[ANN][ZEN] Horizen: Unbounded By Design

[dmwardjr]

But again,  I'm not going to explain this to you nor do I have to.  If you choose to be naive, that's your choice.  Not mine...  Most of the surveillance done on copper wire is done with Longitudinal Current.  SOME is done with Metallic Current over plain old telephone service but not as much as it used to be.[/b]

I challenge you to describe how any type of signal would be able to run in the opposite direction against a DC current, survive a transformation into AC current... none of which is possible... and somehow do this without a modulator in the first place.  That's not naivety... that's science.

I promise you... the NSA has much easier ways to spy on you.

You're so full of shit, dude.  For someone who CLAIMS to be a damn electrical engineer, YOU DON"T KNOW SHIT.  ESPECIALLY, About transmission.  I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you IN DETAIL because you want to PRETEND like you know what the hell you're talking about when you don't.  You do NOT deserve my time.

EXAMPLE OF MANY BELOW:

You do NOT even realize the telephone line is POWERED BY DC, dude.  Do you?  It's 48 to 52 Volts DC.  However, when we talk it is AC.  When you press buttons to dial out, those are Dual Tone Multiple Frequencies (DTMF Tones).  Those tones are AC, Dude that's riding on the same damn two wires as the DC that's powering the circuit.  That's only one example of MANY.

Do you not realize when we talk on the telephone line, it is AC but IT IS POWERED BY DC.  Meaning, AC AND DC ARE BOTH ON THE SAME COMPONENTS (WIRE - COPPER).

YOU"RE FULL OF SHIT AND NOT WORTHY OF MY TIME.  STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU KNOW SOMETHING WHEN YOU DON"T

Your precious DC current is powering even old rotary phones with 48 to 52 volts DC on the phone line.  That's WHY you can still have dial tone with an old rotary phone when the power is out to your house.  Well, that precious DC current of yours can be converted into AC current when you talk on the damn phone by an oscillator by varying the capacitance when your voice bounces off the diaphragm to change the distance between the metal in the diaphragm and the metal in the oscillator.  Metal plates separated by an insulator is a capacitor.  But BOTTOM LINE:  AC is on the Tip and Ring WITH YOUR PRECIOUS DC THAT YOU SAID, "NONE OF WHICH IS POSSIBLE."  Actually, you're full of shit and do not even know it.

I don't know why I'm even bothering wasting my time explaining this to you.  You're a damn ass hole who wants to act like he knows every damn thing.  I will tell you this:  If I do not know something, I won't hesitate to tell you, "I DO NOT KNOW THAT" and I will NOT feel bad about not knowing it.  I'll simply invest the time to get to know it if I feel it's worthy of my time to know it.  That way, I avoid wasting someone else's time and I also avoid making a damn fool of myself; pretending I know something if I really don't.

I'm sure there are things you know that I don't know.  Does that make you any smarter than me or I than you if I know something you don't?  HELL NO.

So, STOP PRETENDING like you know something when you don't.  IF YOU'RE NOT 100% SURE OF SOMETHING, YOU NEED TO AVOID MAKING A FLAT STATEMENT.  Because it really doesn't look good if you're wrong.  No?

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[logictense]

How would you propose to solve the problem?

That's why I get paid $1,600 to $2,000 a day (8 hours) plus expenses; to answer questions like that.  If solving a more serious issue over a longer period of time, the charge can be more with contract.

Bottom Line:  I've been keeping my mouth shut; waiting to see how ZEN was going to pull this off.  I have yet to be convinced.

Puwaha is trying to insinuate that everything will go belly up if u dont pay him. I have personally known the guy for 70 decades and I struggle to remember anybody who could vouch for this guys words or behavior. When he was serving in the military Obama asked him to dispatch only two troops to Iraq to track down and nail members of a wealthy muslim family. This guy ordered 20 troops to go after one single family. He sucks at math.

[dmwardjr]

How would you propose to solve the problem?

That's why I get paid $1,600 to $2,000 a day (8 hours) plus expenses; to answer questions like that.  If solving a more serious issue over a longer period of time, the charge can be more with contract.

Bottom Line:  I've been keeping my mouth shut; waiting to see how ZEN was going to pull this off.  I have yet to be convinced.

Puwaha is trying to insinuate that everything will go belly up if u dont pay him. I have personally known the guy for 70 decades and I struggle to remember anybody who could vouch for this guys words or behavior. When he was serving in the military Obama asked him to dispatch only two troops to Iraq to track down and nail members of a wealthy muslim family. This guy ordered 20 troops to go after one single family. He sucks at math.

