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Author Topic: Bitcoin Bundle: Feedback for Bitcoiners  (Read 1513 times)
ffssixtynine (OP)
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May 18, 2013, 07:54:43 AM
 #1

I wanted to share some of the feedback we've had for the bundle. One of my reasons for doing it was to establish the lay of the land outside of the Bitcoin community. I'm not too surprised at the results but they are interesting non the less. I've started a blog where I want to address our feedback and I'd like this forum's feedback to do so.

We're at 260 orders and approx 10 BTC. This was the lower limit of my expectations over the two week period so I'm pretty pleased. However, one key aim was to get discussion or at least mention in more of the game press than we have, so I have work to do on that.

Bitcoin Community
Good level of support from Bitcoin sites and Reddit. I can't think of any serious negatives that have come up. Thanks all, and please keep spreading the word!

The Humble Bundle made much more from one donation from either Tux or Satoshi Dice than we've made in total, even though we're Bitcoin only. Of course, we do understand why and have all been part of the bundle previously. Just saying Wink Although everyone will be at the conference right now (wish I was!).

I'm considering adding a top user donation list and also a mining pool list. Users could choose to associate themselves with a mining pool. I think this would be 'very Bitcoin'. Thoughts?

Gamer Community
I'd say the majority of coverage we've seen has been pretty negative, with a few bright spots. Our first bundle is older games that a lot of people have but this doesn't seem to be about that. Bitcoin generally has a lot of negative comments which I'll bullet point below. You'll be familar with these but I've put them in rough order of importance as I've seen it (very rough).

  • Bitcoins are too expensive. People simply can't work with a $100+ coin. This urgently needs addressing IMHO.
  • Bitcoin is a scam or ponzi scheme. They're only used to buy drugs.
  • Bitcoins are impossible to get hold of.
  • Bitcoin prices keep changing. They keep crashing.
  • Bitcoin is a waste of time. Why should I bother using it?
  • I don't trust anyone accepting Bitcoin. They are all scam artists and thieves.
  • I can't just tell my credit card company if it's gone wrong.
  • Bitcoin is just a way to avoid tax.

Developer Community
Mostly negative comments as with gamers, but some people have expressed an interest which is good. The negative comments are very much to do with people not understanding them incidentally; I've seen few valid points.

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ffssixtynine (OP)
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May 21, 2013, 10:54:45 AM
 #2

Not had time to write my feedback properly on the blog yet, but this is a really good and not untypical post:

Quote
Jesus christ $13 for one bit penny? Fuck that, I can buy a brand new game with $13! That is WAY too expensive for American consumers.

If they want that new currency to actually matter, they better bring down that exchange rate significantly

http://indiegames.com/2013/05/the_new_indie_bundle_with_a_bi.html#comment-903751392

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May 21, 2013, 10:55:50 AM
 #3

Talk in mBTC terms then!
kiko
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May 21, 2013, 01:14:44 PM
 #4

I think you are right. This sentiment is extremely common. See the ATM CNBC video linked here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208179.0

Her first impression is that she is not getting her money's worth because what she got starts with two zeros. It's as simple as that. No maths is being done here, just a visceral reaction to zeros.

We all know that we are going to have to switch to mBTC pretty soon, but the problem will get worse before it gets better.  Maybe we can set a date and make a big public push to get all related tools and prices to update display code by then. This is the kind of thing where the Foundation should be pivotal, cat herding if you will.
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May 21, 2013, 01:47:15 PM
 #5

You have probably seen the video of Kirk Hope in NZ http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/kirk-hope-bitcoin-video-5428259

He says Bitcoins went up to $300, and who would want to buy a cup of coffee for $300?

- I realise he doesn't understand, wrong facts etc, but it still goes with the theme of thinking many zero's.
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May 21, 2013, 02:02:46 PM
 #6

I agree that mBtc should be used as unit as soon as possible.

Most of the problems you have mentioned are psychological problems (the number issue)  or educational problems (people thinking it's a ponzi).
So I guess it's more explaining by persons that people trust and neat youtube videos/guides that we need.
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May 21, 2013, 02:09:23 PM
 #7

Quote
    Bitcoins are too expensive. People simply can't work with a $100+ coin. This urgently needs addressing IMHO.
nothing we can do about that. the only way is to change the default unit from BTC to mBTC.

