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Author Topic: Religious beliefs on bitcoin  (Read 22247 times)
neurobox
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June 02, 2013, 04:43:15 AM
 #501

[It's a relationship now, not a belief, not dependent on anyone else's opinion. It's not something I can un-realize.

I had an imaginary friend too at one point. He was totally real to me, I loved him, and I trusted him. It was a close relationship, but I somehow eventually outgrew it. Perhaps it was the realization that it was all just my imagination, all in my mind, and that my friend was really nothing more than a plush rabbit. Perhaps it was a deeper realization that my friend couldn't answer any questions I didn't already know, and thus he was just something fully contained within my mind. I don't know. But I eventually lost my religion the same way, when I was confronted with very dark and difficult questions, and god couldn't answer them because I myself didn't have an answer either.

No offense, but I always thought having imaginary friends was kinda silly. I can't say I've had that experience, however real it may have been to you.

EDIT: It's different. I've seen God regularly answer prayers in ways that I could not remotely influence on my own let alone concoct.
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June 02, 2013, 01:27:01 PM
 #502

Abrahamic religions are obsolete because bitcoin philosophy and technology are not built into them.
Faith in programmers is more founded than faith in ancient scribes.

Wit all my solidarities,
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June 02, 2013, 01:37:48 PM
 #503

Abrahamic religions are obsolete because bitcoin philosophy and technology are not built into them.
Faith in programmers is more founded than faith in ancient scribes.

...And faith in dixie cups is more founded than faith in quantum mechanics.  What's your point?
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June 02, 2013, 01:47:02 PM
 #504

Abrahamic religions are obsolete because bitcoin philosophy and technology are not built into them.
Faith in programmers is more founded than faith in ancient scribes.

...And faith in dixie cups is more founded than faith in quantum mechanics.  What's your point?
Not true.

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June 02, 2013, 01:52:49 PM
 #505

Abrahamic religions are obsolete because bitcoin philosophy and technology are not built into them.
Faith in programmers is more founded than faith in ancient scribes.

...And faith in dixie cups is more founded than faith in quantum mechanics.  What's your point?
Not true.

How so?  You spend much time at CERN? 
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June 02, 2013, 03:02:01 PM
 #506

We can all agree most religious people are nuts

That's pretty funny, considering that Bitcoin itself is pretty much a religion at this point
At least it isn't about some magical man from the sky that can make something out of nothing. Plus, we've been to the moon, and still no man from the sky.
You are that magical man, take some LSD and watch as you make something out of nothing.

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June 02, 2013, 05:06:39 PM
 #507

Abrahamic religions are obsolete because bitcoin philosophy and technology are not built into them.
Faith in programmers is more founded than faith in ancient scribes.

...And faith in dixie cups is more founded than faith in quantum mechanics.  What's your point?
Not true.

How so?  You spend much time at CERN? 
No. But my faith in science, math, particle physics and programming can be checked.
You spend much time in ancient scribeville?
Wait.. dont answer that.

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June 02, 2013, 05:56:22 PM
 #508

Abrahamic religions are obsolete because bitcoin philosophy and technology are not built into them.
Faith in programmers is more founded than faith in ancient scribes.

...And faith in dixie cups is more founded than faith in quantum mechanics.  What's your point?
Not true.

How so?  You spend much time at CERN?  
No. But my faith in science, math, particle physics and programming can be checked.
You spend much time in ancient scribeville?
Wait.. dont answer that.

Concentrate, ktttn, pay attention & i'll talk you through this:  This ain't alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, stay on topic.  
The question you should have asked is "did [ i ] spend much time with dixie cups," the answer to which would have been "didn't everyone?"
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June 02, 2013, 07:10:30 PM
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The important thing I want to convey is that Jesus' message throughout the gospels is NOT the message that Islam says it is, and his glorification is not polytheism as the Quran insists. His claims to be the son of God (yet one with God) were consistent throughout the gospels. If there's anything in the Islam that I would have you question, that is it. You'd have to discard more than half of what he said, in statements echoed through many writers in the early church.


