Anti-Bitcoin Socialist Propaganda in New Zealand

[BitcoinAshley]

You do have to admit that their worry about the apparent disability of paying taxes on bitcoin is a somewhat valid one. If suddenly a majority of people would no longer pay any taxes then the entity you owed taxes to earlier, in this case the governing body, will do everything in their power to get that tax money back, one of which ways could be to make it highly illegal, causing its value to plummet.

Yes, because making things illegal usually causes their value to plummet
In general, this is not the case. Making things illegal usually reduces supply. In that case it'd be harder to get bitcoin, since there would be fewer or no established exchanges that you could get fiat to. In the same way that you have to go out to sketchy Joe McDealer to get your marijuana, you'd have to buy bitcoins from your geeky neighbor. Marijuana price hasn't exactly gone down, in fact over the last 50 years it's gone up even adjusted for inflation (yes, I am aware that fundamentals of the two items are vastly differert and must be considered.)
Making things illegal doesn't necessarily reduce demand and can sometimes increase. In fact, bizarre regulations and governmental abuse are something that draws more attention to bitcoin as a way to fight against that. I will admit that there is a strong case to be made that bitcoins' potentially reduced utility as a currency if made illegal (fewer businesses) could result in reduced demand leading to a price drop because of legal status, however, I do not believe this would be the case. I would argue that its function as a store of value that in the long term has out-performed all fiat currencies, its role as a method to bypass the corrupt bankster cartels, and other features, are more important.
But if you want to think that using bitcoin to go down to the Ghandi Mart and get cigarettes and petrol is more important than defeating the corrupt central banksters, fine by me. In that case, bitcoin's value would indeed go down if its legal status were threatened.

Not to mention that no taxes would be quite problematic for things such as [...] the agencies responsible for keeping water clear of any dangers

Yes, because they're doing such a good job of that...
Last I checked, water pollution was an epic problem and our government would rather spend money on bombs and guns than cleaning up the rivers and oceans. Giving them more tax money is certainly not the best way to convince them to change their priorities. "If you give a mouse a cookie..."

and the FDA for keeping out food clean,

Yup, just go look at the list of horrifying carcinogenic chemicals in any grocery store item or its packaging, and tell me the FDA is doing a good job. Heck, they can't even keep rotten meat out of baby food or lead out of vinyl children's lunchboxes.

or even the FCC to keep standards going.

Sure, because there hasn't ever been an industry where standards have successfully been met and adhered to without the assistance of a state regulatory body. Yes, there are plenty of cases where state-enforced monopolies are allowed to roam free and "Ghost" regulatory bodies like the FDA are expected to clean up after them. There are also successful cases of industry standards being kept in check by the interests of competition as well as consumer demand and other natural market forces.

Heck, imagine the horrific situation we would be in if all government grants were to suddenly disappear.

Yeah, heck, that'd be horrific. 
Stefan wrote some books just for you, buddy. Check them out, they're free, text or audio. Also he accepts bitcoin donations 

QFT:

These are not people to be argued with, since they will never, ever be swayed by any argument, however compelling. The only way to change these people's minds is to take away their taxpayer-filled feeding troughs.
And that's what bitcoin allows us to do ... we don't have to explain to them how we are doing it, why we are doing it or grovel for their permission to do it ... or why they are wrong to want to keep feeding from their free troughs.

We just do it, like Satoshi.

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[aquarius]

Good propaganda. Some people actually believe it, because they confuse them with their amazing stupidity.

don´t worry, natural selection will discard them sooner than you think

[Coinseeker]

You do have to admit that their worry about the apparent disability of paying taxes on bitcoin is a somewhat valid one. If suddenly a majority of people would no longer pay any taxes then the entity you owed taxes to earlier, in this case the governing body, will do everything in their power to get that tax money back, one of which ways could be to make it highly illegal, causing its value to plummet.

