[ANN][CHIPS] KMD platform's LN app with realtime betting+decentralized shuffling

[okie dokie]

theoretically any game that can be reduced to a set of events with a deterministic game evaluation can be done.
please identify a game that cannot be reduced to a set of events with a deterministic game evaluation.

Ok, these are big words I don't often use so Im going to have to rely on some duckduckgo searching. Maybe you could rephrase what exactly you mean by deterministic game evaluation?


https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedesign/comments/2mrqum/deterministic_vs_non_deterministic_games/

A deterministic game will have a starting state, and for every sequence of input received the ending state will always be the same for that given starting state and the same sequence of input. An example would be, play a game of chess till the end, then play a second game of chess with the exact same moves by both players and the outcome (white wins, black wins, or stale-mate) will be the same. Going further, play a third game but set the board up 10 moves into the first game, then play all the remaining moves from that game you'll arrive at the same outcome.

I heard of a video game, don't remember the name, that the designer made deterministic to the point where his bug-report/crash log was just the series of input from the player, so he could recreate the bug/crash exactly how the player did.

In contrast to chess a game of pool or billiards could be considered non-deteministic.

http://www.whatgamesare.com/determinism.html

Determinism
A game is deterministic if the resolution of player actions leads to completely predictable outcomes. It is indeterministic to one degree or another if actions lead to potentially chaotic outcomes. Chess is an example of a determinist game: the rules allow for no variation of outcome and there are no physical factors involved. Football, on the other hand, is an indeterminist game: players cannot reliably kick the ball exactly the same way each time, and the small variations of that action lead to chaotic outcomes.

A sense of indeterminism, or luck, often makes a game exciting. Players like to sense that there is always a chance that they will win, that the right card will land or a ball will make a lucky bounce. However too much indeterminism (such as in Snakes and Ladders) removes all sense of agency from the game, and that's rarely fun.

Determinism in Programming
Programmers mean something slightly different when discussing deteminism. A game engine like Quake may well be determinist in terms of replicating the results of player action faithfully, but to the player it may feel indeterminist because their execution of that action may be slightly wrong. So although the game is not random, to player it feels a little like it is.

To a programmer, the question of determinism is all about how the game engine behaves. To the game designer, it is about how it is perceived to behave.

[1714186405]

1714186405

[jl777B]

theoretically any game that can be reduced to a set of events with a deterministic game evaluation can be done.
please identify a game that cannot be reduced to a set of events with a deterministic game evaluation.

Ok, these are big words I don't often use so Im going to have to rely on some duckduckgo searching. Maybe you could rephrase what exactly you mean by deterministic game evaluation?


https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedesign/comments/2mrqum/deterministic_vs_non_deterministic_games/

A deterministic game will have a starting state, and for every sequence of input received the ending state will always be the same for that given starting state and the same sequence of input. An example would be, play a game of chess till the end, then play a second game of chess with the exact same moves by both players and the outcome (white wins, black wins, or stale-mate) will be the same. Going further, play a third game but set the board up 10 moves into the first game, then play all the remaining moves from that game you'll arrive at the same outcome.

I heard of a video game, don't remember the name, that the designer made deterministic to the point where his bug-report/crash log was just the series of input from the player, so he could recreate the bug/crash exactly how the player did.

In contrast to chess a game of pool or billiards could be considered non-deteministic.

http://www.whatgamesare.com/determinism.html

Determinism
A game is deterministic if the resolution of player actions leads to completely predictable outcomes. It is indeterministic to one degree or another if actions lead to potentially chaotic outcomes. Chess is an example of a determinist game: the rules allow for no variation of outcome and there are no physical factors involved. Football, on the other hand, is an indeterminist game: players cannot reliably kick the ball exactly the same way each time, and the small variations of that action lead to chaotic outcomes.

A sense of indeterminism, or luck, often makes a game exciting. Players like to sense that there is always a chance that they will win, that the right card will land or a ball will make a lucky bounce. However too much indeterminism (such as in Snakes and Ladders) removes all sense of agency from the game, and that's rarely fun.

Determinism in Programming
Programmers mean something slightly different when discussing deteminism. A game engine like Quake may well be determinist in terms of replicating the results of player action faithfully, but to the player it may feel indeterminist because their execution of that action may be slightly wrong. So although the game is not random, to player it feels a little like it is.

To a programmer, the question of determinism is all about how the game engine behaves. To the game designer, it is about how it is perceived to behave.

I just mean that given the same set of game events (who got what cards type of thing) that all nodes will decide the same outcome, ie. bob wins

[PaulScavenger]

I think what he means is;

Alice and Bob receive a destination.

Alice and Bob must both reach that destination utilizing the same path.

If there is a random element(ie they are given different paths), then it will not work.

[jl777B]

I think what he means is;

Alice and Bob receive a destination.

Alice and Bob must both reach that destination utilizing the same path.

