Increasing Block size lowers the value of Bitcoin

[BitcoinBarrel]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

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[monsterer2]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

Ever increasing the block size sends transaction fees towards 0 at the limit.

[Enkeci]

Many people are seeing Bitcoin as a way to easily make money, to understand someone exactly what Bitcoin offers need to look over the price, in 2017 to send 0.001 is required to add as fee the 50% of the tx amount, if the Increasing Block size lowers the value of Bitcoin, the increasing of fees can lower bitcoin users..

[skyline247]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

The problem with your analogy is just because fees are high does not mean the price will go up or that is why the price is up. Think of it this way yes when fees are high it means there is more demand, but also people will stop using Bitcoin if the fees stay high and the supply will go up and demand drops and the price drops. We need a measure to keep fees lower in order to assure that everyone can continue using Bitcoin not only rich people or big drug dealers who can afford to pay high fees. Hope this makes sense!

[xskl0]

I believe that force your costumers to pay in order to open a "lightning" channel making transactions with 0 or very low fee impossible lowers the value of Bitcoin because no one will want to use it   

[25hashcoin]

Complete opposite. Increased velocity of on chain transactions is directly correlated to increased value. Off chain solutions retard growth of value.

Source: https://nchain.com/app/uploads/2017/07/SegWit-and-the-illusion-of-scale.pdf

[5trade]

perhaps, op, but having small blocks/slow transactions also lowers the value of bitcoin. i think the key is balance here.

[ranih]

Complete opposite. Increased velocity of on chain transactions is directly correlated to increased value. Off chain solutions retard growth of value.

Source: https://nchain.com/app/uploads/2017/07/SegWit-and-the-illusion-of-scale.pdf

You're probably right in a long-term view. Currently, it's hard to see any correlation between changes in the protocol and Bitcoin value...

[jonald_fyookball]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

Wrong thinknig, sorry.

Transaction fees need to be low because of substitute goods.  Who the fuck is gonna pay $10 or even $5 a tx??  Not me.  I'll just use another coin.

Big blocks are going to allow small fee tx, but loads of them... leading to higher prices.   You'll see.

[iamTom123]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

The problem with your analogy is just because fees are high does not mean the price will go up or that is why the price is up. Think of it this way yes when fees are high it means there is more demand, but also people will stop using Bitcoin if the fees stay high and the supply will go up and demand drops and the price drops. We need a measure to keep fees lower in order to assure that everyone can continue using Bitcoin not only rich people or big drug dealers who can afford to pay high fees. Hope this makes sense!

What happened was that because there was a huge congestion the fees astronomically surge because everyone wants to be prioritized...so in this case the fees came about because of the increasing demand for the service. Now, with higher fees for the transactions there will come a time when users would be complaining because this is not what Bitcoin is all about and in this case it can dampen the demand somehow. This is actually just a cycle. Hopefully, by next year there will be less chances for a congestion and we can experience better fees.

[mobnepal]

Increasing block size will only make transaction faster and cheaper, average time between two blocks will always be 10 minutes even after increasing the block size so this might not have any significant change in demand for bitcoin. Miners might earn less from transaction fee but block reward will be enough for them to remain in profit.

I don't find any connection between block size and price of bitcoin, when bitcoin transactions will be cheaper and faster demand for bitcoin might increase significantly and new investors might get interested in bitcoin that will increase price and marketcap.

[Mandoy]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

You are right with your second statement but wrong on the first statement. Your comparison between the increased blocksize and increasing offices in a town is not applicable. It means that the analogy is wrong. The purpose of increasing the blocksize of in mining bitcoin is because the current cannot handle the transactions in the mempool. It means that there is a need to upgrade to increase the speed of transactions. Increasing the blocksize does not lower the scarcity of bitcoin since the amount of bitcoin is fixed at 21 million.

