subvolatil (OP)
|
|
November 21, 2013, 03:19:45 PM |
|
Interesting thread. Has anyone actually declared an income from their bitcoins in their IT filings. I will be most interested in knowing especially if I profit from this down the road.
I realize that a number of people don't need to pay taxes primarily because they don't trade or make significant enough profits to declare but for those that have filed, what ITR forms have you submitted.
I know that people having regular incomes and interests file ITR1 form. Those that also have rentals file ITR2. I also know that regular stock, intra day traders file ITR4 where they show profits and write off losses, deduct operation expenses etc. Bitcoins are still ill defined as far as Indian taxes are considered. Should it be filed as a short term capital gain. How does one off set expenses incurred in hardware and electricity in the tax returns? Or if he has purchased the Bitcoin, he should only be paying a capital gains tax on the profits.
Eventually I hope the authorities are going to make this clear once they see the volume of people using Bitcoins in India.
Well the current understanding would make the declaration as a Capital gain (depending on the time you held the BTC long term or short term.) . Income Tax Slabs Income Tax Rates Where Total Income does not exceed Rs. 2,00,000 NIL Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 2,00,000 but does not exceed Rs. 5,00,000 10% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 2,00,000 Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 5,00,000 but does not exceed Rs. 10,00,000 20% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 5,00,000 Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 10,00,000 30% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 10,00,000
|
|
|
|
lonsharim
|
|
November 22, 2013, 05:07:58 AM |
|
Interesting thread. Has anyone actually declared an income from their bitcoins in their IT filings. I will be most interested in knowing especially if I profit from this down the road.
I realize that a number of people don't need to pay taxes primarily because they don't trade or make significant enough profits to declare but for those that have filed, what ITR forms have you submitted.
I know that people having regular incomes and interests file ITR1 form. Those that also have rentals file ITR2. I also know that regular stock, intra day traders file ITR4 where they show profits and write off losses, deduct operation expenses etc. Bitcoins are still ill defined as far as Indian taxes are considered. Should it be filed as a short term capital gain. How does one off set expenses incurred in hardware and electricity in the tax returns? Or if he has purchased the Bitcoin, he should only be paying a capital gains tax on the profits.
Eventually I hope the authorities are going to make this clear once they see the volume of people using Bitcoins in India.
Well the current understanding would make the declaration as a Capital gain (depending on the time you held the BTC long term or short term.) . Income Tax Slabs Income Tax Rates Where Total Income does not exceed Rs. 2,00,000 NIL Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 2,00,000 but does not exceed Rs. 5,00,000 10% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 2,00,000 Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 5,00,000 but does not exceed Rs. 10,00,000 20% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 5,00,000 Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 10,00,000 30% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 10,00,000 I doubt if it is as simple as adding profits to your existing incomes and figure out which slab you fall under. It would not apply for Long Term CG Leaving aside the details of what type of capital it is (property or stock for instance) or if it should be eligible for indexation, long term CG has a flat tax rate of 20% regardless of what tax slab you will normally fall under. The significance of inquiring about the ITR Form meant for Traders is that it will allow many tax benefits for those who repeatedly buy and sell, including expenses and off setting losses. It occurred to me later that it will not be possible because these are unregulated trades and hence don't have STT charges.
|
|
|
|
subvolatil (OP)
|
|
November 22, 2013, 05:23:36 AM |
|
Interesting thread. Has anyone actually declared an income from their bitcoins in their IT filings. I will be most interested in knowing especially if I profit from this down the road.
I realize that a number of people don't need to pay taxes primarily because they don't trade or make significant enough profits to declare but for those that have filed, what ITR forms have you submitted.
I know that people having regular incomes and interests file ITR1 form. Those that also have rentals file ITR2. I also know that regular stock, intra day traders file ITR4 where they show profits and write off losses, deduct operation expenses etc. Bitcoins are still ill defined as far as Indian taxes are considered. Should it be filed as a short term capital gain. How does one off set expenses incurred in hardware and electricity in the tax returns? Or if he has purchased the Bitcoin, he should only be paying a capital gains tax on the profits.