I'm not insinuating that at all, Ass hole.  I'm simply saying they're using marketing stunts to insinuate people will have privacy if things are done THEIR way; when all I'm saying is THEY WON'T and they are marketing HALF TRUTHS.

IGNORANCE ON THE PART OF USERS IS BLISS!  In what way?  It's blissful for the developers and founders because the developers and founders are the ones making all the money from the ignorant ones when marketing with HALF TRUTHS.  No?

And to be honest; I would NOT accept a damn dime from them if they wanted me to join the team to help.  NOT AFTER THEY SCREWED THE COMMUNITY WHO SUPPORTED AND MARKETED FOR THEM.  But you go ahead and brown nose because I'm not.  I don't like shit on my nose.  The shit the founders have done freaking stinks.  I don't see how you stand brown nosing with the way the shit they have done stinks.

Bottom line:  I'm a man of PRINCIPLES.  I actually VALUE my reputation.  If they offered me millions of dollars to join their team I would not do it if it meant marketing with HALF TRUTHS.  Yes, they can keep data private on the internet IF IT'S ON THEIR BLOCKCHAIN.  However, CAN THEY keep governments; institutions; corporations from seeing that data BEFORE it ever gets on their precious blockchain?  If they SOLVE THAT, THEY ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE.

[falsealarm_bf1]

I am as today officially out of Horizen (Horrific-Zen) I don't support projects that do not support their community.
Just turn off my 2 secure nodes and pointing my rigs to Ravencoin and Monero, selling all my zen and disconnecting from this blog.
Moreover, if all GPU miners turn off their secure nodes it will show the community discontent.

farewell!

Wow! dmwardjr's alter-ego is just as angry as he is, probably a Qanon peddler, and a devout Tramp supporter as well. Make Zencash Great Again Needless to say I stopped reading dmwardjr's posts a while ago when he turned poison.

[MedaR]

Nice little mention on CoinDesk:

https://www.coindesk.com/the-fight-over-masternodes-the-wtf-new-way-to-earn-money-with-crypto/

[that1lurk3r]

dmwardjr let it go man, its one and done.

[vrap.pm]

I am as today officially out of Horizen (Horrific-Zen) I don't support projects that do not support their community.
Just turn off my 2 secure nodes and pointing my rigs to Ravencoin and Monero, selling all my zen and disconnecting from this blog.
Moreover, if all GPU miners turn off their secure nodes it will show the community discontent.

farewell!
[/quote
Their "COMMUNITY" will now consist of a few ASIC miners and manufacturers of ASIC's and maybe a few speculators.  As for as any expectation of REAL SUBSTANTIAL GROWTH, that expectation is GONE.  I see a LOT of their so-called "COMMUNITY" moving over to Monero.

There are now a few miners that controls about all the mined coins, and that are trying to sell to the suckers...

And there is a guy screaming that we can focus on nodes, it is like to say to keep the crumbs, while big ASIC industry controls almost all the cake.

The price of Zen is falling everyday. a coins that was steady at 30/35 USD for months is now below 20USD, and with no perspective of beeing better at mid-term.

This project to me is marching to letargy, not to say worst.

Was a project i liked a lot, but now that was "sold" to ASIC industry i doubt that this will see bright days.

And it is sad to me, because i had great expectations with this project, and now i have to look arround in order to find a better one, maybe monero....

Devs don´t mind because they have a 10% piece of cake to them, and "maybe", "maybe" a free batch of ASIC miners to them....

[puwaha]

But again,  I'm not going to explain this to you nor do I have to.  If you choose to be naive, that's your choice.  Not mine...  Most of the surveillance done on copper wire is done with Longitudinal Current.  SOME is done with Metallic Current over plain old telephone service but not as much as it used to be.[/b]

I challenge you to describe how any type of signal would be able to run in the opposite direction against a DC current, survive a transformation into AC current... none of which is possible... and somehow do this without a modulator in the first place.  That's not naivety... that's science.

I promise you... the NSA has much easier ways to spy on you.

You're so full of shit, dude.  For someone who CLAIMS to be a damn electrical engineer, YOU DON"T KNOW SHIT.  ESPECIALLY, About transmission.  I'm not going to bother trying to explain it to you IN DETAIL because you want to PRETEND like you know what the hell you're talking about when you don't.  You do NOT deserve my time.

If you can't keep it civil, then I'm sure you are a peach to work with in the real world.

