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pisston
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November 17, 2017, 05:44:27 PM
 #41

I believe the assessments our company makes as a requirement for prospective customers fit quite well in the definition of what you're looking for.
Is this some kind of bad joke?
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Our partnership with Bancor means we work exclusively on projects utilising Bancor smart tokens - and our expertise with the Bancor platform positions us perfectly to guide those projects through the crowdfund process.
You let that scam happen.
I wonder how they get the services of such a service is very dubious people and teams. I have seen a lot of ico on the forum today, which do not correspond to the declared document.

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November 17, 2017, 05:49:49 PM
 #42

I believe the assessments our company makes as a requirement for prospective customers fit quite well in the definition of what you're looking for.
Is this some kind of bad joke?
Quote
Our partnership with Bancor means we work exclusively on projects utilising Bancor smart tokens - and our expertise with the Bancor platform positions us perfectly to guide those projects through the crowdfund process.
You let that scam happen.
I wonder how they get the services of such a service is very dubious people and teams. I have seen a lot of ico on the forum today, which do not correspond to the declared document.
Scammers have very low to non existing criteria. Bancor is a prime example of obvious money grab with a flawed idea and zero people with any actual (relevant) knowledge. I was thinking about establishing a certification service, but I am almost certain that pretty much no one[1] grasps how complex a proper certification service for this would be. A "pass vs. fail" certification is definitely out of the rule. It would be too simple, imprecise and likely be inconsistent. What it requires is a grading scale, where the resulting grade is a combination of grades from several areas (similar to language certification) in addition to a level above which a service could be "certified". Theymos could then decide whether a project with a lower passing grade should be allowed to advertise or not.

[1] I've seen at least 1 person in this thread that took this thing seriously.


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November 17, 2017, 06:23:38 PM
 #43

This service would be great in theory, but if it was run by people who knew what they were doing and doing a thorough job then probably 99% of ICOs would not pass it. Even the ICOs that probably have a good idea or start off with the best of intentions will likely have no idea what they're doing and mismanage funds and the project will just straight up fail or turn into a scam somewhere.

I out scammers all the time on here for free, but hey, if someone wants to pay me to do it full time, no problem.

If you are providing some kind of structure to how you make your judgements with some kind of track record then you could provide that service for the forum.  That is what OP is asking for.

I know what the OP is asking for, and the reason why. All these scam ICO's will soon become detrimental to the forum that he owns, and possibly cause him some unwanted attention from the authorities.

Not necessarily, and I don't even think this would work because they'll still likely not be SEC compliant. He's probably just uneasy about advertising these blatant cash-grab scams which just seem to be rinses and repeats of the same bullshit under a different name and gimmick. With that being said, I've always wondered how long it would be before this forum caught some sort of heat because sometimes it just seems like a darknet market on a clear-net site. I mean, we have an entire sub board for what are essentially ponzis and pyramid schemes but if I recall correctly theymos mentioned he had taken legal advice regarding it or them being allowed to operate here (though don't quote me on that and maybe theymos could clarify). It would also be interesting to know if any threats or serious attention from the authorities has actually been made as this forum is pretty much the main hub of ICOs. I think it's only a matter of time before ICO campaigns are straight up made illegal - because they likely already technically are - or at least cracked down on extensively. They are pretty much a prime example of what happens with completely unregulated financial markets and how greed and scammers always take advantage of that.   

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November 17, 2017, 06:34:26 PM
 #44

Hey, The Naga Group is interested in some advertisement on Bitcointalk. https://www.nagaico.com

How can we proceed certification services?

Looking forward hearing from you!

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November 17, 2017, 06:38:40 PM
 #45

How can we proceed certification services?
There are no credible certification services as of yet. This thread is a discussion thread about establishing such services and not about certification.


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November 17, 2017, 07:13:38 PM
 #46

I believe the assessments our company makes as a requirement for prospective customers fit quite well in the definition of what you're looking for.
Is this some kind of bad joke?
Quote
Our partnership with Bancor means we work exclusively on projects utilising Bancor smart tokens - and our expertise with the Bancor platform positions us perfectly to guide those projects through the crowdfund process.
You let that scam happen.



hahahahahaha...

Yeah, let the scammers come in and tell us which ICOs are "good" and which ones are "bad."  That's a great idea!!!!!


Thanks for pointing out such absurdity of the suggestion of thehun, Lauda.

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November 18, 2017, 10:03:39 PM
 #47

I guess the forum itself could do it, since that probably would be the only way for there to exist a certification service that ICOs will actually feel like they need to go through to attract investors. Otherwise most ICOs will just ignore the certification service since it won't be worth exposing themselves to such scrutiny just to be able to bid to buy advertising.

Maybe there could be two certification products with such a service? A "basic" which would be cheaper but more quick; that would be an analysis to make sure the proposed product is viable and actually makes sense, the people behind it are legitimate and real, and the amount being raised doesn't seem excessive. Then there could be an "advanced" certification scheme which would be more rigorous and involved. Things could be set up so that only ICOs with a basic certification can post, but ICOs with advanced certification can buy advertising and take advantage of signature campaigns.

