[ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development

[Joe_Bauers]

Well, I think Beave162 and mhps have certainly made their position clear. Anyone else care to weigh in on this?

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[aso118]

Well, I think Beave162 and mhps have certainly made their position clear. Anyone else care to weigh in on this?

I have to agree with Beave - I don't personally think changing the block reward is going to 'fix' anything.  IMOP its going to make it look like YAC favored the early adapters and generate an unnecessary hardfork.  Again, IMOP, the block reward doesn't really matter - what matters is the number of people that value the coin vs the number of people who dump.

My vote is the leave YAC the way it is - a well though-out coin, I don't think it needs to be changed in anyway.

[senj]

In short: If you lower PoW reward , I will be forced to reverse my strategy and sell all of my YAC. And never buy nor mine one again.

But it would make me very happy if these two get into the hard fork:

- Critical patch for chaintrust calculation
- INCREASE of PoW reward after PoS blocks

My position is that those two would eliminate most of selling pressure in the long run

[Thirtybird]

I have to agree with Beave - I don't personally think changing the block reward is going to 'fix' anything.  IMOP its going to make it look like YAC favored the early adapters and generate an unnecessary hardfork.  Again, IMOP, the block reward doesn't really matter - what matters is the number of people that value the coin vs the number of people who dump.

Having watched what happened with Ultracoin who did exactly what is being suggested (lowering the block reward) and watching the price rise - then people who held a bunch dumped at the new inflated price.  This type of change, even with the best intentions, can easily be perceived as a way to let people sell out coins they've been holding.

[mhps]

If everything went EXACTLY how you ASSUME, you would have to agree that this scenario would occur if you CAP POW REWARD TO 25...
The price would go up 4-FOLD! 0.000004 to 0.000016 BTC!!! Marketcap from $60k to $240k!! YAC would be #67 in the rankings as of now. But now YAC will have the same problem as before because if you freaking listened, you would see we would understand it would need the SAME amount of buying pressure (in BTC) as before and the same people who are mining and dumping will continue to be mining and dumping. Understand?

Regardless of how price act inflation pressure will do its slow and steady work to water down the value of exsiting coinbase. Reduced block reward will reduce financial interest of mining and dumping.

100% inflation rate? What are you talking about? Multiple people have tried to explain this basic concept to you, and you obviously don't understand. The amount of YAC is what 27 million? So you are saying that in one year, there will be 54 million YAC? And then in another year there will be 108 million YAC? The supply is going to double every year? That is what 100% inflation means. Can you understand what 50% inflation means? What exactly do you want? Make block reward 0 and the inflation rate could be 5% (it won't though as we know 6.4 million YAC are not being staked at all).

You didn't even read what was written.  Here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg8115111#msg8115111 I calculated that inflation was 118% pa now (then). Here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg8196398#msg8196398 Ii wrote at 100% pa inflation, inflation will go down as coinbase increase but it will take 30 years to reach down to POS rate.

You don't even have YAC in your signature line. You want YAC to be briefly pumped, so you can dump at a slightly higher price? I actually hope that is your motivation as opposed to plain stupidity.

YAC will not be in my long term keep-list until I see the community have a rational  long term approach to YAC development.

[mhps]

I have to agree with Beave - I don't personally think changing the block reward is going to 'fix' anything.  IMOP its going to make it look like YAC favored the early adapters and generate an unnecessary hardfork.  Again, IMOP, the block reward doesn't really matter - what matters is the number of people that value the coin vs the number of people who dump.

Having watched what happened with Ultracoin who did exactly what is being suggested (lowering the block reward) and watching the price rise - then people who held a bunch dumped at the new inflated price.  This type of change, even with the best intentions, can easily be perceived as a way to let people sell out coins they've been holding.

Chances are those people will dump as the price goes up for any reason.  The dumper might kill the first wave of price increase, they will run out of ammo when the next wave comes -- unless they buy back when the price is low, which will create upward pressure for coin owners if the miner-dumpers are not there to sell them a huge amount of cheap coins. Currently a top miner can mine more than 1 million YACs a month, an amount that would have been enough to put off any price run in YAC's history.

For anyone who has doubt in the effect of inflation on prices, here is another piece of evidence: Ultracoin generates 30 coins per minute, and its price stayed at 2000-1000 satoshis in the last two months. YAC currently generate 50 - 60 / min and hovers around 600 satoshis in the period. I think it shows the effect of inflation rate on miner-dumper's coin price when there is no big event in the cryptoworld.

Removing the fuel from the fire is the right thing to do.   If capping at 25 at once is too radical, taking a phased approach is possible, too. The "25" means maximum 50% pa inflation (ahem, against current coinbase, Beave). If YAC gradually reduces the cap to BTC's inflation rate in a few years it would sound good.