[pooya87]

things aren't as easy as "increase or not increase" block size as it may seem. there are a lot of issues with either of them.

a small block size with no scaling solution (meaning the old bitcoin without SegWit) means higher fees which increase with increasing demand and at some point it will rise over the tolerance of users who will stop using bitcoin and demand will fall.

a bigger block size specially if it is too big, or faster blocks like what altcoins have means a much much bigger blockchain size, lower number of nodes because there is a need for much stronger machine to store, download, load up UTXOs in ram,... and people are currently struggling with the current size as it is.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

they used to be proportional to price. when it was $10 the fees were 0.01BTC then it was lowered and lowered and at some point blocks became full and fees stopped being proportional to price and started directly being linked to block size.
and as i mentioned above, there is a tolerance for fees. people won't pay higher than certain amounts and that can potentially be a big block over the increasing adoption.

with that said hopefully with SegWit capacity increase and the additional options this issue is solved for years to come and maybe in 5-10 years with the advancements in technology we can think of additional solutions for that time and be good until then.

[Schuyler]

Increasing the block size would only mean that there will be more space to accomodate more transactions. You can compare it to widening the road to accomodate more vehicles to lessen congestion. That wouldn’t hurt the value as it leads to more transactions with faster confirmations, which would then lead to higher usage rate of bitcoin.

[Wind_FURY]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

But the value is derived from Bitcoin the asset which is limited in supply, and not Bitcoin blocks.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

No, it just means there are a lot of people competing to in make their transaction included in a block by paying a higher fee. The price of Bitcoin comes from demand from the coin itself.

[Beerwizzard]

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin.

Nope. Transaction fee only depend on the number of current tranactoins, not on the current bitcoin value. 1 BTC = 1 BTC and that is the price of bitcoin for the network. Due to uncreasing bitcoin price counting in USD the transaction also increases and increasin the block size will only lower the transaction.

[BitFinnese]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

I do not think you can compare Bitcoin and real state, if so then, think of a place where improvement and development  took place, then we can say that having to develop the block size of bitcoin means increase in price of it since with block size increase, there will be an easy access to the transaction and fast confirmation of transaction.  A place where access is easy and transportation is convenient gives that place a higher value.

[Wind_FURY]

I believe the OP is just confused with how bigger or smaller blocks affect Bitcoin. It affects only the fees but not the price of Bitcoin as an asset itself.

[tiger2monkey]

Block size increase => Can handle more transactions per block => Lower fees => More people will use it => Increase price and stability

[JohnBitCo]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

I dont think that Bitcoin transaction fee are proportional to the price of Bitcoins as more or high fee does not determine the demand of bitcoin. Bitcoin tx can increased many more times with no tx fees even , because the blockchain size determine the tx and there is no collaboration of bitcoin demand with transaction fee.  The bitcoin demand is determined by the usage of bitcoin and its limited supply will make bitcoin price very high in the near future. Increasing blocksize rather makes the transaction confirmation time a lot faster.

[Yuhee]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

I dont think that Bitcoin transaction fee are proportional to the price of Bitcoins as more or high fee does not determine the demand of bitcoin. Bitcoin tx can increased many more times with no tx fees even , because the blockchain size determine the tx and there is no collaboration of bitcoin demand with transaction fee.  The bitcoin demand is determined by the usage of bitcoin and its limited supply will make bitcoin price very high in the near future. Increasing blocksize rather makes the transaction confirmation time a lot faster.

Well for me i pay .001 always in my transaction just to be sure that my payments would be recognize. Because i see many trends that they paid some fee and it said 84hours to confirm. I've been paying this fee ever since the start of price increase. But for some, they downloaded the bitcoin core for better sending of payment. I agree that the fee increase as btc increase but i think we just have to accept that that is one of its chanhges maybe it wont be forever that the fees would be that high but at least the team is making something to address this issue.

[odolvlobo]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

The flaw in you logic is that demand can be high even if fees are low. I apologize if this has already been pointed out.

[no0dlepunk]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

The problem with your analogy is just because fees are high does not mean the price will go up or that is why the price is up. Think of it this way yes when fees are high it means there is more demand, but also people will stop using Bitcoin if the fees stay high and the supply will go up and demand drops and the price drops. We need a measure to keep fees lower in order to assure that everyone can continue using Bitcoin not only rich people or big drug dealers who can afford to pay high fees. Hope this makes sense!