Yes, because making things illegal usually causes their value to plummet
In general, this is not the case. Making things illegal usually reduces supply. In that case it'd be harder to get bitcoin, since there would be fewer or no established exchanges that you could get fiat to. In the same way that you have to go out to sketchy Joe McDealer to get your marijuana, you'd have to buy bitcoins from your geeky neighbor. Marijuana price hasn't exactly gone down, in fact over the last 50 years it's gone up even adjusted for inflation (yes, I am aware that fundamentals of the two items are vastly differert and must be considered.)
Making things illegal doesn't necessarily reduce demand and can sometimes increase. In fact, bizarre regulations and governmental abuse are something that draws more attention to bitcoin as a way to fight against that. I will admit that there is a strong case to be made that bitcoins' potentially reduced utility as a currency if made illegal (fewer businesses) could result in reduced demand leading to a price drop because of legal status, however, I do not believe this would be the case. I would argue that its function as a store of value that in the long term has out-performed all fiat currencies, its role as a method to bypass the corrupt bankster cartels, and other features, are more important.
But if you want to think that using bitcoin to go down to the Ghandi Mart and get cigarettes and petrol is more important than defeating the corrupt central banksters, fine by me. In that case, bitcoin's value would indeed go down if its legal status were threatened.

Not to mention that no taxes would be quite problematic for things such as [...] the agencies responsible for keeping water clear of any dangers

Yes, because they're doing such a good job of that...
Last I checked, water pollution was an epic problem and our government would rather spend money on bombs and guns than cleaning up the rivers and oceans. Giving them more tax money is certainly not the best way to convince them to change their priorities. "If you give a mouse a cookie..."

and the FDA for keeping out food clean,

Yup, just go look at the list of horrifying carcinogenic chemicals in any grocery store item or its packaging, and tell me the FDA is doing a good job. Heck, they can't even keep rotten meat out of baby food or lead out of vinyl children's lunchboxes.

or even the FCC to keep standards going.

Sure, because there hasn't ever been an industry where standards have successfully been met and adhered to without the assistance of a state regulatory body. Yes, there are plenty of cases where state-enforced monopolies are allowed to roam free and "Ghost" regulatory bodies like the FDA are expected to clean up after them. There are also successful cases of industry standards being kept in check by the interests of competition as well as consumer demand and other natural market forces.

Heck, imagine the horrific situation we would be in if all government grants were to suddenly disappear.

Yeah, heck, that'd be horrific. 
Stefan wrote some books just for you, buddy. Check them out, they're free, text or audio. Also he accepts bitcoin donations 

QFT:

These are not people to be argued with, since they will never, ever be swayed by any argument, however compelling. The only way to change these people's minds is to take away their taxpayer-filled feeding troughs.
And that's what bitcoin allows us to do ... we don't have to explain to them how we are doing it, why we are doing it or grovel for their permission to do it ... or why they are wrong to want to keep feeding from their free troughs.

We just do it, like Satoshi.

You see all of this is a true libertarian view point, which I think anyone is entitled to have.  Although IMO, it's just not based in rational reality.  Saying the FDA is useless because you can site a handful of incidents is just silly.  Hundreds of millions of people survive eating, drinking and taking medicine because of the FDA, every single day.  Including you if you live in the states.  That's like saying we shouldn't fly in airplanes or drive cars because sometimes they crash.   

Basically what I'm starting to realize is that there are people who want to take this world back to the stone age with no infrastructure, no oversight and no regulations.  So, if that's the world we were to have, we would have no need for currency. We'd be back to hunters and gathers so it really just seems self defeating to me.  What do we need Bitcoin for?

Dealing with the banking system is another animal all together and that to me is where Bitcoin can thrive.  Giving the people an option to bypass the banks but in the end, it still must be converted back to fiat, if there aren't enough business to deal strictly in Bitcoins.  Which there aren't. 

