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Author Topic: Visa and Banks After BTC  (Read 5819 times)
cypherdoc
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June 23, 2011, 05:05:52 PM
 #41

these banksters are having more and more battles to fight and even though they are quite a daunting adversary they are losing steam and breaking down behind the scenes. They will attempt all they can to maintain their face through fear, and the more they try and the bigger their stunt the more we realise how week and desperate they are and not the other way round. Fear is a very very weak level of power and I remain utterly convinced that this control system is done with one way or another and the world will be rid of these parasites gradually in a manner that we collectively can handle. I expect and contribute my thoughts and action to the dismantlement of this illusion.

+1
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noedaRDH
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June 23, 2011, 05:39:51 PM
 #42

these banksters are having more and more battles to fight and even though they are quite a daunting adversary they are losing steam and breaking down behind the scenes. They will attempt all they can to maintain their face through fear, and the more they try and the bigger their stunt the more we realise how week and desperate they are and not the other way round. Fear is a very very weak level of power and I remain utterly convinced that this control system is done with one way or another and the world will be rid of these parasites gradually in a manner that we collectively can handle. I expect and contribute my thoughts and action to the dismantlement of this illusion.

+1
The fearful and the uneducated make up the masses. Maybe most people just don't want to look for a different path.

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Ask not what Bitcoin can do for you - ask what you can do for Bitcoin.
finnthecelt
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June 23, 2011, 06:14:54 PM
 #43

these banksters are having more and more battles to fight and even though they are quite a daunting adversary they are losing steam and breaking down behind the scenes. They will attempt all they can to maintain their face through fear, and the more they try and the bigger their stunt the more we realise how week and desperate they are and not the other way round. Fear is a very very weak level of power and I remain utterly convinced that this control system is done with one way or another and the world will be rid of these parasites gradually in a manner that we collectively can handle. I expect and contribute my thoughts and action to the dismantlement of this illusion.

+1
The fearful and the uneducated make up the masses. Maybe most people just don't want to look for a different path.

First you have to know there's a different path and that it's valid. If you notice the disinformation agents embed themselves in a group of "tin foil" hat wearing conspiracy theorists to trivialize their ideas so others don't take them seriously.

It seems on these boards the idea is to disrupt conversation and turn the community agains one another. We must  be careful to not be too harsh with each other. I think the topica of this board is valid. It doesn't matter who the "sources" are.

The point is that if it is not happening, it will. Given the numer of trolls on these boards we can only assume it is.
RodeoX
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June 23, 2011, 06:45:15 PM
 #44

If the banks and credit card companies "go after" bitcoin it will not be with DoS attacks or any such nonsense. It will be quietly and calmly discussed between attorneys and lobbyists. They will develop a rational legal case against BTC and present it to authorities.
If you want to fight their efforts you will need to do the same. Quick witted one-liners and crazy conspiracy theories may win a flame war on the internet, but they won't even be entertained by a court.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
Litt
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June 23, 2011, 07:10:43 PM
 #45

these banksters are having more and more battles to fight and even though they are quite a daunting adversary they are losing steam and breaking down behind the scenes. They will attempt all they can to maintain their face through fear, and the more they try and the bigger their stunt the more we realise how week and desperate they are and not the other way round. Fear is a very very weak level of power and I remain utterly convinced that this control system is done with one way or another and the world will be rid of these parasites gradually in a manner that we collectively can handle. I expect and contribute my thoughts and action to the dismantlement of this illusion.

+1
The fearful and the uneducated make up the masses. Maybe most people just don't want to look for a different path.

Exactly why we must educate the uneducated. It will be slow at first, but it will exponentially pick up speed as more and more people share their information and knowledge with others. The information revolution and the development of internet have set the stage for bitcoin to now be availble to the world. But the duty of spreading this treasure of a knowledge with the uneducated lies within each of us. More people we share about bitcoin with the better everyone will be off at the end. I mean this not only as a metaphorical grand scheme sense, but also in a monetary standing terms for every individual involved and invested in bitcoin's success. It's by design.

The most important difference now is that more and more people are becoming aware that something is wrong with the current economic system. They just really need someone to show them what it is that is truly plaguing the current system and how bitcoin can be an answer to many of it's shortcomings.
RodeoX
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June 23, 2011, 07:24:13 PM
 #46

If the banks and credit card companies "go after" bitcoin it will not be with DoS attacks or any such nonsense. It will be quietly and calmly discussed between attorneys and lobbyists. They will develop a rational legal case against BTC and present it to authorities.
If you want to fight their efforts you will need to do the same. Quick witted one-liners and crazy conspiracy theories may win a flame war on the internet, but they won't even be entertained by a court.