Well mate, I have to agree with skyline247 because increasing the blockchain size will invite more to use bitcoins. What BitcoinBarrel was saying is that when more offices are available in the middle of the town, the scarcity will lower; He had disregarded the possibility of people from the neighboring towns would consider renting those office spaces too.

The right vision for bitcoins is to be able to use it conveniently, transfer funds fast, and be used by an average Joe. Ordinary people doesn't care about blockchain anyway, all they care about is sending money hassle free... like Visa and Mastercard.

[HasHe]

I don't understand how you came to this conclusion.We earlier faced a huge problem in bitcoin network due to high transaction fee which was mainly due to limited block size of 1 MB.Even the problem grew to that extent that some stared saying that people would nstart leaving bitcoin network due to high fee and they would switch to some other altcoin which provides speed transactions at very low cost.That was the main reason for increasing the block size to 2 MB and it would only help for the progress of bitcoin and its increase in price.

[illyiller]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

The flaw in you logic is that demand can be high even if fees are low. I apologize if this has already been pointed out.

The OP is coming to the wrong conclusion. It's not about correlation to demand for BTC (reflected by price). The issue of transaction fees regards what you point out: that there can be high demand for BTC transactions if fees are low (or if transactions are free). Transactions also function as highly secure distributed storage on the blockchain. Of course there will be perpetual demand for that at cheap/free prices!

So the real problem with increasing block size is that by keeping fees cheap and perpetually allowing the blockchain to bloat, it becomes increasingly difficult for most node operators to continue running full nodes which secure their bitcoins. This is a threat to decentralization, but not necessarily to demand for BTC.

[Sithara007]

I don't understand how you came to this conclusion.We earlier faced a huge problem in bitcoin network due to high transaction fee which was mainly due to limited block size of 1 MB.Even the problem grew to that extent that some stared saying that people would nstart leaving bitcoin network due to high fee and they would switch to some other altcoin which provides speed transactions at very low cost.That was the main reason for increasing the block size to 2 MB and it would only help for the progress of bitcoin and its increase in price.

High fee is exactly the reason why the altcoin share in the crypto-coin market capitalization rose from less than 10% to around 53% as of now. Else, how can you explain a brand new altcoin such as Bitcoin Cash having a market cap of $15 billion?

[Mister1k]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

The flaw in you logic is that demand can be high even if fees are low. I apologize if this has already been pointed out.

As I noticed the bitcoin price and fees, transaction fees also increased again in online wallet. When compare the fees two weeks before now bit oin transaction fees is doubled than that time. I expect wallet providers to reduce that or we have to switch to desktop wallet.

[lionheart78]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

The flaw in you logic is that demand can be high even if fees are low. I apologize if this has already been pointed out.

As I noticed the bitcoin price and fees, transaction fees also increased again in online wallet. When compare the fees two weeks before now bit oin transaction fees is doubled than that time. I expect wallet providers to reduce that or we have to switch to desktop wallet.

And I do not think that higher fee means higher bitcoin.  It can be the other way around since the value of transaction fee relies on the Bitcoin and USD exchange.  When it comes to blocksize, I do not thing that higher blocksize will make bitcoin price less because of the lower transaction fee.  Since the reason for the lower transaction fee is the lower satoshi charge on every byte sent.  It can attract more users since it is cheaper to transact bitcoin and in fact can give higher demand which means higher price of Bitcoin.

[sasaku bitbit]

In my opinion that to develop the block size of the bitcoin means price increases it because with the increase in the size of the blocks and then with these entrepreneurs price bitcoin can count in USD transactions also increased in size blocks bitcoin transactions then it will decrease thus increasing the block size decreases the value of Bitcoin

[cryp24x]

Definitely not!! I cannot see how transaction fee makes bitcoin price higher.  In fact if transaction fee goes up many supporter whines about it and thus making this supporter turn their back on bitcoin when they whining is not heed.

[Jet Cash]

perhaps, op, but having small blocks/slow transactions also lowers the value of bitcoin. i think the key is balance here.