As long as one can't pay for the basic necessities to survive...Rent, utilities, food, healthcare and education...this "let's get rid of government and world currencies" thinking, is going nowhere and it just makes Bitcoin sound like an irrational cult.  Even if the dream is to replace all fiat, Bitcoin itself is fiat and is propped up by the very fiat many seem to despise.  It wouldn't currently be sitting at 100+ if it wasn't for the worlds currency being pumped into it.  I'm not one of those that believes fiat is evil on it's own.  It is amoral to me.  It is those in charge, the banks, the Fed, etc. that keep the world prisoner to their systems of control.  Bypassing these entities via Bitcoin is a winner but only if integrated into regular, modern society.  I'm certainly not going back to stone age living, just to prove a point to bankers.  We've simply thrown the baby out with the bath water. 

And just food for thought...what do we do when the oil runs out and everything goes dark?  No computers, no internet access.  What happens to Bitcoin then?

[marcus_of_augustus]

I vote that this thread be moved to 'Politics' ....

coinseeker: suggest you do some self-learning on monetary history and society... like lots and lots of it, you seem either lost and out of touch or so thoroughly enthralled with the entirety of the modern false fiat-bubble-world reality that makes you appear to be adrift in these uncharted territories, it's hard to tell ... 'just saying'.

Take the Red pill.  Read the links in Resources

[Coinseeker]

I vote that this thread be moved to 'Politics' ....

coinseeker: suggest you do some self-learning on monetary history and society... like lots and lots of it, you seem either lost and out of touch or so thoroughly enthralled with the entirety of the modern false fiat-bubble-world reality that makes you appear to be adrift in these uncharted territories, it's hard to tell ... 'just saying'.

Take the Red pill.  Read the links in Resources

No, I'm logical.  You can't have Bitcoin without businesses.  You can't have businesses without infrastructure.  You can't have infrastructure without taxes and you can't have taxes, without some form or body (gorvenment) collecting it.  So, no I do not support this destroy the modern world ideology some of you believe in.  It is utterly ridiculous and an anonymous online currency is not going to get it done, just because that's what you want.  

If you had legitimate arguments, you should pose them instead of doing what seems to be the height of your intellect and that's dismal when you're positions are being challenged.  The "I'm taking my ball and going home" strategy only works in forums.  Not going to work in the real world.  So fortuantly for those of us that believe in Bitcoin on a much higher and realistic level, thankfully you have no intentions of speaking to the masses so that's good for us.  There's still hope.  We have enough rhetoric to battle, let alone battle the rhetoric from within the Bitcoin community.

And if you're going to send me links, don't send me crazy blog posts and call them facts. The first link I saw was to a Ron Paul video, who is a nut case, with ZERO chance of ever being president or leading anything supported by the masses.  (except for legalizing drugs.    ) I'm currently out of tin foil as I spent my money on Bitcoins.  And it was fiat I bought it with too.    Any crypto that is to be adopted by the masses WILL coexist with the world fiat for quite a long time.  All others will be exclusive to black market transactions or die altogether.  You can live in your Ron Paul fantasy, that is your right, but it doesn't make your way the way of crypto.  Since you like Matrix analogies, yours is a system that humanity just won't accept.  "Whole crops would be lost."...so to speak.  

EDIT:  But I do get it now.  I didn't realize when I came upon Bitcoin that there were so many libertarians involved.  Again, totally those people right.  But it's also within my right to label these people crazy, tin-foil hat consiracy theorists who would rather see the whole world burn and would love nothing more than use Bitcoin to do.  Just know, I'm not on your side and if you can't beat me in a debate, you have no chance in the real world.

[marcus_of_augustus]

You can't have Bitcoin without businesses.

You very first premise is a fallacy ... we already had Bitcoin before any businesses were involved. We will still have Bitcoin if no businesses get involved, just not your vision of "Bitcoin" ... let it be, you can not control the world, noone can, not even socialist control freaks.

