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Author Topic: Random thoughts on the recent and upcoming hardforks.  (Read 989 times)
deisik
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August 19, 2017, 08:25:02 AM
Last edit: August 19, 2017, 10:33:25 AM by deisik
 #21

The aftermath of the BTC/BCH split means that the market is less afraid of hard forks.

On the day of the hardfork I facetiously asked on reddit:

what is the limit then? Why don't we do a fork every day? Fuck it, lets continuously compound the shit outta this, and all go buy Maserati's
I meant that as a reductio ad absurdum but if the upcoming 2x split has a similar positive(ish) outcome, we may see the flood gates open as everyone with a half-baked idea on how to improve the network comes out with their own hard-fork.

This raises the question about the so called 21mm hard cap on the number of bitcoins. If the chain can simply be copied to infinity, doesn't that compromise the inflation-resistant properties that made bitcoin so popular amoung people concerned about the inflationary nature of the current financial system?

I do not believe so, space on each particular network will still be limited, and tokens belonging to those networks will thus be valued. But which network will be valued? And who gets to claim the bitcoin 'title'.

People mostly are looking at hash rates and price differences between BTC and BCH and probably plan to do the same thing during the hardfork in November.

These metrics are interesting and important but may I propose another way of measuring who gets the crown; the chain that spawns the most new valuable hardforks. If I esiewert, decided to create a new hardfork years down the road, I would have to choose which chain to split from. I could bcash, bseg or bseg2x. By then the ownership on each chain could be radically different. I will choose whichever one I feel has the most support behind it and / or would be most responsive to whatever changes I propose. Eventually the market will decide on a particular chain as the 'base' from which other forks happen. Speculators will pile into this everytime a fork occurs that has any value, and this chain will have massive value

You can't water down milk endlessly

Just like no one now gives a single fuck about the majority of new altcoins (and I'm curious if there is a new coin every other day as before), no one will be giving any more fuck about the majority of Bitcoin forks in the future either. The history repeats itself. At first, it were altcoins, then the effect quickly exhausted itself, after that ICO's sprang up, but now they seem to be on the wane too. Today it is the Bitcoin day with Bitcoin's hard forks gaining momentum but ultimately they will run out of gas as well

It is a common myth that Bitcoin is ruled by a majority of miners. This is not true. Bitcoin miners "vote" on the ordering of transactions, but that's all they do. They can't vote to change the network rules.
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Lampaster
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August 19, 2017, 08:34:47 AM
 #22

I am surprised that there are people interested in countless hardforks for the simple fact that this can generate a few pennies of profit, when in the long run a continuous division can only weaken the credibility in the efficiency of the blockchain to solve problems by which was created, and I am convinced that a divided community is a weak and vulnerable community, and on that weak basis I don't think it can be built the solid alternative that the world economy requires.
Fully support you. In the bitcoin community there is a lot of random people who are attracted by the opportunity to earn easy money through higher prices, but they don't understand what constant growth rates and division can kill bitcoin and as a result, suffer all, and most importantly that we will lose the currency which we are fed.
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August 19, 2017, 08:46:35 AM
 #23

Personally, I welcome every damn fork the developers want to create. Why? Because that'll be one more coin I will own. Simple as that. Eventually, the value of the collective will be more than the value of one. So...bring them on!

Why do you think the collective value would be higher?
It's maybe true just in the short-term...

BTC is strong cause many people use it and believe it has value. Many forks can change that


Why  you don't think if damn fork will own true coin value duoble but value of coin will be less than original it
Any altcoin is also possible damn fork will be   big influence on crypto, I don't like this.
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August 19, 2017, 10:17:35 AM
 #24

What I see about all this argument for or against a particular course of action is because each of this individuals or group are only trying to fight for what they think is the best and because they know a lot of people trust them to follow them but either way the outcome of their decisions is likely going to spell doom for bitcoin and by that time, they will all have nothing to argue about and for the majority of followers they think they have would have been dispersed and nothing to fall back on.
Funeral Wreaths
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August 19, 2017, 10:35:28 AM
 #25

as for my own opinion, we cannot predict or stop whether hardfork will be decided on the next years, stil we cannot stop that incoming updates or news regarding that one. initially speaking what comes and go i still accept it as long as it would be for the better purpose then its okay. no matter what we speak of, if it will happenwe cannot do anything about it.
Lieldoryn
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August 19, 2017, 10:39:04 AM
 #26

Such regular upheavals are not good for bitcoin. It seems to me that if this does not stop bitcoin may lose confidence. I don't understand why you cannot agree to make it all profitable. Sometimes I even think that people are not ready for democracy and confuse it with permissiveness.
deisik
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August 19, 2017, 11:27:56 AM
 #27

Such regular upheavals are not good for bitcoin. It seems to me that if this does not stop bitcoin may lose confidence. I don't understand why you cannot agree to make it all profitable. Sometimes I even think that people are not ready for democracy and confuse it with permissiveness.

Welcome to reality, bro

This is what is called life, real life. There will always be tensions, controversies, even conspiracies (real or imaginary). You can't live without them, so why should Bitcoin? On the other hand, after each issue gets successfully resolved, it will in fact get more confidence since it is not the lack of problems which gives credit to Bitcoin (or anything else, for that matter) but rather its ability to solve and overcome arising problems and issues. Anyway, it is essentially the same with other currencies too (after all, Ethereum seems to be absorbed in upheavals of no less degree)

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August 19, 2017, 10:30:55 PM
 #28

I am surprised that there are people interested in countless hardforks for the simple fact that this can generate a few pennies of profit, when in the long run a continuous division can only weaken the credibility in the efficiency of the blockchain to solve problems by which was created, and I am convinced that a divided community is a weak and vulnerable community, and on that weak basis I don't think it can be built the solid alternative that the world economy requires.
Fully support you. In the bitcoin community there is a lot of random people who are attracted by the opportunity to earn easy money through higher prices, but they don't understand what constant growth rates and division can kill bitcoin and as a result, suffer all, and most importantly that we will lose the currency which we are fed.

I think what people don't understand, generally, is that these markets are not efficient and can be easily manipulated in the short term. It would only take a few BTC whales, a few multi-millionaires, to prop up the BCH price and dry up the liquid supply. But what can happen if BCH survives -- if Segwit2x survives -- and so does BTC?

Network splits devalue the coin tremendously, if you put any weight on Metcalfe's Law. It just takes time for for the depletion of network value to be reflected in the markets. Over time, we will see the extent of the damage done reflected in the price.
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August 20, 2017, 03:08:39 AM
 #29

Oh my lord calm down. There weren't so many times in the past that people wanted to hard fork and it just never actually panned out until now. The strongest chain will survive.
deisik
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August 20, 2017, 08:43:30 AM
 #30

Network splits devalue the coin tremendously, if you put any weight on Metcalfe's Law. It just takes time for for the depletion of network value to be reflected in the markets. Over time, we will see the extent of the damage done reflected in the price

I can't say that I particularly disagree with you

In general, I think essentially along the same lines mostly because Bitcoin is a zero-sum game and in the long term it should be as you say. But the devil is in the detail, and the detail you seem to be missing here is that, first, Bitcoin is an open system (read you don't count in the money that could flow in from outside), and, second, you forget that many people were sitting on the piles of dollars before the split but now they may be putting their dollars into action. The bottom line is that both regular Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash could start rising, and that could be puzzling or confusing (unless you see the whole picture like the one I described)

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