You mean like the RIAA has done with P2P file sharing?

There has been calm and rational, but it has gone hand-in-hand with low and dirty, with lawyers, technical and security experts, and lobbyists. As it turns out, courts and legislation have only been marginally effective. Margins that are easy enough to move around by a motivated public fueled by outrage.

That is certainly a good point. We could just ignore them. If we do I think BTC will continue to have some value among some people. But for very wide adoption it will need to be legal.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
noedaRDH
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June 23, 2011, 07:34:52 PM
 #47

these banksters are having more and more battles to fight and even though they are quite a daunting adversary they are losing steam and breaking down behind the scenes. They will attempt all they can to maintain their face through fear, and the more they try and the bigger their stunt the more we realise how week and desperate they are and not the other way round. Fear is a very very weak level of power and I remain utterly convinced that this control system is done with one way or another and the world will be rid of these parasites gradually in a manner that we collectively can handle. I expect and contribute my thoughts and action to the dismantlement of this illusion.

+1
The fearful and the uneducated make up the masses. Maybe most people just don't want to look for a different path.

Exactly why we must educate the uneducated. It will be slow at first, but it will exponentially pick up speed as more and more people share their information and knowledge with others. The information revolution and the development of internet have set the stage for bitcoin to now be availble to the world. But the duty of spreading this treasure of a knowledge with the uneducated lies within each of us. More people we share about bitcoin with the better everyone will be off at the end. I mean this not only as a metaphorical grand scheme sense, but also in a monetary standing terms for every individual involved and invested in bitcoin's success. It's by design.

The most important difference now is that more and more people are becoming aware that something is wrong with the current economic system. They just really need someone to show them what it is that is truly plaguing the current system and how bitcoin can be an answer to many of it's shortcomings.
But do they want to be educated? Have you seen some of the hate videos and comments that's been going around on Youtube? It's like teaching pigs to fly. I think the biggest barrier of all is that Bitcoin is so new, so much of a polar opposite of "normal" currency, and way above the technicality of your average joe, that by the time that they might get the idea, those in position of powers would have already killed it.

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Ask not what Bitcoin can do for you - ask what you can do for Bitcoin.
RodeoX
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June 23, 2011, 07:49:10 PM
 #48

For very wide adoption it will need to work better than other methods. Right now, if you have to send funds internationally, the bar for Bitcoin might even be lower than other, more expensive, complex, and legally recognized methods. Functionality will drive adoption of Bitcoin and similar methods. Any legal, or other obstacle, would have to actually target the functionality of Bitcoin for it to be effective.
 

I have done some venture capitol investing. Quite successfully in fact. And I have done very well with bitcoin. But many people will not even consider using BTC if it is illegal. Businesses/investors will will risk much less capitol on BTC. Scammers will see the lack of legal protection for users and move in. I would not put $100k of my money into such a shark tank. However if it had some legal protection, I might.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
cypherdoc
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June 23, 2011, 08:35:10 PM
 #49

For very wide adoption it will need to work better than other methods. Right now, if you have to send funds internationally, the bar for Bitcoin might even be lower than other, more expensive, complex, and legally recognized methods. Functionality will drive adoption of Bitcoin and similar methods. Any legal, or other obstacle, would have to actually target the functionality of Bitcoin for it to be effective.
 

I have done some venture capitol investing. Quite successfully in fact. And I have done very well with bitcoin. But many people will not even consider using BTC if it is illegal. Businesses/investors will will risk much less capitol on BTC. Scammers will see the lack of legal protection for users and move in. I would not put $100k of my money into such a shark tank. However if it had some legal protection, I might.


ah yes.  but this is how you make real money.  investing when there is fear, uncertainty, doubt.  i don't see how the gubmint gets away with declaring btc illegal.  there is just no good argument for it.  yes, they can huff, puff, stomp around about drugs, sex, porn, assassination but knowledgeable ppl will laugh in their faces.

ppl complain about the whipsaws but what do you expect for a fledgling currency?  as long as the block chain remains intact, we are good.  and i think it will be as i think it would have been broken by now. 

and as for taking over 50% of the network?  have you seen the network figures recently?  insane!  45x the biggest supercomputer in the world?  i think its unbreakable.
ElectricMonk
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June 23, 2011, 09:02:28 PM
 #50

Let's look at the game theory...

You're in a senior position within a bank.
You hear about Bitcoin.
You think it will be a success. (At least to the point where it threatens the dominance of current banks i.e. VERY SUCCESSFUL)

You have at least two options...

