Bitcoin mixer and tumbler

[crazyivan]

OP, it s an excellent way to send 1 BTC and never see your 1 BTC again. Dont forget these services are designed to help scammers mix their Bitcoins so they cannot be followed. Your really thing they were not designed by scammers with the same idea. So you just go ahead a mix your coins.

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[illinest]

Decentralized exchanges, decentralized darknet markets, trustless mixing are not available yet. But anonymous cryptocurrencies are. You say its Monero. Ok. Why dont the people who have something to hide start using that?

Decentralized market places will be the next one coming with Open Bazaar leading the way.

I think the people trying to hide are definitely already using Monero. There was some XMR confiscated at Alphabay, for instance. The problem is that there is not much liquidity. Until it is much more widely accepted (and an economy is grown outside of centralized KYC exchanges), it's difficult to use much else than Bitcoin.

[pinkflower]

Decentralized exchanges, decentralized darknet markets, trustless mixing are not available yet. But anonymous cryptocurrencies are. You say its Monero. Ok. Why dont the people who have something to hide start using that?

Decentralized market places will be the next one coming with Open Bazaar leading the way.

I think the people trying to hide are definitely already using Monero. There was some XMR confiscated at Alphabay, for instance. The problem is that there is not much liquidity. Until it is much more widely accepted (and an economy is grown outside of centralized KYC exchanges), it's difficult to use much else than Bitcoin.

Not everyone of them. If they all were starting to use Monero then the price of XMR would be mooning right now surpassing Ethereum in coinmarketcap.com as the 2nd most valuable cryptocurrency.

The darknet is more huge of a market place than the ordinary person think. Soon most of the cartels will start having their presence in there.

[Kprawn]

The Blockchain keep track of ALL transactions, but mixer services makes it almost impossible for people to trace it backwards

to the sender's address. I know some mixer services keep zero logs {well, they say so} ...so nobody will be able to go

through logs to trace it to it's origin. The thing is, most people do not know who operates these mixer services... it might just

be the government.  ..... like they are running exit nodes on the Tor network. 

[marky89]

The thing is, most people do not know who operates these mixer services... it might just be the government.  ..... like they are running exit nodes on the Tor network. 

If the US government isn't running a mixer service, they will be soon. The Hansa market honeypot makes very clear what direction things are going. Going forward, no centralized services can be trusted--assume any centralized service potentially logging your activities (or at least your metadata) is a honeypot and act accordingly. I'm amazed at the level of funds people put at risk on the darknet markets.

[pinkflower]

The thing is, most people do not know who operates these mixer services... it might just be the government.  ..... like they are running exit nodes on the Tor network. 

If the US government isn't running a mixer service, they will be soon. The Hansa market honeypot makes very clear what direction things are going. Going forward, no centralized services can be trusted--assume any centralized service potentially logging your activities (or at least your metadata) is a honeypot and act accordingly. I'm amazed at the level of funds people put at risk on the darknet markets.

They dont have to run their own mixing service but what they can do is compromise multiple mixing service just like what they allegedly did to bitmixer.io.

Did you all read that funny final message from the owner? It almost looked like he was trying to discredit himself to make the community think something is really wrong.

[Barbut]

The thing is, most people do not know who operates these mixer services... it might just be the government.   ..... like they are running exit nodes on the Tor network.  

If the US government isn't running a mixer service, they will be soon. The Hansa market honeypot makes very clear what direction things are going. Going forward, no centralized services can be trusted--assume any centralized service potentially logging your activities (or at least your metadata) is a honeypot and act accordingly. I'm amazed at the level of funds people put at risk on the darknet markets.

They dont have to run their own mixing service but what they can do is compromise multiple mixing service just like what they allegedly did to bitmixer.io.

Did you all read that funny final message from the owner? It almost looked like he was trying to discredit himself to make the community think something is really wrong.

Mixers are not run by any government, but BitMixer doesn`t exist, they shut down the service and here its why:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2042470.0
`When we started this service I was convinced that any Bitcoin user has a natural right to privacy. I was totally wrong. Now I grasped that Bitcoin is transparent non-anonymous system by design. Blockchain is a great open book. I believe that Bitcoin will have a great future without dark market transactions.`

Transactions can be followed no matter how small or big transactions are, you use service (mixer or tumbler) to hide where your transactions is going, cause you send it to service and then service mix/tumble all transactions and only then send. But service knows where your transaction is going, so if they are not protected well enough someone can hack them and see all transactions, of course service can decide to keep logs for some time or delete it after transaction.

I agree with BitMixer opinion `Very soon this kind of activity will be considered as illegal in most of countries. `, and this is right, bitcoin will not be anonymous and law enforcement agencies will be able to keep track of all bitcoin transactions.

[marky89]

The thing is, most people do not know who operates these mixer services... it might just be the government.  ..... like they are running exit nodes on the Tor network. 

If the US government isn't running a mixer service, they will be soon. The Hansa market honeypot makes very clear what direction things are going. Going forward, no centralized services can be trusted--assume any centralized service potentially logging your activities (or at least your metadata) is a honeypot and act accordingly. I'm amazed at the level of funds people put at risk on the darknet markets.