John 20:17
  "Don't cling to me," Jesus said, "for I haven't yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

 Also, why does Jesus(Peace be with him) constantly refer to himself as the son of man?

    All of the prophets offer guidance and good example.

   Many mystics speak of an experience called union. This is the state in which the "I" dissolves and the individual consciousness merges into universal consciousness. Maybe samadi, nirvana, enlightenment, God consciousness, enlightenment, ecstatic trance, are other words for this. Jesus(peace be with him and with his blessed mother and disciples) was likely one who attained this state. For those who have attained this level of consciousness, the concepts of "I" and "We" may become absurdities. Expression of this union by Hallaj and its interpretation by exoteric thinkers resulted in his being put to death - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansur_Al-Hallaj .
     It is easier to worship an image since it is something that the imagination can grasp, whereas the ultimate reality(eternity) is too vast for the limited reasoning of the intellect. The first images of Jesus or Buddha(peace be with them) were first produced several hundred years after the original teachings, enough time for the essence of the teaching to become diluted and/or corrupted.
   In this sense, the establishment of the trinity was a good appeal to the masses, because it allowed the image of Jesus to take the place of the idols of the Roman temple, thus making Christianity more compatible with the existing rituals.

   This is all conjecture based on a few years of study, I hope it may be helpful to any seekers here, and may I be forgiven if I am mistaken.
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June 02, 2013, 11:20:19 PM
 #510

[It's a relationship now, not a belief, not dependent on anyone else's opinion. It's not something I can un-realize.

I had an imaginary friend too at one point. He was totally real to me, I loved him, and I trusted him. It was a close relationship, but I somehow eventually outgrew it. Perhaps it was the realization that it was all just my imagination, all in my mind, and that my friend was really nothing more than a plush rabbit. Perhaps it was a deeper realization that my friend couldn't answer any questions I didn't already know, and thus he was just something fully contained within my mind. I don't know. But I eventually lost my religion the same way, when I was confronted with very dark and difficult questions, and god couldn't answer them because I myself didn't have an answer either.

I still have very difficult questions that I ask God.  Sometimes He gives me an answer, sometimes I do not get an answer or it takes a while to get one, and sometimes the answer He gives is not what I was hoping for, but that is part of the journey of faith.  Even Jesus, when faced with the daunting task of dying for our sins prayed, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."  Even Jesus was given answers to prayers that were not the easiest to accept.  So much so, he sweat drops of blood while he agonized over facing the cross for us.  Also, I think that for those of us that are logical, we find we need more answers than some that are perfectly content not really understanding much (even though I think it is prudent for all Christians to understand as much as they can about their faith, other faiths, science etc...)  We should not be burying our heads in the sand.

If you don't mind my asking, what were some of those difficult questions?  If you are comfortable in sharing them I would be interesting in knowing what they were, especially ones that were so difficult you lost your religion from them.

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June 02, 2013, 11:42:12 PM
 #511

Many people, when faced with the reality of personal responsibility, prefer to let magical sky beings take responsibility for the difficulties in their life.

That's cool, to each their own. Just as long as they don't try to push those beliefs on me and mine.

As to the OP, Bitcoin is not the "one currency to rule them all" from Revelations. I'd be more worried about RFID chips, frankly. Those things are going to be showing up everywhere pretty soon.

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June 03, 2013, 04:45:15 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2013, 05:14:42 AM by Rassah
 #512

If you don't mind my asking, what were some of those difficult questions?  If you are comfortable in sharing them I would be interesting in knowing what they were, especially ones that were so difficult you lost your religion from them.

Short story:
I got to see a very dark world on an intimate personal level, and questioned how could god possibly exist in such a world.

