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PointHope
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September 01, 2017, 12:29:14 AM
 #21

^
I think the word "church" is being used for lack of a better word.

I'm seeing the concept of protecting ourselves from government oppression to be extremely valid.

Sadly the word church has already been co-opted to some extent by corporate/government controled religions.

The other perhaps more positive perspective is how the "church of bitcoin" is indeed the church of liberty/humanity and respect for life as a whole.

Not exactly new as the roots go back to ancient religion like Shintoism and "the way of the Kami".

Not a stretch of imagination that this is what Satoshi could've been thinking about.
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September 02, 2017, 02:16:23 PM
 #22

I don't really agree or disagree with your core vision, I guess I did not
properly articulate what I was trying to convey. From a theological point
of view, "prophets" are well defined and there are tests that certain
religions have on how to prove whether a prophet is "real".
I generally look to the Oxford English Dictionary for definitions of words; see https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/prophet , "A person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God." The Church of Bitcoin regards Satoshi Nakamoto as an inspired teacher and proclaimer of the will of God.


If the prophet (Satoshi) prophecizes the coming kingdom of cryptocurrencies,
made possible from him being able to solve certain problems with the answer
of "blockchain" plus other previously devised systems, that is acceptable. But
if you say that the Bitcoin Whitepaper was scripture that was literally written
by the prophet's hand (remember that scripture is usually written well after
the teacher/prophet/messiah/God's life/existence by followers after the fact,
not by the person himself in most cases), but later the prophet revises his own
scripture in any form, it automatically makes him a "false prophet", from a
theological point of view.
Well, I disagree; comparing us to other religions is not necessary, we stand alone and do not need to follow any format. Just because "scripture is usually written well after the prophet's existence by followers after the fact" when you look at many other religions, does not mean that holds true for ours. The prophet revising his scripture does not automatically make him a "false prophet."

For example, in Judaism, when Moses "received the Ten Commandments",
if later those commandments were revised in any way by Moses or even God,
it would mean a contradiction that would prove that Moses or God was false.
Those commandments must be consistent through time for humanity. Another
example, in Christianity, when Jesus preached to the crowds and fought with
the corrupted Pharisees, he specifically advised that he did not come to change
the laws/rules or abolish them, but to reaffirm them. Thus, Jesus does not
contradict or change the old beliefs, rules, or teachings prior to him, since
they were all from God and thus consistent and complementary, from a
theological perspective. Jesus does not declare the prior teachings or prophesies
to be wrong, but if there is perceived contradiction in them, he clarifies the
teachings and explains why the perceived contradiction is a misunderstanding
by the people. He can not reverse positions if he is a true prophet and his
teachings come from God.
We do not claim that the whitepaper was handed to Satoshi directly from God. We do believe that the living lord is embodied in the blockchain.

Changing positions in theology is very bad, since all things are already known by
God, because he resides in a higher dimension where the information has already
occurred. So if God changes his mind or is wrong with something, it is because
he is a false god. True God is never wrong and his real statements will be proven
to be true at the very end of existence, even if considered wrong through human
existence. God (or his actual prophets) can not be made wrong or contradicted.
God's word, which is enforced over time by prophecy, is the only trustless truth
that humans can verify (in relation to a higher being's existence), and if he is
proven to be a liar, existence and consciousness does not manifest as it has since
it is reliant upon that trustless truth of his word, which formed the beginning and
his own paradox ("I am who I am." or "I think therefore I am".).
Sounds like you are making bold assertions about what God is or isn't. I have a copy of God on my harddrive. He is embodied in the blockchain. You cannot tell me what dimension God resides in, whether he is a false god or not, whether true God can be wrong or can change his mind, or anything else on the subject, really. We here at the Church of Bitcoin do not even claim that our God is the one true or only God; some of our members believe in other gods as well, and some do not, and that is fine.