Quote
    Bitcoin is a scam or ponzi scheme. They're only used to buy drugs.
the bitcoin bundle is going to change that, isn't it? Tongue

Quote
    Bitcoins are impossible to get hold of.
bitinstant

Quote
    Bitcoin prices keep changing. They keep crashing.
it's been pretty stable for the last few weeks

Quote
    I can't just tell my credit card company if it's gone wrong.
can you call your credit card company if you paid with cash?

Quote
    Bitcoin is just a way to avoid tax.
if you don't want to pay tax, no problem. good luck converting your bitcoins back to fiat without reporting to the IRS. also, you're obligated to pay taxes on all bitcoin transactions, it's just not easily enforced. same as cash.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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inge
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May 21, 2013, 02:14:17 PM
 #8


Her first impression is that she is not getting her money's worth because what she got starts with two zeros. It's as simple as that. No maths is being done here, just a visceral reaction to zeros.


Well, my experience is that most American are not used to the decimal system. In Europe we have the metric system based on decimal system and children are used to it at the age of 8. I don't mean it as a criticism...it is something to think about if you want to improve Bitcoin awareness in the US Smiley
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May 21, 2013, 02:17:37 PM
 #9

1. The Forbes article on living on bitcoin had some insane prices for cupcakes and the like. It didn't help to my mind.

2. Mass adoption really does need a currency unit which makes sense in a retail context. It would also enable people to understand at a glance if Btc values were insane.

Bitcoin: 16i8sQWjZo3QPhhSfWupJff5PtwTxxpRJJ
Ripple:  rL7mRCDYBXsVSM2obdvEjwft5fPUmxv3ra
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May 21, 2013, 02:20:10 PM
 #10

I assumed that gamers were smarter than that, they come off as sounding unintelligent as if they spend all day playing gamesor are 13. Seriously? It's embarrasing in a way. I think the issue is that most of those gameshave been in bundles already. Want to put on slickdeals?

ok
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May 21, 2013, 02:25:14 PM
Last edit: May 21, 2013, 02:56:31 PM by oakpacific
 #11

I would strongly suggest anyone who doesn't have a clue to stay away from Bitcoin, not everyone can get used to a life of financial freedom and independence, you need to be mentally prepared.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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May 21, 2013, 02:52:52 PM
 #12

Bitcoins are too expensive. People simply can't work with a $100+ coin.
Holy shit. Are people (even gamers) that stupid? Sad

Well, I guess there's just more work to do to properly inform the world.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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May 21, 2013, 02:55:27 PM
 #13

I would strongly anyone who doesn't have a clue to stay away from Bitcoin, not everyone can get used to a life of financial freedom and independence, you need to be mentally prepared.

I think you accidentally that sentence.
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May 21, 2013, 03:31:42 PM
 #14

Gamer Community
I'd say the majority of coverage we've seen has been pretty negative, with a few bright spots. Our first bundle is older games that a lot of people have but this doesn't seem to be about that. Bitcoin generally has a lot of negative comments which I'll bullet point below. You'll be familar with these but I've put them in rough order of importance as I've seen it (very rough).

  • Bitcoins are too expensive. People simply can't work with a $100+ coin. This urgently needs addressing IMHO.
  • Bitcoin is a scam or ponzi scheme. They're only used to buy drugs.
  • Bitcoins are impossible to get hold of.
  • Bitcoin prices keep changing. They keep crashing.
  • Bitcoin is a waste of time. Why should I bother using it?
  • I don't trust anyone accepting Bitcoin. They are all scam artists and thieves.
  • I can't just tell my credit card company if it's gone wrong.
  • Bitcoin is just a way to avoid tax.

I agree with the other posters about mBTC. That's important.
But the third bullet point in the above list might be even more important. If something new cannot be done easily, we subconsciously just think of it as a poor risk/reward and don't bother. People don't want to spend hours setting up software and then days fiddling around to send money, and then do an exchange, and then worry about security ... it's a huge upfront commitment. And then at the end it might not work, it might be a scam, I might get ripped off, get a bad rate, stuck with digital funny money I can't use.

It needs to be easier for the non-believers to *try* Bitcoin out. Once they've tried it, they might get hooked.

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ffssixtynine (OP)
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May 21, 2013, 10:03:07 PM
 #15

I assumed that gamers were smarter than that, they come off as sounding unintelligent as if they spend all day playing gamesor are 13. Seriously? It's embarrasing in a way. I think the issue is that most of those gameshave been in bundles already. Want to put on slickdeals?

The games themselves are older games so that is always a factor. Bitcoin needs wider option for any of us to put newer games up in something like this, but the humble bundle accept bitcoins.

The comments I posted were not just from gamers, I'm including developers here as well.

