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Author Topic: Trump: The United States could soon become a large-scale Spain or Greece  (Read 3513 times)
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May 15, 2013, 05:51:03 PM
 #21

I watched first 3 minutes.  His credibility falls away when he says "Is america in a depression but nobody is talking about it?"  If America were in a depression, you would be swamped with talk about it.  

If you think there is something worthwhile later on, rustle up a transcript - I don't mind fact checking.

hmm, no transcript but i'll paraphrase - how bout that?

starting at 14:20 he goes into the price of gold for the past 10 years. but it's rise isn't because all of a sudden gold is more valuable, but rather the dollar has decreased (40%).. then goes into quantitave easing, how that's impacted the currency when they started printing.

then ends up by looking at the dow jones if today was pitted against a gold standard, and concludes that with an 80% decrease, compared to the 86% decline of 1930, the USD could arguably be in a depression.. but nobody knows it because we think the markets are healthy.

the beginning is all about the fed and all their intervening strategies to help jumpstart the economy.. talks about the debt bubble.



The price of gold has fallen 25% in last few years without the dollar rising so the first argument falls flat on its face.

The Dow has increased in real terms since 1930 so the second question doesn't make sense.

Depressions tend to ruin whole areas and cause migration.  Think of Oklahoma in 1930s or Spain today.  If we were in a depression, we would all know about it and markets would not be considered "healthy."

Lastly, there is no debt bubble.  

The guy may have technical analysis skills that help with forex trading but knows sod all about the business world.


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May 15, 2013, 07:03:55 PM
 #22

A lot of people hate that inflation is low and that there is no debt crisis.  In fact, a lot of people hate that the state/financial system is in such robust health and will scratch around anywhere to find evidence that the whole shebang is about to collapse.  shadowstats is merely meeting an unmet market need.


Agreed. I'm sure its quite lucrative for him.

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May 15, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
 #23

Being a Spaniard that travels a lot, I must admit things are going bad in Spain... But no so bad... Spain 2013 has nothing to do with USA 1930.

Even with almost 30% unemployment rate people keep on living... Thanks to a parallel economy not under the control of the government. B-money or "dinero negro" is how people try to survive in Spain: Euros not under the radar of ECB and Taxes Ministry.

So I guess Spain can be an experiment of how people can survive with a "different" currency and payment methods... I guess people in this forum knows a lot about new "parallel economies".
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May 15, 2013, 07:39:08 PM
 #24

The black market to the rescue. Grin

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May 15, 2013, 10:11:34 PM
 #25

The official CPI and unemployment numbers are totally rigged, meant to mislead.
http://www.shadowstats.com/

What makes the analysis of a guy selling a $175 a year newsletter more credible than any other source of economic statistics?

A lot of people hate that inflation is low and that there is no debt crisis.  In fact, a lot of people hate that the state/financial system is in such robust health and will scratch around anywhere to find evidence that the whole shebang is about to collapse.  shadowstats is merely meeting an unmet market need.


LOL my bad, the economy is doing great. Just a few more years of hyperbolic debt growth to make the system solvent. Nice system.
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May 15, 2013, 10:14:19 PM
 #26

...snip...

LOL my bad, the economy is doing great. Just a few more years of hyperbolic debt growth to make the system solvent. Nice system.

That's capitalism for you - it may not be pretty but it chugs along.


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May 15, 2013, 10:24:17 PM
 #27

LOL my bad, the economy is doing great. Just a few more years of hyperbolic debt growth to make the system solvent. Nice system.
That's capitalism for you - it may not be pretty but it chugs along.
Calling the US system "Capitalism" is like calling this a "live birth":


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May 15, 2013, 10:27:09 PM
 #28

LOL my bad, the economy is doing great. Just a few more years of hyperbolic debt growth to make the system solvent. Nice system.
That's capitalism for you - it may not be pretty but it chugs along.
Calling the US system "Capitalism" is like calling this a "live birth":



LMAO
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May 16, 2013, 06:33:12 AM
 #29

LOL my bad, the economy is doing great. Just a few more years of hyperbolic debt growth to make the system solvent. Nice system.
That's capitalism for you - it may not be pretty but it chugs along.
Calling the US system "Capitalism" is like calling this a "live birth":



The same film can be made for most any activity.  Our system is capitalist - if you don't like it, then capitalism isn't for you.  Saying that there is some kind of angelic capitalism out there which no-one has ever tried is escapism.