EXAMPLE OF MANY BELOW:

You do NOT even realize the telephone line is POWERED BY DC, dude.  Do you?  It's 48 to 52 Volts DC.  However, when we talk it is AC.  When you press buttons to dial out, those are Dual Tone Multiple Frequencies (DTMF Tones).  Those tones are AC, Dude that's riding on the same damn two wires as the DC that's powering the circuit.  That's only one example of MANY.

Do you not realize when we talk on the telephone line, it is AC but IT IS POWERED BY DC.  Meaning, AC AND DC ARE BOTH ON THE SAME COMPONENTS (WIRE - COPPER).

YOU"RE FULL OF SHIT AND NOT WORTHY OF MY TIME.  STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU KNOW SOMETHING WHEN YOU DON"T

Your precious DC current is powering even old rotary phones with 48 to 52 volts DC on the phone line.  That's WHY you can still have dial tone with an old rotary phone when the power is out to your house.  Well, that precious DC current of yours can be converted into AC current when you talk on the damn phone by an oscillator by varying the capacitance when your voice bounces off the diaphragm to change the distance between the metal in the diaphragm and the metal in the oscillator.  Metal plates separated by an insulator is a capacitor.  But BOTTOM LINE:  AC is on the Tip and Ring WITH YOUR PRECIOUS DC THAT YOU SAID, "NONE OF WHICH IS POSSIBLE."  Actually, you're full of shit and do not even know it.

I don't know why I'm even bothering wasting my time explaining this to you.  You're a damn ass hole who wants to act like he knows every damn thing.  I will tell you this:  If I do not know something, I won't hesitate to tell you, "I DO NOT KNOW THAT" and I will NOT feel bad about not knowing it.  I'll simply invest the time to get to know it if I feel it's worthy of my time to know it.  That way, I avoid wasting someone else's time and I also avoid making a damn fool of myself; pretending I know something if I really don't.

I'm sure there are things you know that I don't know.  Does that make you any smarter than me or I than you if I know something you don't?  HELL NO.

So, STOP PRETENDING like you know something when you don't.  IF YOU'RE NOT 100% SURE OF SOMETHING, YOU NEED TO AVOID MAKING A FLAT STATEMENT.  Because it really doesn't look good if you're wrong.  No?

Nothing you have written has explained your claim that the NSA can spy on you by simply plugging in your computer to a wall socket.  You keep going on and on about phone communications, and it has nothing to do with what your claim is about.  No signal is modulated, sent backwards through your power supply, is then re-modulated into AC so that the NSA can spy on you.

You keep dancing around the point trying to show how smart you are.  You bring up a non-sequitur involving phone communications to try and back your way into the fact that what you claim the NSA can do is impossible.

[puwaha]

That's where you're wrong, Sir.  I'm a Transmission Engineer and have taught engineering design of the outside plant to Outside Plant Engineers and Telephone Technicians how to use their meter to identify and locate troubles since July 27, 1997.  I've been in the industry since 1984.

I'm not wrong.  Signals are useless without something to modulate them and demodulate them.  Tell me... what device do you have in your computer right now that can modulate a usable signal across a DC current (that only flows in one direction mind you)... back to your AC/DC converter (power supply), and then re-transmit that signal on an AC current where it can be demodulated by those covert NSA folks you worry about?

So, you're telling me the components in a computer do not use signals between components to tell it what to do?  You know what binary code is right?  Binary code is transmitted within components in a computer in the form of voltage for a "1" and no voltage for a "0."  Frequencies represent PACKAGES of "1's" and "0's" in ADSL.

CAN'T DC CURRENT BE SWITCHED ON FOR A DAMN ONE (1) AND OFF FOR A DAMN ZERO (0)?

YES, IT CAN.  It's called PULSATING DC.

Again, JUST STOP MAKING A DAMN FOOL OF YOURSELF.

As for explaining the other stuff to you, that will cost you and the ZEN TEAM SOME DAMN MONEY.

Seriously?  Pulsating DC is not AC.  It does not reverse polarity... it's just DC that is pulsed... turned off an on.  The direction never changes.  Who's the fool again?

[puwaha]

Spectre and Meltdown are CPU design flaws having to do with the lack of security in out-of-order instructions.  There is no "chip within a chip".  Any article that would write that... has no fundamental understanding of the problem.  Spectre and Meltdown can affect any CPU with out-of-order instruction processing, unless the OS takes specific measures to prevent it.  That includes Intel, AMD, ARM, and many other smaller players.  So you are saying the NSA infiltrated all of these companies and specifically told the computer scientists who developed out-of-order instruction processing back in the 1990s... for the express reason to "drop in on you?"  That's a long, long game... and that's not what happened.