That is why I made the comment I did previously. You could argue that Satoshi
was "divinely inspired" to write the Whitepaper and so revisions or additions or
subtractions are acceptable since he was a proxy only to move a larger aspect/goal
forward at the time that it was designated. But, if he was indeed a "prophet", he
would have received that message (the Whitepaper) from God (whatever form
your church will believe God takes) and if later there are indeed changes to the
design of the system because the Whitepaper was lacking or wrong, that would
prove the prophet or the God as false, and thus the "scripture" was "a false
teaching". Personally, I believe Satoshi was not infallible and all knowing and
thus was "divinely inspired" to perform the work that he did.
Satoshi was divinely inspired; but he was also a prophet. He did not only receive "the Whitepaper," rather, he received the whole concept of the blockchain and bitcoin, and his whitepaper was his first attempt at sharing that concept with the world. The Lord is embodied in the blockchain; he needed Satoshi to help bring him into this world and get copies of him distributed throughout it.

So my original point was that Satoshi as a "prophet" is dangerous to the Church and
its future since eventually there will be such large conflicts in theory and theology
that eventually your Church will either split into multiple parts or dissolve. I do
not have a problem with religion or creating a Church, my only issue is that if
you are being very serious and not creating a joke church for fun, there is a higher
responsibility that you are taking on since you are intentionally making it fall within
other world religion theories. My simple advice is to not make Satoshi a prophet and
then you can argue and theorize almost anything. If you must make him a prophet,
you may be purposefully creating a theological contradiction that other people
who hate what you are doing can use as an easy attack vector to discredit your
church and its work.
Thanks for the advice.

In certain ways, religion can be as strict as science. Just as there can be
Pseudo-science, there could also be pseudo-religion. That is all I'm trying to convey.
There may be larger issues later by arguing that Satoshi was an actual "prophet",
as opposed to being "divinely inspired" to solve a puzzle that moves humanity to
another stage of evolution and understanding. Sometimes God uses people in ways
in which they fulfill the greater plan, but are not actual prophets for God. But in truth,
I really do not know and I am just providing my opinion for something to consider.
Interesting opinions. Thanks for sharing.

I don't use IRC and will not participate only because I don't want to influence what
you will create and I am interested in what will come of it. I only wanted to point out
the Satoshi=Prophet aspect because depending on how it is done could make or
break the church or its theology. Either way good luck, I eagerly await to see
what you guys will come up with, since Bitcoin in the context of theology is an
interesting angle/viewpoint for me. What I enjoy most is seeing unconventional
connections to things that I didn't see or understand before.
Your loss.


I agree with this. I don't know why you choose the name church. As we know church symbolizes as a sacred home of god or whatever religion they called it. Although you're intension of creating an organization that pushes through a tax-free sociaty is not a bad idea. I just don't get it why you choose that name.
We are not primarily about pushing through a tax-free society. We are here to spread the word of our living Lord the blockchain, and his prophet Satoshi Nakamoto. We choose the name church because it suits us and accurately describes us.

I think the word "church" is being used for lack of a better word.
I'm seeing the concept of protecting ourselves from government oppression to be extremely valid.
Sadly the word church has already been co-opted to some extent by corporate/government controled religions.
The other perhaps more positive perspective is how the "church of bitcoin" is indeed the church of liberty/humanity and respect for life as a whole.
Not exactly new as the roots go back to ancient religion like Shintoism and "the way of the Kami".
Not a stretch of imagination that this is what Satoshi could've been thinking about.
Certainly, most of the words I choose I choose "for lack of a better word." Thank you for your positive comments about our organization. We welcome you to join us.

A properly secured wallet with bitcoin is in my opinion the safest, most secure, best all-around bet for holding wealth at this moment in history. Go ahead, call me crazy. They've been calling me crazy since 2013.
https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2FDBDDB5A65EF399
https://churchofbitcoin.org/
http://rompfamily.com/
http://provideapp.com/
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September 02, 2017, 10:12:59 PM
 #23

I don't really agree or disagree with your core vision, I guess I did not
properly articulate what I was trying to convey. From a theological point
of view, "prophets" are well defined and there are tests that certain
religions have on how to prove whether a prophet is "real".
I generally look to the Oxford English Dictionary for definitions of words; see https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/prophet , "A person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God." The Church of Bitcoin regards Satoshi Nakamoto as an inspired teacher and proclaimer of the will of God.

