[Betcoin.AG] stole all the BCHs from players’ funds.

[Wh0CaR3s]

After August 1st and the Bitcoin fork, Betcoin.ag did not give any BCH to their rightful owners. Since then, they are avoiding and / or deleting any question about the payment of the said BCHs to the players who kept their roll on site during the fork.


Here’s the statement pre-fork from Betcoin on July 29th :


https://i.imgur.com/geZr4MJ.png

We would like to take this opportunity to let you know our plans as we prepare for the potential disruptions to the Bitcoin (BTC) network. We must state that our primary focus is always on you our great customers and we will always make decisions with your best interests, safety and security in mind. In the event of a User Activated Hard Fork (UAHF) on August 1, 2017, the new currency created would be an alt coin like LTC or ETH and would not be supported. This new currency has been proposed to be called Bitcoin Cash (BCC). Depending on its benefits and user demand, we may support it in the future.

BTC would continue to be supported and will always be fully supported. We will not be suspending service in anyway, deposits or withdrawals and will continue to run in full to provide you a great service. We may increase confirmation times to 3 confirmations but will update this thread no later than 31, July 2017 if we decide to do so. Withdrawals may undergo a bit more scrutiny but will not be delayed. We believe that the bitcoin network will remain wholly unaffected by the transgressions over the next 30 days.
As always, we will also continue to support LTC and ETH with no delays or issues. Again, our focus is on you our great players and we will continue to do what is right for you. We thank you very much for playing with us and the best of luck to everyone!

https://www.betcoin.ag/bitcoin-hard-fork-our-position-service-will-run-no-restrictions



At not point during this statement, they explicitly talk about what will happen of the players’ funds BCHs created during the fork.

At no point during this statement, they advise their players to cash-out before the fork and cash-in after so they can split on their own their BCHs.

Worse, by saying 2 times that they will act in the best interests and do what is right for their players they are hinting that players’ funds integrity are safe, which includes the BCHs.
One thing for sure is that the best interests of their players and Betcoin doing what is right for them, certainly do not include their players getting robbed of their BCHs.

Most exchanges gave their customers their BCHs on August 1st, all of them will in time (last one being Coinbase on January 1st ’18).
As for the other BTC poker sites, SWC.eu already gave their players their BCHs and Nitrogensports.eu has pledged to the same.
Only Betcoin.AG saw an opportunity to steal from their customers.

And yes it is stealing, as a customer when you upload money to a site you are still the sole owner of the funds. The site just holds them for you.
Thus, you are entitled to the fructus of your ownership.
You can read more about the law here: https://cointelegraph.com/news/snubbing-bitcoin-cash-against-common-law-may-lead-to-legal-troubles-for-coinbase
which lead to the Coinbase reversal decision to finally give all their customers their BCHs even if they don't support BCHs yet on their site: https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-flips-on-bitcoin-cash-decision-promises-support


To add insult to injury, Betcoin is now bragging about being… the biggest BCH gambling site !


https://i.imgur.com/aAKiH6u.png
https://www.betcoin.ag/bitcoin-cash-bcc-bch-casino-sportsbook-betcoinag

[1714956701]

1714956701

[1714956701]

1714956701

[1714956701]

1714956701

[1714956701]

1714956701

[1714956701]

1714956701

[1714956701]

1714956701

[Lauda]

You are not the rightful owner of that BCH unless it was explicitly stated in a ToS, before the event, that any such coins will be distributed to the players. Stop acting self-entitled.
Any coins held on an exchange/online service are not yours, they are IOUs.

[Wh0CaR3s]

You are not the rightful owner of that BCH unless it was explicitly stated in a ToS, before the event, that any such coins will be distributed to the players. Stop acting self-entitled.
Any coins held on an exchange/online service are not yours, they are IOUs.

1) I am not impacted by this. I stopped holding funds on Betcoin since May.

2) ToS mean nothing in regards to the law.

3) No, when you upload funds you don't transfer ownership. That's exactly the reason why Coinbase did a 180 because they were gonna get sued left and right.

[Lauda]

1) I am not impacted by this. I stopped holding funds on Betcoin since May.

Doubtful.

2) ToS mean nothing in regards to the law.

Of course it does. What are you talking about?

3) No, when you upload funds you don't transfer ownership.

Ambiguous claim. Please point me to the section of the law that states that any attack on the Bitcoin network, i.e. any coins from a *duplicated* chain must be sent to the owners/senders of related BTC balances.

