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Author Topic: Slush Pool vs Kano?  (Read 5585 times)
kano
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August 29, 2017, 01:04:53 PM
 #21

If you ask me, use Slush if you have hash power.
Everything works just fine, long time now.
... and more than twice the fees Smiley

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greyworld
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August 29, 2017, 01:22:28 PM
 #22

If you ask me, use Slush if you have hash power.
Everything works just fine, long time now.
... and more than twice the fees Smiley

But all the 'dust'!

(Kano -> 'Oh don't worry about the dust, I'll sweep that up for you, it's only $70,000 dollars worth, no biggie.  You'll get it, someday when hell freezes over.  Stop bothering me about it')

'¸ __ ¸*ˆ * ·¸ ____ ¸*ˆ*· ¸ ______________________ ¸ ·*ˆ*¸ ____ ¸· * ˆ*¸ __ ¸'
. `·.,¸¸,.' .CKPOOL.ORG - Zero Fee Anonymous Bitcoin Mining Pool´ . . . '.,¸¸,.·´ .
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ `·.,¸¸,' ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ',¸¸,.·´ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
kano
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August 29, 2017, 01:32:38 PM
 #23

If you ask me, use Slush if you have hash power.
Everything works just fine, long time now.
... and more than twice the fees Smiley

But all the 'dust'!

(Kano -> 'Oh don't worry about the dust, I'll sweep that up for you, it's only $70,000 dollars worth, no biggie.  You'll get it, someday when hell freezes over.  Stop bothering me about it')
At least they'll get it one day, unlike the $70,000 on the pool your mining at who lost it due to poor code testing and it's gone forever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah it was a test pool. Prey tell, why would people risk that on a test pool? Most of them never expected to lose a block, none of them should have expected it at all.
"Hey everyone, I'm not gonna risk my thousands of BTC on testing my code, no chance I'd do anything that stupid, I'll leave it to every sucker who mines on the pool, who'll get no gain for making that risk rather than mining somewhere else, just a loss when it fails"

Here's the cause:
https://bitbucket.org/ckolivas/ckpool-splns/commits/5620eb9b78c577a6e71e36dd9b0e3ec349119785

Odd that he took the pool down twice, days apart, for that one commit when it happened ...
the first time 3 hours after it "exploded" ... but it kept going apparently ... ... ...

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
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greyworld
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August 29, 2017, 01:38:33 PM
 #24

At least they'll get it one day ...

What, in another three years?  Suuure...

"But we don't have an accounting system in place yet" <- somehow, you will retroactively bolt one onto the last three years of transactions I suppose?   Roll Eyes  Just admit it, you skimmed off the top from your miners, especially the ones with low spec equip, then you lied about it over and over again.

I think this is why you don't step out from your self-moderated thread very often.  Not so fun when you can't just delete posts you disagree with eh?

'¸ __ ¸*ˆ * ·¸ ____ ¸*ˆ*· ¸ ______________________ ¸ ·*ˆ*¸ ____ ¸· * ˆ*¸ __ ¸'
. `·.,¸¸,.' .CKPOOL.ORG - Zero Fee Anonymous Bitcoin Mining Pool´ . . . '.,¸¸,.·´ .
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ `·.,¸¸,' ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ',¸¸,.·´ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
kano
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August 29, 2017, 01:49:30 PM
 #25

At least they'll get it one day ...

What, in another three years?  Suuure...
LOL - oh damn I'm gonna make a fortune holding dust that:
1) Is listed on everyone's Rewards page who has dust
2) adds up to not much at all

The majority is, as I've said before, people who didn't have addresses on their accounts.
The ones with the most haven't even asked me for it yet.
The way it's going now looks like I still might even get it done before I hear from most of them, I've posted on several occasions the coding TODO order, oh well you can't read, must be tough being underprivileged Smiley

Quote
"But we don't have an accounting system in place yet" <- somehow, you will retroactively bolt one onto the last three years of transactions I suppose?   Roll Eyes  Just admit it, you skimmed off the top from your miners, especially the ones with low spec equip, then you lied about it over and over again.
Your lack of reading skills showing up again Smiley

Heh having fun making stuff up?

