretty firm numbers to the people involved of how much they're going to pay them and in what sort of time frame. I understand it might take a few weeks, but it's now been months. If I held such a debt and made such promises, I would consider it my top priority.
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August 06, 2017, 05:26:19 AM
 #23

Didn't you get that money by stealing it from one of your players?

I don't think that's a fair assessment. As I recall (my memory might be off) is he had a high house edge casino where the user is trying to X bitcoin. There's two ways to structure it: The first is the obvious: the user does a high edge bet where the user was trying to win X bitcoin.

The second way is a bit more clever, you send a low-as-possible-edge bet to moneypot where the user is trying to win (X+N) and then if the user wins, "force tip" the N to the casino owner.

From a players perspective both ways of doing it are identical, so the player isn't getting cheated. (The extra money actually comes from screwing with the commissions that MP charges, and minimizing the "fat" on the bet for investors).

Back when I created/ran MP, I didn't really care because I never accepted any bets that weren't kelly compliant so it was still advantageous to investors; so really the worst case is just that I didn't make commissions, but considering the low volume that JPR did it wasn't an issue.

The real problem though was with some of the later changes under the new ownership, they would accept bets up to a 3.33x kelly (irrc?). For anyone not familiar with the kelly stuff, any bet >2x kelly is actively harmful for investors (at least in terms of expected br growth). So the only way this is really sane is if you expect very little high kelly bets, and get a lot of extra publicity due to it (e.g. the max profit is higher).   But the problem with JPRs style bets, is he effectively turned "good bets" into "bad bets" now.

As I've mentioned a few times, I think the real fix was to make sure that the site never accepted >1x kelly bets and not muck around with any bandaid solutions.   Although it definitely might make sense to stop JPRs "force tip" style of bets, because it's confusing to users and it's obviously intended to subverts the commission structure.

--

So anyway, I don't think it's fair to call JPR a thief. But he's sure annoying as fuck, and should move on with his life.

And regarding the thread, it's been >6 months since MP promised to pay back investors. I think the absolute least they could do is publish some pretty firm numbers to the people involved of how much they're going to pay them and in what sort of time frame. I understand it might take a few weeks, but it's now been months. If I held such a debt and made such promises, I would consider it my top priority.

thx for your posting

I just quoted it so you can't delete it

I will answer later in the day as soon I have more time

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August 06, 2017, 10:03:31 AM
 #24

I invested 16 BTC

Didn't you get that money by stealing it from one of your players?

hey DarkDays or should I call you joksim (your other account)?

even MP owner Ranlo confirmed that we did not steal any money because we are smart enough to write all our rules on the wall like FAQs or BCT posts. we are TRANSPARENT not like Moneypot trying to hide and mislead users and Investors

Why didnt any winner accused us that we stole from him? because we didnt! why are you claiming we stole from the winner? are you NotTardy the big winner? guess why NotTardy didnt accuse us that we stole from him? because he stole the big win! easy as that


just go back and read Ranlo's posting and also read RHavar posting above. (fingers crossed that those postings are still there)
and if you will again write we stole users money I will say with the same words as MP owner AcoinL aka Rango aka Matt aka Blacksheep and more

enjoy the Red!

don't forget to check later my answer to RHavar's last posting

edit
check Ranlo's answer again in case you didnt read it
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1366689.msg14590590#msg14590590

and here mine
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1366689.msg14592338#msg14592338

enjoy the red

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August 06, 2017, 12:20:54 PM
 #25

don't know if you know this. you sig links. sends people to site offline page. should maybe update sig

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August 06, 2017, 01:48:24 PM
 #26

don't know if you know this. you sig links. sends people to site offline page. should maybe update sig

thx for the info. the dev will fix it Smiley

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August 06, 2017, 06:05:34 PM
 #27


The second way is a bit more clever, you send a low-as-possible-edge bet to moneypot where the user is trying to win (X+N) and then if the user wins, "force tip" the N to the casino owner.

That's why I asked, there are so many shady people on these forums it's hard to keep track. 

