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Author Topic: The Feds Are Terrified Of Cryptocurrencies... But They're Powerless To Stop Them  (Read 1383 times)
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August 05, 2017, 08:58:19 AM
 #41

The feds just visited the dash developers recently but the y refused to talk to them claiming they had no more information than any user did.
I heard they are going to try and make vpn's illegal in russia. They also say there going to try and make tor illegal in the usa.

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August 05, 2017, 09:28:04 AM
 #42

The federal government is no match for innovation. This is something lawmakers have always known, and it is the reason state and federal regulations exist. But innovation, by its very nature, will always find a way around those regulations, resulting in the implementation of more regulations for creative minds to learn to evade — which they will. This results in the over-regulation we see in America today.

Nothing scares the government more than something it can’t control, and the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) revealed this week that it is terrified of cryptocurrencies — as well it should be. See, all those lawmakers and bureaucrats sitting around regulating everything depend on taxpayer money to pay their salaries so they can keep writing regulations. Since cryptocurrencies allow people to keep all of their money, this is a big problem for the lawmakers. Soon, people may even start to realize they can buy, sell, and trade freely without any government intervention. The horror.

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Why would they be afraid? They have the legal power and technology to prevent anyone from using Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency for the matter. They shouldn't be afraid of crypto currencies, the American government has already embraced them and legalized them for use in America. Instead of being afraid of Bitcoin, they should be working on how to use the blockchain to catch criminals who use Bitcoin, for example:

Say they have information on a transaction that is exactly 2.5 Bitcoin. They should look at the blockchain for any amount of transactions that add up to that number, and then they would have caught a criminal.


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August 05, 2017, 09:30:18 AM
 #43

The feds just visited the dash developers recently but the y refused to talk to them claiming they had no more information than any user did.
I heard they are going to try and make vpn's illegal in russia. They also say there going to try and make tor illegal in the usa.

Yea, I heard that too (Russia part) but VPN-s are rooted deeply into businesses all around the world, and many of them big, powerful companies, so I'm not so sure a bank or retailer that has thousand of VPN connections to remote offices will be pleased about that. Evem state owned companes use VPN-s a lot, it's so common now days that it would be tectonic shift if it was baned.
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August 05, 2017, 09:37:24 AM
 #44

Why would they be afraid? They have the legal power and technology to prevent anyone from using Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency for the matter.

Other than turning off the internet they really don't. They do however have absolute control over the fiat aspect of things and that's more than enough to keep a lid on it if they really wanted to. There'll always be people who route around that, but the majority they want to turn away from it would do so.

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August 05, 2017, 09:44:08 AM
 #45

The feds just visited the dash developers recently but the y refused to talk to them claiming they had no more information than any user did.
I heard they are going to try and make vpn's illegal in russia. They also say there going to try and make tor illegal in the usa

The law was signed by Putin a few days ago

But as it always happens in such cases, people haven't been told the whole truth about the matter. And the half truths are sometimes (in fact, oftentimes if not always) worse than outright lies. In this case specifically, VPN's haven't been outright banned in Russia, that's bullshit. The law basically requires the providers of such services (VPN's, proxies, anonymizers, etc) to block access to banned resources. And it is only after they decline or refuse to block the access to such resources they are to be banned as well



That is, individual providers only, not all such services in their entirety

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August 08, 2017, 08:34:50 PM
 #46

But that distinction can in fact make a tremendous difference

In other words, it may be quite feasible and doable to disrupt the PoW network provided enough resources are put into mining, and you are sort of guaranteed to succeed at bringing the network down. At the same time, the mission of accumulating enough coins in the PoS model may be virtually impossible since as soon as you start buying up, the price is set to spike exponentially. And whatever the price might be, you still might not be able to make it simply because some holders won't sell at any price. And then you are stuck

But again, this operates on the notion that the only way to disrupt a PoS system is to seize control of it, rather than disrupting it's ability to propagate a network by attacking or taking offline the computers that make it up, does it not? Even under PoW, you don't have to seize control of it to render it unusable, you just have to destabilize it to the point that blocks can be corrupted.  (I say "just" knowing this would be a technical feat.) But I would think that you could hamper the system the same way by disrupting the network activity in PoS. Theoretically, what happens if a wallet with 51% of a PoS coinbase is not connected to the network? I would think they don't get to solve any blocks, otherwise the network would grind to a halt. If 51% of the coinbase in PoS is not connected to the network, doesn't that degrade network security the same way as taking out a large portion of the mining power making up PoW? My guess would be yes, but I don't know, which is why I'm asking.