This has the added benefit that every ICO presented on the forum will at least have gone through a basic check which would push out all the obvious scams. The money earned from proceeds from basic certification can then pay for the in depth research and analysis that would be required to do any advanced certifications.
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November 19, 2017, 11:33:49 AM
 #48

I believe the assessments our company makes as a requirement for prospective customers fit quite well in the definition of what you're looking for.
Is this some kind of bad joke?
Quote
Our partnership with Bancor means we work exclusively on projects utilising Bancor smart tokens - and our expertise with the Bancor platform positions us perfectly to guide those projects through the crowdfund process.
You let that scam happen.
I wonder how they get the services of such a service is very dubious people and teams. I have seen a lot of ico on the forum today, which do not correspond to the declared document.
Scammers have very low to non existing criteria. Bancor is a prime example of obvious money grab with a flawed idea and zero people with any actual (relevant) knowledge. I was thinking about establishing a certification service, but I am almost certain that pretty much no one[1] grasps how complex a proper certification service for this would be. A "pass vs. fail" certification is definitely out of the rule. It would be too simple, imprecise and likely be inconsistent. What it requires is a grading scale, where the resulting grade is a combination of grades from several areas (similar to language certification) in addition to a level above which a service could be "certified". Theymos could then decide whether a project with a lower passing grade should be allowed to advertise or not.

[1] I've seen at least 1 person in this thread that took this thing seriously.

Hello Lauda,

First of all we did not "let it happen" because AmaZix didn't exist yet when Bancor launched their token sale.

Second, I happen to be in Tel Aviv meeting with the Bancor team in their offices and they don't have "zero people" but a team of 20+ persons working hard to come forward.

You can criticize the project in any way you want but calling it a scam when they have a working product that is constantly being developed is unfair and not at all objective.

Finally, a certification service will never assure investors that the project is going to be successful and make them any profits, in any field the majority of startups end up going broke despite being legit and having a solid plan.

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November 19, 2017, 02:11:30 PM
 #49

First of all we did not "let it happen" because AmaZix didn't exist yet when Bancor launched their token sale.
Yet you flaunt that project on your website. Quite amateurish TBH.

Second, I happen to be in Tel Aviv meeting with the Bancor team in their offices and they don't have "zero people" but a team of 20+ persons working hard to come forward.
I said zero people with actual relevant knowledge. Random developers from random areas are absolutely not people with relevant knowledge. Also: "hard working people != experts".

You can criticize the project in any way you want but calling it a scam when they have a working product that is constantly being developed is unfair and not at all objective.
Objectively, it's a money grabbing scam. It should not exist, yet it does.

Finally, a certification service will never assure investors that the project is going to be successful and make them any profits, in any field the majority of startups end up going broke despite being legit and having a solid plan.
Nobody claimed that.


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November 19, 2017, 02:51:08 PM
 #50

First of all we did not "let it happen" because AmaZix didn't exist yet when Bancor launched their token sale.

Yet you flaunt that project on your website. Quite amateurish TBH.


We are partners of Bancor. Some of our founding members were moderating their Telegram groups and eventually decided to set up a company and continue cooperation with Bancor.

Second, I happen to be in Tel Aviv meeting with the Bancor team in their offices and they don't have "zero people" but a team of 20+ persons working hard to come forward.


I said zero people with actual relevant knowledge. Random developers from random areas are absolutely not people with relevant knowledge. Also: "hard working people != experts".

I don't agree with that. They have a working product and several projects using it. What additional "relevant knowledge" is needed?


You can criticize the project in any way you want but calling it a scam when they have a working product that is constantly being developed is unfair and not at all objective.


Objectively, it's a money grabbing scam. It should not exist, yet it does.


Again I disagree. The concept of Bancor is backed by a good purpose and many use cases. The importance of liquidity (or the lack of it) is not to be underestimated. Of course this might be debatable but there is a good percentage of people who would agree with me so I don't think "it should not exist".


Finally, a certification service will never assure investors that the project is going to be successful and make them any profits, in any field the majority of startups end up going broke despite being legit and having a solid plan.
Nobody claimed that.

Not explicitly but I have the impression that most scam accusations are based on the current price of the token. Had it appreciated in value I bet most of these discussions wouldn't exist at all.

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TE-FOOD
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November 19, 2017, 10:11:24 PM
 #51

Guys, I think for such certification, it's important to separate

legitimacy certification

from

quality validation.

The first one just aims to separate legit ICOs from Scam ICOs. I think this was the original goal of starting this thread.

The second one (quality validation) is a grey area, there are no exact KPIs which would match each project.

akamit
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November 19, 2017, 11:51:10 PM
 #52

The idea of certification is well thought by Theymos.
But to execute such service will be very challenging and expensive.
The certificate an ICO project will receive will not be limited to advertise herein but it will prevent scam/low projects.

Please check this link. Bittrex has a minimum of $5000 fee to review a coin/token
https://support.bittrex.com/hc/en-us/articles/227902667-What-is-a-compliance-review-

Team verification process will be very challenging.
Lets say an Ico project has 5 team members and resides in 5 different countries.
Then the certificate issuer need to hire 5 lawyers in 5 different countries to check their backgrounds and other information.

This going to be very expensive for ICO starters. They will think 100 times before thinking of an ICO.

This is for sure, that we really need this kind of service as soon as possible.

It seems, now we can count stars in the sky. But we will not be able to count ICOs/coins/tokens in near future.

TE-FOOD
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November 20, 2017, 11:01:30 AM
 #53

The idea of certification is well thought by Theymos.
But to execute such service will be very challenging and expensive.
The certificate an ICO project will receive will not be limited to advertise herein but it will prevent scam/low projects.

Please check this link. Bittrex has a minimum of $5000 fee to review a coin/token
https://support.bittrex.com/hc/en-us/articles/227902667-What-is-a-compliance-review-

Team verification process will be very challenging.
Lets say an Ico project has 5 team members and resides in 5 different countries.
Then the certificate issuer need to hire 5 lawyers in 5 different countries to check their backgrounds and other information.

This going to be very expensive for ICO starters. They will think 100 times before thinking of an ICO.

This is for sure, that we really need this kind of service as soon as possible.

It seems, now we can count stars in the sky. But we will not be able to count ICOs/coins/tokens in near future.




I think it's enough to check the backgrounds of the founders, they run the business.

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