Bitcoin Forum
January 20, 2018, 05:47:50 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [All]
  Print  
Author Topic: Nuclear Energy. Do you want more or less?  (Read 3513 times)
epi 1:10,000
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 22, 2011, 02:12:41 AM
 #1

http://www.ted.com/talks/debate_does_the_world_need_nuclear_energy.html
1516427270
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1516427270

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1516427270
Reply with quote  #2

1516427270
Report to moderator
1516427270
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1516427270

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1516427270
Reply with quote  #2

1516427270
Report to moderator
1516427270
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1516427270

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1516427270
Reply with quote  #2

1516427270
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
benjamindees
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330


View Profile
June 22, 2011, 02:29:40 AM
 #2

Energy is the basis of all economic activity.  So of course the world needs more energy, not less.  And of course, until solar and wind can scale up, nuclear is the safest and cleanest large-scale source of energy, by at least an order of magnitude.

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)


View Profile
June 22, 2011, 03:01:43 AM
 #3

Nuclear Energy. Do you want more or less?
I want better

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC/BCH for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
Samantha2011
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14


View Profile
June 22, 2011, 03:09:46 AM
 #4

Nuclear Energy. Do you want more or less?
I want better
Check your PMs.  Smiley
Schleicher
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 656



View Profile
June 22, 2011, 05:42:27 AM
 #5

As long as a bunch of greedy bastards is running the power plants: no, thanks.
At least not in densely populated areas like europe.

LokeRundt
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98



View Profile
June 22, 2011, 09:46:41 AM
 #6

If the costs were internalized instead of being offloaded on taxpayers, then yes.  Let those who want/afford the true cost of nuclear energy pay for it, let the rest of us invest in energy technologies that do not threaten our species/planet

Hippy Anarchy
*shrug*
compro01
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 484



View Profile
June 22, 2011, 03:05:50 PM
 #7

more, but get rid of these damn 1st generation cobblefests and use decent designs (e.g. CANDU and others)

Tawsix
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


I have always been afraid of banks.


View Profile
June 22, 2011, 03:12:32 PM
 #8

Breeder reactors.  Many breeder reactors.  Many private breeder reactors.  Thousands of them.

realnowhereman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504



View Profile
June 22, 2011, 03:17:47 PM
 #9

Thorium reactors.  Mmmm.

When they were designing nuclear reactors, Thorium was an option.  The reason they didn't go with it?  You can't make weapons-grade plutonium in a Thorium reactor.

Other than that, Thorium reactors would be cleaner, more efficient and cheaper.  The insanity of governments and greenies is that they would rather invest in impractical and ultimately unworkable wind power than Thorium research.  When that money's wasted they will go with tested Uranium technology because that's all they'll have time for.

How I love giving them my money.

1AAZ4xBHbiCr96nsZJ8jtPkSzsg1CqhwDa
AntiVigilante
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98



View Profile
June 22, 2011, 07:56:28 PM
 #10

I love you people.

You make me proud.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
compro01
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 484



View Profile
June 22, 2011, 08:19:49 PM
 #11

Thorium reactors.  Mmmm.

When they were designing nuclear reactors, Thorium was an option.  The reason they didn't go with it?  You can't make weapons-grade plutonium in a Thorium reactor.

Other than that, Thorium reactors would be cleaner, more efficient and cheaper.  The insanity of governments and greenies is that they would rather invest in impractical and ultimately unworkable wind power than Thorium research.  When that money's wasted they will go with tested Uranium technology because that's all they'll have time for.

How I love giving them my money.

further reason why CANDU is an awesome design.

runs on lightly enriched or unenriched uranium, LWR/PWR waste, plutoniun, and even thorium.

rafval
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 18


View Profile
June 22, 2011, 08:22:37 PM
 #12

If the costs were internalized instead of being offloaded on taxpayers, then yes.  Let those who want/afford the true cost of nuclear energy pay for it, let the rest of us invest in energy technologies that do not threaten our species/planet
this is the solution and why very few are being built now, reality happened
cothoms
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14


View Profile
June 22, 2011, 08:38:51 PM
 #13

more, but get rid of these damn 1st generation cobblefests and use decent designs (e.g. CANDU and others)

Absolutely. 

