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Author Topic: [2017-08-29] Dark web finds bitcoin increasingly more of a problem than a help  (Read 10863 times)
Karartma1
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August 30, 2017, 06:31:39 AM
 #1

Criminals are dropping bitcoin in favor of other digital currencies that are harder for law enforcement to use in tracking activities in an anonymous corner of the internet known as the dark web, analysts said.

Although hard numbers on criminal activity in digital currencies are difficult to pin down, Shone Anstey, co-founder and president of Blockchain Intelligence Group, estimates that illegal transactions in bitcoin have fallen from about half of total volume to about 20 percent last year.

More @ https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/29/dark-web-finds-bitcoin-increasingly-more-of-a-problem-than-a-help-tries-other-digital-currencies.html

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August 30, 2017, 09:59:13 AM
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This is very good news. Adoption of bitcoin depends on this. In governments eyes bitcoin was way for paying in criminal activities. Now, bitcoin is surely money better than anything else. If we want strong coin,he must be supported by the government not by criminals.
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August 30, 2017, 10:34:14 AM
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If we want strong coin,he must be supported by the government not by criminals.

First of all, only idiots blame the tool for abuse by criminals. Secondly, it was just a matter of time before people dealing in dark webs would make the shift to something like Monero. Bitcoin is a horrible currency tool when it comes to the privacy aspect, and for that reason, I expected the shift to other crypto's to pick up sooner. I some times stumble over the stupidity of people around me, where they talk about how anonymous Bitcoin is, while in fact they completely ignore (due to a lack of knowledge) that everything they do can be easily tracked. And another thing, governments don't actually support Bitcoin at all. In best case scenario, they just regulate and legislate its usage.

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August 30, 2017, 11:17:09 AM
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If we want strong coin,he must be supported by the government not by criminals.

First of all, only idiots blame the tool for abuse by criminals. Secondly, it was just a matter of time before people dealing in dark webs would make the shift to something like Monero. Bitcoin is a horrible currency tool when it comes to the privacy aspect, and for that reason, I expected the shift to other crypto's to pick up sooner. I some times stumble over the stupidity of people around me, where they talk about how anonymous Bitcoin is, while in fact they completely ignore (due to a lack of knowledge) that everything they do can be easily tracked. And another thing, governments don't actually support Bitcoin at all. In best case scenario, they just regulate and legislate its usage.

Agree, Monero offers more anonymity as compared to bitcoin. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous and everything can be track in blockchain, although a mixing services can be used, still its very easy for government to seize the server and get all the necessary logs like I.P. address and relevant info.

Monero on the other hand is different because every transaction is always private. hide where the money comes from. Spent inputs in a transaction are hidden among several others that also appear to be spent. Thus, no one knows which source of money is actually being spent. So if I'm a criminal I would rather use Monero than bitcoin.



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August 30, 2017, 04:26:01 PM
 #5

Now, bitcoin is surely money better than anything else.
Are you delusional?  We're talking about a large amount of people at real merchants paying with BTC, and they're complaining about BTC because it's not working well as a monetary system.

Somehow you're trying to argue that a large number of customers disliking BTC as a payment system would make it a better payment system.  With good money, people can do what they want, which is why physical cash is used so much for crime.

Last time I checked though, BTC is still used for the majority of darknet transactions.  I had a look at Alpha Bay a couple of months before it closed down out of curiosity, and most of the offers there were from people only accepting Bitcoin (although Alpha Bay had wallets for ETH, Monero and ZCash as well).

On first sight you'd think that CNBC actually knows what they're talking about.  Here are a couple of glaringly obvious errors in their article:
Quote
A representative from monero did not respond to email and Twitter requests for comment.
They imply that cryptocurrencies have "representatives" as if there's just one team that you can contact.  On the video, it just says that "Monero" didn't respond to their queries.
Quote
Unlike the open transaction record of bitcoin, monero's technology hides the name of the sender, amount and receiver.
Bitcoin does not show the name of anyone.  What they mean is that it shows is a pseudonym called an address, which is far away from showing anyone's actual name.  Sure, people can often be traced, but BTC doesn't just reveal that information.


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August 30, 2017, 04:41:39 PM
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All kinds of upgrades are possible with segwit script versioning, a big one is privacy improvements. 
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August 30, 2017, 05:34:31 PM
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This is somehow good to reputation of Bitcoin as other saw that Bitcoin is used in illegal activity especially on Darkwebs.  Now that lots of users found Bitcoin to be traceable if they happen to link their  identity to it such as an online exchange or some entrapment is done when bitcoin conversion is done thru in person trade.  It would be great that the mark of being used in illegal activity is clear out of Bitcoin for mainstream adoption.
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August 30, 2017, 05:41:05 PM
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I believe it's not only the fact that it can be tracked by every node. The high fee factor and due to this big portion of transactions moves to other altcoins and that's not only case for dark web but for normal merchants also.

