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Author Topic: Make sure you pay your taxes to the government that spies on you!  (Read 5281 times)
myrkul
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May 20, 2013, 07:09:35 PM
 #121

You say that my beliefs are a danger to you making me a murderer and robber.
Do you deny that?

The interesting thing is that given the chance to step back from the death threats, you wriggle around looking for a way to change the subject.  Do you think no-one will notice?
Answer the question. Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

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Severian
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May 20, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
 #122

I believe in democracy, a strong state with separation of powers and that if you live in such a state, you can be compelled to pay taxes. 

So if I happen to believe that the government I live under isn't legit and refuse to pay taxes, are you saying that said government has the legitimate power to use violence on me in lieu of being paid?

Is that democracy?


Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:11:36 PM
 #123

You say that my beliefs are a danger to you making me a murderer and robber.
Do you deny that?

The interesting thing is that given the chance to step back from the death threats, you wriggle around looking for a way to change the subject.  Do you think no-one will notice?
Answer the question. Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

You don't have the right to act as judge, jury and executioner.  Whether or not I deny your beliefs does not give you the right to kill me.

Again, look at yourself.  You are making death threats because your argument doesn't persuade.  Its disgusting.

Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:13:16 PM
 #124

I believe in democracy, a strong state with separation of powers and that if you live in such a state, you can be compelled to pay taxes.  

So if I happen to believe that the government I live under isn't legit and refuse to pay taxes, are you saying that said government has the legitimate power to use violence on me in lieu of being paid?

Is that democracy?

If it is a democracy, then it does have the right to collect taxes and that means the right to use violence as a last resort.  

myrkul
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May 20, 2013, 07:14:40 PM
 #125

You say that my beliefs are a danger to you making me a murderer and robber.
Do you deny that?

The interesting thing is that given the chance to step back from the death threats, you wriggle around looking for a way to change the subject.  Do you think no-one will notice?
Answer the question. Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

You don't have the right to act as judge, jury and executioner.  Whether or not I deny your beliefs does not give you the right to kill me.

Again, look at yourself.  You are making death threats because your argument doesn't persuade.  Its disgusting.
The interesting thing is that when given the chance to own up to your actions, and change the evil of your ways, you wriggle around looking for a way to change the subject.  Do you think no-one will notice?
Answer the question. Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

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Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
Severian
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May 20, 2013, 07:15:05 PM
 #126

Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

Myrkul, I have great respect for your opinions but have to agree with hawker here. I can see where your argument is tending and to be honest, it'll take you down the Trotsky Road if you get my drift. Wink
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May 20, 2013, 07:16:07 PM
 #127

If it is a democracy, then it does have the right to collect taxes and that means the right to use violence as a last resort.  

Then its not a government of consent. Non-consent in government is tyranny.

If you believe in tyranny, just say so. Smiley
Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:18:47 PM
 #128

You say that my beliefs are a danger to you making me a murderer and robber.
Do you deny that?

The interesting thing is that given the chance to step back from the death threats, you wriggle around looking for a way to change the subject.  Do you think no-one will notice?
Answer the question. Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

You don't have the right to act as judge, jury and executioner.  Whether or not I deny your beliefs does not give you the right to kill me.

Again, look at yourself.  You are making death threats because your argument doesn't persuade.  Its disgusting.
The interesting thing is that when given the chance to own up to your actions, and change the evil of your ways, you wriggle around looking for a way to change the subject.  Do you think no-one will notice?
Answer the question. Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

I live in an area where if the state failed, we would be subject to sharia law, I would be forced to pay special taxes for not being a muslim and could end up being killed.  So your "no state" argument would be a threat to my life and property if it came to pass.

Does that make you a danger to me?  Yes - anyone who spreads a dangerous idea like allowing local communities to take law into their own hands is a threat to people like me.

Does that entitle me to kill you?  No it doesn't.

And that is where we are different.  I can accept that you disagree - you have to go one step further and add death threats.

Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:20:02 PM
 #129

If it is a democracy, then it does have the right to collect taxes and that means the right to use violence as a last resort.  

Then its not a government of consent. Non-consent in government is tyranny.

If you believe in tyranny, just say so. Smiley

Non-consent in government is not tyranny.  If it was, then every drunk who feels entitled to piss in public is subject to tyranny.

Severian
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May 20, 2013, 07:21:07 PM
 #130

I live in an area where if the state failed, we would be subject to sharia law, I would be forced to pay special taxes for not being a muslim and could end up being killed.