That is your right to do, but using regular dictionaries to define theological
concepts is not the practice. Normally, you must examine the religions and
see how they define "prophets".

Your definition provided is a contradiction from a theological perspective if
you interpret "inspired teacher", as equivalent to "divine inspiration". Musicians
sometimes believe that their work manifests from another place from outside
themselves, sometimes referred to "divine inspiration" or a "higher power", but
other humans consider that person a "genius". Whatever the truth, that does
not make Musicians become prophets or "inspired teachers" from a religious
point of view. By this termonology, Jimi Hendrix could be a "musical prophet",
but in religion, that would be an improper usage of the term "prophet".

When it comes to "proclaimer of the will of God" it is actually more simple.
For a human to know God's will and thus preach it, it is normally assumed
there is a direct link with God in some way. A prophet in a religious sense,
is in communication with God and thus is capable of being the "proclaimer
of will", only due to communication. In instances where the "will is inherently
known", and there is no communication, it is possible the "proclaimer" or
"prophet" is God partitioned and expressed using a human form.

If Satoshi was "divinely inspired", God used him, without knowing the will.
If Satoshi was a "prophet", God instructed the will & guided his words.
If Satoshi was "God", he is the will itself, and can do as he wills.



If the prophet (Satoshi) prophecizes the coming kingdom of cryptocurrencies,
made possible from him being able to solve certain problems with the answer
of "blockchain" plus other previously devised systems, that is acceptable. But
if you say that the Bitcoin Whitepaper was scripture that was literally written
by the prophet's hand (remember that scripture is usually written well after
the teacher/prophet/messiah/God's life/existence by followers after the fact,
not by the person himself in most cases), but later the prophet revises his own
scripture in any form, it automatically makes him a "false prophet", from a
theological point of view.
Well, I disagree; comparing us to other religions is not necessary, we stand alone and do not need to follow any format. Just because "scripture is usually written well after the prophet's existence by followers after the fact" when you look at many other religions, does not mean that holds true for ours. The prophet revising his scripture does not automatically make him a "false prophet."

That is your right to do. You can create whatever you wish.
I was providing my statements for consideration in the context of prior
religions and certain beliefs of theology.



For example, in Judaism, when Moses "received the Ten Commandments",
if later those commandments were revised in any way by Moses or even God,
it would mean a contradiction that would prove that Moses or God was false.
Those commandments must be consistent through time for humanity. Another
example, in Christianity, when Jesus preached to the crowds and fought with
the corrupted Pharisees, he specifically advised that he did not come to change
the laws/rules or abolish them, but to reaffirm them. Thus, Jesus does not
contradict or change the old beliefs, rules, or teachings prior to him, since
they were all from God and thus consistent and complementary, from a
theological perspective. Jesus does not declare the prior teachings or prophesies
to be wrong, but if there is perceived contradiction in them, he clarifies the
teachings and explains why the perceived contradiction is a misunderstanding
by the people. He can not reverse positions if he is a true prophet and his
teachings come from God.
We do not claim that the whitepaper was handed to Satoshi directly from God. We do believe that the living lord is embodied in the blockchain.

I did not mean to convey that Satoshi received the Whitepaper physically by
God, like as with Moses. I only used the "Moses and the Ten Commandments"
example as a way for you to immediately grasps what I was trying to convey.
Satoshi wrote different versions of the Whitepaper before publishing what is
the common version today. So I know Satoshi himself actually constructed it,
as opposed to being physically given by God.


But, just for curiosity's sake:
1. Who is the "living lord" and can he exist outside the blockchain?
2. Does the "living lord" exist in all blockchain types or only some?