At least my post is based on facts ... you can see that someone reported the block more than 3 hours before the pool OP even noticed anything.
The pool was still running when he 'took it down' the first time, even though it "exploded" ... for 3 hours ...
You can see the code that failed. Damn, gotta wonder why he didn't test that ...

Quote
I think this is why you don't step out from your self-moderated thread very often.  Not so fun when you can't just delete posts you disagree with eh?
Lulz, at least when you make up lies, don't pick ones that can be seen easily as falsehoods by clicking on the forum Smiley

Hmm, I wonder what your forum name was before this one Cheesy

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
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Didley1JT
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August 29, 2017, 08:09:42 PM
 #26

This bickering is extremely informative. Honestly, I know you guys are disagreeing, but it's actually very good information to see how pools differ in their accounting, methods of payment, etc. So thank you for that.  Smiley

I am not taking any side here; I'm possibly the most green user on the forum. Just wanted to say thanks and I hope to use some or all of these pool services in the near future!
VRobb
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August 29, 2017, 08:21:57 PM
 #27

Quit bumping up your post counts, didley, you don't know didley about any of this.  grey is an idiot troll and deserves the ignore button.

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Didley1JT
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August 29, 2017, 08:46:46 PM
 #28

Quit bumping up your post counts, didley, you don't know didley about any of this.  grey is an idiot troll and deserves the ignore button.

Either way...

What does it matter if I'm posting? My post count can be zero for all I care; I joined a forum to talk to people about something I find interesting.

But nice to meet you as well. Tongue
greyworld
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August 29, 2017, 09:06:23 PM
 #29

So.... trying to change pace to somewhat less negative

One thing you can do, with some pools, is pool hop.  One day on such and such, one day on another.  It's generally frowned upon but depending on the pools you're using, does not significantly impact your return.  This way you can benefit from the high payout rate of one and the immediate daily payouts (at a lower rate) of another.

Currently I'm spending one day on ckPool, because it's pretty awesome for reasons already stated.  But because I need the BTC my miner makes for ongoing expenses, then the next day I spend on ConnectBTC, which I have mixed feelings about.

Pros:
* Pays daily
* PPS + 10% (for now, I think that's a temporary offer for new signups though)
* Very professional, easy to use website with a nice interface and up to the minute stats
* Run by former members of the Spondoolies team, known for making really nice gear until they went out of business.
* The size of the pool hash rate is irrelevant, you get paid every day even if it takes them weeks to find a block

Cons:
* I think they do not pay out transaction fees, which is a huge portion of revenue anymore and growing by the day
* They are now owned by Bitmain, who is terrible.

One nice thing about ckPool is you can mine there a while, then disconnect, then come back, and you didn't get penalized much for it (or really, at all, that I can tell).

Both slush and kano will heavily penalize you for disconnecting.  On slush your profits will drop to 0 within an hour or so.  On Kano, if i understand correctly, it takes longer than that but taking a day off will have a significant impact on your earnings.

'¸ __ ¸*ˆ * ·¸ ____ ¸*ˆ*· ¸ ______________________ ¸ ·*ˆ*¸ ____ ¸· * ˆ*¸ __ ¸'
. `·.,¸¸,.' .CKPOOL.ORG - Zero Fee Anonymous Bitcoin Mining Pool´ . . . '.,¸¸,.·´ .
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ `·.,¸¸,' ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ',¸¸,.·´ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
kano
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August 30, 2017, 02:28:28 AM
 #30

Heh, you should first understand what you post about.
It will help you avoid making a complete fool of yourself due to making posts of complete rubbish Smiley
Have a read: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.4980.pdf
Most of that is still relevant ... but not all ... but be wary of picking a single statement in that document and making the wrong assumptions about it ... Smiley

Since my pool uses 5Nd for the PPLNS N value, if has the least effect (variance) on 'short term' miners coming and going, of any PPLNS pool.
None use a higher value for N. Many use a lower value. The higher the N is, on a pool that finds many blocks per diff change, the lower the variance for miners that don't mine full time.