1. Construct a complex and expensive clandestine group to destroy Bitcoin from the inside.

OR

2. Buy some Bitcoin now and reap the rewards of being an early adopter and make a comparably trivial loss if it fails.

On that basis, what the OP is suggesting is RIDICULOUS!

PS. I'm a libertarian who's keen to see the current government backed, crony capitalist, banking oligarchy smashed. Libertarianism would be great and might actually get somewhere if it didn't attract so many nutty conspiracy theorists.
qualia8
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June 23, 2011, 09:50:15 PM
 #51

Let's look at the game theory...

You're in a senior position within a bank.
You hear about Bitcoin.
You think it will be a success. (At least to the point where it threatens the dominance of current banks i.e. VERY SUCCESSFUL)

You have at least two options...

1. Construct a complex and expensive clandestine group to destroy Bitcoin from the inside.

OR

2. Buy some Bitcoin now and reap the rewards of being an early adopter and make a comparably trivial loss if it fails.

On that basis, what the OP is suggesting is RIDICULOUS!

PS. I'm a libertarian who's keen to see the current government backed, crony capitalist, banking oligarchy smashed. Libertarianism would be great and might actually get somewhere if it didn't attract so many nutty conspiracy theorists.

These are not mutually exclusive choices, just as the standard "high road" legal / poltical / PR route does not forbid the "low road" hack-fest.  A top hedge fund manager could personally buy up the entire BTC market with a fraction of one year's salary.  It's also cheap to pay, through back channels, a handful of hackers a million bucks a pop to destroy it.  That's actually far cheaper than lobbying Congress.

I'm also not sure you understand the advantage of a monopoly on money with the Federal Reserve.  The ability to control the money supply, decide who gets access to the discount window and who doesn't... this is more than just getting rich, it's serious political power.  Believe me, banksters don't want to relinquish such control, even for the promise of being bitcoin billionaires.

I expect the banks to take an "all of the above" approach.  And it will still be a pittance to them.
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June 23, 2011, 10:05:31 PM
 #52

The point I'm trying to make is that if you think Bitcoin will be a huge success then it'd be much better to buy bitcoin than try to harm it. MUCH better. As a strategy, I can't see why anyone would hold both positions.

What would you do?
qualia8
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June 23, 2011, 10:23:21 PM
 #53

The point I'm trying to make is that if you think Bitcoin will be a huge success then it'd be much better to buy bitcoin than try to harm it. MUCH better. As a strategy, I can't see why anyone would hold both positions.

What would you do?

I hope you're right.  If THEY buy in, we'll be headed to $1k / BTC soon.
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June 23, 2011, 11:34:15 PM
 #54

How to not be scared of BTCs as a bank:

1. Use a day's profits to buy lots of mining hardware, go.
2. Use a second day's profits to start buying up all the BTC available.
3. Wait until ALL btc are mined.
Huh
4. Have more money than god.
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June 23, 2011, 11:38:31 PM
 #55

How to not be scared of BTCs as a bank:

1. Use a day's profits to buy lots of mining hardware, go.
2. Use a second day's profits to start buying up all the BTC available.
3. Wait until ALL btc are mined.
Huh
4. Have more money than god.

Until God steals it. God invented the orgasm, so for God to bruteforce the bank's private keys and spend all the coins would be trivial!

"MOOOOOOOM! SOME MYTHICAL WOLFBEAST GUY IS MAKING FUN OF ME ON THE INTERNET!!!!"
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June 23, 2011, 11:48:24 PM
 #56

How to not be scared of BTCs as a bank:

1. Use a day's profits to buy lots of mining hardware, go.
2. Use a second day's profits to start buying up all the BTC available.
3. Wait until ALL btc are mined.
Huh
4. Have more money than god the Church.


Until God steals it. God invented the orgasm, so for God to bruteforce the bank's private keys and spend all the coins would be trivial!

Sorry, fixed it.

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June 23, 2011, 11:51:50 PM
 #57

my sources tell me you are a HOMUNCULI

wolftaur
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June 23, 2011, 11:52:56 PM
 #58

Sorry, fixed it.

Until they invent Faithcoin, anyway. Or Pedocoin.

"MOOOOOOOM! SOME MYTHICAL WOLFBEAST GUY IS MAKING FUN OF ME ON THE INTERNET!!!!"
qualia8
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June 24, 2011, 12:10:34 AM
 #59



Until they invent Faithcoin, anyway. Or Pedocoin.


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