That's exactly the reason why Coinbase did a 180 because they were gonna get sued left and right.

Source of the claim that it is because of lawsuits?

[Wh0CaR3s]

Doubtful.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1903130.msg18971049#msg18971049
(at the end of my post)

Of course it does. What are you talking about?

You can put anything you want in ToS. If it contradicts the law, it would be reputed null and void.

Ambiguous claim. Please point me to the section of the law that states that any attack on the Bitcoin network, i.e. any coins from a *duplicated* chain must be sent to the owners/senders of related BTC balances.

No need for that to be so specific. Property law 101.
I let you read about "usus" "fructus" and "abusus".
BCH here is the fructus of BTC. Hence as the owner of the said BTC, you are entitled to its product (BCH).

Source of the claim that it is because of lawsuits?

Indeed, no source for that. They would have been idiots to admit it.

[Lauda]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1903130.msg18971049#msg18971049
(at the end of my post)

Wonderful. You've been going after them for months?

You can put anything you want in ToS. If it contradicts the law, it would be reputed null and void.

Does not in this case.

I let you read about "usus" "fructus" and "abusus".
BCH here is the fructus of BTC. Hence as the owner of the said BTC, you are entitled to its product (BCH).

BCH is a product of Bitcoin? What kind of kool-aid have you been drinking?

Indeed, no source for that. They would have been idiots to admit it.

[Wh0CaR3s]

Not sure you just like to contradict people or that you are here for the sole purpose of creating white noise.

Either way, one last round for me and I will stop wasting my time with you.

BCH is a product of Bitcoin? What kind of kool-aid have you been drinking? Cheesy

Apparently the same one as a Columbia Law professor, Tim Wu.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Wu
https://twitter.com/superwuster

If you correctly read my OP you would see my link to a Coinbase article where it states the Wu's POV about BTC/BCH and Coinbase.
You are apparently too lazy, so here it is:
https://i.imgur.com/hA9JmRU.png

[Lauda]

Not sure you just like to contradict people or that you are here for the sole purpose of creating white noise.

I destroy bullshit when I see it, and this is bullshit.

Apparently the same one as a Columbia Law professor, Tim Wu.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

-snip-

His reasoning is bullshit. A contentious hard fork, one which is malicious at best, is in no way a product of Bitcoin. Actually, it has absolutely no resemblance to Bitcoin. Treating it as a product legally can only be the byproduct of old school thinking of those who can't adapt. Every time that someone tries to attack Bitcoin like this, all companies are expected to spend time, money and resources in order to adjust to the attack or otherwise get sued?

[Spoetnik]

Yeah it's scammy of them to do that.

[litcoi]

Anyway, is there a consolidated list of scam coins? Like a sticky in alphabet order with the dead ones greyed out so we don't waste our time. Anyone thinking of "investing" can at least check this list quickly as a first step in "due diligence". At least get screwed by a coin that put in some effort.

[actmyname]

Anyway, is there a consolidated list of scam coins? Like a sticky in alphabet order with the dead ones greyed out so we don't waste our time. Anyone thinking of "investing" can at least check this list quickly as a first step in "due diligence". At least get screwed by a coin that put in some effort.

You don't have any idea what the fuck is happening here, do you? Betcoin.ag, a casino site took all of the BCH that was forked from August for themselves. Even if one doesn't believe in BCH, it doesn't necessarily deserve to be called a 'scam coin'. There are far better candidates for that.The users weren't screwed over by any scam coin but rather by the scam site.

[primera]

You are not a "rightful" owner if you do not own the private key. Period.

[HCP]

Deposit BTC into an exchange (or any other online service for that matter like an online casino) where you do not have access to a private key --> that makes you the rightful "owner" of a "number stored in a database"... You're not in control of any private keys with respect to that online service, so you're not in control or the owner of any BTC in relation to that service.

Should someone happen to create a new blockchain which affords people who control private keys access to "SomeOtherCoin"™... well, your "number stored in a database" is NOT a private key... you're not entitled to anything...

It's like paying for USD$1 credit on your mobile phone, and then the government says, everyone who owns USD$1 will get a free GBP$1. Your "USD$1" credit at the phone company is NOT USD$1... it is effectively a credit equivalent to USD$1... the phone company holds the USD$1... so they're entitled to the GBP$1... not you.