Strictly speaking, I don't know

Since there are many varieties of the PoS model out there, and some of them can surely address that point in a coherent way. Personally, I'm inclined to think that if 51% of all nodes just plug off from the network without doing anything nasty behind the scenes, nothing particularly dangerous is going to happen. Regarding your other point (that of crushing part of the network), indeed if you shut down the whole Internet (or some part thereof) or just divide it into independent segments, this won't bode well for any coin, but this is certainly beyond the scope of issues addressed by these models. It is like saying that you could severely damage a coin by starting an all-out nuclear holocaust but this certainly won't be a blow aimed against this coin specifically (which is sort of assumed)

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August 09, 2017, 09:14:10 PM
 #47

I think they are not really afraid. They have the legal power and I know that they can do what they want. Bitcoin is a big money and I am sure that they are just waiting for the right time to attack. We should all be ready for any situations.

The SEC has acted quite slowly in response to crypto. They are not looking for the right time to "attack" or do any such nonsense. They are on the record (and their actions reinforce this) that they are taking a deliberate and measured approach to cryptocurrency so as not to needlessly squash innovation with regulatory overreach. They're in a tough position though, as their mandate is to protect individual investors and devise rules to enforce existing securities laws, so they (rightly) are continuing to study developments in this space.


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August 09, 2017, 09:22:23 PM
 #48

But that distinction can in fact make a tremendous difference

In other words, it may be quite feasible and doable to disrupt the PoW network provided enough resources are put into mining, and you are sort of guaranteed to succeed at bringing the network down. At the same time, the mission of accumulating enough coins in the PoS model may be virtually impossible since as soon as you start buying up, the price is set to spike exponentially. And whatever the price might be, you still might not be able to make it simply because some holders won't sell at any price. And then you are stuck

But again, this operates on the notion that the only way to disrupt a PoS system is to seize control of it, rather than disrupting it's ability to propagate a network by attacking or taking offline the computers that make it up, does it not? Even under PoW, you don't have to seize control of it to render it unusable, you just have to destabilize it to the point that blocks can be corrupted.  (I say "just" knowing this would be a technical feat.) But I would think that you could hamper the system the same way by disrupting the network activity in PoS. Theoretically, what happens if a wallet with 51% of a PoS coinbase is not connected to the network? I would think they don't get to solve any blocks, otherwise the network would grind to a halt. If 51% of the coinbase in PoS is not connected to the network, doesn't that degrade network security the same way as taking out a large portion of the mining power making up PoW? My guess would be yes, but I don't know, which is why I'm asking.

Strictly speaking, I don't know

Since there are many varieties of the PoS model out there, and some of them can surely address that point in a coherent way. Personally, I'm inclined to think that if 51% of all nodes just plug off from the network without doing anything nasty behind the scenes, nothing particularly dangerous is going to happen. Regarding your other point (that of crushing part of the network), indeed if you shut down the whole Internet (or some part thereof) or just divide it into independent segments, this won't bode well for any coin, but this is certainly beyond the scope of issues addressed by these models. It is like saying that you could severely damage a coin by starting an all-out nuclear holocaust but this certainly won't be a blow aimed against this coin specifically (which is sort of assumed)

Do you own any PoS personally? I dabbled in Clams for awhile but found I didn't particularly like it as a currency. The fast blocks are a nice thing to have, but the inflation rate I didn't find particularly beneficial. Although I suppose that over time, the inflation rate becomes more and more insignificant as a proportion of the overall coinbase, but that also requires a more robust use-case than Clam had at the time I stopped following it. Perhaps it's still the case, but at the time its main utility was as a gambling token for Just-Dice.


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August 09, 2017, 09:56:15 PM
 #49

Even though government by default always want to be in control if everything to the point of what we are thinking, I am not sure they are terrified about bitcoin because over here, its what you know and understands that can terrify you bhf it seems the enforcement agencies to know or what to talk about bitcoin which therefore .sans, how will they be scared of what they don't know?