The #1 issue blocking expansion of nuclear power is actually capital.  It takes so much money to get a nuke plant running, but new designs, such as modular plants, allow plug-n-play additions, so companies can use the first installment as a way to generate income to finance the next installment, and so on and so forth. 

Fear of Chernobyl 2.0 is irrational as these new power plant designs are exponentially safer.


But, as with most things in life, the path to nuclear power expansion lies with the national government.  Government will be the rudder that steers the nuclear power ship.

Not a miner.  An investor, speculator, and enthusiast.
grue
Global Moderator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058



View Profile
June 22, 2011, 10:51:19 PM
 #14

As long as a bunch of greedy bastards is running the power plants: no, thanks.
At least not in densely populated areas like europe.

nuclear plants are still safer (injures/kills less) than fossil fuel plants

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
Grant
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


View Profile
June 22, 2011, 11:15:58 PM
 #15

I want more, specifically i want more 1st generation under the government building in my country.
Jaime Frontero
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 12:15:49 AM
 #16

i want less.

my reasoning has little to do with proliferation, site leakage dangers, pollution, et alia - although i abhor them all.

actually, i approach the issue of nuclear power in the same way that i approach Bitcoin.  politically.

i see no difference in petro-based, hydro-based, hydrogen-based or nuclear-based energy infrastructures.  they are all too big, and the only possible winners in those games are huge corporations - who vie to rule the world on an equal footing with governments.  no individual can afford to refine his own oil, build her own reactor, create a dam that will power his life (when including the costs of water rights), or tinker together a high-pressure hydrogen environment at home.

i favor (and work for) solar and wind powered systems - because they can be scaled down profitably to a granular level.  yes:  large corporations can build them and sell the power - but individuals can too; and almost as effectively.

solar and wind power can be decentralized, yet retain full functionality - just as Bitcoin can be and does.

gosh that seems simple...
Schleicher
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 656



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 12:19:14 AM
 #17

nuclear plants are still safer (injures/kills less) than fossil fuel plants

Yeah, right.
Tell that to the people living near Chernobyl.

tehcodez
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 12:22:37 AM
 #18

nuclear plants are still safer (injures/kills less) than fossil fuel plants

Yeah, right.
Tell that to the people living near Chernobyl.


That was a soviet design :-)
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 12:39:26 AM
 #19

nuclear plants are still safer (injures/kills less) than fossil fuel plants

Yeah, right.
Tell that to the people living near Chernobyl.


No one who lived near Chernobyl died or contracted cancer as a direct result of their proximity.  Chernobyl was a bad accident, but contrary to popular belief, an American coal plant releases more radioactive material into the air each year than Chernobyl did.  The problem was that Chernobyl was doing it in concentration as well as would have continued doing so so long as the fire continued.  Coal contains large amounts of thorium and uranium naturally, and there is no way to get them out before burning it.  So some portion of those elements do end up in the exhaust.  I've been employed in both types of power plants in the United States, including the oldest coal fired power plant still licensed in the United States, Beckjord Power Plant, and I can honestly say that I would much rather live near a nuke plant than a coal plant.  Yes, there is a small chance that said nuke plant could be mismanaged and have an incident that harms my children; but that's a certainty if you live downwind from a coal plant.  Go tour a coal plant, nothing green grows within a quarter mile of the stack.  Nothing.

EDIT:  BTW, Chernobyl continued to produce power for another 15 years or so before being mothballed.  Only the affected reactor was closed immediately.  There is no evidence that employees that worked at Chernobyl after the incident were exposed to any more radiation than their peers at any other nuke plants.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
grue
Global Moderator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 12:46:40 AM
 #20

nuclear plants are still safer (injures/kills less) than fossil fuel plants

Yeah, right.
Tell that to the people living near Chernobyl.

yeah right, tell that to the people living near thousands of coal power plants.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Tired of annoying signature ads? Ad block for signatures
Schleicher
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 656



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 01:16:30 AM
 #21

That's right. Coal contains radioactive stuff too. That's the reason I would prefer natural gas.

TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 01:28:58 AM
 #22

And don't forget modern nuclear reactor and plant designs are way safer than the stuff that went bad in the past

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC/BCH for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
AntiVigilante
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 04:14:34 AM
 #23

I love it when anti-nuclear fanatics use the argument that I should build a reactor in my back yard, because I practically have one. It's 1500 meters away. I can see the containment building and exhaust rising above the trees. Unfortunately, it's only a research reactor.

I've never been inside the facility, but my girlfriend knows someone who works there as an operator and they arranged a tour for us this week. I hope we get to see the pool! As a nuclear hobbyist, one of my wishes is to see the Cherenkov effect before I die Wink

What's the smallest Thorium reactor possible?

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 04:30:23 AM
 #24

I love it when anti-nuclear fanatics use the argument that I should build a reactor in my back yard, because I practically have one. It's 1500 meters away. I can see the containment building and exhaust rising above the trees. Unfortunately, it's only a research reactor.

I've never been inside the facility, but my girlfriend knows someone who works there as an operator and they arranged a tour for us this week. I hope we get to see the pool! As a nuclear hobbyist, one of my wishes is to see the Cherenkov effect before I die Wink

What's the smallest Thorium reactor possible?

Possible I don't know.  Smallest practical is about 14 Kw thermal, which is tiny.  There is no theoretical minimum for an energy amp thorium reactor.  But the reactor size itself is rarely the issue.  It's usually the containment and shield mass that is the largest expense, which is why civil reactors favor such huge economies of scale. 

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 04:32:59 AM
 #25

I wonder how long until mobiles will carry their own little plants

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC/BCH for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 04:36:05 AM
 #26

I wonder how long until mobiles will carry their own little plants

A long time.  People still freak out about the electromagnetic radiation that cell phones emit under normal operation.  Neutronic radiation actually merits such panic.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
AntiVigilante
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 04:50:28 AM
 #27

I wonder how long until mobiles will carry their own little plants

A long time.  People still freak out about the electromagnetic radiation that cell phones emit under normal operation.  Neutronic radiation actually merits such panic.

It's not the radiation. It's the proximity. Frankly, in exchange for increased connectivity and communication havoc opportunities going the way Marie Curie isn't too shabby.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 05:41:10 AM
 #28

People already keep those things packed with acid waiting to explode resting by their crotches; if they were at least as safe and didn't cost nor weight much more than regular batteries i wouldn't expect there to be much issue with public aceptance, specially if pushed by big companies with intense followers like Apple and Nokia

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC/BCH for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
dannickherpderp
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 33


View Profile
June 24, 2011, 05:32:31 PM
 #29

nuclear plants are still safer (injures/kills less) than fossil fuel plants

Yeah, right.
Tell that to the people living near Chernobyl.


World health orginzation puts total deaths from chernobyl accident at 4000, with 31 deaths happening directly because of the meltdown.  Deaths in mine collapses as well as black lung and related conditions are orders of magnitude higher in the fossil fuel industry.  Plus the chernobyl reactor was of a TERRIBLE design as you learn in any introduction to engineering course.
lemonginger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


firstbits: 121vnq


View Profile
June 24, 2011, 08:07:03 PM
 #30

The problem with nuclear energy (besides the scale issues, of which I agree with Jaime Frontero on) is that we have to figure out a secure way to store the waste that is beyond any time scale we can reasonably envision. Because of this, we essentially are creating incredibly toxic management problems for societies that we have no idea of. I believe it is an unfair burden for future generations to have to deal with, when we do not know what their capacity to deal with it will be, just so we can have more energy now.
AntiVigilante
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98



View Profile
June 24, 2011, 08:18:02 PM
 #31

The problem with nuclear energy (besides the scale issues, of which I agree with Jaime Frontero on) is that we have to figure out a secure way to store the waste that is beyond any time scale we can reasonably envision. Because of this, we essentially are creating incredibly toxic management problems for societies that we have no idea of. I believe it is an unfair burden for future generations to have to deal with, when we do not know what their capacity to deal with it will be, just so we can have more energy now.