If there is a random element(ie they walk different paths), then it will not work.

does four deuces win against a straight flush?
does three of a kind beat two pairs

like that, as long as each node can determine who has which cards from the events and has a deterministic way of determining the winner, theoretically it can be done.

however, if the game has something like: "in the event of a tie, flip a coin", then this tie break coin flip needs to be encoded in the group shuffled random numbers and it cannot be determined on a node by node basis

[okie dokie]

jl777 Nov 23, 2017 08:47
it means that even though the game itself might be complex, since there wont be a need to implement a game engine, it turns out to be much easier
to support blockchain enforcing any specific game, all nodes will need to be able to evaluate the outcome of all the moves
so the research for each game should also find the best open source project that implements that game, if the gameplay is non-trivial

I guess Im just interested to find out if it is in the plans to include other games besides traditional casino games. And by include other games, I mean not the game engine, but the blockchain enforcing part.

To bring it back to huntercoin, they forked namecoin, replaced the url part with game state moves, and modded the wallet to allow gameplay, also a third partydev created another more advanced gameplay wallet.

So Im hoping that this blockchain enforcing part or what ever its called is foreward thinking to be robust enough that games from mmo to say smash brothers (not just casino) can have their game state run on these chips lightning networks.


[chips also excites me because gambling was one of Satoshi's original uses for bitcoin, so I see this as inline with the original vision]

[jl777B]

jl777 Nov 23, 2017 08:47
it means that even though the game itself might be complex, since there wont be a need to implement a game engine, it turns out to be much easier
to support blockchain enforcing any specific game, all nodes will need to be able to evaluate the outcome of all the moves
so the research for each game should also find the best open source project that implements that game, if the gameplay is non-trivial

I guess Im just interested to find out if it is in the plans to include other games besides traditional casino games. And by include other games, I mean not the game engine, but the blockchain enforcing part.

To bring it back to huntercoin, they forked namecoin, replaced the url part with game state moves, and modded the wallet to allow gameplay, also a third partydev created another more advanced gameplay wallet.

So Im hoping that this blockchain enforcing part or what ever its called is foreward thinking to be robust enough that games from mmo to say smash brothers (not just casino) can have their game state run on these chips lightning networks.


[chips also excites me because gambling was one of Satoshi's original uses for bitcoin, so I see this as inline with the original vision]

I intend to apply my usual level of forward thinkingness for CHIPS

[Mynameischair]

i apologize for the newb question but does this coin have a wallet. I  hate the idea of leaving it on the exchange.

[jl777B]

i apologize for the newb question but does this coin have a wallet. I  hate the idea of leaving it on the exchange.

yes
QT wallet on OP

[Mynameischair]

i apologize for the newb question but does this coin have a wallet. I  hate the idea of leaving it on the exchange.

yes
QT wallet on OP

sorry but i couldn't find anything labeled wallet, by any chance is it the binaries?

[jl777B]

i apologize for the newb question but does this coin have a wallet. I  hate the idea of leaving it on the exchange.

yes
QT wallet on OP

sorry but i couldn't find anything labeled wallet, by any chance is it the binaries?

yes

[Mynameischair]

i apologize for the newb question but does this coin have a wallet. I  hate the idea of leaving it on the exchange.

yes
QT wallet on OP

sorry but i couldn't find anything labeled wallet, by any chance is it the binaries?

yes

Thanks man

[okie dokie]

Now if crypto kitties ran on chips lightning networks there would be no "slow down " of the network like eth.

Who would have guessed that crypto kitties would be popular.

Crypto kitties 2.0

Kittie Chips?

[jl777B]

Now if crypto kitties ran on chips lightning networks there would be no "slow down " of the network like eth.

Who would have guessed that crypto kitties would be popular.

Crypto kitties 2.0

Kittie Chips?

I have always known games will be what takes the blockchain mainstream

[12inchMom]

Now if crypto kitties ran on chips lightning networks there would be no "slow down " of the network like eth.

Who would have guessed that crypto kitties would be popular.

Crypto kitties 2.0

Kittie Chips?

I have always known games will be what takes the blockchain mainstream

call me creepy but i think it will be games and porn. that crypto kitty though is something else. buddy sold a character for approx 120k. that's insane

[PaulScavenger]

... but can it run Crysis?

[okie dokie]

Now if crypto kitties ran on chips lightning networks there would be no "slow down " of the network like eth.

Who would have guessed that crypto kitties would be popular.

Crypto kitties 2.0

Kittie Chips?

I have always known games will be what takes the blockchain mainstream

call me creepy but i think it will be games and porn. that crypto kitty though is something else. buddy sold a character for approx 120k. that's insane

120k, is that for real? Wow, I have a hard time believing that. But then again, never underestimate what people come up with when you add in as many degrees of freedom as possible. Minecraft is good example.

[ComputerGenie]

Nice project. Why aren't you on Cryptopia? Missing CHIPS there.

Forget Cryptopia, there's none missing on BarterDEX and you can even do 0-confirmation swaps into your own private wallet 

[okie dokie]

Finally hit the 20,000,000 coin mark. Based on current hash rate, what is the best guess for when all 21 mil coins are out?

[jl777B]

Finally hit the 20,000,000 coin mark. Based on current hash rate, what is the best guess for when all 21 mil coins are out?

never
I think block reward goes to 0 satoshis before it sums up to 21 million, something about infinite series, but not 100% sure on this.

the more practical question is when does it ready 20.99 million
I leave the answer to this for the reader to solve

[extravirgin]

is this strictly pow? i left my wallet open for a few days now and nothing.