It was simply a design flaw that was found to be exploitable.

The point I'm making is they KNEW the design flaw was there all along.

It only became a design flaw when it was demonstrated to be exploitable.  Until then, it was a genius way to speed up instruction execution.  Software engineers who work on kernel exec have a responsibility in this too.  They were the ones who recognized a problem in the way they designed kernel security and tried to randomize address space to keep an exploit mitigated.

This is not a problem of subterfuge from the beginning, but of a retrospect understanding that kernels that don't specifically address a lack of security in chip design could be exploited.

[MedaR]

Op reads: something will be allocated over to somebody through the reward droppings funded by Horizen treasure. Im not asking where the treasury is, that would a rhetoric question. Just wanna know if theres any treasury and who is in charge of it. I could pull a mind control trick on u to extract the knowledge in its original form ur carcass if I wanted to.

The Zen Blockchain Foundation is the legal entity that allocates Treasury funds. One of our active projects is to provide our community visibility on how the funds are allocated -- (% of funds allocated for engineering, marketing, team compensation, integrations, etc.). Currently, the Foundation delegates authority to team leadership/directors on the use and prioritization of budget. Soon resource allocation decisions will be made by the DAO. Our DAO is still experimental, and we'll likely incrementally increase the resources available for the DAO. Meaning, when the DAO goes live in production it may not have 100% of the funds available to vote on. Blockchain technology and decentralized governance are experimental. We will proceed with caution and release a MVP that will require tuning and refinement. Ultimately, we look forward to the day when we successfully implement our DAO and have a programmatic liquid democracy in place! Furthermore, our team leadership consists of respective individuals in their fields. We do not need to compromise our combined 70 years of experience and reputation.

[puwaha]

You kind of just proved my point.  Signal modulation and demodulation require a device that can do so.  You need a modem to do so.  There is no magic device that can do that from your computer unless it is specifically built to do so.

There is equipment on the power line to actually ACT AS THE DAMN MODEM, DUDE.

Where is it specifically in your computer?

Also, EVER HEARD of SMART APPLIANCES?  The power company has plans to shut off devices in the future if they think you're using too much power with that device.  At least that's what globalist/environmentalist snowflakes want.

Sure, everyone's heard of smart appliances... but they were built with the capability to do so.  You computer is not.

The power company would NOT need your damn modem (internet) to shut off that appliance.  They can shut it off communicating with it through the damn power line in the house.  The smart meter acts as a modem.  The NSA and CIA have devices they can connect to the power line to act as a modem.  YOU JUST DON"T GET IT, DUDE.

Yell and scream all you want.  You cannot demonstrate that any component in your computer can be turned into a modem.  It doesn't matter if the NSA can put a signal on your power line, if there is nothing in your computer that can act on it.

Just STOP...   lol

I agree... you should just stop.  You can't demonstrate any way that this is possible on your computer.  All you have demonstrated is that with specialized equipment that conforms to a smart appliance standard it could be possible... but your computer is not built like that.

You're making a damn fool of yourself.  You're simply fortunate most people do not know this.  Which means they are unaware you are making a fool of yourself.[/b]

The challenge still stands.  You keep dancing around it.

[puwaha]

I'm NOT going to give a detailed course on here explaining how the conversion from longitudinal currents on the power line can be used to see DATA transmitted in a modem LONGITUDINALLY.  POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) used to be strictly Metallic Current.  Now, in the age of VOIP (Voice of Internet Provider), the voice is also transmitted LONGITUDINALLY; NOT METALLICALLY through CLEC's (Competitive Local Exchange Carriers) but metallically through most ILEC's.

I'm glad, because honestly, I think you are confused.  I'm sure you are great at your job though, but just remember... signal processing doesn't just magically happen.

Actually, you're the one confused and do not even realize it.  You do not have the knowledge to even realize it.  What a shame...

It's quite the opposite actually.  You were called out on your NSA tin-foil hat nonsense, and you think that by going on and on about how much you know about telecommunications will prove that you are right.  Nothing that you have talked about in the last two pages makes it possible for the NSA to spy on your computer by simply plugging it into the wall.  A computer does not have the physical capacity to do what you insinuate without specialized hardware built with specific communication protocols.

[puwaha]

How would you propose to solve the problem?