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May 16, 2013, 06:35:05 AM
 #30

The same film can be made for most any activity.  Our system is capitalist - if you don't like it, then capitalism isn't for you.  Saying that there is some kind of angelic capitalism out there which no-one has ever tried is escapism.
No, this is no longer capitalism. Capitalism requires a free market. The market is anything but free.

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May 16, 2013, 06:43:35 AM
 #31

The same film can be made for most any activity.  Our system is capitalist - if you don't like it, then capitalism isn't for you.  Saying that there is some kind of angelic capitalism out there which no-one has ever tried is escapism.
No, this is no longer capitalism. Capitalism requires a free market. The market is anything but free.

Right.  The United States started of Capitalistic, but now the legal system entrenches large corporations and prevents small business from providing competition.

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May 16, 2013, 10:03:37 AM
 #32

The same film can be made for most any activity.  Our system is capitalist - if you don't like it, then capitalism isn't for you.  Saying that there is some kind of angelic capitalism out there which no-one has ever tried is escapism.
No, this is no longer capitalism. Capitalism requires a free market. The market is anything but free.

Right.  The United States started of Capitalistic, but now the legal system entrenches large corporations and prevents small business from providing competition.

I agree - each country has problems and inconsistencies.  But that is an implementation flaw which affects any human endeavour.  The underlying idea of capitalism is still the basis of the global economy.

Why am I having to even defend this on a libertarian forum?  


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agentbluescreen
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May 16, 2013, 12:07:23 PM
 #33

That story has been pushed for months by Newsmax, which is basically a conservative propaganda machine. Its not journalism, its an agenda being masqueraded as journalism.

Really, Im down on the US Dollar, the Fed, Treasury, etc, but the USD is FAR better off than almost every other currency. The problem with our economy comes down to jobs and the fact that most of the money being made is going to fewer and fewer people.  Minimum wage (~$8/hour) isnt a working wage, it isnt sustainable. Its one step above slave labor and indentured servitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

At a certain point, The People will revolt. Thats the real threat. Bitcoin is part of this threat.

Give this person a fine Cuban cigar wrapped on the thighs of young virgins!

When one adopts all of the identical and self-same, secret and corrupt tools of a corrupted and established-fascist tyranny under the guise of "fighting it" one has already lost the war before it's first battle. After Truman's surrender to Churchill at Potsdam, then Senator LBJ with his re-introduced NDA (DRO '48) capitulated America to London, plunged America into Trotskyite Pentagon-communist tyranny and guaranteed the West's certain, eventual Cold War defeat.

All "government" is "socialism" the two words mean the same thing. The bigger one is, the bigger is the other. The former economy of the former "USA" (once-Republic of Liberty) will not die like that of it's Spanish or Grecian client states, because it has become subsumed to a far greater global imperial-fascist (Tory-Menshevik City of London) bankstering tyranny.

Nobody "won" the Cold War, the East simply acknowledged the insanely demented fanatical futility of it all, first.

The (Tory-Trotskyite) Union of ZioNazi Socialist Republics (UZSR) is now doomed to collapse exactly like it's imperial-fascist twin, the former USSR did. The same way the Tory-Fascist "empires" of England, Rome and Egypt did, when a corrupt elite high-preisthood of a single, totalitarian, established, soullessly-bestial corporate-socialist religionism pervert it's power, sap the strength of all it's people and destroy competitivity in their envious, greedy and violent pursuit of some pie-in-the-sky theocratic dogmatism, based upon "special rights" that they foolishly believe that they alone are "worthy" of .

Communism is simply the modern term for "permanent war". It matters not whether a Tory Caesaropapist-fascist Menshevik pledges his idolatry to a tribal mafia warlord, a Pope, a Mohammed, an ex-prince named thut-Moses, a Marx, a Bolshevik named Lenin, a tin-pot N Korean fascist or the Chairman of a private boardroom-socialist Federal Reserve Printing Company.

 There can be no such thing as a "faith" without the FREEDOM to choose, or not to choose one!

This "Final Battle" is not about the nature of the "money" that represents all of the good fruits of all of our constructive human labours, it's about just who "owns" it, and by extension, them.

It's about the corrupt crimes, frauds, debts and hatreds that represent the vile, all destructive perversion and all repulsive enslavement of us all by those all-divisive fanatics who claim to own us, through their instrumentations of it.


(A congress shall attempt to make no "law" establishing any brand of any sort of a single or combined flavour of totalitarian religious-monopolism)

For eons Gold Pharaohs enslaved us and our nations through their monopoly. Free us all from them forevermore with:
Bitcoin, the Goldslayer! - Welcome to the digitally portable, untraceable, perfectly lawful "BTC securitized OTC Credit Swap derivative" money that is OURS, ALONE! So you got your TARP, eh? Guess what?
myrkul
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May 16, 2013, 02:36:40 PM
 #34

The same film can be made for most any activity.  Our system is capitalist - if you don't like it, then capitalism isn't for you.  Saying that there is some kind of angelic capitalism out there which no-one has ever tried is escapism.
No, this is no longer capitalism. Capitalism requires a free market. The market is anything but free.