Changing positions in theology is very bad, since all things are already known by
God, because he resides in a higher dimension where the information has already
occurred. So if God changes his mind or is wrong with something, it is because
he is a false god. True God is never wrong and his real statements will be proven
to be true at the very end of existence, even if considered wrong through human
existence. God (or his actual prophets) can not be made wrong or contradicted.
God's word, which is enforced over time by prophecy, is the only trustless truth
that humans can verify (in relation to a higher being's existence), and if he is
proven to be a liar, existence and consciousness does not manifest as it has since
it is reliant upon that trustless truth of his word, which formed the beginning and
his own paradox ("I am who I am." or "I think therefore I am".).
Sounds like you are making bold assertions about what God is or isn't. I have a copy of God on my harddrive. He is embodied in the blockchain. You cannot tell me what dimension God resides in, whether he is a false god or not, whether true God can be wrong or can change his mind, or anything else on the subject, really. We here at the Church of Bitcoin do not even claim that our God is the one true or only God; some of our members believe in other gods as well, and some do not, and that is fine.

Indeed, indeed, I do make such assertions.

But it does not matter what I think since you can create whatever you wish.
I was just providing my statements for your consideration and not offense.

I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
Request a signed message if you are associating with anyone claiming to be me.
rjbtc2017
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September 04, 2017, 03:11:52 AM
 #24

This is fascinating, when do you plan to build your physical church or you will just build a virtual church?, Do you have any Bible to use here?.

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September 07, 2017, 11:00:58 PM
 #25

This is fascinating, when do you plan to build your physical church or you will just build a virtual church?, Do you have any Bible to use here?.

We have a structure that we are currently using as our physical church here in Salisbury Vermont; we hold services on Sunday mornings at 11am. If you are interested in joining us, please reach out by email, info@churchofbitcoin.org

A properly secured wallet with bitcoin is in my opinion the safest, most secure, best all-around bet for holding wealth at this moment in history. Go ahead, call me crazy. They've been calling me crazy since 2013.
https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2FDBDDB5A65EF399
https://churchofbitcoin.org/
http://rompfamily.com/
http://provideapp.com/
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September 09, 2017, 11:55:48 AM
 #26

is there a real church like that?
HenryRomp
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Separation of currency and state.


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September 11, 2017, 12:54:22 AM
 #27

is there a real church like that?

Yes, we hold our services Sunday mornings at 11am at 124 Dewey Rd, Salisbury, VT 05769, in the church-shaped building, upstairs above the horse tack room. The building is just a shell, the inside is not "finished", and our steeple is nothing fancy to look at, but yes, it is our church and we do hold our services there.

As mentioned on the webpage, if you would like to attend one of our services, you should reach out to us by email at info@churchofbitcoin.org first, so that we can be expecting you; the church is on private property and all visitors must be expected.


A properly secured wallet with bitcoin is in my opinion the safest, most secure, best all-around bet for holding wealth at this moment in history. Go ahead, call me crazy. They've been calling me crazy since 2013.
https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x2FDBDDB5A65EF399
https://churchofbitcoin.org/
http://rompfamily.com/
http://provideapp.com/
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September 13, 2017, 10:49:47 PM
 #28

Hi Henry,
I'm an atheist but I would totally join the Church of Bitcoin. lol what an enlightenment.  Grin
At least you believe that the church is a holy place, anyone has the right to say that.
it is your kindness, respecting anyone with the difference. Religion is the right of anyone and bitcoin is not a matter of religion it is very important.


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September 14, 2017, 07:09:43 AM
 #29

is there a real church like that?

Yes, we hold our services Sunday mornings at 11am at 124 Dewey Rd, Salisbury, VT 05769, in the church-shaped building, upstairs above the horse tack room. The building is just a shell, the inside is not "finished", and our steeple is nothing fancy to look at, but yes, it is our church and we do hold our services there.