But I do get it now.  I didn't realize when I came upon Bitcoin that there were so many libertarians involved.  Again, totally those people right.  But it's also within my right to label these people crazy, tin-foil hat consiracy theorists who would rather see the whole world burn and would love nothing more than use Bitcoin to do.  Just know, I'm not on your side and if you can't beat me in a debate, you have no chance in the real world.

You are a late comer ... we already argued all this stuff out right here 2 years ago ... read the archives ... you already lost the argument but don't know it yet and I'm not going to indulge you with my intellect since the first arrivals deserved it more.

tl;dr ... It's already all been said ... I don't need to argue or reason with late arrivals and low-brow socialists anymore ... thanks anyway, lead the sheep where-ever you think is right but if you're using our money who cares?

[Lethn]

EDIT:  But I do get it now.  I didn't realize when I came upon Bitcoin that there were so many libertarians involved.  Again, totally those people right.  But it's also within my right to label these people crazy, tin-foil hat consiracy theorists who would rather see the whole world burn and would love nothing more than use Bitcoin to do.  Just know, I'm not on your side and if you can't beat me in a debate, you have no chance in the real world.

Just thought I'd say speaking as someone with Libertarian/Anarchist beliefs, I don't want to see the 'whole' world burn, I just want to see the world of people like you crumble around you because it can only exist through the theft of other peoples' wealth. People like you conveniently forget that when you actually take action and don't pay taxes, you go to jail, our current society does not exist on a voluntary basis, if I could completely abandon this system I would, that's why I support Bitcoin.

[Coinseeker]

You can't have Bitcoin without businesses.

You very first premise is a fallacy ... we already had Bitcoin before any businesses were involved. We will still have Bitcoin if no businesses get involved, just not your vision of "Bitcoin" ... let it be, you can not control the world, noone can, not even socialist control freaks.

My vision of "Bitcoin" is universal...worldwide adoption.  Yours is a narrow, exclusive club no more powerful than your average local store gift card.  We'll either take it from you and do it right or...we'll blackball you and stand behind a different crypto.  Either way, in humanity....majority rules. 

You are a late comer ... we already argued all this stuff out right here 2 years ago ... read the archives ... you already lost the argument but don't know it yet and I'm not going to indulge you with my intellect since the first arrivals deserved it more.

tl;dr ... It's already all been said ... I don't need to argue or reason with late arrivals and low-brow socialists anymore ... thanks anyway, lead the sheep where-ever you think is right but if you're using our money who cares?

Like I said, I didn't understand libertarians were so involved, so it all makes sense.  I see why attacks go unchallenged, why dismal and name calling is the extent of the arguments, because there are no arguments for a group that want to use Bitcoin as a tool to destroy the world.  It's rather funny.  So passionate about something that will never happen.  Like I said, we're taking it from you and since this group has done the hard job of labeling themselves the tin-foil hat nuts, our job is easy.  That's right, we'll lead the sheep...which you and yours are completely incapable of doing.     This is why you'll lose and why you always lose.  You don't understand basic humanity and because of that, you...are...genetically...obsolete. 

No more free tips for you...best of luck.  You're gonna need it.   

[marcus_of_augustus]

I see why attacks go unchallenged, why dismissal (fixed spelling here for you) and name calling is the extent of the arguments,

Maybe it's the messenger and not the message.  Just a thought.  

Kind of ironic seeing as you began the personal slurs and name calling in this thread ... that's pretty much when I decided you really are not worth arguing with .. you have become just troll bait at this point it seems.

ike I said, we're taking it from you and since this group has done the hard job of labeling themselves the tin-foil hat nuts, our job is easy.  That's right, we'll lead the sheep...which you and yours are completely incapable of doing.

Although your delusions of grandeur are comical enough to suggest you are actually trying to be funny? Or maybe you are just a nasty piece of work pretending to be all warm, fuzzy and humanity-loving but truly just want to fleece them?