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August 31, 2017, 06:37:19 AM
 #9

High fees certainly play a major role in this whole matter but that is true for the market at large. Either way, the more bitcoins leave the Dark Web the better it will be for the overall reputation of this ecosystem. A lot of money is flowing into bitcoin right now and I prefer they will go to investors instead of drug dealers.

I want high prices not "high" people

I am not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it. Niccolò Machiavelli
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August 31, 2017, 07:06:44 AM
 #10

If we want strong coin,he must be supported by the government not by criminals.

First of all, only idiots blame the tool for abuse by criminals. Secondly, it was just a matter of time before people dealing in dark webs would make the shift to something like Monero. Bitcoin is a horrible currency tool when it comes to the privacy aspect, and for that reason, I expected the shift to other crypto's to pick up sooner. I some times stumble over the stupidity of people around me, where they talk about how anonymous Bitcoin is, while in fact they completely ignore (due to a lack of knowledge) that everything they do can be easily tracked. And another thing, governments don't actually support Bitcoin at all. In best case scenario, they just regulate and legislate its usage.
I agree to this, as of now bitcoin cannot provide privacy as much as monero , but as for the upcoming updates i think this will be fixed and will be upgraded to provide a better privacy.

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August 31, 2017, 07:14:08 AM
 #11

If we want strong coin,he must be supported by the government not by criminals.

First of all, only idiots blame the tool for abuse by criminals. Secondly, it was just a matter of time before people dealing in dark webs would make the shift to something like Monero. Bitcoin is a horrible currency tool when it comes to the privacy aspect, and for that reason, I expected the shift to other crypto's to pick up sooner. I some times stumble over the stupidity of people around me, where they talk about how anonymous Bitcoin is, while in fact they completely ignore (due to a lack of knowledge) that everything they do can be easily tracked. And another thing, governments don't actually support Bitcoin at all. In best case scenario, they just regulate and legislate its usage.

Agree, Monero offers more anonymity as compared to bitcoin. Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous and everything can be track in blockchain, although a mixing services can be used, still its very easy for government to seize the server and get all the necessary logs like I.P. address and relevant info.

Monero on the other hand is different because every transaction is always private. hide where the money comes from. Spent inputs in a transaction are hidden among several others that also appear to be spent. Thus, no one knows which source of money is actually being spent. So if I'm a criminal I would rather use Monero than bitcoin.
Don't forget that criminals using deep web don't use their local IP,they use Tor browser which makes them totally anonymous by having a strong proxy system and features like disabling Java/malicious ads/files/cookies/Html5 etc...
In other words if criminals use mixing services even if the government seize the servers they won't be able to track the criminal if he used Tor browser to use the mixer service.

However it was obvious that they will switch to another cryptocurrency more  anonymous than Bitcoin and less fee consuming.This may be a good thing since Bitcoin need government support,not criminals support.

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August 31, 2017, 07:32:09 AM
 #12

This is somehow good to reputation of Bitcoin as other saw that Bitcoin is used in illegal activity especially on Darkwebs.  Now that lots of users found Bitcoin to be traceable if they happen to link their  identity to it such as an online exchange or some entrapment is done when bitcoin conversion is done thru in person trade.  It would be great that the mark of being used in illegal activity is clear out of Bitcoin for mainstream adoption.
Exactly, now Bitcoin's reputation will be better as the time goes by, without linking it to illegal activities may give bitcoin's a chance to globalize it's popularity and make casual users attracted to it, which will made a rise on bitcoin users.

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August 31, 2017, 09:23:24 AM
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I want high prices not "high" people

Bitcoin need government support,not criminals support.


You've got no clue what Bitcoin is really about


Bitcoin is designed to allow people to choose what they do with their money, free from morality (which is different depending on the person), and free from violent organisations that impose choices on you.


You don't belong here, and don't deserve to have gained from the rises in Bitcoin's value. You are wishing violence and theft on people that have not harmed you at all, and are likley harming only themselves (and, in many cases, simply enjoying themselves).

You should be ashamed of yourselves

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August 31, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
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...
Don't forget that criminals using deep web don't use their local IP,they use Tor browser which makes them totally anonymous by having a strong proxy system and features like disabling Java/malicious ads/files/cookies/Html5 etc...
In other words if criminals use mixing services even if the government seize the servers they won't be able to track the criminal if he used Tor browser to use the mixer service.

...

You are aware that the TOR browser may not be as anonymous as you think? There are rumours and reports that several intelligence services over the world
(e.g. the CIA) are operating a non-negligible percentage of the entry nodes of the TOR network. By doing this they can identify the
real IP address of a certain percentage of TOR users.

Of course TOR is still more secure than regular browsers, but 100 % anonymity isn´t possible with TOR either!