However, the expected statistical effect on the reward, of coming and going from any PPLNS pool, is zero.

Any pool that uses some other calculation for determining how long it takes to reward a share - which is what the 'perceived' ramp up and down actually is - would have to verify that their function isn't hoppable, like PPLNS isn't hoppable at all except across diff changes.

SPLNS doesn't have a linear reward to the amount of work done, it instead applies an effectively random reward based on the random difficulty result (luck) of a found share. That random weighting is of course known after the share is found.
Some ananlysis of that, and the math used to affect the delayed payouts, would be necessary before considering it not hoppable.
e.g. what effect does coming and going from the pool after you find a very high difficulty share, or a long run of low difficulty shares ... etc.
Of course if the pool is rewarding the shares at the time a block is found, and blocks are expected to be found with long delays between them, then it all becomes a moot point, since the shares almost always lose a large amount of value due to that long delay, thus the hopping result simply becomes: don't ever mine on the pool.
That SPLNS pool also has no statistical analysis of shares submitted, to determine if there is purposeful or accidental withholding of shares and blocks.
It has no share history other than a single value, stored in a text file, at any particular point in time.

In years gone by, some pools used the PROP reward system, which turned out to be hoppable by mining up to the 43.5% diff mark and then always leaving at that point until the next pool block.
This ensured the miner received a higher reward per share than the miners who continued to mine after the 43.5% diff mark, thus short term miners were effectively taking rewards from long term miners.
This was a good example to show that making any assumptions about a payout scheme was a bad idea ... as I myself made about PROP at the time that analysis was done, and indeed learned from my mistake Smiley

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
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oawan
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August 30, 2017, 05:27:43 AM
 #31

I like Kano's pool, but I think the only criticism would be for a small miner, the fact that Kano's pool will send you 1 payment for every block found.  While it doesn't charge you a fee for this, it will cost you more in fees to spend the coin.  For a small miner this will definitely be more than the 1.1% more that slush's pool charges. 

Of course you partially/mostly avoid this by waiting for a time when the network is not congested and trying to do a consolidation payment with 5 sat/byte.  It would probably get confirmed.  But just be aware there will be long periods of time when the mempool is full where your funds will essentially be frozen, requiring a very high fee to spend (or to use a transaction accelerator from a competing pool)

Also from an ecosystem perspective, it does generate more transactions than necessary on the network and confirming the payouts in the next blocks found does sometimes displace paying transactions resulting in a very small reduction in earnings for the pool. 

That being said I still think Kano's pool is best (for a medium-large miner who would be less affected by the transaction fee issue). 
xuy
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August 31, 2017, 08:48:28 PM
 #32

I like Kano's pool, but I think the only criticism would be for a small miner, the fact that Kano's pool will send you 1 payment for every block found.  While it doesn't charge you a fee for this, it will cost you more in fees to spend the coin.  For a small miner this will definitely be more than the 1.1% more that slush's pool charges. 

Of course you partially/mostly avoid this by waiting for a time when the network is not congested and trying to do a consolidation payment with 5 sat/byte.  It would probably get confirmed.  But just be aware there will be long periods of time when the mempool is full where your funds will essentially be frozen, requiring a very high fee to spend (or to use a transaction accelerator from a competing pool)

Also from an ecosystem perspective, it does generate more transactions than necessary on the network and confirming the payouts in the next blocks found does sometimes displace paying transactions resulting in a very small reduction in earnings for the pool. 

That being said I still think Kano's pool is best (for a medium-large miner who would be less affected by the transaction fee issue). 

For example, all my small earnings go to Coinbase. When I sell it, do I need to pay more on transaction fee? A while back, I sent earnings to BTC.com. Then later I wanted to send it to Coinbase, the transaction fee is like 15%. Does Coinbase consolidate the smaller earning for you?
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September 02, 2017, 04:39:49 AM
 #33

I just joined Kano's pool. It is my first time mining and I currently only have one Avalon 741 running.