This is why you'll lose and why you always lose.  You don't understand basic humanity and because of that, you...are...genetically...obsolete.  

Ummm, no. You'll lose because we have the ideas and the technology ... all you got is PR, a big cheesy fake smile and a hand permanently stuck in humanity's wallet.

No more free tips for you...best of luck.  You're gonna need it.

That's fine, I've never been tipped in bitcoin and have never begged for any. Thanks, but I don't need your luck I have reason, logic and more than enough BTC ... be careful you don't miss our next great project that will make your bitcoins obsolete in a blink if we so choose  

[Coinseeker]

I see why attacks go unchallenged, why dismissal (fixed spelling here for you) and name calling is the extent of the arguments,

Maybe it's the messenger and not the message.  Just a thought.  

Kind of ironic seeing as you began the personal slurs and name calling in this thread ... that's pretty much when I decided you really are not worth arguing with .. you have become just troll bait at this point it seems.

ike I said, we're taking it from you and since this group has done the hard job of labeling themselves the tin-foil hat nuts, our job is easy.  That's right, we'll lead the sheep...which you and yours are completely incapable of doing.

Although your delusions of grandeur are comical enough to suggest you are actually trying to be funny? Or maybe you are just a nasty piece of work pretending to be all warm, fuzzy and humanity-loving but truly just want to fleece them?

No more free tips for you...best of luck.  You're gonna need it.

That's fine, I've never been tipped in bitcoin and have never begged for any. Thanks, but I don't need your luck I have reason, logic and more than enough BTC ... be careful you don't miss our next great project that will make your bitcoins obsolete in a blink if we so choose  

I think anyone paying attention can clearly see who's been doing the attacking in this thread.  In my view, Libertarianism does not stand for humanity, it stands for self.  It is a selfish ideology that seeks to have all world governments destroyed, all currency and basically anything and everything that thousands of years of humanity has fought and died to create, what we know as civilized society.  Libertarianism is an every man for himself ideology that basically says, only the strong survive.  If you want a piece of land, you can take from someone else if you're strong enough because there are no police, there's no rule of law.  There is just chaos and unrighteousness.  No, i side with the greater good of humanity and libertarianism is not in the good of humanity and like so many ideologies before this one, it too will fall by the waste side because humanity will not accept such "programming" because such is based in selfishness and is contradictory to the human spirit. 

Now that is your right to believe how you believe and ironically it is through the rule of law and the constitution that we all have such rights in America.  Seems like nothing more than a bunch of whiners who take what has been created here for granted and seek to use Bitcoin not to simply to bypass bankers.... (No, that's a front) but to destroy civilized society.  Better men than you have tried and failed my friend and the human spirit of kindness and good will toward one another always wins out.  This is no exception and hardly worth any more chatter.  Please continue the dismissals.  You're the best player on our team.   I'm done...the last word is yours sir.

[virtualmaster]

I think anyone paying attention can clearly see who's been doing the attacking in this thread.  In my view, Libertarianism does not stand for humanity, it stands for self.  It is a selfish ideology that seeks to have all world governments destroyed, all currency and basically anything and everything that thousands of years of humanity has fought and died to create, what we know as civilized society.  Libertarianism is an every man for himself ideology that basically says, only the strong survive.  If you want a piece of land, you can take from someone else if you're strong enough because there are no police, there's no rule of law.  There is just chaos and unrighteousness.  No, i side with the greater good of humanity and libertarianism is not in the good of humanity and like so many ideologies before this one, it too will fall by the waste side because humanity will not accept such "programming" because such is based in selfishness and is contradictory to the human spirit.  