How is that any different from what you advocate - pay taxes or face imprisonment and possible death?
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May 20, 2013, 07:22:00 PM
 #131


Non-consent in government is not tyranny. 

We had a little argument about that on this side of the pond in the late 18th century. Maybe you remember it? Wink
myrkul
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May 20, 2013, 07:22:43 PM
 #132

Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

Myrkul, I have great respect for your opinions but have to agree with hawker here. I can see where your argument is tending and to be honest, it'll take you down the Trotsky Road if you get my drift. Wink
Anyone who knowingly supports tyranny is a sociopath. The kindest thing I can and should do is refuse to associate with them. As I stated before, if they choose to make an issue of it, I'll defend myself.

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Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:24:06 PM
 #133

I live in an area where if the state failed, we would be subject to sharia law, I would be forced to pay special taxes for not being a muslim and could end up being killed.

How is that any different from what you advocate - pay taxes or face imprisonment and possible death?

I do not advocate that myrkul be killed for disagreeing with me.

Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:26:06 PM
 #134


Non-consent in government is not tyranny. 

We had a little argument about that on this side of the pond in the late 18th century. Maybe you remember it? Wink

You had a taxation without representation argument.  You then went on to use your military to crush the Whiskey rebellion which was a tax dispute.  I'm sure you remember that part :-)

Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:27:38 PM
 #135

Do you deny that your beliefs support and uphold the murderers and robbers, making you a danger to me?

Myrkul, I have great respect for your opinions but have to agree with hawker here. I can see where your argument is tending and to be honest, it'll take you down the Trotsky Road if you get my drift. Wink
Anyone who knowingly supports tyranny is a sociopath. The kindest thing I can and should do is refuse to associate with them. As I stated before, if they choose to make an issue of it, I'll defend myself.

You threaten to kill those you disagree with and then call them sociopaths? 

Severian
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May 20, 2013, 07:29:03 PM
 #136


Anyone who knowingly supports tyranny is a sociopath. The kindest thing I can and should do is refuse to associate with them.

That's the point I've reached. Our culture breeds those lovely flavors of narcissism and sociopathy that it makes it more and more difficult to avoid them. There are even family members I no longer speak to because of their incredibly fucked up political beliefs that have compelled them to threaten me with violence because of what I believe.
myrkul
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May 20, 2013, 07:30:40 PM
 #137

I live in an area where if the state failed, we would be subject to sharia law, I would be forced to pay special taxes for not being a muslim and could end up being killed.
How is that any different from what you advocate - pay taxes or face imprisonment and possible death?
I do not advocate that myrkul be killed for disagreeing with me.
Well, it's good to see that you've finally come around and agreed that payment for government services should be voluntary. In that case, I think we can end this conversation, now. You're no longer threatening me.

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Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
Severian
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May 20, 2013, 07:31:01 PM
 #138

I live in an area where if the state failed, we would be subject to sharia law, I would be forced to pay special taxes for not being a muslim and could end up being killed.

How is that any different from what you advocate - pay taxes or face imprisonment and possible death?

I do not advocate that myrkul be killed for disagreeing with me.

This part of the conversation isn't about myrkul.

I asked you what makes the dhimmi tax different from you advocate? They both look the same to me - "pay up or we're gonna work you over."
Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:32:42 PM
 #139

I live in an area where if the state failed, we would be subject to sharia law, I would be forced to pay special taxes for not being a muslim and could end up being killed.
How is that any different from what you advocate - pay taxes or face imprisonment and possible death?
I do not advocate that myrkul be killed for disagreeing with me.
Well, it's good to see that you've finally come around and agreed that payment for government services should be voluntary. I think we can end this conversation, now. You're no longer threatening me.

I never have threatened you.  And I have never said that payment for government services should be voluntary.  If you owe tax, you have to pay it.  

Hawker
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May 20, 2013, 07:35:19 PM
 #140

I live in an area where if the state failed, we would be subject to sharia law, I would be forced to pay special taxes for not being a muslim and could end up being killed.

How is that any different from what you advocate - pay taxes or face imprisonment and possible death?

I do not advocate that myrkul be killed for disagreeing with me.

This part of the conversation isn't about myrkul.

I asked you what makes the dhimmi tax different from you advocate? They both look the same to me - "pay up or we're gonna work you over."

Oh I agree.  There is no such thing as a society without violence so the best we can do is have an institution that has a monopoly on violence and then have the servants of that institution tied up in rules that limit their scope for violence.  That institution is the democratic state.

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