Long story:
When I was 15, I fell in love with someone, who happened to be a guy, like me. His step-father was a very religious, bible-thumping, violent alcoholic, who made hating religious people easy. After spending many sleepless nights consoling my crying bf, who was hiding out in the basement trying to drown out the sounds of violence from upstairs, my first question was why is his step-father supposedly a better person for being so much into Christ, when he drinks so much, yells at my bf, and hits his wife? After dealing with the fear of our relationship being found out, and as a result me being ostracized at home, and my bf being kicked out of his house or simply beaten to death (he's in one of "those" states), my second question was why is the whole world telling us that we are committing a grave sin worthy of death, when all that happened was that we fell in love, something that's beyond our control and seemed beautiful to us?
The next thing that happened was that I was part of an online community that happened to include a lot of other kids my age, who used the privacy and anonymity of the internet to find other similar souls, share interests, and confide in them. Being extremely compassionate and fascinated by psychiatry/psychology at the time (very high IQ, and way more "grown up" than others my age), I got a chance to hear and console allot of guys and girls who were struggling with fear of and actual rejection from their parents because of their sexuality, various physical and sexual abuses from their parents, and who were just living in really shitty conditions that, being under 18, they couldn't do anything about. These were really horrible stories from people I ended up knowing very intimately, many of whom I ended up considering very close friends. On a few occasions there was eventually news from others that one of these "friends" committed suicide, or someone admitting, after being away for a few weeks, that they were in the hospital for attempting it. Eventually, after a nervous breakdown or two, it got to the point where I eventually got jaded, not wanting to listen to these stories anymore. Being immersed in all this, and being personally involved due to also recently finding out I'm not straight, affected me tremendously, leading me to nearly abandoning highschool, and landing me at a psychiatrist's with severe depression myself. In this particular dark part of my world, the third question that came up was why would god completely ignore these kids and their struggles, and just allow it to continue to happen? After all, these were not criminals, or bad people, they were just innocent kids who didn't do anything wrong, and had no control over their situations. There was no reason or purpose to their suffering. And that question eventually morphed into the last and final question, which was, how can god be so evil as to allow for a dark, extremely vast, yet unnoticed world like this to even exist?
From there it was a pretty easy step to simply realize that god most likely doesn't exist. If he does, at this point I think god would have to be the one to apologize profusely to me and my friends for his sins, and even then I doubt I would forgive him. From all that I have learned since then, if god was, by some chance, real, I would be one of the first in line to wage war on him and try to bring him down for all the horrible injustice and suffering he has caused. Keep in mind, this isn't a "woe's me!" sort of thing. I wouldn't be demanding an apology to me personally, but on behalf of the many others he has wronged. But he's just a made up story, and it's much easier to think that there isn't anyone out there turning a blind eye to things, instead of knowing there's some horrible monster out there with the power to stop things, who chooses to simply watch.

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June 03, 2013, 04:50:31 AM
 #513

Thank you for sharing that, Rassah.

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June 03, 2013, 05:09:40 AM
 #514

Don't try too hard to abandon the randomness lay in all of us, if cryptography can teach us anything.

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June 03, 2013, 05:11:04 AM
 #515

If you don't mind my asking, what were some of those difficult questions?  If you are comfortable in sharing them I would be interesting in knowing what they were, especially ones that were so difficult you lost your religion from them.