Right.  The United States started of Capitalistic, but now the legal system entrenches large corporations and prevents small business from providing competition.

I agree - each country has problems and inconsistencies.  But that is an implementation flaw which affects any human endeavour.  The underlying idea of capitalism is still the basis of the global economy.

Why am I having to even defend this on a libertarian forum?  
Maybe because you're wrong?

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townf
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May 16, 2013, 03:25:09 PM
 #35


When one adopts all of the identical and self-same, secret and corrupt tools of a corrupted and established-fascist tyranny under the guise of "fighting it" one has already lost the war before it's first battle. After Truman's surrender to Churchill at Potsdam, then Senator LBJ with his re-introduced NDA (DRO '48) capitulated America to London, plunged America into Trotskyite Pentagon-communist tyranny and guaranteed the West's certain, eventual Cold War defeat.

All "government" is "socialism" the two words mean the same thing. The bigger one is, the bigger is the other. The former economy of the former "USA" (once-Republic of Liberty) will not die like that of it's Spanish or Grecian client states, because it has become subsumed to a far greater global imperial-fascist (Tory-Menshevik City of London) bankstering tyranny.

Nobody "won" the Cold War, the East simply acknowledged the insanely demented fanatical futility of it all, first.

The (Tory-Trotskyite) Union of ZioNazi Socialist Republics (UZSR) is now doomed to collapse exactly like it's imperial-fascist twin, the former USSR did. The same way the Tory-Fascist "empires" of England, Rome and Egypt did, when a corrupt elite high-preisthood of a single, totalitarian, established, soullessly-bestial corporate-socialist religionism pervert it's power, sap the strength of all it's people and destroy competitivity in their envious, greedy and violent pursuit of some pie-in-the-sky theocratic dogmatism, based upon "special rights" that they foolishly believe that they alone are "worthy" of .

Communism is simply the modern term for "permanent war". It matters not whether a Tory Caesaropapist-fascist Menshevik pledges his idolatry to a tribal mafia warlord, a Pope, a Mohammed, an ex-prince named thut-Moses, a Marx, a Bolshevik named Lenin, a tin-pot N Korean fascist or the Chairman of a private boardroom-socialist Federal Reserve Printing Company.

 There can be no such thing as a "faith" without the FREEDOM to choose, or not to choose one!

This "Final Battle" is not about the nature of the "money" that represents all of the good fruits of all of our constructive human labours, it's about just who "owns" it, and by extension, them.

It's about the corrupt crimes, frauds, debts and hatreds that represent the vile, all destructive perversion and all repulsive enslavement of us all by those all-divisive fanatics who claim to own us, through their instrumentations of it.


(A congress shall attempt to make no "law" establishing any brand of any sort of a single or combined flavour of totalitarian religious-monopolism)

If these terms and definitions and general take on reality were adopted and used by bulk of the media and the education system, we could get somewhere in a hurry.

Unfortunately the gulf to get there from here might be just a touch too wide at this particular time, call me a glass half empty guy. People are trying though. I commend you.
hashman
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May 16, 2013, 10:22:36 PM
 #36

I watched first 3 minutes.  His credibility falls away when he says "Is america in a depression but nobody is talking about it?"  If America were in a depression, you would be swamped with talk about it. 

If you think there is something worthwhile later on, rustle up a transcript - I don't mind fact checking.

Thanks for the review Hawker Smiley 
I will skip it.
notme
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May 16, 2013, 11:07:48 PM
 #37

The same film can be made for most any activity.  Our system is capitalist - if you don't like it, then capitalism isn't for you.  Saying that there is some kind of angelic capitalism out there which no-one has ever tried is escapism.
No, this is no longer capitalism. Capitalism requires a free market. The market is anything but free.

Right.  The United States started of Capitalistic, but now the legal system entrenches large corporations and prevents small business from providing competition.

I agree - each country has problems and inconsistencies.  But that is an implementation flaw which affects any human endeavour.  The underlying idea of capitalism is still the basis of the global economy.

Why am I having to even defend this on a libertarian forum?  
Maybe because you're wrong?

Right, the basis of the global economy is cronyism.  Capitalism is a nice fairy tale they use to get us to accept the status quo.

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