I would say that having a player win a jackpot and force that player to give you 20BTC+ is quite shady and should call into question that person's character.  Especially when your site was already running at a 25% house edge.

But you're right, he is annoying as fuck.  Sometimes I just can't help myself. 


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August 06, 2017, 10:17:48 PM
 #28

I invested 16 BTC

Didn't you get that money by stealing it from one of your players?

hey DarkDays or should I call you joksim (your other account)?



He is my alt. Nice discovery.

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August 07, 2017, 08:35:16 PM
 #29

Didn't you get that money by stealing it from one of your players?

I don't think that's a fair assessment. As I recall (my memory might be off) is he had a high house edge casino where the user is trying to X bitcoin. There's two ways to structure it: The first is the obvious: the user does a high edge bet where the user was trying to win X bitcoin.

The second way is a bit more clever, you send a low-as-possible-edge bet to moneypot where the user is trying to win (X+N) and then if the user wins, "force tip" the N to the casino owner.

From a players perspective both ways of doing it are identical, so the player isn't getting cheated. (The extra money actually comes from screwing with the commissions that MP charges, and minimizing the "fat" on the bet for investors).

please let me explain
we had no high House Edge Casino but we had a Lottery game with an House Edge of 9.22%

all details and Rules were clearly published as it was when you were the owner

we published the rules and we never stole any coins

we took 10% from the Winner Jackpot for chat rain and our players were very happy with that because most JP winners didnt give a lot chat rain and a very good example is the big winner who gave 0.25 BTC for chat rain and we gave 8 BTC chat rain

we took 10% from the Winner Jackpot for the Affiliates

check those postings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1366689.msg14590590#msg14590590
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1366689.msg14592338#msg14592338

at the start we had a nice additional price for the JP Winner and gave them RBIES because we thought MP will implement RBIES (but they didnt and we stopped this price promo)

Quote
Back when I created/ran MP, I didn't really care because I never accepted any bets that weren't kelly compliant so it was still advantageous to investors; so really the worst case is just that I didn't make commissions, but considering the low volume that JPR did it wasn't an issue.

The real problem though was with some of the later changes under the new ownership, they would accept bets up to a 3.33x kelly (irrc?). For anyone not familiar with the kelly stuff, any bet >2x kelly is actively harmful for investors (at least in terms of expected br growth). So the only way this is really sane is if you expect very little high kelly bets, and get a lot of extra publicity due to it (e.g. the max profit is higher).   But the problem with JPRs style bets, is he effectively turned "good bets" into "bad bets" now.

please let me also explain here

very soon after you sold MP to new owners it was clear that they had no clue about Kelly Criterion but they didnt admit it even till today.( IMHO you never should have sold MP to this group because you promised to check the new buyer inside out and you should have understand that they have no clue because they are gamblers and even didnt have the money and needed to borrow the money to buy MP. (yes I know you can do whatever you like with your property)

our Lottery had a House Edge of 9.22%

let me ask you how much could a player win max at a game with 9.22% HE  with a 1000 bits bet in case you have 1x kelly and 1000 BTC Bank Roll?

maybe you mistakenly thought we offered the plinko with a risk of 85% of the BR and you wrote somewhere that it is ok with Kelly ( please correct me if I am wrong but I can try to search for the plinko discussion)

I would say that you are wrong by saying the problem with JPRs style bets, is he effectively turned "good bets" into "bad bets" now.

Quote
As I've mentioned a few times, I think the real fix was to make sure that the site never accepted >1x kelly bets and not muck around with any bandaid solutions.   Although it definitely might make sense to stop JPRs "force tip" style of bets, because it's confusing to users and it's obviously intended to subverts the commission structure.


agree with band aid solutions but thats only because MP owners dont know the KC and are looking for quick profit (their own profit)
they never should stop the forced tipping and never take off the faucet and it was never intended to subvert the commission structure. please remember that we handled it this way from the start when MP was in your hands.

now I have a chance to ask you and MP owners who received the about 8 BTC accumulated Jackpot amount in our Racer game? yes about 8 BTC! where are those? you sold MP to the new owners but did you give them the about 6 BTC accumulated Jackpot amount (the correct amount could be checked)? because lets assume the 2 big players in those times could have hit the Jackpot and the new owners would need to pay out. that means that if you didnt give this sum over to new owners the Investors or the new owners would have to pay out of their pocket and that would not have been fair.

now the question for the new MP owners: as the Jackpot accumulated later to about 8 BTC with the help of the big players Molloype and Jseonline and we closed the app not long ago I am asking where are those 8 BTC? did you keep those 8 BTC?