[Beave162]

In short: If you lower PoW reward , I will be forced to reverse my strategy and sell all of my YAC. And never buy nor mine one again.

But it would make me very happy if these two get into the hard fork:

- Critical patch for chaintrust calculation
- INCREASE of PoW reward after PoS blocks

My position is that those two would eliminate most of selling pressure in the long run

I will second that. I will sell all of my YAC (more than what mhps has I promise you) if a boneheaded decision like changing block reward gains any traction. I am skittish even now just that this idiotic idea is slightly entertained. The guy calling for it is not even interested in YAC long term. If he buys a bunch (I guarantee you he wouldn't pour much capital even if he had it), then great, you will have an even smaller handful of people holding YAC and very, very little chance someone will want to buy into such manipulation.

mhps, dear god you must stop. Go read a book. Bitcoin inflation rate?  IT IS FREAKING 0 at 21 million bitcoins. You will never, ever, ever comprehend this concept. You are citing current 'inflation'. Stop it. Bitcoin is going through an adoption phase. The altcoins are going through an adoption phase. The longterm inflation rate is the only thing that matters. Everything else is just distribution of coins, adoption, speculation.

If anyone interested in obtaining YAC but have a THEORY that mining and dumping is the main factor keeping the price down, mine YAC and hold it!... less coins will go to anyone mining and dumping, the difficulty will increase, and less coins will be distributed each block. Orrrrr pick an entry point where even at that price mining and dumping won't create enough selling pressure to budge the price lower as YAC is adopted as an actual currency and not ranked 100+ of cryptocurrencies. For example, I could put an order for 1 btc at like 5 satoshis and buy all of the YAC that could be mined and dumped in an entire year! Morons like mhps will still blame, and want to lower, block reward at that point.

[aso118]

I am skittish even now just that this idiotic idea is slightly entertained.

I'm surprised this is still being discussed as well...

Changing the block reward won't have 'any effect' on the market value of the coin.  Four coins worth 100 satoshi or one YAC worth 400, doesn't change the scope, or the market value, or adoption/acceptation of the coin.

However, chaining the block reward 'because the price is low' won't be viewed lightly by others.

[svetliopi44]

Hello, is there some with R9 280x
Can you share a bat file and what speed you have.
How many GB of RAM should have 1 RIG.

[mhps]

The longterm inflation rate is the only thing that matters.

You seriously think YAC will be around in 30 years when the inflation is on par with that of POS? I do miss the APPLE ][ I played with in mid 1980s.

Morons like mhps will still blame, and want to lower, block reward at that point.

Be civil.

[mhps]

However, chaining the block reward 'because the price is low' won't be viewed lightly by others.

How about chaining the block reward 'because the inflation is high' ?

[aso118]

Hello, is there some with R9 280x
Can you share a bat file and what speed you have.
How many GB of RAM should have 1 RIG.

Thirtybird is the GPU guru.  He made a site to help write config files/settings.  I find it very useful.  http://www.ultracoin.net/configgen_raw.html

However, chaining the block reward 'because the price is low' won't be viewed lightly by others.

How about chaining the block reward 'because the inflation is high' ?

YAC is only 15 months only and bitcoin is only 5 years old.  'Inflation' rates are going to be very high for all coins in the beginning. 

What's the difference if there are 21 million bitcoin or 2.1 million bitcoin?  The value will adjust accordingly.

Hardforks are usually create a lot of uncertainly and confusion.  IMOP they are best avoided when possible.

[Beave162]

The longterm inflation rate is the only thing that matters.

You seriously think YAC will be around in 30 years when the inflation is on par with that of POS? I do miss the APPLE ][ I played with in mid 1980s.

So you want POW coin generation rate to equal POS coin generation rate? Is that your new theory you just came up with? And 30 years really? Please educate yourself, become somewhat successful, obtain capital, and then come back, then maybe we can have an intelligent conversation.

And to answer your question if I believe YAC will be around in another 30 years... yes I do. I really do.

[svetliopi44]

Hello, is there some with R9 280x
Can you share a bat file and what speed you have.
How many GB of RAM should have 1 RIG.

Thirtybird is the GPU guru.  He made a site to help write config files/settings.  I find it very useful.  http://www.ultracoin.net/configgen_raw.html

Thank

Thank the man who has made his work for this great work.
Thanks again

[mhps]

The longterm inflation rate is the only thing that matters.

You seriously think YAC will be around in 30 years when the inflation is on par with that of POS? I do miss the APPLE ][ I played with in mid 1980s.

So you want POW coin generation rate to equal POS coin generation rate? Is that your new theory you just came up with? And 30 years really?

