Suprnova.cc scam?!

[francescocmazza]

Hello everyone.
I did many many tests with suprnova pool on different coins and in many many rounds.
In very many occasions I found that there was something wrong with the coins credited to me.
In many occasions I saw round completion to go much above 300 percent and my expected credit to drop insanely. On several occasions I have seen my expected coins to drop completely to zero, nullifying all my contribution. On one occasion I purchased massive hashing power from Nicehash (equivalent to 120 USD) and got credited no coins at all. From Nicehash no problem at all was detected when submitting my shares in all occasions. Just the same as when I bought hashing power and all went fine with suprnova. Always used the same settings.
One time when I had bought some amount of hashing power I saw again the same pattern of my expected revenue drop to zero I sent a mail to suprnova support. I never received any reply, but all of a sudden I saw all my submitted shares of that round disappear from suprnova counter.

I trusted this pool as it was the top most suggested by Nicehash. I have written to suprnova support many times asking for explanations, assuming these were errors of some kind.i never received any kind of reply from them.

Here are some conclusions I arrived to:
1. If I'm not mistaken with pplns it should be impossible to get 0 revenue out submitting many many shares. Maybe it could drop to 0.000001, but there's no way I could get from something like 0.5 expected zec to absolute 0 unless I got some kind of massive error.
2. There's no way one round can last days and go over 500 percent complete. I've suffered from these many many times.
3. I've compared my results with other pools and never registered any similar behavior, not even slightly close.
4. The fact that I'm not receiving any reply from the admin to my many questions and help requests is too strange. Some of the bugs I have experienced are massive. I was a very good contributor to suprnova, often generating over 10 percent of the entire pool hash. Having that amount of hashing power disappear into thin air seems too strange to me to be an error.

If anyone wants I have all the necessary information and proofs from Nicehash proving my statements here. I keep hoping to receive a reply from the admin of suprnova proving that this whole thing was a huge misunderstanding or an error. Since over 2 weeks have passed since I started asking for explanations and I received no reply, I am forced to believe I have been stolen from suprnova.cc

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[sir_blacks]

when you say "I saw round completion to go much above 300 percent" that is call 'Round Variance'

What's the 'Round Variance'?
'Round Variance' is a calculation made taking into account the block difficulty and the effort already made by the miners to find a block, each time a block is found the round is restarted. A 100% variance means that the expected effort to find a block was already reached, but it's not deterministic, in other words, it's not guaranteed that at 100% a block will be found. The process of finding blocks is very similar to a lottery, where each miner makes several bets in order to try to crack the hash code, thus sometimes when we are lucky blocks are found early with just a few tries (before 100%) or unlucky (after 100%).

soo "The process of finding blocks is very similar to a lottery" aka high % 'Round Variance' bad luck now it depend how pool it is set or make to work & for this only a admin can say it or give details

when you say "I have seen my expected coins to drop completely to zero" that it happen because your portion (%) of share vs all share found it get verry small let say 10,000 share vs 1,041,915,720 aka you = to 0 what it can be happen let say on a Round Variance ~480% & your income it will be 0

well technical is not a scam but is a perfect scheme to rob miner abuse 'Round Variance' system aka you can mine full 12 hour 120% variance you stop miner various reason (shutdown pc, restart, update so, driver ... move to other pool ... ) & you not start mining agen BUT round it goo further to let say 400% well all your time will be invalidated, nullify to 0 or to very very very few small pay

low % round variance it can happen to aka let say 20% & amount of payment it can be low or high depend by h power what you have but usual all it get some payment vs high round when many can get nothing

from what i understend high variance it can happen, is fine but when that is in row soo many time over & over then is a problem & only admin of pool can say what is wrong but usual none of them will replay or they will say bad luck ... we are sorry for your loss & that it or to low h power ... what you or miner can doo is nothing or find pool what it work best for each of us like h power we have

Example for how bad thing can goo:
Block           Validity   Finder   Time            Variance %
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X          2017-08-18 11:56:04   345.66
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-17 21:20:15   168.29
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-17 14:14:23   484.61
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-16 19:18:30   322.17
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-16 06:35:59   97.32
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-16 02:58:04   225.26
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-14 13:08:09   206.78
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-14 00:11:25   179.01
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-13 07:58:56   437.59
XXXXXXX   Confirmed   X           2017-08-12 09:43:22   445.07

i am new to & in case i make some mistake some older miner can correct me & hope it help you to undestend way what you was describe was happen & help to minimize your future loss

cheers

[marthor]

Suprnova and OCMiner are very reputable.

What happened is that you simply got unlucky. Suprnova's ZEC pool has a high block time, which means you need to mine there for a long time (at least 12 hours) if you don't want luck to excessively influence your reward.