Quote
So anyway, I don't think it's fair to call JPR a thief. But he's sure annoying as fuck, and should move on with his life.

And regarding the thread, it's been >6 months since MP promised to pay back investors. I think the absolute least they could do is publish some pretty firm numbers to the people involved of how much they're going to pay them and in what sort of time frame. I understand it might take a few weeks, but it's now been months. If I held such a debt and made such promises, I would consider it my top priority.

I am not annoying as fuck but all the sig spammers  that follow you and the new MP owners deep in your A**

I didnt tell you what to do with your life so please dont tell me what to do. I will defend myself against anyone and you can spare your comments like annoying as fuck or toxic because it fits to you or did you forget when you gave BetterBets the preferred treatment and even loans or you defended the racist @yahoo without knowing the reason of the dispute? you guys are toxic and not me. or do you think it will help Dogedigital to write that I spread FUD and he is only saying this because he doesnt want to full fill his promise he gave to the Investors long ago. you (RHavar) know very well that I am right and sure I am annoying because I dont let the new MP owners spread their FUD and false promises.

anyway thx for the posting and to give me the chance to answer and to give my point of view

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August 07, 2017, 08:46:55 PM
 #30


The second way is a bit more clever, you send a low-as-possible-edge bet to moneypot where the user is trying to win (X+N) and then if the user wins, "force tip" the N to the casino owner.

That's why I asked, there are so many shady people on these forums it's hard to keep track. 

I would say that having a player win a jackpot and force that player to give you 20BTC+ is quite shady and should call into question that person's character.  Especially when your site was already running at a 25% house edge.

But you're right, he is annoying as fuck.  Sometimes I just can't help myself. 

hey joksim

I told you to read our FAQs and About because all was written there and every player knew the rules and accepted it with pleasure.

we did not have 25% HE please stop spreading FUD ( I love this word)

did NotTardy complain? please link me

let me something funny that happened on this big win day Smiley

NotTardy came to our app and he knew exactly what he wants and I smelled that something is wrong with this guy. he came straight to the app and chat and asked me for the double ride promo. but he did a mistake cause he wanted the double ride and knew that I cant double his ride cause he wagered max (900 bits) according to the Bank Roll on that day

I declined the double ride cause it would not be fair to ride also with 900 bits and not as the promo was with 1800 bits

can you imagine if I would accept the promo ride with him and we would split his big win? LOL what would you say? I am sure he would not split with me and that was the reason I declined the promo ride. but today I regret it that I didnt do the ride Smiley even he wouldnt split with me Smiley

joksim you are annoying as fuck - toxic - and go on with your life LOL

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August 08, 2017, 03:09:31 AM
 #31

The forced tip feature circumvented a mixture of the Moneypot commission and/or the investor's house edge.  You ended up in the possession of some or most of the funds from the forced tips.

Your site was a net negative for Moneypot.  It cost us more than we made from processing the bets.  Our biggest investors spoke out quite clearly about your app and had zero interest in backing it. 

We do take responsibility for having a 3.33x Kelly (although many investors preferred it that way).  We aren't as well versed as Ryan concerning Kelly Criterion, but we aren't completely clueless about it either.

I am not sure what you are referring to with the 8 BTC.

Although I wasn't part of the original purchasing team, I can say that you have a lot of information and details wrong.  Please stop assuming or guessing.