Eventually I hope the authorities are going to make this clear once they see the volume of people using Bitcoins in India.
Well the current understanding would make the declaration as a Capital gain (depending on the time you held the BTC long term or short term.) . Income Tax Slabs Income Tax Rates Where Total Income does not exceed Rs. 2,00,000 NIL Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 2,00,000 but does not exceed Rs. 5,00,000 10% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 2,00,000 Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 5,00,000 but does not exceed Rs. 10,00,000 20% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 5,00,000 Where the Total Income exceeds Rs. 10,00,000 30% of the Amount by which it exceeds Rs. 10,00,000 I doubt if it is as simple as adding profits to your existing incomes and figure out which slab you fall under. It would not apply for Long Term CG Leaving aside the details of what type of capital it is (property or stock for instance) or if it should be eligible for indexation, long term CG has a flat tax rate of 20% regardless of what tax slab you will normally fall under. The significance of inquiring about the ITR Form meant for Traders is that it will allow many tax benefits for those who repeatedly buy and sell, including expenses and off setting losses. It occurred to me later that it will not be possible because these are unregulated trades and hence don't have STT charges. Long term CG applies to assets you hold for 36 months or more . then the fixed 20% is applied The Short term Capital gain is the is calculated with the slab above. Its the ITR 2 that you fill up for capital gain (Other source of income). unless specified. The problem here does not lie with Regulation or non regulation, but with the correct Tax definition. Till the time The income tax department does not specify any specification on income generated through the conversion of crypto currency it should be considered as other income and filled under the ITR2 . (Better safe then sorry). The tax calculation will not apply to the bitcoin but the INR that is converted. Edit :- Yes it is not as simple as adding profits to your existing income. i would suggest a consultation with a tax expert on the calculation methods. I will have my done this coming financial year and will post the details and processes ,.
|
|
|
|
globalgaurav
|
|
January 08, 2014, 07:13:43 PM |
|
But not every one is a part time worker or a student. and many do have bitcoin transactions over 2 lakh. They, need to keep records and pay tax properly.
Ah well fuck indian gov i'm not going to pay any tax. +1 Pay taxes for what?? no roads.. shitass electric supply.. open garbages.. Our money is only gettin locked away in swiss accounts by these fuckin bureaucrats.. I understand you frustration. but fighting against the system head on is only gona give the government reasons to go after the bitcoin community users. we can fuck up theses bureaucrats once we have established a proper global decentralized currency. away from the control of world governments. Its in moments like this i feel the absence of crappy media.. they can replay the same fuckin news for two days in a row but cannot actually do one good thing for the community.. i mean while the rest of the world news agencies are giving out reviews.. positive negative other matter.. but atleast people know.. Sometimes i wonder why is India so fucked up on so many different levels.. and yet we are india shining.. Grrrr.. Thats ckz the media has sold out. and its alos the same with western media companies , with "News Corp", owning some of the largest news outlets in the world. they control what goes in and what comes out. most of the media companies have heir affiliation to political parties, making news a hard thing to be provided without bias, Precisely My money is on these kind of IDEAS - http://youtu.be/kE9mxQzybcQ
|
|
|
|
2bfree
|
|
January 09, 2014, 02:04:55 AM |
|
But not every one is a part time worker or a student. and many do have bitcoin transactions over 2 lakh. They, need to keep records and pay tax properly.
Ah well fuck indian gov i'm not going to pay any tax. The power to tax is the power to destroy. Income tax and property tax are evil. Just my 2 cents.
|
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ >>FREE SEO AUDIT/WHITE LABEL MAKE MONEY!<<▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
|
|
|
Benson Samuel
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
|
|
January 09, 2014, 04:45:48 AM |
|
But not every one is a part time worker or a student. and many do have bitcoin transactions over 2 lakh. They, need to keep records and pay tax properly.