[philipma1957]

 1 week tests not 1/2  day tests.

I am mining zec at suprnova.cc

I am using 8 1080 ti's to test.

I will give results soon.  Ie six days from now

As I am 1 day in

[sir_blacks]

at least 12 hours

12 hour is nothing if Round Variance it hit 400-500 or even 300 depend by what h rate he was have or how many valid share it was send (we don't know value, detail anything), this payment system it have a problem coz it require to mine full round + to keep your quota till end other way 4,5,8,12 hour it can be flush to toilet (i experience that on my own skin on other pool) ... BUT is noo scam is just how thing work, if is fair?!?! that happen is other discussion ...

he say "2. There's no way one round can last days and go over 500 percent complete. I've suffered from these many many times." it can happen to goo to 500 & i already give a example in previous post is real not invented "2017-08-17 14:14:23   484.61%" & how i say it can happen is how system work ... what i will say the problem it came when thing like that it goo in row fallow one by other, at that point admin is suppose to look in matter to investigate & agen is NOT a scam

about "4. The fact that I'm not receiving any reply from the admin to my many questions and help requests" yes that is not nice

anyway his matter it suppose to be clear with more detail, all we can do is to make supposition working with out real fact

cheers

[francescocmazza]

Philip, I strongly suggest you try other pools like mining pool hub or coinotron, these last two seem to be much more reliable IMHO.
Thank you all for your kind replies. I think there are two possibilities to explain suprnova behavior:
1. PPLNS number of shares is lower than a few unlucky rounds, therefore the last contributors to a round get overpaid and the first ones get stolen.
2. The admin is deliberately playing around.

[Pakal]

I am in your same situation. I've mined the pool through a nicehash rental contract. Mined for 3 hours straight , which was almost half the time of the round ( 7:40 hours) . OK, I know that it was a long round and that the PPNLS payout system was going to affect the payout , but to receive ZERO , when I contributed that much to the round seems pretty impossible.

I  am a beginner BUT I do not like to point fingers. Before writing here I tried to contact Suprnova, 1) via their support webmail form, 2) directly sending an email to the email on their website, 3) sent a message on Twitter, 4) sent a PM via this forum to Ocminer. I waited 4 days and I've received NO RESPONSE , ZERO, NADA.

I may be wrong and what happened might be totally in line with the mining activity. If you look at the stats of the round you can see my worker (pakal) as being the 4th highest contributor in terms of shares.  How is it possible that I mined 240,254,387  shared and NOT A SINGLE ONE was accounted as a PPNLS  share !?!?!!?

BUT I have received no response at all, and for this reason I feel I HAVE BEEN SCAMMED.

Ocminer may be a respected member of this forum, and Suprnova a legit pool, but until I will receive an explanation of why I have been denied roughly 200$ worth of payout I'd consider Suprnova a SCAM BUSINESS. BEWARE before you engage in any mining activity with Suprnova.

These are the proof of my mining activity taken from the Suprnova Dashboard

http://imgur.com/DhAZ5B8
http://imgur.com/52vUyiG

[marthor]

I am in your same situation. I've mined the pool through a nicehash rental contract. Mined for 3 hours straight , which was almost half the time of the round ( 7:40 hours) . OK, I know that it was a long round and that the PPNLS payout system was going to affect the payout , but to receive ZERO , when I contributed that much to the round seems pretty impossible.

I  am a beginner BUT I do not like to point fingers. Before writing here I tried to contact Suprnova, 1) via their support webmail form, 2) directly sending an email to the email on their website, 3) sent a message on Twitter, 4) sent a PM via this forum to Ocminer. I waited 4 days and I've received NO RESPONSE , ZERO, NADA.

I may be wrong and what happened might be totally in line with the mining activity. If you look at the stats of the round you can see my worker (pakal) as being the 4th highest contributor in terms of shares.  How is it possible that I mined 240,254,387  shared and NOT A SINGLE ONE was accounted as a PPNLS  share !?!?!!?

BUT I have received no response at all, and for this reason I feel I HAVE BEEN SCAMMED.

Ocminer may be a respected member of this forum, and Suprnova a legit pool, but until I will receive an explanation of why I have been denied roughly 200$ worth of payout I'd consider Suprnova a SCAM BUSINESS. BEWARE before you engage in any mining activity with Suprnova.

These are the proof of my mining activity taken from the Suprnova Dashboard

http://imgur.com/DhAZ5B8
http://imgur.com/52vUyiG

You likely mined during an unlucky period. Suprnova didn't find a block while your shares were among the shares being considered for the block reward. The pool's average block time is almost two hours, so it's not unusual to have a round over three hours. I don't think there's any foul play here.