Thorium is wasteless. It uses Uranium as a catalyst.

Proposal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11541.msg162881#msg162881
Inception: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/296
Goal: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12536.0
Means: Code, donations, and brutal criticism. I've got a thick skin. 1Gc3xCHAzwvTDnyMW3evBBr5qNRDN3DRpq
compro01
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 484



View Profile
June 24, 2011, 08:26:02 PM
 #32

The problem with nuclear energy (besides the scale issues, of which I agree with Jaime Frontero on) is that we have to figure out a secure way to store the waste that is beyond any time scale we can reasonably envision. Because of this, we essentially are creating incredibly toxic management problems for societies that we have no idea of. I believe it is an unfair burden for future generations to have to deal with, when we do not know what their capacity to deal with it will be, just so we can have more energy now.

no, we don't.  We just need to not be idiots about it.  long lived waste components are fuel for different types of reactors, which then give much shorter term waste, which would only need to be stored 200 years, which is much easier to get right.

MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708



View Profile
June 24, 2011, 08:53:48 PM
 #33

The problem with nuclear energy (besides the scale issues, of which I agree with Jaime Frontero on) is that we have to figure out a secure way to store the waste that is beyond any time scale we can reasonably envision.

Waste storage is a red herring.  These issues have been solved, but the US doesn't do these kinds of things, and instead chooses the path of long term storage, because this waste is still reactor fuel in it's own right and the US has no economicly viable uranium mines of it's own, and presently depends upon favorable political relations with Canada and Austrailia to supply both the military and civil needs of the United States.  The long term storage facility concept thus becomes a reserve that could be drawn upon should either of those supply source become cut off indefinately.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708



View Profile
June 24, 2011, 08:55:00 PM
 #34

The problem with nuclear energy (besides the scale issues, of which I agree with Jaime Frontero on) is that we have to figure out a secure way to store the waste that is beyond any time scale we can reasonably envision. Because of this, we essentially are creating incredibly toxic management problems for societies that we have no idea of. I believe it is an unfair burden for future generations to have to deal with, when we do not know what their capacity to deal with it will be, just so we can have more energy now.

Thorium is wasteless. It uses Uranium as a catalyst.

That's not quite true.  Thorium does have some hazardous waste products, but none that are nearly as long lived or as hazardous as plutonium itself.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
em3rgentOrdr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


View Profile WWW
June 24, 2011, 09:26:00 PM
 #35

Only in a statist society could you have a government build a nuclear reactor directly on the coast of a highly-population region with a history of earthquakes and tsunamis.  No, the inhabitants were not included in the decision.  An anarcho-capitatlist insurance company would never agree to sign off on the construction of that nuclear reactor since there would be 10's of millions of potential claimants.  Governments like to pretend that they are some benevolent insurance force protecting everyone.  But since there is no legal liability for the government, and since all their money is stolen from the people via taxes in the first place, they continue to engage in such risky behavior.  I don't have to point out all those floods in the mississippi river and new orleans, and all those helpless flood victims being "protected" by the army corps of engineers...

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
billyjoeallen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980


Hide your women


View Profile WWW
June 25, 2011, 03:59:43 AM
 #36

safety records, in order to be meaningful, need to be measured in deaths per terawatthour generated. By that standard, nuclear is much safer than coal. You need to compare indirect deaths which means including uranium miners and coal miners in the mortality calculations. 

insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
Perof
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14


Snap


View Profile
June 25, 2011, 04:50:37 AM
 #37

More efficient and hotter.

New stuff. Out with the old in with the new.

Also recycling
Pages: 1 2 [All]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!