I don't want to defend or attack libertarianism but surely there is such a selfish aspect of it. However libertarianism it doesn't have to do more or less with bitcoin than traditionalism, communism or capitalism. Anybody may use bitcoin.
In a financial point of view I would rather characterize bitcoin as return to the traditional values in a modern form.
When the financial system was based on gold and silver coins the state couldn't inflate it or hyper-inflate it or confiscate your account. With the coming of the fiat the governments can do whatever they want with your money and use it to finance wars to kill millions of people. People became like will-less zombies.
Bitcoin is the modern gold on which people can construct their freedom. Namecoin serves also this purpose in another aspect.
We will become anyway more and more regulated, bitcoin will only give some traditional financial values and freedom for those who need it.
Who want to remain a fiat-zombie it is no problem for me.

Now that is your right to believe how you believe and ironically it is through the rule of law and the constitution that we all have such rights in America.  Seems like nothing more than a bunch of whiners who take what has been created here for granted and seek to use Bitcoin not to simply to bypass bankers.... (No, that's a front) but to destroy civilized society.  Better men than you have tried and failed my friend and the human spirit of kindness and good will toward one another always wins out.  This is no exception and hardly worth any more chatter.  Please continue the dismissals.  You're the best player on our team.   I'm done...the last word is yours sir.

America was built by people who came to search traditional financial values - gold, silver (like now the bitcoin miners) and by those who came to have freedom(like now the bitcoin investors).

[SAQ]

Yeah, the left doesn't like bitcoin as a currency.

They like it as a store of value though, but the currency part overwhelms them so they bash bitcoin.

You're mistaken.  And that kind of knee-jerk snap judgment hurts us all.

Authoritarians don't like bitcoin.  Of the right or of the left.  Liberals/progressives - and those of every other political stripe who dislike what our political and financial systems have done to us - are natural bitcoin boosters.  As currency or store of value, either one.

Otherwise, all I could think of when watching that video was the line from the movie:  "I see dead people..."  And they don't even know they're dead.

I don't think I am mistaken. Authoritarians of course do not like bitcoin, but those that believe in a big government, as the left does, do not like it as a currency either because you need inflation to have a big government.

[Coinseeker]

I think anyone paying attention can clearly see who's been doing the attacking in this thread.  In my view, Libertarianism does not stand for humanity, it stands for self.  It is a selfish ideology that seeks to have all world governments destroyed, all currency and basically anything and everything that thousands of years of humanity has fought and died to create, what we know as civilized society.  Libertarianism is an every man for himself ideology that basically says, only the strong survive.  If you want a piece of land, you can take from someone else if you're strong enough because there are no police, there's no rule of law.  There is just chaos and unrighteousness.  No, i side with the greater good of humanity and libertarianism is not in the good of humanity and like so many ideologies before this one, it too will fall by the waste side because humanity will not accept such "programming" because such is based in selfishness and is contradictory to the human spirit.  

I don't want to defend or attack libertarianism but surely there is such a selfish aspect of it. However libertarianism it doesn't have to do more or less with bitcoin than traditionalism, communism or capitalism. Anybody may use bitcoin.
In a financial point of view I would rather characterize bitcoin as return to the traditional values in a modern form.
When the financial system was based on gold and silver coins the state couldn't inflate it or hyper-inflate it or confiscate your account. With the coming of the fiat the governments can do whatever they want with your money and use it to finance wars to kill millions of people. People became like will-less zombies.
Bitcoin is the modern gold on which people can construct their freedom. Namecoin serves also this purpose in another aspect.
We will become anyway more and more regulated, bitcoin will only give some traditional financial values and freedom for those who need it.
Who want to remain a fiat-zombie it is no problem for me.

Now that is your right to believe how you believe and ironically it is through the rule of law and the constitution that we all have such rights in America.  Seems like nothing more than a bunch of whiners who take what has been created here for granted and seek to use Bitcoin not to simply to bypass bankers.... (No, that's a front) but to destroy civilized society.  Better men than you have tried and failed my friend and the human spirit of kindness and good will toward one another always wins out.  This is no exception and hardly worth any more chatter.  Please continue the dismissals.  You're the best player on our team.   I'm done...the last word is yours sir.