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August 10, 2017, 08:43:10 AM
 #50

But that distinction can in fact make a tremendous difference

In other words, it may be quite feasible and doable to disrupt the PoW network provided enough resources are put into mining, and you are sort of guaranteed to succeed at bringing the network down. At the same time, the mission of accumulating enough coins in the PoS model may be virtually impossible since as soon as you start buying up, the price is set to spike exponentially. And whatever the price might be, you still might not be able to make it simply because some holders won't sell at any price. And then you are stuck

But again, this operates on the notion that the only way to disrupt a PoS system is to seize control of it, rather than disrupting it's ability to propagate a network by attacking or taking offline the computers that make it up, does it not? Even under PoW, you don't have to seize control of it to render it unusable, you just have to destabilize it to the point that blocks can be corrupted.  (I say "just" knowing this would be a technical feat.) But I would think that you could hamper the system the same way by disrupting the network activity in PoS. Theoretically, what happens if a wallet with 51% of a PoS coinbase is not connected to the network? I would think they don't get to solve any blocks, otherwise the network would grind to a halt. If 51% of the coinbase in PoS is not connected to the network, doesn't that degrade network security the same way as taking out a large portion of the mining power making up PoW? My guess would be yes, but I don't know, which is why I'm asking.

Strictly speaking, I don't know

Since there are many varieties of the PoS model out there, and some of them can surely address that point in a coherent way. Personally, I'm inclined to think that if 51% of all nodes just plug off from the network without doing anything nasty behind the scenes, nothing particularly dangerous is going to happen. Regarding your other point (that of crushing part of the network), indeed if you shut down the whole Internet (or some part thereof) or just divide it into independent segments, this won't bode well for any coin, but this is certainly beyond the scope of issues addressed by these models. It is like saying that you could severely damage a coin by starting an all-out nuclear holocaust but this certainly won't be a blow aimed against this coin specifically (which is sort of assumed)

Do you own any PoS personally? I dabbled in Clams for awhile but found I didn't particularly like it as a currency. The fast blocks are a nice thing to have, but the inflation rate I didn't find particularly beneficial. Although I suppose that over time, the inflation rate becomes more and more insignificant as a proportion of the overall coinbase, but that also requires a more robust use-case than Clam had at the time I stopped following it. Perhaps it's still the case, but at the time its main utility was as a gambling token for Just-Dice.

No, I don't have any PoS coins

But if I'm not mistaken clams were specifically intended as a sort of substitute for bitcoins in gambling since online gambling is prohibited in Canada (Just-Dice and its owner dooglus seem to be from Canada). I don't know how well it worked out since I'm not much into gambling anyway (at least, not after the PrimeDice times). That said, I still hope that Litecoin (which I'm slowly moving my cryptowealth to) will switch to this model eventually

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August 10, 2017, 10:38:33 PM
 #51

But that distinction can in fact make a tremendous difference

In other words, it may be quite feasible and doable to disrupt the PoW network provided enough resources are put into mining, and you are sort of guaranteed to succeed at bringing the network down. At the same time, the mission of accumulating enough coins in the PoS model may be virtually impossible since as soon as you start buying up, the price is set to spike exponentially. And whatever the price might be, you still might not be able to make it simply because some holders won't sell at any price. And then you are stuck

But again, this operates on the notion that the only way to disrupt a PoS system is to seize control of it, rather than disrupting it's ability to propagate a network by attacking or taking offline the computers that make it up, does it not? Even under PoW, you don't have to seize control of it to render it unusable, you just have to destabilize it to the point that blocks can be corrupted.  (I say "just" knowing this would be a technical feat.) But I would think that you could hamper the system the same way by disrupting the network activity in PoS. Theoretically, what happens if a wallet with 51% of a PoS coinbase is not connected to the network? I would think they don't get to solve any blocks, otherwise the network would grind to a halt. If 51% of the coinbase in PoS is not connected to the network, doesn't that degrade network security the same way as taking out a large portion of the mining power making up PoW? My guess would be yes, but I don't know, which is why I'm asking.

Strictly speaking, I don't know

Since there are many varieties of the PoS model out there, and some of them can surely address that point in a coherent way. Personally, I'm inclined to think that if 51% of all nodes just plug off from the network without doing anything nasty behind the scenes, nothing particularly dangerous is going to happen. Regarding your other point (that of crushing part of the network), indeed if you shut down the whole Internet (or some part thereof) or just divide it into independent segments, this won't bode well for any coin, but this is certainly beyond the scope of issues addressed by these models. It is like saying that you could severely damage a coin by starting an all-out nuclear holocaust but this certainly won't be a blow aimed against this coin specifically (which is sort of assumed)

Do you own any PoS personally? I dabbled in Clams for awhile but found I didn't particularly like it as a currency. The fast blocks are a nice thing to have, but the inflation rate I didn't find particularly beneficial. Although I suppose that over time, the inflation rate becomes more and more insignificant as a proportion of the overall coinbase, but that also requires a more robust use-case than Clam had at the time I stopped following it. Perhaps it's still the case, but at the time its main utility was as a gambling token for Just-Dice.