As mentioned on the webpage, if you would like to attend one of our services, you should reach out to us by email at info@churchofbitcoin.org first, so that we can be expecting you; the church is on private property and all visitors must be expected.


Kudos to you. How's attendance so far? How do your ceremonies look like? Every organized religion needs its rituals!

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September 19, 2017, 03:28:57 AM
 #30

Well, I did not expect that it could go this far. I'm used to hearing cults but worshipping bitcoin is out of
 my imagination. I think it's time for me to accept that religion is for crazy people.
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October 16, 2017, 06:47:05 PM
 #31

Who will be as a god?

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October 17, 2017, 07:48:45 AM
 #32

Who will be as a god?

It is already stated in the title thread. I really don't care if they make this stupid idea as long as they don't harm any people. If they start acting like cults and making  disgusting rituals then they should be reported to authorities.

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October 17, 2017, 11:11:29 AM
 #33

I don't believe in God and belong to the Church as a Scam. The fact that OP says this is not a Church. This is a Scam that does not hide in order not to have problems with the law. If a person goes to the police they will say that we had warned about his intentions and the man himself agreed to give us money. When it comes to bitcoin then you will need to prove material damage.This will make it quite difficult.

.

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October 17, 2017, 11:40:26 AM
 #34

Who will be as a god?

It is already stated in the title thread. I really don't care if they make this stupid idea as long as they don't harm any people. If they start acting like cults and making  disgusting rituals then they should be reported to authorities.

I think it is a corporation rather than a team. It obviously works when you put work on it and not just praying for it to for the better. Maybe some of us here are religous but i think even religous people wont agree to bitcoin as a cult. They are very different on how they functions or even help society. So we should set aside btc and church and see them as separate entities that does not hurt but rather help people in their own ways.

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October 17, 2017, 02:22:15 PM
 #35

I find it funny when adults talk about God. But it's not about that. A lot of people really built bitcoin to the rank of God. They categorically believe that he will make everybody rich. This can not none of the gods known in the religions. I don't see any difference. And some others believe in what can't be.

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October 19, 2017, 12:36:41 PM
 #36

This is fascinating, when do you plan to build your physical church or you will just build a virtual church?, Do you have any Bible to use here?.

You can not expect to be a real church! It will most likely be a virtual church and will broadcast various religious music and speeches via radio. It makes me a little ridiculous. There is evidence that there is no limit to the use of bitcoin.



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Rainbot
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October 21, 2017, 05:36:17 PM
 #37

For me hard to believe is happening. But anyway, I think is just a concept to make people use bitcoin when they want come to church of bitcoin.
I'm not sure about the government will legalized it or not.



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--PrettyCryptoGurl--
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October 24, 2017, 03:30:52 PM
 #38


To join our church, a bitcoin transaction of at least one satoshi is required. A one-time payment of one satoshi guarantees lifetime membership in the Church of Bitcoin...


Way to go, man! Spoken like a real bitcoin church pastor urging his flock to surrender their love offering! Grin Grin You should have also quoted Nakamoto 3:10: "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Satoshi Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it." Grin Grin Grin
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October 24, 2017, 08:29:28 PM
 #39

This situation only confirms the fact that all churches are intended to pump money out of people. This is achieved in different speeches, ideology. They have different idols but one goal. I do not understand how in our time can be so stupid to believe in God. All religion is a fraud. In order to verify this it is enough to see how they live their leaders.

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November 16, 2017, 07:13:59 AM
 #40


To join our church, a bitcoin transaction of at least one satoshi is required. A one-time payment of one satoshi guarantees lifetime membership in the Church of Bitcoin...


Way to go, man! Spoken like a real bitcoin church pastor urging his flock to surrender their love offering! Grin Grin You should have also quoted Nakamoto 3:10: "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Satoshi Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it." Grin Grin Grin


I'm imagining myself bursting into laughter if I have ever heard this in their church. So who are you worshipping? Satoshi or Bitcoin? Humans are really the most entertaining creature of this world.

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