America was built by people who came to search traditional financial values - gold, silver (like now the bitcoin miners) and by those who came to have freedom(like now the bitcoin investors).

"Traditional values"?  That's purely subjective.  What one thinks is a traditional value, another believes is tyranny.  America was also built by people who were stolen and forced into slavery to do the actual work.  So let's not forget, there are many aspects to what have caused America to be.  I would also ask, what traditional value states that if you "discover" another persons backyard, you can claim it for your own, if you are strong enough to over power them?  Remember the Natives?  The closest thing i can think of is libertarianism.  No government, no rule of law, no police.  Just the strong will survive.  If I like your house, I can take it from you.  That's not an America I want any part of and judging by Ron Paul's recent "presidential bid", doesn't look like 98%+ of Americans are looking to support such selfishness or ignorance either.  

Now you have a couple of fair points and your obvious right to them.   This all started by simply stating that if you want to win the argument, try acting like mature, rational and intelligent adults.  If your truths are indeed truths, it shouldn't be that difficult.  How that was or is even remotely controversial shows that we're not dealing with rational people here, we're dealing with ideological nuts and primates (That's my new favorite word) who are a disaster for the Bitcoin brand.  Fortunately since I've last participated in this thread, I've met and seen some people that have given me hope again in Bitcoin.  They too don't care anything about ideology as it relates to Bitcoin and I thank those that stand up to such nonsense, all to protect something we too believe in.  

Lastly, this delusion that somehow Bitcoin supersedes government and governmental intervention, is just naive at best.  The US government will put an end to Bitcoin anytime it so chooses and believing otherwise doesn't make it less true.  Let's sum this up real quick:

1.  US Government forces the US banks to shut down and block any and all transactions affiliated with Bitcoin...and they will comply.  There goes mass adoption.  Boom!
2.  US Government politely   request countries with exchanges to shut them down via the banks...and they will comply.
3.  For those remaining, just the mere mention of economic sanctions will bring any straggler nations into compliance...and they will comply.  Because in the end, they care more about their countries income, than they do about Bitcoin.  

Now I'm not saying this is right or fair.  I'm simply saying, these are the facts.  Bitcoin can always survive in some black market, shady and underground fashion, sure.  A certain amount of corruption is inevitable but the dreams of $500 or $1000 or even $100k Bitcoin's will be dead as a door nail.  So in my view, the beneficial thing to do is to start framing some intelligent arguments to aide in the drafting of the regulations that are coming, whether you like it or not.  Because all this, "you're an idiot, you're just sheep", etc, etc, is only going to get Bitcoin blackballed and the door will be opened for something else to take it's place.

[sukiho]

using the American definition of socialism I think we can say that progressive taxation is socialism, and that being the case Im happy to be called a socialist even tho I dont agree with anything said in that video

[Coinseeker]

After todays events with Dwolla, the Dept. of Homeland Security and the continuing crash of the price of BTC....let's quickly revisit the "prophesy" from....oh yes...yesterday.

 
Lastly, this delusion that somehow Bitcoin supersedes government and governmental intervention, is just naive at best.  The US government will put an end to Bitcoin anytime it so chooses and believing otherwise doesn't make it less true.  Let's sum this up real quick:

1.  US Government forces the US banks to shut down and block any and all transactions affiliated with Bitcoin...and they will comply.  There goes mass adoption.  Boom!
2.  US Government politely   request countries with exchanges to shut them down via the banks...and they will comply.
3.  For those remaining, just the mere mention of economic sanctions will bring any straggler nations into compliance...and they will comply.  Because in the end, they care more about their countries income, than they do about Bitcoin.  

Now I'm not saying this is right or fair.  I'm simply saying, these are the facts...  

 

Any other arguments or doubts?  

[marcus_of_augustus]

Oh gosh, govt has bought an end to bitcoin?

