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Author Topic: Interest in a P2P Exchange  (Read 5006 times)
charleshoskinson
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May 21, 2013, 07:41:12 PM
 #61

Anyone interested at taking a shot of a summary and recap of what we currently know about P2P exchanges?

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usscfounder
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May 21, 2013, 11:38:36 PM
 #62

I am updating the post daily:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209269.0

I have figured out a way to create a decentralized orderbook with built in security against fraud and ddos.  I will post my design updates daily. Check the post daily.
charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 05:03:40 AM
 #63

ussc this is solid work. Could you PM me your contact info.

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BTCLuke
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May 22, 2013, 09:03:00 AM
 #64

This thread has degraded past repair. Let's step back to the last logical point and pick it up over here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212841.0

Luke Parker
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charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 03:36:52 PM
 #65

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This thread has degraded past repair. Let's step back to the last logical point and pick it up over here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212841.0

Lol, the purpose of the thread was to ask about the community's interest in P2P exchanges. It definitely has worked. That said, fucking nice thread Luke. Seriously its exactly what I was looking for.

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May 22, 2013, 03:42:08 PM
 #66

Anyone interested at taking a shot of a summary and recap of what we currently know about P2P exchanges?

Summary: Retarded idea. There is currently no way to implement a p2p exchange. The problem is there is no way to move fiat.
charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 03:44:32 PM
 #67

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Summary: Retarded idea. There is currently no way to implement a p2p exchange. The problem is there is no way to move fiat.

Thanks for your kind words.

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usscfounder
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May 22, 2013, 03:46:05 PM
 #68

I have created a system for a P2P orderbook here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209269.0

I figured out how to make a P2P Orderbook for a decentralized exchange:

I am updating the post daily but will add more in a few minutes:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209269.0





Decentralized Orderbook - BTA System (Bus - Train - Plane)

BTA - Bus. Train. Plane. BTA is a concept I came up with the solve the problem of a decentralized orderbook for P2P systems.

BTA is a system to move orders from Tier I exchange nodes to Tier II exchange nodes to Tier III exchange nodes according to a predetermined cycle.

BTA is a system akin to a mass-transit public transportation system.

example:
In a mass transit system you could have a bus that would route and cycle through a city with 25 bus stops, stopping at every stop to pick up people. The bus would then drop all of the people off at the last stop which for the purposes of this demonstration is the city's train station. The bus would then repeat the cycle continuously bringing more and more people to the train station.

Eventually the train would arrive to that city and pick up the people who got off the bus and are waiting at the train station. The train would then continue on and cycle through all of the cities of that particular province/state picking up people (who were dropped off by the bus) at every city train station. At the end of the train route would be an airport with a planes ready to pick people up and take them to a specific destination. The train would cycle continuously through all of the cities picking up people and dropping them off at the airport.

The people who were first on the bus and then on the train and now at the airport would then board the plane (jumbo jet if you will) and travel on the plane from the province/state they were in to a final location all the while making stops in every major province/state of that country to pick up additional people. After the plane arrived at the final location it would take off again and cycle through all the provinces/states of the country continuously picking up and dropping off people.

Now, imagine if you will a dating and match making service on one of the sides of that county that has a big convention to help people find a spouse. That service decides to utilizes the same aforementioned mass transportation system to bring people together from all over the country.

People would leave their homes and go to the bus stop. Some people would find compatible matches for themselves at the bus stop or while riding on the bus. Those people would get off the bus pay the fee and then go home with no need to go to to the convention. Those people have what they want; a spouse.

The rest of the people would continue on to the train station and get on the train. But again some people would find matches on the train and at the station; so, they too would pay the fee and go home. They have what they want; a spouse.

What remains of the people would continue on to the airport then get on the plane to go to the convention hoping to find a good match for a spouse.

A P2P BTA (Bus-Train-Airplane) exchange would operate the same way only picking up orders instead of people.

(More in a few minutes)

 
More here in a few minutes:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209269.0

Here is how it works:

P2P BTA Application

How does it work?

In a P2P BTA system a "Bus" exchange node would cycle through and collect orders from P2P "home-server" nodes mentioned in the above posts.  "Home-server" nodes house user accounts and wallets in a P2P network.

1. The Bus exchange server node would collect orders from home-server nodes 1 through 25 (for example).

2. Matching orders (if any) are fulfilled in a mini exchange. Receipts are generated. All unfulfilled orders and receipts are then stored for pickup by an "Train" exchange node.

3. On a predetermined cycle the higher Train exchange node would pick up all of the unfulfilled orders and receipts from all four (for example) of the Bus exchange nodes in the P2P network. All matching orders are fulfilled in a medium sized exchange and more receipts are generated.  Again, All unfulfilled orders and collected receipts are then stored for pickup by an "Airplane" exchange node.

4. Finally, on a predetermined cycle the higher Airplane exchange node would pick up all of the unfulfilled orders and receipts from all four (for example) of the Train exchange nodes in the P2P network. The Airplane exchange is the highest exchange on our example P2P network. All orders would attempt to be fulfilled here. Collected receipts are used to generate reports and to display fulfilled orders.

In our example P2P network, if no orders were fulfilled by the Bus or Train exchange nodes then the Airplane exchange node would have picked up 400 orders.

(MORE TO COME LATER TODAY)




https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209269.0
Loozik
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May 22, 2013, 04:47:59 PM
 #69

Did you come up with an idea but couldn't get funded?

I am considering funding some new ventures in the Bitcoin community after the Summer and if there is a working P2P exchange on the table, then it would be high on my list. Let's start a discussion.