Moneypot was always a long term play.  We ended up forgoing any commission in the first few months and today have zero commission as well.  I have worked several hours for a year with no salary.  I haven't received any dividend directly from Moneypot.  I have invested a large sum of personal funds into Moneypot.  A 'quick profit' was never the goal and I find it very offensive that you believe that.

I have contact with all our biggest investors.  You are not currently invested in Moneypot. I wish you would stop trying to speak for them.  Granted it hasn't been the smoothest ride, but we are constantly working on making this all work.
Also, now that we have a more accurate timeline of completion, we can now tell you that soon = before end of the month for V2 & Rubies.

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August 08, 2017, 07:22:11 PM
 #32

The forced tip feature circumvented a mixture of the Moneypot commission and/or the investor's house edge.  You ended up in the possession of some or most of the funds from the forced tips.


Oh look, it's exactly what I was saying.

Cue another mentally unstable screed about how I am also Dogedigital and stealing money from player's wins is really a good thing.


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August 08, 2017, 07:41:09 PM
 #33

The forced tip feature circumvented a mixture of the Moneypot commission and/or the investor's house edge.  You ended up in the possession of some or most of the funds from the forced tips.


Oh look, it's exactly what I was saying.

Cue another mentally unstable screed about how I am also Dogedigital and stealing money from player's wins is really a good thing.

and I thought my english is bad. Dogedigital is the biggest FUDDER IMO and clown as RHavar wrote. Dogedigital thinks his lies will save Moneypot. it will not and time will tell as always


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August 08, 2017, 07:46:54 PM
 #34

Source?

Dogedigital is the biggest FUDDER IMO and clown as RHavar wrote.

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August 08, 2017, 07:49:23 PM
 #35

The forced tip feature circumvented a mixture of the Moneypot commission and/or the investor's house edge.  You ended up in the possession of some or most of the funds from the forced tips.

Your site was a net negative for Moneypot.  It cost us more than we made from processing the bets.  Our biggest investors spoke out quite clearly about your app and had zero interest in backing it. 

We do take responsibility for having a 3.33x Kelly (although many investors preferred it that way).  We aren't as well versed as Ryan concerning Kelly Criterion, but we aren't completely clueless about it either.

I am not sure what you are referring to with the 8 BTC.

Although I wasn't part of the original purchasing team, I can say that you have a lot of information and details wrong.  Please stop assuming or guessing.

Moneypot was always a long term play.  We ended up forgoing any commission in the first few months and today have zero commission as well.  I have worked several hours for a year with no salary.  I haven't received any dividend directly from Moneypot.  I have invested a large sum of personal funds into Moneypot.  A 'quick profit' was never the goal and I find it very offensive that you believe that.

I have contact with all our biggest investors.  You are not currently invested in Moneypot. I wish you would stop trying to speak for them.  Granted it hasn't been the smoothest ride, but we are constantly working on making this all work.
Also, now that we have a more accurate timeline of completion, we can now tell you that soon = before end of the month for V2 & Rubies.


Dogedigital you are an armor plated Liar!

you should stop fudding and to spread lies. I agreed with captain that he is angry that he couldnt withdraw. so I am the fudder LOL and he is the nice guy even he said the same as me! come on get real!

You are holding back Investors money! it is time to pay your debts!

4 MP partners and no one could answer here in forum? you were in the USA and it was terrible insecure to connect to BCT forum huh?

Rango lost his phone huh? this is the most stupid reasoning I have heard that he cant connect to BCT forum.

Ranlo is off! come on Ranlo was very busy online in other threads

this is FUD!
.

where are the * BTC of our accumulated Jackpot? you dont know what I am talking about? thx for the laugh because it is your business and you should know our app and the Jackpot.  8 BTC Jackpot  mostly accumulated by Molloype, Jseonline and bitcoingg.

you can try to fool your customers but you cant fool me. you should know that

your Bank Roll is 321 BTC and you are talking about a big investor and you invested also a lot!

in december you need to pay back 138 BTC ! just deduct this and explain where is another big investor?

do you really think v2 will save you? or RBIES? No Way, trust me

how many players are left? and those who are left are complaining!