Was this a bad choice with the dust and frequent payouts since I have such a low hash rate?
greyworld
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September 02, 2017, 05:45:48 AM
 #34

I just joined Kano's pool. It is my first time mining and I currently only have one Avalon 741 running.

Was this a bad choice with the dust and frequent payouts since I have such a low hash rate?


I think my answer is probably obvious so I'll skip it.

As long as you stay connected the dust won't be.... a huge big deal.  But do yourself a favor and keep track of it, after a couple weeks, figure out what percentage of your earnings it represents.  I'd be interested to hear the numbers you come up with.

'¸ __ ¸*ˆ * ·¸ ____ ¸*ˆ*· ¸ ______________________ ¸ ·*ˆ*¸ ____ ¸· * ˆ*¸ __ ¸'
. `·.,¸¸,.' .CKPOOL.ORG - Zero Fee Anonymous Bitcoin Mining Pool´ . . . '.,¸¸,.·´ .
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ `·.,¸¸,' ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ',¸¸,.·´ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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October 23, 2017, 02:21:03 PM
 #35

I just joined Kano's pool. It is my first time mining and I currently only have one Avalon 741 running.

Was this a bad choice with the dust and frequent payouts since I have such a low hash rate?


I have the same - depending on when you joined and when a block is found, you might get dust payments for your first payment or so. After that, i can confidently say that your rewards will be well above the dust threshold so you will get paid every time a block is found.

When/if you leave the pool, towards the end of your ramp down time it may be that you only get a dust reward also.

In a nutshell - i do not think pool hopping with a single miner will be for your benefit to mine with Kano pool as you will likely earn dust payments more frequently. However, if you intend to keep with the same pool for some time, then it will not be an issue.

This is for you to decide your own fate!

Made you look!
andytranter
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October 23, 2017, 02:23:37 PM
 #36

I just joined Kano's pool. It is my first time mining and I currently only have one Avalon 741 running.

Was this a bad choice with the dust and frequent payouts since I have such a low hash rate?

I would be interested to know as well.  I am currently mining with at 1.0 TH/s and have only gotten (2) "dust" payments and would like to know what minimum Th/S necessary to bother mining there.

I'm sure i've seen 600GHS mentioned as the threshold (i cant comment if that is accurate or not). A few months back i was mining with a 1.1 THS S5 that was way above the dust threshold after it had ramped up - this should be between 2.6 and 3 days. However, depending on if pool size increases your reward might fall below the threshold.

Made you look!
NeuralChris
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October 24, 2017, 12:24:46 AM
 #37

I say go with slush, I've mined on both and whole slush might take more fees, it finds several blocks a day and you make more. When I jumped into Kano, it took over 100 hours to find a block, now they're sitting close to 40 hours. In that 40 hour timeframe, slush has found 26 blocks.
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October 31, 2017, 02:13:19 AM
 #38

Can anyone give me an example of what one S9 will make on Kano per day... I was on slush then tried Antpool for 2 days and Antpool sucks, so I am trying Kano now .
NeuralChris
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October 31, 2017, 07:19:41 AM
 #39

It depends, since they haven't found a valid block for about 4 days, you'll make zero those days.  When you do find a block, at the current hashrate, you should get around .00298892 BTC depending on the size of the block.
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October 31, 2017, 06:46:07 PM
 #40

I have mined at both pools. Slush was the first pool I ever mined on and even found a block there. I left it years ago due to the fact that the payout system every now and then would payout the wrong amounts. About 4-5 times myself and many other miners would get short changed on payouts and others got way to much. Once I was on the overpay and you never could get an answer from Slush so I left. He may have fixed that problem as it's been a longtime but I have never had trusted the payout since.

I have mined at Kanos pool and it always paid me and I found it to be a very well ran pool. The only down fall is when the pools total hash rate drops to a point you are waiting days to find a block and it crosses difficulty changes it seems you are losing out. But as any small pool it's a  psychology point of going days without getting anything that makes it hard to stay put. But if I had to chose only between these 2 pools it would be Kano's.

Unlock my old account please:
Aurel57
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