[MPeon]

I am mining sigt at suprnova at the moment and no issues with payments ;o

[francescocmazza]

The payments are fine with suprnova, it's just the amount credited while mining that doesn't add up.

[joshuajones02]

The payments are fine with suprnova, it's just the amount credited while mining that doesn't add up.

Thank god someone else notices, I was thinking it was just me..

[Ancienot]

I was testing it all for 10 days myself and finally can confirm what is said by the creator of this topic. And I also received no reply at all from Suprnova in a week.

You don`t need to trust us, just test it yourself using 2 rigs or separate your gpus with apps on suprnova and any other pool and test it for 3-5 days.

[ocminer]

Rule #1: Don't use Nicehash on a PPLNS Pool

ZEC is a relatively small/mid-sized pool considering hash and it was DDoS'ed throughout the whole last week - and now this thread, must be a co-incidence

However, there are always rounds with bad luck and rounds with good luck. If you're rented hash during a round of bad luck you'll for sure not get the return you'd expect as the round takes longer than expected (bad luck), rounds with good luck however will return more than expected - no one is complaining then

Since most pools are PPLNS now, renting rigs for a short period of time will always result in negative rewards because the pool calculates rewards from the shares submitted over the last X rounds - not just the last hour or so..

So in short: Nicehash doesn't work on the ZEC (or other PPLNS pools) pool over short periods.

Oh and considering support - I'm available through PM here, through IRC, through twitter and through contact forms/e-mails... If you can't reach me, the problem is 100% on your side.

[philipma1957]

Rule #1: Don't use Nicehash on a PPLNS Pool

ZEC is a relatively small/mid-sized pool considering hash and it was DDoS'ed throughout the whole last week - and now this thread, must be a co-incidence

However, there are always rounds with bad luck and rounds with good luck. If you're rented hash during a round of bad luck you'll for sure not get the return you'd expect as the round takes longer than expected (bad luck), rounds with good luck however will return more than expected - no one is complaining then

Since most pools are PPLNS now, renting rigs for a short period of time will always result in negative rewards because the pool calculates rewards from the shares submitted over the last X rounds - not just the last hour or so..

So in short: Nicehash doesn't work on the ZEC (or other PPLNS pools) pool over short periods.

Oh and considering support - I'm available through PM here, through IRC, through twitter and through contact forms/e-mails... If you can't reach me, the problem is 100% on your side.

Yeah. Your pool went dead for 9 hours on Sunday I stopped testing .

Quick thoughts anyone that talks about short testing simply does not understand the game they are playing.

And even with your pool being attacked for about 9 hours.  I hit enough blocks prior to the attack and after the attack to make out okay.

[Pakal]

Rule #1: Don't use Nicehash on a PPLNS Pool

How come you even put instructions on your website with  a video on a how to use your pool with Nicehash rental contract ?!?!
Proof : http://imgur.com/mUc4Rvq

However, there are always rounds with bad luck and rounds with good luck. If you're rented hash during a round of bad luck you'll for sure not get the return you'd expect as the round takes longer than expected (bad luck), rounds with good luck however will return more than expected - no one is complaining then

It's not a matter of less than expected results , I was paid ZERO, after 3 hours of mining and after having contributed more than 240,000,000 shares , NONE of them was accounted as PPNLS  , I highly doubt it's possible, NO matter what the N value is in your pool.

Oh and considering support - I'm available through PM here, through IRC, through twitter and through contact forms/e-mails... If you can't reach me, the problem is 100% on your side.

I've contacted you over twitter, on your pool's thread on bitcointalk.org ( as a matter of fact, my post is the last one of the thread ) , used your webmail form, sent an email , sent a PM on bitcointalk , and you tell me that it's my problem !?!!?!?!?
Proof : http://imgur.com/KHD9Hri

[marthor]

I think the issue is that Suprnova uses a very short "N" value for PPLNS calculations on ZEC. This makes the results extremely variable. If the N value were increased, payouts would be much less variable, but it would take longer to get your coins.

Anyway, it's very possible for your shares to be worth nothing with PPLNS. It's also common for them to be worth 2 or 3x as much (or more). It all depends on luck.

[francescocmazza]

I think the issue is that Suprnova uses a very short "N" value for PPLNS calculations on ZEC. This makes the results extremely variable. If the N value were increased, payouts would be much less variable, but it would take longer to get your coins.

Anyway, it's very possible for your shares to be worth nothing with PPLNS. It's also common for them to be worth 2 or 3x as much (or more). It all depends on luck.

I agree 100 percent.

Ocminer, you still have not replied to my 4 support requests of 2 weeks ago so please don't go around claiming that your available everywhere and if we're not able to reach you it's our problem.