How much money do you have available for this investment? Seriously, give a rough estimate in USD or BTC



Over the Summer, I'm going to be doing a huge amount of reading and coding for my course:

https://www.udemy.com/bitcoin-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-crypto/

Is there a single threat on this forum you contributed and didn't yet mention these fantastic courses of yours?
charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 05:05:16 PM
 #70

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How much money do you have available for this investment? Seriously, give a rough estimate in USD or BTC

I'd be happy to discuss investments over email or in a PM. Investment would be proportional to return and likely around low 6 figures for the angel phase.

Quote
Is there a single threat on this forum you contributed and didn't yet mention these fantastic courses of yours?

Probably not because the course is community built and forever free. I will continue to solicit feedback, contributions, marketing support and donations for the Bitcoin Education Project until it has reached its goal of educating one million new people on Bitcoin. I can't accomplish that alone and it is in everyone's best interest to bring well-informed people into the ecosystem.

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Loozik
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May 22, 2013, 05:09:52 PM
 #71

I'd be happy to discuss investments over email or in a PM. Investment would be proportional to return and likely around low 6 figures for the angel phase.

Okay, so you have between USD 100,000 and 500,000 available for an investment, correct?
charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 05:15:50 PM
 #72

Yes

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Loozik
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May 22, 2013, 05:21:07 PM
 #73

Yes

Can you please specify the rate of return you expect to get on your investment and over what period of time?
charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 05:28:01 PM
 #74

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Can you please specify the rate of return you expect to get on your investment and over what period of time?

It is incredibly difficult to determine VAR in something related Bitcoin and it is entirely possible to design a P2P exchange without any profit to a central hub. I may assess my ROI based upon the effect having an exchange like the one BTCLuke described would have on the value of my current bitcoin holdings. For example, this exchange would functionally remove most of the liquidity issues resulting in actors like Amazon and Paypal likely entering the market. Such an increase in demand could drive the price per BTC up at least an order of magnitude.

As the initial investment is measured based upon its effect on the price of bitcoin, my investment would be proportional to my holdings of btc.

To answer your question, I would view an investment of this nature as a gamble. I would be entirely ok with losing everything for a chance at seeing this work. Thus I may consider an X-Prize style investment with a set of criterion and the first person to satisfy them would receive the prize. 

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Loozik
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May 22, 2013, 07:04:16 PM
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Can you please specify the rate of return you expect to get on your investment and over what period of time?

It is incredibly difficult to determine VAR in something related Bitcoin and it is entirely possible to design a P2P exchange without any profit to a central hub. I may assess my ROI based upon the effect having an exchange like the one BTCLuke described would have on the value of my current bitcoin holdings. For example, this exchange would functionally remove most of the liquidity issues resulting in actors like Amazon and Paypal likely entering the market. Such an increase in demand could drive the price per BTC up at least an order of magnitude.

As the initial investment is measured based upon its effect on the price of bitcoin, my investment would be proportional to my holdings of btc.

To answer your question, I would view an investment of this nature as a gamble. I would be entirely ok with losing everything for a chance at seeing this work. Thus I may consider an X-Prize style investment with a set of criterion and the first person to satisfy them would receive the prize. 

Come on. This is a non-answer.

Tell me point blank the region of IRR you want. If you do not like IRR you can use other method you will calculate your expected return. You mentioned ''return'' as one of the components of your investment scheme. I simply want to know what return and over what period of time you expect. This isn't a difficult task, is it?
charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 07:06:25 PM
 #76

For a venture of this nature, I'd like an ROI around 200-300 percent of capital at risk over a 24 month period.

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Loozik
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May 22, 2013, 07:14:45 PM
 #77

For a venture of this nature, I'd like an ROI around 200-300 percent of capital at risk over a 24 month period.

Now, we are getting somewhere. How do you calculate your ROI? There are tens of different formulas for ROI over the internet. I would like to know the formula you will be applying.
charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 07:42:02 PM
 #78

Lol, there really isn't one because I'm basing my ROI on the impact a P2P exchange would have on the price and stability of bitcoin. It wouldn't be possible to measure this outside of saying it has a significant impact.

Let's change the question to asking what factors would it take for the value of bitcoin in USD to increase an order of magnitude? First, I believe bringing several millions of people into the ecosystem would be a significant factor. Second, large business adoption would also contribute to this increase. Finally, stable exchanges that are beyond the scope of regulation and capable of scaling to any amount of transactions.

I firmly believe that if these three factors are properly implemented Bitcoin's value will be over 1,000 USD per coin. I have fairly sizeable holdings in BTC thus I have an incentive to see them through. Hence I launched the Bitcoin Education Project to bring millions into the ecosystem. I've been discussing with many people in the community how to bring large corporations into the Bitcoin ecosystem. And the last piece is the P2P exchange. I'll guess each have an equal part and thus are worth 1/3 of the order of magnitude price increase.   

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Loozik
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May 22, 2013, 08:01:42 PM
 #79

Come on, just give me the formula you will calculate ROI.

People who are interested to get your money want to know your investment criteria in a an easy calculable form, to see if they can meet these criteria.
charleshoskinson
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May 22, 2013, 08:09:29 PM
 #80

The formula I'm using is based upon my current holdings in bitcoin. If I was to divulge it, then I'd be instantly telling everyone the approximate size of my holdings in bitcoin as soon as I make an investment and state my expected return.

If I invest in someone's project, then it will be in the form of a grant without any equity or return expectation. My returns come directly from the appreciation of bitcoin. Sorry mate.   

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