Ah well fuck indian gov i'm not going to pay any tax. The power to tax is the power to destroy. Income tax and property tax are evil. Just my 2 cents. yeah, my folks just told me that despite the fact that we worked our balls off and bought a house and 'OWN' it, we still need to pay prop tax every year ?? WTF?? lol.. Crazy stuff. PS: They didnt say balls
|
|
|
|
dashingriddler
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1258
Merit: 1001
|
|
January 30, 2014, 08:43:54 AM |
|
Taxation is a form for govt to collect money from people, help people with that money and also to level the rich-poor ground. But only first part of it succeeds fully.
I am planning to declare the bitcoins i have as an asset in the filing i will do in aug for the fin year ending march 31st 2014. please share your views about this if you are willing to.
|
|
|
|
BTCIndia
|
|
January 30, 2014, 08:51:40 AM |
|
But not every one is a part time worker or a student. and many do have bitcoin transactions over 2 lakh. They, need to keep records and pay tax properly.
Ah well fuck indian gov i'm not going to pay any tax. The power to tax is the power to destroy. Income tax and property tax are evil. Just my 2 cents. You must have skipped elementary education where they teach how democracy works. Selfish soul! Whatever you've earned was from society and paying them back, willing or unwilling is moral obligation. Because, most people are unwilling to digest the thought above, they're forced to tax.
|
He's Nick Sazbo from Washington. I've my answer. Or Hal? :O
|
|
|
BTCIndia
|
|
January 30, 2014, 08:54:13 AM |
|
Taxation is a form for govt to collect money from people, help people with that money and also to level the rich-poor ground. But only first part of it succeeds fully.
I am planning to declare the bitcoins i have as an asset in the filing i will do in aug for the fin year ending march 31st 2014. please share your views about this if you are willing to.
Thats' great move! I'd suggest, you should file soonner for following reasons: 1. Earlier you pay taxes, lower you'll have to pay considering its price is sure to rise in future. 2. Taxation on Bitcoin is inevitable now. If you early enough to give them headache of taxing Bitcoin, they'll be forced to work out issue soon. And that will be good for people involved. 3. One more issue to catalyze government to take clear stand on virtual currency.
|
He's Nick Sazbo from Washington. I've my answer. Or Hal? :O
|
|
|
dashingriddler
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1258
Merit: 1001
|
|
January 30, 2014, 09:02:22 AM |
|
I need to pay taxes only when i sell them. Not to just hold the obtained bitcoins. So it will just be asset declaration this time. If they ask me to pay taxes because i have mined some bitcoins, my argument would be to ask them to accept my tax in bitcoins or to establish authorized exchanges where we can convert bitcoins to inr. Any of these two options would be good for us
|
|
|
|
thenoblebot
|
|
January 30, 2014, 11:10:07 AM |
|
I need to pay taxes only when i sell them. Not to just hold the obtained bitcoins. So it will just be asset declaration this time. If they ask me to pay taxes because i have mined some bitcoins, my argument would be to ask them to accept my tax in bitcoins or to establish authorized exchanges where we can convert bitcoins to inr. Any of these two options would be good for us So asset declaration would include the coins your holding ? (in which case how would you value it ?)Or the ones that you have sold and have cash for it ? (that doesnt sound like an asset to me ... sorry im just too confused with this whole tax thing)
|
|
|
|
Benson Samuel
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
|
|
January 30, 2014, 11:43:11 AM |
|
I need to pay taxes only when i sell them. Not to just hold the obtained bitcoins. So it will just be asset declaration this time. If they ask me to pay taxes because i have mined some bitcoins, my argument would be to ask them to accept my tax in bitcoins or to establish authorized exchanges where we can convert bitcoins to inr. Any of these two options would be good for us So asset declaration would include the coins your holding ? (in which case how would you value it ?)Or the ones that you have sold and have cash for it ? (that doesnt sound like an asset to me ... sorry im just too confused with this whole tax thing) Bitcoin does not fall under the definition of an asset,
|
|
|
|
thenoblebot
|
|
January 30, 2014, 11:45:58 AM |
|
I need to pay taxes only when i sell them. Not to just hold the obtained bitcoins. So it will just be asset declaration this time. If they ask me to pay taxes because i have mined some bitcoins, my argument would be to ask them to accept my tax in bitcoins or to establish authorized exchanges where we can convert bitcoins to inr. Any of these two options would be good for us So asset declaration would include the coins your holding ? (in which case how would you value it ?)Or the ones that you have sold and have cash for it ? (that doesnt sound like an asset to me ... sorry im just too confused with this whole tax thing) Bitcoin does not fall under the definition of an asset, Lol there we go again .. back to square 1 with legal interpretations. Is there any thread about this ?