When I was 15, I fell in love with someone, who happened to be a guy, like me. His step-father was a very religious, bible-thumping, violent alcoholic, who made hating religious people easy. After spending many sleepless nights consoling my crying bf, who was hiding out in the basement trying to drown out the sounds of violence from upstairs, my first question was why is his step-father supposedly a better person for being so much into Christ, when he drinks so much, yells at my bf, and hits his wife? After dealing with the fear of our relationship being found out, and as a result me being ostracized at home, and my bf being kicked out of his house or simply beaten to death (he's in one of "those" states), my second question was why is the whole world telling us that we are committing a grave sin worthy of death, when all that happened was that we fell in love, something that's beyond our control and seemed beautiful to us?
The next thing that happened was that I was part of an online community that happened to include a lot of other kids my age, who used the privacy and anonymity of the internet to find other similar souls, share interests, and confide in them. Being extremely compassionate and fascinated by psychiatry/psychology at the time (very high IQ, and way more "grown up" than others my age), I got a chance to hear and console allot of guys and girls who were struggling with fear of and actual rejection from their parents because of their sexuality, various abuses from their parents, and who were just living in really shitty conditions that, being under 18, they couldn't do anything about. These were really horrible stories from people I ended up knowing very intimately, many of whom I ended up considering very close friends. On a few occasions there was eventually news from others that one of these "friends" committed suicide, or someone admitting, after being away for a few weeks, that they were in the hospital for attempting it. Eventually, after a nervous breakdown or two, it got to the point where I eventually got jaded, not wanting to listen to these stories anymore. Being immersed in all this, and being personally involved due to also recently finding out I'm not straight, affected me tremendously, leading me to nearly abandoning highschool, and landing me at a psychiatrist's with severe depression myself. In this particular dark part of my world, the third question that came up was why would god completely ignore these kids and their struggles, and just allow it to continue to happen? After all, these were not criminals, or bad people, they were just innocent kids who didn't do anything wrong, and had no control over their situations. There was no reason or purpose to their suffering. And that question eventually morphed into the last and final question, which was, how can god be so evil as to allow for a dark, extremely vast, yet unnoticed world like this to even exist?
From there it was a pretty easy step to simply realize that god most likely doesn't exist. If he does, at this point I think god would have to be the one to apologize profusely to me and my friends for his sins, and even then I doubt I would forgive him. From all that I have learned since then, if god was, by some chance, real, I would be one of the first in line to wage war on him and try to bring him down for all the horrible injustice and suffering he has caused. But he's just a made up story, and it's much easier to think that there isn't anyone out there turning a blind eye to things, instead of knowing there's some horrible monster out there with the power to stop things, who chooses to simply watch.

Wow, that is harsh and I can see losing your religion from that.  Just being gay is enough in itself for most people to stay clear of religions because religions are against gays and Christians are massive homophobes.

Of course you know the answers you will get to the "there is no God because the world is evil." Most of them will give you the whole "free will" speech but I have to agree with you. If God is watching all this happen and turns a blind eye because he wants people to live their life without interference. I'm pretty sure I don't want to sit at his side because you never know when he might reject you or turn on you. The idea that there is a cruel God out there somewhere is more scary than the idea that there is no God at all.


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June 03, 2013, 05:20:59 AM
 #516

Of course you know the answers you will get to the "there is no God because the world is evil." Most of them will give you the whole "free will" speech but I have to agree with you. If God is watching all this happen and turns a blind eye because he wants people to live their life without interference.

That "free will" thing doesn't fly when you spend a bunch of nights passionately praying for hours for god to intervene, even just a little bit, only to find out a few weeks later that the person you were praying for bought a one-way ticket to hell through suicide after not being able to handle their god-ignored situation. That whole premise didn't make any sense to me either.

Also, if you think about it, didn't Jesus basically commit "suicide-by-cop?"

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June 03, 2013, 05:42:12 AM
 #517

Of course you know the answers you will get to the "there is no God because the world is evil." Most of them will give you the whole "free will" speech but I have to agree with you. If God is watching all this happen and turns a blind eye because he wants people to live their life without interference.

That "free will" thing doesn't fly when you spend a bunch of nights passionately praying for hours for god to intervene, even just a little bit, only to find out a few weeks later that the person you were praying for bought a one-way ticket to hell through suicide after not being able to handle their god-ignored situation. That whole premise didn't make any sense to me either.

Also, if you think about it, didn't Jesus basically commit "suicide-by-cop?"

Actually, the question gets really interesting when you stop trying to seek meaningful answers to your real-life problems from it.

And no, not the Bible, sages living three thousand years ago have nothing to do with the creation of the Universe, still an invaluable work about literature/history/moral guidance though.