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August 31, 2017, 04:10:28 PM
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So finally Governments would no longer stress on Bitcoin being the currency of illegal market. Bitcoin since its inception is carrying the stigma of being a currency of darkweb. Many people tend to avoid Bitcoin for the same. These statistics are indeed great and would help in driving the growth in demand. Also, now Government can think positively about Bitcoin as the major reason for banning Bitcoin is reducing sharply.
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August 31, 2017, 05:56:56 PM
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I want high prices not "high" people

Bitcoin need government support,not criminals support.


You've got no clue what Bitcoin is really about


Bitcoin is designed to allow people to choose what they do with their money, free from morality (which is different depending on the person), and free from violent organisations that impose choices on you.


You don't belong here, and don't deserve to have gained from the rises in Bitcoin's value. You are wishing violence and theft on people that have not harmed you at all, and are likley harming only themselves (and, in many cases, simply enjoying themselves).

You should be ashamed of yourselves
Hey Carlton, that's sad coming from you. I value your words a lot and I'm a bit confused.
I didn't wish any violence or theft about no one. I think you misunderstood me.

Edit: think I got your point but I didn't mean it that way. Roll Eyes


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August 31, 2017, 07:07:29 PM
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Hey Carlton, that's sad coming from you. I value your words a lot and I'm a bit confused.
I didn't wish any violence or theft about no one. I think you misunderstood me.

Edit: think I got your point but I didn't mean it that way. Roll Eyes



Well, I owe you an apology, I was too quick to admonish you in that post, you didn't specifically advocate using the dominant legal system to solve the problem you're seeing.


But maybe I should have said this: be careful what you wish for.

Bitcoin is designed to be unstoppable in various ways, and of course people will use those features to realise their view of what's right and wrong in their eyes.

So if you don't like drug dealers being a part of the investment capital for Bitcoin's exchange rate, you're using the wrong type of money. We, as Bitcoiners, must accept that all classes of moral behaviours will find their economic trading manifested in deals for BTC, it's a feature, not a bug.



The danger to you (and all of us) is that people will classify you and your questionable moral use of Bitcoin as something to target.

Here's an easy one: what if people who missed out on Bitcoin decide that people becoming wealthy is in itself an immoral act, and that you should give it away to those deserving people that don't have any! I mean, you were just lucky! Not to mention greedy...

So, as I said, be careful for what you wish for. "An attack on freedom anywhere is an attack on freedom everywhere". First they came for the drug dealers, etc

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September 01, 2017, 06:16:34 AM
 #18

Yes, that's it! You don't need no apology, it was good to reflect on your words.
Let me close with:
Quote
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it
Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Thank you


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September 02, 2017, 05:52:49 AM
 #19

Hey Carlton, that's sad coming from you. I value your words a lot and I'm a bit confused.
I didn't wish any violence or theft about no one. I think you misunderstood me.

Edit: think I got your point but I didn't mean it that way. Roll Eyes



Well, I owe you an apology, I was too quick to admonish you in that post, you didn't specifically advocate using the dominant legal system to solve the problem you're seeing.


But maybe I should have said this: be careful what you wish for.

Bitcoin is designed to be unstoppable in various ways, and of course people will use those features to realise their view of what's right and wrong in their eyes.

So if you don't like drug dealers being a part of the investment capital for Bitcoin's exchange rate, you're using the wrong type of money. We, as Bitcoiners, must accept that all classes of moral behaviours will find their economic trading manifested in deals for BTC, it's a feature, not a bug.



The danger to you (and all of us) is that people will classify you and your questionable moral use of Bitcoin as something to target.

Here's an easy one: what if people who missed out on Bitcoin decide that people becoming wealthy is in itself an immoral act, and that you should give it away to those deserving people that don't have any! I mean, you were just lucky! Not to mention greedy...

So, as I said, be careful for what you wish for. "An attack on freedom anywhere is an attack on freedom everywhere". First they came for the drug dealers, etc
I've learned something today, thak you for this post sir.  okay, this is not spam but i think this post give me something to learn from.  I am advocate of legalization of bitcoin on my country but not on regulation of the Government, this post gave me a notification on what bitcoin really is and it's usage.  Again, Thank you.

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September 02, 2017, 06:40:08 PM
 #20

I read an article recently that also highlighted the fact that a criminal would be pretty stupid to use Bitcoin as mode of value transfer mechanism for his illegal activities. The open character of the protocol makes it quite easy to retrace transactions on the blockchain. Second, I understand that major coin exchangers (e.g., shapeshift, changely) do not have a problem to hold on to coins obtained from 'blacklisted' bitcoin addresses if the address is suspect to hold illegally obtained funds.

Bitcoin's transparency is one of the features that will help Bitcoin's further acceptance. The idea that criminals evade the use of Bitcoin (because transparent) could give it a further token of legitimacy.

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DeepOnion
.Anonymous and Untraceable.
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