|
|
|
|
Benson Samuel
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
|
|
January 30, 2014, 11:47:17 AM |
|
I need to pay taxes only when i sell them. Not to just hold the obtained bitcoins. So it will just be asset declaration this time. If they ask me to pay taxes because i have mined some bitcoins, my argument would be to ask them to accept my tax in bitcoins or to establish authorized exchanges where we can convert bitcoins to inr. Any of these two options would be good for us So asset declaration would include the coins your holding ? (in which case how would you value it ?)Or the ones that you have sold and have cash for it ? (that doesnt sound like an asset to me ... sorry im just too confused with this whole tax thing) Bitcoin does not fall under the definition of an asset, Lol there we go again .. back to square 1 with legal interpretations. Is there any thread about this ? its not an interpretation. Assets, securities and derivatives all have legal definitions. In order for Bitcoin to fall under one of them, it first needs to be defined. Do check with a lawyer and he will agree with what I said :p
|
|
|
|
thenoblebot
|
|
January 30, 2014, 11:52:27 AM |
|
Do check with a lawyer and he will agree with what I said :p Me to lawyer : Sir/Ma'am what should I do about bitcoin not being mentioned ? Smug lawyer (holding some btc himself) :
|
|
|
|
betanycoin
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
|
|
February 06, 2014, 01:35:49 PM |
|
I heard the same team has seized mtgox's one method of payment system. not sure what is up with them, but nothing is gonna effect bitcoin, well. LR was one side wannabe bitcoin anyways. I am pretty sure they can not do anything on crypto currencies.
Welcome to the forums mate. But you may want to spend some time going through existing posts. These topics have been discussed 2 weeks ago. The Seizures have been well documented under the India thread and this discussion should be made in those threads. [/quote
|
|
|
|
pandher
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
Stagnation is Death
|
|
February 23, 2014, 10:35:32 AM |
|
The beauty of crypto was NO TAXES on transactions and money exchange. If anyone wants to pay taxes relating to crypto than the original satoshi idea is defeated. I advise everyone to hold high alert deals in bitcoins so these thugs wont be coming after you. Freedom from banking and taxation slavery
|
|
|
|
mozilafirefox
Jr. Member
Offline
Activity: 124
Merit: 1
|
|
March 05, 2014, 06:38:13 PM |
|
Why is this topic on on sticky status?
Does this bitcoin Tax thing make a serious issue?
|
CODE OF TALENT | IGNITE LEARNING MOTIVATION WITH MICRO-LEARNING ■ ▀ ▄ JOIN THE MICRO-LEARNING REVOLUTION ▄ ▀ ■
|
|
|
pandher
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
Stagnation is Death
|
|
March 05, 2014, 07:02:41 PM |
|
Why is this topic on on sticky status?
Does this bitcoin Tax thing make a serious issue?
No it doesnt, people are just happy to feed more to corrupt governments
|
|
|
|
anoopch
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
|
|
March 06, 2014, 05:37:20 AM |
|
Tax Tax Tax...
You are mining. You are earning. You are using subsidized power. Pay your Tax.
Income tax is not very high when compared to other countries. There are ways in which the tax can be reduced greatly reduced.
Consult a good tax agent. There are options for saving taxes using bonds and investment products.
Remember that the Government runs efficient only when it's people pay taxes properly. Paying taxes is our duty. Saying the government is corrupt is just another reason to evade taxing. India is far better than many other countries in corruption, economic growth and development. Love your country.
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|