Small blocks and slow transactions are not the same thing. Doubling block size, but not waiting until they are full before generating them, is wasteful, and doesn't really help. What is needed is faster transaction processing, and with a 10 minute average block generation time, it can never be fast. Eventually block generation will have to be below one minute in my opinion. Why don't we try to move towards it now. Waiting a few years means that blocksize will have to be reduced, and that will introduce more complications.

[squatter]

Definitely not!! I cannot see how transaction fee makes bitcoin price higher.  In fact if transaction fee goes up many supporter whines about it and thus making this supporter turn their back on bitcoin when they whining is not heed.

There's been a loud minority crying about fees for years now. Given the community's reaction to Bitcoin XT, Classic and Unlimited, it became clear that attempting to force a coercive hard fork on users would fail. It still looks like most users, services and miners (besides Bitmain) support Core, smaller blocks and Segwit, but Bitcoin Cash (as a non-coercive hard fork) was a smart way to go about this.

Using market manipulation and Bitmain's hashpower, the backers of Bitcoin Cash can give the appearance of organic adoption and market demand of BCH, whereas the backers of Bitcoin XT, Classic and Unlimited couldn't do this.

[DoublerHunter]

I don't think that the block size increase will lower the value of bitcoin because the result for me, will become opposite and the value of bitcoin will increase as the block size increase too because it will allow to have a smoother flow of transaction because of the increased in the block size so there will be more people using bitcoin and it will reflect to the price for having a pump.

[severaldetails]

I am not sure if the price of bitcoin is really connected to blocksize or hashrate anymore.
The profit of miners surely is.
But what controls the bitcoin price is the demand.
And the demand comes from investor at the moment.
One reason for the big rise of bitcoin price is that the miners can not produce new bitcoins as fast as the market is asking for it.
With bigger blocksize or higher hashrates you only make the transaction times smaller or the fees lower. But that is not what an investor really cares about.

[squatter]

I am not sure if the price of bitcoin is really connected to blocksize or hashrate anymore.
The profit of miners surely is.
But what controls the bitcoin price is the demand.
And the demand comes from investor at the moment.

One consideration here: mining is a form of investment. And given the massive overhead to enter the sector at this point, it is a long term investment. If you are investing into BTC mining, you are bullish on the price, long term, and you are a holder (beyond selling what is necessary to cover overhead).

One reason for the big rise of bitcoin price is that the miners can not produce new bitcoins as fast as the market is asking for it.
With bigger blocksize or higher hashrates you only make the transaction times smaller or the fees lower. But that is not what an investor really cares about.

I think investors are less concerned about fees, as long as increasing fees aren't detrimental to organic adoption and network growth. There was a lot of fear mongering going around that say fees have been detrimental, but I think it's clear by now that there is strong demand for BTC regardless of past or present fees.

[drwhobox]

Increasing the Block size = more transactions to be fitted on a block. alot would be using bitcoin again due to fast transaction from a person to another guy on the blockchain. for me, Bigger block = stable price

[Granxis]

Today I made two transfers with Bitcoin Cash, I believe the money transfers will be approved very quickly, but it is over one hour is not approved, Fork did not reflect on us. Failed fork.

[illyiller]

Today I made two transfers with Bitcoin Cash, I believe the money transfers will be approved very quickly, but it is over one hour is not approved, Fork did not reflect on us. Failed fork.

Remember, even with Bitcoin, when significant hash power is added to the network (bringing expected block time below 10 minutes on average), there are times when a block isn't found for an hour -- even 2-3 hours. Blocks being published occurs in a Poisson distribution, meaning that there is no guarantee that a block will be found every ten minutes. You might wait an hour for one block, after which another 2-3 blocks will be found in another 10 minutes.

I haven't paid close attention to Bitcoin Cash difficulty adjustments, but I know it has adjusted quite a lot. With the significant increase in profitability, I'd have assumed the network would be pretty stable by now.

[The One]

Just think about the Blockchain as high demand realestate. If there is an office building right in the middle of town, and all the local businesses want to rent office space; creating more offices will just lower the scarcity.

Transaction fees are proportional to the price of Bitcoin. If the fees rise due to increased transactions then that means demand is high, thus increasing the price/btc.

WHAT!!