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

http://blockchain.info/

We should all just pack up and go back to our socialist paradises now and be thankful for crumbs from the bankster masters tables.

[Traktion]

I see why attacks go unchallenged, why dismissal (fixed spelling here for you) and name calling is the extent of the arguments,

Maybe it's the messenger and not the message.  Just a thought.  

Kind of ironic seeing as you began the personal slurs and name calling in this thread ... that's pretty much when I decided you really are not worth arguing with .. you have become just troll bait at this point it seems.

ike I said, we're taking it from you and since this group has done the hard job of labeling themselves the tin-foil hat nuts, our job is easy.  That's right, we'll lead the sheep...which you and yours are completely incapable of doing.

Although your delusions of grandeur are comical enough to suggest you are actually trying to be funny? Or maybe you are just a nasty piece of work pretending to be all warm, fuzzy and humanity-loving but truly just want to fleece them?

No more free tips for you...best of luck.  You're gonna need it.

That's fine, I've never been tipped in bitcoin and have never begged for any. Thanks, but I don't need your luck I have reason, logic and more than enough BTC ... be careful you don't miss our next great project that will make your bitcoins obsolete in a blink if we so choose  

I think anyone paying attention can clearly see who's been doing the attacking in this thread.  In my view, Libertarianism does not stand for humanity, it stands for self.  It is a selfish ideology that seeks to have all world governments destroyed, all currency and basically anything and everything that thousands of years of humanity has fought and died to create, what we know as civilized society.  Libertarianism is an every man for himself ideology that basically says, only the strong survive.  If you want a piece of land, you can take from someone else if you're strong enough because there are no police, there's no rule of law.  There is just chaos and unrighteousness.  No, i side with the greater good of humanity and libertarianism is not in the good of humanity and like so many ideologies before this one, it too will fall by the waste side because humanity will not accept such "programming" because such is based in selfishness and is contradictory to the human spirit. 

Now that is your right to believe how you believe and ironically it is through the rule of law and the constitution that we all have such rights in America.  Seems like nothing more than a bunch of whiners who take what has been created here for granted and seek to use Bitcoin not to simply to bypass bankers.... (No, that's a front) but to destroy civilized society.  Better men than you have tried and failed my friend and the human spirit of kindness and good will toward one another always wins out.  This is no exception and hardly worth any more chatter.  Please continue the dismissals.  You're the best player on our team.   I'm done...the last word is yours sir.

If you think that using threats/violence to take stuff is 'civilized society', then I would suggest you take some time out to reconsider that position.

Additionally, society doesn't come from the barrel of a gun. Society is what forms voluntarily, in the absence of coercion. Statism is anti-society, not anarchism.

To suggest that people would do as they please (no laws, no police etc) is to misunderstand humanity too. These mechanisms/organisations evolved due to people wanting them. People policed their own streets, based on their own basic laws (no theft, murder, rape etc). That the state co-opted these movements doesn't mean that there wasn't a desire, nor a solution, to solve these problems without the state.

If humanity is to move forward, it needs to embrace voluntary association. Using threats to treat people like slaves, thus disregarding the ownership of themselves and their property, is not civilized. It's an anachronism from a bygone age that we're still having to put up with.

[sukiho]

Additionally, society doesn't come from the barrel of a gun. Society is what forms voluntarily, in the absence of coercion. Statism is anti-society, not anarchism.

To suggest that people would do as they please (no laws, no police etc) is to misunderstand humanity too. These mechanisms/organisations evolved due to people wanting them. People policed their own streets, based on their own basic laws (no theft, murder, rape etc). That the state co-opted these movements doesn't mean that there wasn't a desire, nor a solution, to solve these problems without the state.

If humanity is to move forward, it needs to embrace voluntary association. Using threats to treat people like slaves, thus disregarding the ownership of themselves and their property, is not civilized. It's an anachronism from a bygone age that we're still having to put up with.

meet the new boss, same as the old boss