Stop making baseless accusation because you don't read or choose to forget. It was you who used POS as a inflation yard stick here, and said in the same post that "If block reward was a constant 100 forever, PoW inflation rate would decrease over time because the ratio gets smaller and smaller as coins in existence increases". As a result I calculated in the follow up post that it will take at least 30 years to do that at current high coin generation rate, to help you to understant it better.

And to answer your question if I believe YAC will be around in another 30 years... yes I do. I really do.

Good to have faith. Your YACs today will be worth 10% by then (half of it due to POS) however, measured by percentage of coinbase (see my post in above link).

[Beave162]

As a result I calculated in the follow up post that it will take at least 30 years to do that at current high coin generation rate, to help you to understant it better.

30 years to do what? PoW coin generation equal POS coin generation? I didn't say that, but why would that matter anyway? BTW I love how you are referencing a post a while back when I didn't think you were just a child wanting attention.

Good to have faith. Your YACs today will be worth 10% by then (half of it due to POS) however, measured by percentage of coinbase (see my post in above link).

For anyone else who might also have this concept dreadfully confused...

If you want to say that 'inflation' (new money created), steals value from the money already in existence, then you have to ASSUME EVERYTHING ANYTHING EVER is a CONSTANT. Even if you make such a mindless approach, then still the total marketcap would be a constant, which is obviously proven otherwise.

As an example, the way PoS is supposed to work (originally with PeerCoin) is that it doesn't decrease the price as there is a huge incentive to hoard which lowers the money velocity--generally the opposite with PoW, but there are other factors.

Adoption, adoption, adoption. Inflation is a term for MONEY, and YACoin needs to become accepted as such. I think the way yacoins are being distributed in this adoption phase is new and interesting and different, which a coin surely HAS to be in order to potentially ever surpass bitcoin or government fiat. It would be interesting though to see a coin that had constant PoW RATE--block reward as a percentage of coins already in existence...

Changing block rewards is really just a question for one creating a new coin. Manipulating money supply of an existing coin is mind-boggling hypocritical for cryptocurrency. It is also absurd in effectiveness. It would be like banging your head against a wall to get rid of a headache.

[Groko]

Wow I love all the discussion! So much drama! If only we had some way of ... hmmmm ...  conceptualizing
the inflation rate of YACoin. Wait! I know! A bunch of graphical charts!

... Introducing ...

... Drum Roll ....

http://explore.grokonet.com/?inflation=1

I present a collection of brand new YACoin inflation charts for all to enjoy. And may all your fears of
inflation be tamed. These charts are updated once every minute. Amazing!
According to my calculations, YACoin inflation is going down quite dramatically and steadily.
After all, YACoin is only 1.3 years old.

I also present ...

http://explore.grokonet.com/?volume=1

Which is a collection of volume charts also updated every minute. I think they give a kind of assurance
that people are doing what YACoin was designed to do. That is exchanging currency. Not just mining it.

[Thirtybird]

Wow I love all the discussion! So much drama! If only we had some way of ... hmmmm ...  conceptualizing
the inflation rate of YACoin. Wait! I know! A bunch of graphical charts!

... Introducing ...

... Drum Roll ....

http://explore.grokonet.com/?inflation=1

I present a collection of brand new YACoin inflation charts for all to enjoy. And may all your fears of
inflation be tamed. These charts are updated once every minute. Amazing!
According to my calculations, YACoin inflation is going down quite dramatically and steadily.
After all, YACoin is only 1.3 years old.

I also present ...

http://explore.grokonet.com/?volume=1

Which is a collection of volume charts also updated every minute. I think they give a kind of assurance
that people are doing what YACoin was designed to do. That is exchanging currency. Not just mining it.

But, but but.... I was promised 100% inflation! 

Actually, getting 502 bad gateway, so I didn't get to look yet...

[Groko]

But, but but.... I was promised 100% inflation! 

Actually, getting 502 bad gateway, so I didn't get to look yet...

My server ran out of memory or something and crashed. Sorry for the kill joy. I shifted things
around so hopefully that won't keep happening. It's back up for now.

From the charts you can see that back in November inflation was hovering around %300. Now it
is hovering around %100. That's a pretty dramatic drop if you ask me.

[mhps]

For anyone else who might also have this concept dreadfully confused...

If you want to say that 'inflation' (new money created), steals value from the money already in existence, then you have to ASSUME EVERYTHING ANYTHING EVER is a CONSTANT. Even if you make such a mindless approach, then still the total marketcap would be a constant, which is obviously proven otherwise.

[facepalm] Either I am talking to someone who hasn't grasped that "driving at 60 miles per hours" doesn't mean one has to drive at a CONSTANT speed, or I have wasted time trying to wake up someone pretending to sleep.