They dont have to run their own mixing service but what they can do is compromise multiple mixing service just like what they allegedly did to bitmixer.io.

Did you all read that funny final message from the owner? It almost looked like he was trying to discredit himself to make the community think something is really wrong.

How do you think Bitmixer was compromised--packet sniffing, IP logging? It sounds like you think the owner shut the service down and posted those messages after he realized that the site was compromised?

I admit the way that Bitmixer left was very odd. It seems like he was trying to warn past users that their IP addresses and metadata may be at risk due to snooping by the authorities.

[shield132]

OP, it s an excellent way to send 1 BTC and never see your 1 BTC again. Dont forget these services are designed to help scammers mix their Bitcoins so they cannot be followed. Your really thing they were not designed by scammers with the same idea. So you just go ahead a mix your coins.

And what happens when we use mixer very often? Isn't there a chanse to get that 1 BTC back again? Because as almost every mixer claims, they delete every information after 12 or 24 hour so this means there is a chanse that we will get our bitcoin back if we use mixer more than once.
This question was asked to bitmixer and seems it's still in question. I haven't heard answer.

[MAbtc]

OP, it s an excellent way to send 1 BTC and never see your 1 BTC again. Dont forget these services are designed to help scammers mix their Bitcoins so they cannot be followed. Your really thing they were not designed by scammers with the same idea. So you just go ahead a mix your coins.

And what happens when we use mixer very often? Isn't there a chanse to get that 1 BTC back again? Because as almost every mixer claims, they delete every information after 12 or 24 hour so this means there is a chanse that we will get our bitcoin back if we use mixer more than once.
This question was asked to bitmixer and seems it's still in question. I haven't heard answer.

It all depends on how much liquidity there is. And due to the opaque nature of the service, no one can ever know (except the operator) how much liquidity there is. Given the volume of darknet markets and the apparent visibility of very privacy-minded bitcoiners in the space, I would assume that the most popular mixer(s) would be fine for small volumes like 1-10 BTC.

You might get back a small bit of taint from your original inputs if you keep reusing the service. But the bigger problem is that you're probably getting back taint from much "dirtier" coins too, by using the mixer at all.

If you need major liquidity, these mixer services won't work. Imagine if the Bitfinex hacker tried to mix coins through Chipmixer.

[pinkflower]

The thing is, most people do not know who operates these mixer services... it might just be the government.   ..... like they are running exit nodes on the Tor network.  

If the US government isn't running a mixer service, they will be soon. The Hansa market honeypot makes very clear what direction things are going. Going forward, no centralized services can be trusted--assume any centralized service potentially logging your activities (or at least your metadata) is a honeypot and act accordingly. I'm amazed at the level of funds people put at risk on the darknet markets.

They dont have to run their own mixing service but what they can do is compromise multiple mixing service just like what they allegedly did to bitmixer.io.

Did you all read that funny final message from the owner? It almost looked like he was trying to discredit himself to make the community think something is really wrong.

How do you think Bitmixer was compromised--packet sniffing, IP logging? It sounds like you think the owner shut the service down and posted those messages after he realized that the site was compromised?

I admit the way that Bitmixer left was very odd. It seems like he was trying to warn past users that their IP addresses and metadata may be at risk due to snooping by the authorities.

Im not really sure but it would be very possible for law enforcement to have compromised bitmixer.io if they have also done so with the darknet marketplace Hansa.

Their methods should be sophisticated enough by now. Its also known that law enforcement also run Tor exit nodes.

[marky89]

How do you think Bitmixer was compromised--packet sniffing, IP logging? It sounds like you think the owner shut the service down and posted those messages after he realized that the site was compromised?

I admit the way that Bitmixer left was very odd. It seems like he was trying to warn past users that their IP addresses and metadata may be at risk due to snooping by the authorities.

Im not really sure but it would be very possible for law enforcement to have compromised bitmixer.io if they have also done so with the darknet marketplace Hansa.

Their methods should be sophisticated enough by now. Its also known that law enforcement also run Tor exit nodes.

Yeah, I have no doubt after seeing the recent takedowns that their methods are extremely sophisticated. I definitely underestimated them. A couple things of note here, though. For one, there was a case last year that proved that at least one VPN provider's claims of no logs were true. PIA was subpoenaed about some hoaxer and it came out in public court proceedings that they were unable to provide any information subject to the subpoena except that the traffic originated in the general area of Southern California. So no-log VPNs are still viable for the moment.

And yes, law enforcement runs Tor exit nodes, but they definitely don't run them all. I think the key here is not to be low-hanging fruit. There is a lot of low-hanging fruit for law enforcement to pick off. I'm still not convinced that no-log VPN, TOR and mixing through non-KYC services is not viable for the moment.

[bestmixer]

How do you think Bitmixer was compromised--packet sniffing, IP logging? It sounds like you think the owner shut the service down and posted those messages after he realized that the site was compromised?

I admit the way that Bitmixer left was very odd. It seems like he was trying to warn past users that their IP addresses and metadata may be at risk due to snooping by the authorities.

It's much easier. Obviously it was very easy to follow the transactions of this mixer and its followers. We took into account their mistakes. We offer to you to try and to take the advantages of the BestMixer.IO.