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June 03, 2013, 05:44:33 AM
 #518

Rassah, thanks for sharing.. I don't have long, but I want you to know that the New testament's position on homosexuality is far more sensitive than most realize, and it has 2 major implications:

1. anyone that fails to love their neighbor, gay or straight, is seriously on the hook for it, as it's the one interhuman law he left us with, and as he is just, he will repay. "offenses must come, but woe to him by whom they come"

2. the fact that some are given over to that which is "inconvenient" for them looks bad from here, but has a merciful purpose in light of eternity, and really, how else could God see it, if mortal suffering is not the worst thing.
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June 03, 2013, 05:50:18 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2013, 06:22:53 AM by BitChick
 #519

If you don't mind my asking, what were some of those difficult questions?  If you are comfortable in sharing them I would be interesting in knowing what they were, especially ones that were so difficult you lost your religion from them.

And that question eventually morphed into the last and final question, which was, how can god be so evil to allow for a dark, unnoticed world like this to even exist?
From there it was a pretty easy step to simply realize that god most likely doesn't exist. Even if he does, at this point I think god would have to be the one to apologize profusely to me and my friends, and even then I doubt I would forgive him. From all that I have learned since then, if god was, by some chance, real, I would be one of the first in line to wage war on him and try to bring him down for all the horrible injustice and suffering he has caused. But he's just a made up story, and it's much easier to think that there isn't anyone out there turning a blind eye to things.

I can see where you are coming from Rassah.  That is really hard.  I have had friends and two close relatives that are homosexual and the response that many Christians have is not love but hatred instead. (They know that I do not agree with their choices but I still love them) I believe a Christian should respond with compassion and not anger and rejection but there are many that do respond like your bf's father did and there is no wonder that there is so much hatred between Christians and homosexuals because of things like that.  

With regards to your question of "how can God be so evil to allow for a dark, unnoticed world like this to exist?"  I still think your anger might be misdirected.  Perhaps God is not the one to blame in all of this?  Perhaps it is the evil that is in the hearts of some "self righteous" that think that they are doing good?   Sometimes they are the ones that do the most harm.  The Bible gives a warning for some people like that:  "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"  Basically, they think they are doing the "right" thing are justified in doing so. but the Bible is really clear about "not judging."  That said, there is truth in the scripture as well that should not be overlooked. You will not like this but I have to write it anyways,  the laws of scripture are there to protect us from pain and sorrow. The Bible has laws about sex. Sex was created by God to be something sacred. However it is the one thing I feel like Satan uses to hurt so many people when we go down a path that might seem OK at the time.  I have been tempted to fall into sexual "sin" myself many times.  I have had to ask for God's help not to do that and it is easy to ask the common question "if you love someone how can it be wrong?"  But God's laws are actually meant to help us and protect us and are meant to bring peace, joy and every good and perfect gift to us.  So on the one hand, we are not supposed to judge, on the other hand, the Bible has truths that we believe God has shown us to follow.  The thing is, it is up to God to work those things out in the hearts of others, and it not my job to judge anyone (other than our leaders in the church which we are supposed to judge strictly!)

All that said, I would go to God with your questions.  Have it out with Him!  Yell at him at the unfairness of it all.  Tell Him to show you why he would allow these things.  Only He can give you the answers in your heart to them.  I can try to explain things from my viewpoint (which is obviously biased) but I believe it is something He will have to show you personally and no one can really do that.

You are right though, your questions are probably some the toughest anyone has to deal with.


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June 03, 2013, 05:59:25 AM
 #520

You will not like this but I have to write it anyways,  the laws of scripture are there to protect us from pain and sorrow. The Bible has laws about sex. Sex was created by God to be something sacred. However it is the one thing I feel like Satan uses to hurt so many people when we go down a path that might seem OK at the time.  I have been tempted to fall into sexual "sin" myself many times.  I have had to ask for God's help not to do that and it is easy to ask the common question "if you love someone how can it be wrong?"  But God's laws are actually meant to help us and protect us and are meant to bring peace, joy and every good and perfect gift to us.

Love is not a sin, and any God who calls it such is a sick and twisted one, not worthy of faith.

Quote
Let my worship be within the heart that rejoices, for behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals. Therefore, let there be beauty and strength, power and compassion, honor and humility, mirth and reverence within you.

Now that's a deity I can get behind.

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