That's why I get paid $1,600 to $2,000 a day (8 hours) plus expenses; to answer questions like that.  If solving a more serious issue over a longer period of time, the charge can be more with contract.

Bottom Line:  I've been keeping my mouth shut; waiting to see how ZEN was going to pull this off.  I have yet to be convinced.

Puwaha is trying to insinuate that everything will go belly up if u dont pay him. I have personally known the guy for 70 decades and I struggle to remember anybody who could vouch for this guys words or behavior. When he was serving in the military Obama asked him to dispatch only two troops to Iraq to track down and nail members of a wealthy muslim family. This guy ordered 20 troops to go after one single family. He sucks at math.

I think you need to replace "puwaha" with "dmwardjr" in your statement... then it will be true.  I'm not the one who claims some tin-foil hat conspiracy and then tries to dance around with information that has nothing to do with the original claim.

[Anarchist]

Hi guys.

Do you have a list posted somewhere about services providing Zen node set up?

[MedaR]

Devs don´t mind because they have a 10% piece of cake to them, and "maybe", "maybe" a free batch of ASIC miners to them....

Strange how some accusations can be thrown without facts, and this comes from an supporter who yesterday wanted to join Campaign. I understand your anger but some posts here are exaggerated.

There are now a few miners that controls about all the mined coins, and that are trying to sell to the suckers...

And there is a guy screaming that we can focus on nodes, it is like to say to keep the crumbs, while big ASIC industry controls almost all the cake.

The price of Zen is falling everyday. a coins that was steady at 30/35 USD for months is now below 20USD, and with no perspective of beeing better at mid-term.

This project to me is marching to letargy, not to say worst.

Was a project i liked a lot, but now that was "sold" to ASIC industry i doubt that this will see bright days.

And it is sad to me, because i had great expectations with this project, and now i have to look arround in order to find a better one, maybe monero....

 - Security of this project is priority
 - This project is not all about mining
 - There are a lot of things need to be done in coming period, we are sticking for the road map.

Moving to a blockDAG should allow us to collapse the difficulty to a point where single GPU solo mining is possible once again. This has been talked about for 8+ months now and has always been the mid term solution we're aiming for.

The recent decision simply means that we aren't willing to risk a drop in hash by shifting parameters, and become target for another attack.  

The real solution to decentralise mining is and almost always has been the blockDAG, that's why it's a fully funded project that's already well underway.
Rowan Stone

https://medium.com/@drstone/an-overview-of-proof-of-work-based-blockchain-consensus-protocols-part-1-e04102885093  https://medium.com/@drstone/an-overview-of-spectre-a-blockdag-consensus-protocol-part-2-36d3d2bd33fc  https://medium.com/@drstone/an-overview-of-phantom-a-blockdag-consensus-protocol-part-3-f28fa5d76ef7

Quote from above means we alredy are working on our own solutions for this problem - long term solution, instead of rushing into something that can cause us  more problems and potential security vulnerabilities.  BlockDAG is meant to collapse difficulty. It was always meant to be the long term solution to mining centralization.

The current decision was based on a parameter change that was a very short-term action. We are hoping to start the DAO implementation Q4 of this year, so you will have chance to vote fairly for any kind of changes you want.

[LeGaulois]

I prefer a lot to see the team working for a long-term solution rather than something that will last 2 weeks lol

Hi guys.

Do you have a list posted somewhere about services providing Zen node set up?

I know about this one https://chainsaw.ninja/. There are few others services, I usually stumble upon on the Discord channel

[MedaR]

I prefer a lot to see the team working for a long-term solution rather than something that will last 2 weeks lol

Hi guys.

Do you have a list posted somewhere about services providing Zen node set up?

I know about this one https://chainsaw.ninja/. There are few others services, I usually stumble upon on the Discord channel

https://zencash.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/ZEN/pages/7537080/Community+Hosting+and+Setup+List

[Conasse]

Hi guys.

Do you have a list posted somewhere about services providing Zen node set up?

Why not set a node yourself? It may look difficult first seen, but there is all info needed on their blog or BlockOPS blog too.
In case there is a step you struggle they can help you

[MedaR]

Hi guys.

Do you have a list posted somewhere about services providing Zen node set up?

Why not set a node yourself? It may look difficult first seen, but there is all info needed on their blog or BlockOPS blog too.
In case there is a step you struggle they can help you

Use only this instruction + help from Discord channel
https://zencash.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/ZEN/pages/7537322/Installation

BlockOPS blog is obsolete