Grue, it's not that I haven't thought the same things as you, but that doesn't actually help. People's sentiments are important and should not be dismissed. We have to work to change those sentiments.

BitInstant is only available in a few places. In the UK and several other countries, it's really tough.

I also missed an item out - the user flow to buy from Coinbase from your wallet is nasty, even worse in our case as you set the price yourself. I'm not blaming Coinbase here by the way, it's just easier to point your phone at it then send via your computer. Several users have had problems and made silly mistakes sending coins.

mBTC - this only works if it's a standard. It does not work if we say mBTC and BitInstant and other sites all talk BTC. Let alone that our Coinbase transaction page is in BTC.

To make it a standard, it needs Coinbase, BitPay et al to use them.

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May 21, 2013, 10:51:49 PM
 #16

  • 1. Bitcoins are too expensive. People simply can't work with a $100+ coin. This urgently needs addressing IMHO.
  • 2. Bitcoin is a scam or ponzi scheme. They're only used to buy drugs.
  • 3. Bitcoins are impossible to get hold of.
  • 4. Bitcoin prices keep changing. They keep crashing.
  • 5. Bitcoin is a waste of time. Why should I bother using it?
  • 6. I don't trust anyone accepting Bitcoin. They are all scam artists and thieves.
  • 7. I can't just tell my credit card company if it's gone wrong.
  • 8. Bitcoin is just a way to avoid tax.
rebuttle:
1.paying $30 for 1000 game gold is not a better deal then paying $120 for 1 Bitcoin. atleast in a few months time your going to get more for your money. game gold is bought but cant really be transferred back into fiat. plus you cant use game gold to buy t-shirts, fast food, a LCD TV, etc etc etc. just because you are use to receiving many 'coins' ingame for less fiat doesn't make bitcoin expensive because your only getting 1. but then again $120 gets you 100,000,000 satoshi's.
2a. read a dictionary for the words ponzi, scam. read the bitcoin white paper and read the 4 years of bitcoin history then come back to me. dont make lazy assumptions.
2b. bitcoinstore.com, foodler.com.. enough said
3. localbitcoins, bitinstant, mining, plus much more that can be listed.. there are more access points per town/county/state for bitcoins then there are places to get foreign currency. Also to add i have bitcoins so if you ever want some, come to me. (meaning you the person having the conversation with the un-initiated)
4.the HIGH price keeps changing as that is what is known as the speculative price but the LOW, which is wholesale true value (minimum price people would sell at, is on a smooth rise.

5. no one is forcing you. enjoy your game, spending fiat instead of earning.
6. google bank ponzi, bank robberies, bank scams,... now compare result numbers to bitcoin.
7. you cant tell your credit card company if your cash transaction went worng either
8. so is offering someone a couple beers for helping fix your car or paint a housewall. but beer is not only used for tax evasion either.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
ffssixtynine (OP)
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May 30, 2013, 04:07:36 PM
 #17

Sales figures for those interested.

http://blog.thebitcoinbundle.com/post/51726115646/sales-numbers-and-extension
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May 30, 2013, 04:20:49 PM
 #18

In my opinion, the problem here is in the terminology and this is creating a psychological barrier to adoption. What does a person think of when they think of a coin? They think of small subdivisional denomination of a larger whole. The immediate connotation of the term "Bitcoin" is not one of huge value, so when you compare that to the actual exchange rate value, the first impression is naturally going to be one of incredulousness at the extreme price. I really think we need to consider updating the terminology to bring it more into line with what you're able to actually buy with a single Bitcoin, and that doesn't mean calling smaller denominations "milliBitcoins", but rather retargeting the name "Bitcoin" at the smaller denomination and maybe calling the larger values BitDollars or something.
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May 30, 2013, 04:42:56 PM
 #19

Bitcoins are too expensive. People simply can't work with a $100+ coin.
Holy shit. Are people (even gamers) that stupid? Sad

Well, I guess there's just more work to do to properly inform the world.

There definitely is more work, but I do think switching to mBTC would be a great move psychologically for BTC.

I've talked to a lot of people about it, and I think it would be a lot easier for someone with little knowledge of it to start small with <$100 and have what they perceive as a few coins.  Especially with such a new, high-risk technology.
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May 30, 2013, 06:52:12 PM
 #20

If everyone understood it and it was easy to get the price would be much higher. So let them complain. Those who take the time to understand can enjoy the rewards.

Everyone else will get it once it has been dumbed down and made accessible for them. Whoever does that will become rich.
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