Jackpotracer was top 3 app of 1000+ apps and you are telling me that Jackpotracer was negative for Moneypot? LOL
we brought many new users to MP paid with our money and promos and you cant deny this but I can show you many apps which were negative but you didnt care because you owned some

which app is earning money right now? I am talking about real money and not peanuts

Get Real! or MP will be soon history and not because of Jackpotracer but because of you 3 Musketeers

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August 08, 2017, 08:00:36 PM
 #36

I listed the reasons why I couldn't connect to the Bitcoin forum before.  Above that, noone really wants to interact or talk with you. I'm 99% sure they both have you on their ignore list.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about with the 8 BTC jackpot.  Please enlighten me.

Jackpotracer dust lottery was by and far a damaging product for us.  You constantly harassed us and all of our developers, bringing them to the point of wanting to quit. Plenty of App Owners were extremely put off with any interaction with you or any affiliation with your site and your site is not profitable for us or you if you didn't include the forced tip option. 

It's funny that we gave you an answer about when V2 is and you don't care about it but were screaming about it 24/7 earlier.  Why? Because you only care about spreading FUD about us. 

You get an idea into your head and you run with it to make us look bad but never adjust to what's being said or what's presented and there's absolutely no changing your mind.  It's destructive for both of us.   

I'm not perfect and I've made mistakes, but I'm listening, reviewing, strategizing and adjusting to do what I can to make this all right and to bring Moneypot back to its glory days and beyond.

You said time will tell.  Let us do our work.  Go do something that makes you happy in the meantime.

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August 08, 2017, 08:20:51 PM
 #37

You constantly harassed us and all of our developers, bringing them to the point of wanting to quit. Plenty of App Owners were extremely put off with any interaction with you or any affiliation with your site and your site is not profitable for us or you if you didn't include the forced tip option. 

Can confirm Cool He's quite possibly one of the most unpleasant people I've dealt with before.

I'm really not sure why he doesn't just use his energy for something more productive, it's not that much work to process payments using bitcoin and he could have his site up and running again and do things exactly how he likes with no restrictions.
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August 08, 2017, 08:36:34 PM
 #38

You constantly harassed us and all of our developers, bringing them to the point of wanting to quit. Plenty of App Owners were extremely put off with any interaction with you or any affiliation with your site and your site is not profitable for us or you if you didn't include the forced tip option. 

Can confirm Cool He's quite possibly one of the most unpleasant people I've dealt with before.

I'm really not sure why he doesn't just use his energy for something more productive, it's not that much work to process payments using bitcoin and he could have his site up and running again and do things exactly how he likes with no restrictions.

and I confirm that you said that Dogedigital is behaving like a clown and he is still behaving like a clown and liar and he really thinks he and MP will survive with v2 and RBIES (thx for the laugh)

and RHavar thinks he needs to support the clown because he sold MP to a bunch of clowns

RHavar also from you I want to have an explanation where the part of the 8 BTC Jackpot disappeared? if you didnt give over a part of it when you sold MP then you and your investors kept it. and if you gave it over to MP new owners then the new owners have it

and as I said before you and the Doge clan cant tell me what to do because I didnt tell you what to do and I dont like dictatorship. be smart and dont try it (at least with me)

and by the way how many times as MP owner did you lose your phone or have been in a country like the USA and you could not connect to BCT forum or slack in case users asked for help?

I know the answer and therefore you are right that Doge is a clown and I even will go so far to say that MP owners are a bunch of clowns

thx again for your posting




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August 08, 2017, 08:44:39 PM
 #39

MoneyPot is failing, it is clear to see. Was destined to end this way right when it was bought.

yes I agree but no one knows may be they boost up.
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August 08, 2017, 08:52:50 PM
 #40

RHavar also from you I want to have an explanation where the part of the 8 BTC Jackpot disappeared? if you didnt give over a part of it when you sold MP then you and your investors kept it. and if you gave it over to MP new owners then the new owners have it

I have no idea of what jackpot you are speaking of
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