Ocminer, pardon my arrogance but if I understand the mechanic correctly all you have to do to solve our issue is increase the N value to a few times the share number of an unlucky round.

Can't you do that?

[Pakal]

Still no reply to any of my support request. Call it whatever you want, I call it a scam, and I will stick to it until I will be given a mathematical explanation of why of 240,000,000 shares NONE of them was accounted as PPNLS.

[ocminer]

I think the issue is that Suprnova uses a very short "N" value for PPLNS calculations on ZEC. This makes the results extremely variable. If the N value were increased, payouts would be much less variable, but it would take longer to get your coins.

Anyway, it's very possible for your shares to be worth nothing with PPLNS. It's also common for them to be worth 2 or 3x as much (or more). It all depends on luck.

Yes, luck is a big factor here, however, the "N" value is not fixed, it's variable and should hover around the last 5-6 rounds.

I think the issue is that Suprnova uses a very short "N" value for PPLNS calculations on ZEC. This makes the results extremely variable. If the N value were increased, payouts would be much less variable, but it would take longer to get your coins.

Anyway, it's very possible for your shares to be worth nothing with PPLNS. It's also common for them to be worth 2 or 3x as much (or more). It all depends on luck.

I agree 100 percent.

Ocminer, you still have not replied to my 4 support requests of 2 weeks ago so please don't go around claiming that your available everywhere and if we're not able to reach you it's our problem.

Ocminer, pardon my arrogance but if I understand the mechanic correctly all you have to do to solve our issue is increase the N value to a few times the share number of an unlucky round.

Can't you do that?

I'll do some tests and see if it's feasible/necessary to raise that value.

Still no reply to any of my support request. Call it whatever you want, I call it a scam, and I will stick to it until I will be given a mathematical explanation of why of 240,000,000 shares NONE of them was accounted as PPNLS.

I've tried to reply to your post in the other thread, however, it's technically impossible that (valid) shares aren't paid at all if your hashrate is displayed on the dashboard as the shares ARE calculated then. It's not so easy to debug nicehash shares, especially not the "fixed orders" as they don't appear like a normal rig on the poolside, they rather appear as a big miner jumping in and out which is totally unproductive on PPLNS pools as we need a "stable" amount of shares over a longer period - not some bursts of shares, that's why I don't recommend it on PPLNS pools as it's really problematic.

I'd also recommend you to compare results with different pools, you'll see at the end it's the same.. some rounds are lucky and pay more, some are unlucky and pay less.

A pool is no guarantee for your rewards/rounds to be exactly what is estimated.

[Pakal]

I've tried to reply to your post in the other thread, however, it's technically impossible that (valid) shares aren't paid at all if your hashrate is displayed on the dashboard as the shares ARE calculated then. It's not so easy to debug nicehash shares, especially not the "fixed orders" as they don't appear like a normal rig on the poolside, they rather appear as a big miner jumping in and out which is totally unproductive on PPLNS pools as we need a "stable" amount of shares over a longer period - not some bursts of shares, that's why I don't recommend it on PPLNS pools as it's really problematic.

A pool is no guarantee for your rewards/rounds to be exactly what is estimated.

I am not here to post false claims. I believe you should put up some time to troubleshoot this problem. Like you said , NO WAY that a valid share is not paid AT ALL. Which is indeed my case.
Please give a look at the screenshot I took from your pool . The round/block  in  question is the 168084.
You can see  that my worker produced 240,254,387 valid shares our of  a total of 4,294,967,295 shares in the block. NOT ONE SINGLE share has been accounted as PPLNS share. Other workers have been accounted all or part of the shares of that round , as per the PPNLS algorithm. NOT ME, I have been accounted ZERO shares. Please look at the links of all the screenshot that I took from your pool and from my nicehash account . You will also find another very odd thing : the screenshot of the round in question that I took that same day, show different numbers from the screenshot taken today. As a matter of fact, if you look at it now, it shows as ZERO VALID shares have been accounted as PPNLS shares on round 168084 

Round resume : http://imgur.com/DhAZ5B8
Round details : http://imgur.com/52vUyiG
Round resume as of today : http://imgur.com/EdqcYv0

My nicehash contract : http://imgur.com/d2dVTkE
My nicehast second contract : http://imgur.com/5Ys3nyx


Please look into it and explain. FYI I was using a Nicehash Rental Contract, ( NOT a fixed one ) that I constantly monitored so that I could keep a steady hash rate. This went for about 3 hours , with 2 separate contracts, which in any case were using the same worker.

When I say I am missing 0.04 BTC, I am just saying the amount of ZEC converted in BTC . I know you pay in ZEC, and 0.04  BTC is a rough estimate.
I hope we could see the end of this problem and I apologize to OP for sort of hijacking his thread.