No, I don't have any PoS coins

But if I'm not mistakes clams were specifically intended as a sort of substitute for bitcoins in gambling since online gambling is prohibited in Canada (Just-Dice and its owner dooglus seem to be from Canada). I don't know how well it worked out since I'm not much into gambling anyway (at least, not after the PrimeDice times). That said, I still hope that Litecoin (which I'm slowly moving my cryptowealth to) will switch to this model eventually

Clams pre-seeded everyone who had a btc, doge, or litecoin address as of a certain date I believe with a certain amount of clams. It kind of went nowhere for awhile until it became the official token of JD. I don't know if it was always intended that way or if he just capitalized on a new coin that he liked the distribution method of. Doog is from Canada, but it's unclear to me how he expected Clams to be legal where bitcoin wasn't on his dice site. I claimed all the clams I was entitled to and followed it for awhile. I eventually sold out of it because it's just another alt with no utility outside of JD in my opinion.

Interesting though, why do you want Litecoin to switch to PoS?


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Clement Kaliyar
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August 10, 2017, 10:43:16 PM
 #52

I think they are not really afraid. They have the legal power and I know that they can do what they want. Bitcoin is a big money and I am sure that they are just waiting for the right time to attack. We should all be ready for any situations.
What do you think you will do if the government bans certain digital currencies,i am sure no one will use them because of the fear of going to the prison and getting tortured  Cheesy The amount of money raised for these ICO are a worrying factor for most of the countries as they will find a way to monitor every investor in the future in the name to counter terrorism.  Grin


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hardforkcoin
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August 11, 2017, 03:01:18 AM
 #53

I strongly believe that behind the scenes the government is watching all crypto and implementing the KYC(Know Your Customer) ruler/regulations as much as they can so they can keep track of us easier.

Places like Coinbase and others that make you verify who you are before they allow you to buy into crypto. Those are the places that will be used for the government to take over the crypto world. They will blackmail people I am sure. Probably have Coinbase selling all of everyones data right now to figure out who you are.

deisik
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August 11, 2017, 02:28:13 PM
 #54

No, I don't have any PoS coins

But if I'm not mistaken clams were specifically intended as a sort of substitute for bitcoins in gambling since online gambling is prohibited in Canada (Just-Dice and its owner dooglus seem to be from Canada). I don't know how well it worked out since I'm not much into gambling anyway (at least, not after the PrimeDice times). That said, I still hope that Litecoin (which I'm slowly moving my cryptowealth to) will switch to this model eventually

Clams pre-seeded everyone who had a btc, doge, or litecoin address as of a certain date I believe with a certain amount of clams. It kind of went nowhere for awhile until it became the official token of JD. I don't know if it was always intended that way or if he just capitalized on a new coin that he liked the distribution method of. Doog is from Canada, but it's unclear to me how he expected Clams to be legal where bitcoin wasn't on his dice site. I claimed all the clams I was entitled to and followed it for awhile. I eventually sold out of it because it's just another alt with no utility outside of JD in my opinion.

Interesting though, why do you want Litecoin to switch to PoS?

Well, I thought the answer to this question should be rather straightforward

But you likely already know it yourself. In short, I don't think that Bitcoin can last on like it did before given the controversies between Bitcoin developers and miners (which seem only to aggravate with time passing by). It should be pretty evident as well that these misfortunes are a logical and inevitable outcome of the PoW model where economic interests of miners are not quite in line with interests of Bitcoin users (i.e. those who make up the so called economic majority). This is different with the PoS model, so I basically don't want Litecoin to finish like Bitcoin is likely going to end up (i.e. dying destitute under the bridge abandoned by virtually everyone)

Lieldoryn
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August 11, 2017, 02:37:48 PM
 #55

I think they are not really afraid. They have the legal power and I know that they can do what they want. Bitcoin is a big money and I am sure that they are just waiting for the right time to attack. We should all be ready for any situations.
What do you think you will do if the government bans certain digital currencies,i am sure no one will use them because of the fear of going to the prison and getting tortured  Cheesy The amount of money raised for these ICO are a worrying factor for most of the countries as they will find a way to monitor every investor in the future in the name to counter terrorism.  Grin
It will be difficult to do. Governments can influence the exchange of bitcoins for cash, but if you have the exchange of bitcoins for goods in the Internet simply put trade, but in terms of a rights exchange, the government can't do anything.

.

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