Are MtGox withdrawls delayed to artificially keep the Bitcoin price high?

[Frizz23]

Three facts:
- Deposit of USD and EUR to a MtGox account works without any problems.
- Withdrawal of Bitcoins works without any problems.
- Withdrawal of USD or EUR is problematic (it takes several weeks). So all you can do is buy back your Bitcoins, transfer them to another exchange and sell them there.

So in essence all you can do at MtGox is the transformation of USD to Bitcoin. Which means MtGox is not really a free market (because they are backing up Bitcoin).

One way to keep prices high is to "artificially" slow down the outflow of USD/EUR/etc.

Is this the reason why Bitcoin on MtGox is always between 5 and 10 percent higher compared to all the other exchanges (like btc-e, bitcoin.de, ...)?

MtGox has a vested interest to keep Bitcoin prices up (higher price means more fees for them). Of course all the other exchanges have that interest too - but maybe they are not abusing their market power as shameless as MtGox does.

MtGox has 80 percent? 90 percent? of the Bitcoin cake. They can't generate more income with growth. But they can generate more income in making the price go up and up and up ...

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[tutkarz]

So you are saying that if i have $1000 to buy bitcoins and bitcoin price is $1 (1000btc bought fee is 50btc=$50) then mtgox will get less fee than if price would be $100 per btc (10btc bought fee 0,5btc=$50)? You missed math lessons or what?

[monsterer]

So you are saying that if i have $1000 to buy bitcoins and bitcoin price is $1 (1000btc bought fee is 50btc=$50) then mtgox will get less fee than if price would be $100 per btc (10btc bought fee 0,5btc=$50)? You missed math lessons or what?

For a fixed volume he is correct.

Fact is, MtGox's fee schedule means you have to actively trade less and less volume in order to incur the same fees as the price rises.

[Frizz23]

So you are saying that if i have $1000 to buy bitcoins and bitcoin price is $1 (1000btc bought fee is 50btc=$50) then mtgox will get less fee than if price would be $100 per btc (10btc bought fee 0,5btc=$50)? You missed math lessons or what?

Aren't you a smartass?

Let me explain it very simple, so that even you have a chance to understand it.

This is the Bitcoin cake (aka market capitalization):



MtGox has a big, big piece of this cake (fees).

Now the task for you:
(1) How big do you think was this piece in June 2012 (when Bitcoin was at 5$)?
(2) How big do you think was this piece in April 2013 (when Bitcoin was at 250$)?

And now go tell me again: MtGox does not care about the Bitcoin price ...

[tutkarz]

They care about bitcoin price as long as they are getting they fees in bitcoins. But they are worried more about trade volume than price. If the price would be $100000000 and one person would buy 1 satoshi then they wont get the same profit than thousands of people trading constantly for $100.

[Frizz23]

They care about bitcoin price as long as they are getting they fees in bitcoins. But they are worried more about trade volume than price. If the price would be $100000000 and one person would buy 1 satoshi then they wont get the same profit than thousands of people trading constantly for $100.

Aren't you a smartass (again)?

Volume ... that goes without saying.

It's hard for MtGox to get the volume up (they can't lower their fees much more, already sub 1%). But they can keep the price high.

Can we now please go back OT? Which is, in essence: ... Is this the reason why Bitcoin on MtGox is always between 5 and 10 percent higher compared to all the other exchanges (like btc-e, bitcoin.de, ...)?

[naphto]

You only woke up today? Mtgox is overpricing bitcoins for weeks, communicating positive news to mislead investors...

[Frizz23]

You only woke up today? Mtgox is overpricing bitcoins for weeks, communicating positive news to mislead investors...

Good Morning 

Yes, I know that.

But I want to know the reason why.

[naphto]

To make more profit

[Frizz23]

To make more profit

 

[glendall]

Wow Frizz, you're not having an easy time in this thread are you ?

Personally I don't see how a USD to OKPAY withdrawal confirmation can take more than 4 or 5 days.....it's like didn't we invent computers to handle this sort of thing ?

[bitcoinbear]

Why is anybody still using MtGox? They are embroiled in all sorts of legal troubles, I would not consider any money left with them safe because they might disappear at any moment.

[glendall]

ya I always tell myself I'll never use it again and then somehow it always manages to work its way back into my transactions and trading.

I'm going to really KRAKEN it up soon though. I agree, I should not be using gox...

[bitcoinbear]

So you are saying that if i have $1000 to buy bitcoins and bitcoin price is $1 (1000btc bought fee is 50btc=$50) then mtgox will get less fee than if price would be $100 per btc (10btc bought fee 0,5btc=$50)? You missed math lessons or what?

For somebody trying to teach a math lesson, you should really check yours first. A $1000 USD purchase of bitcoins with a fee of 0.5% would yield a total fee of $5, not $50. Your intended point is valid, the fee in USD is the same if the amount traded in USD is the same.

[bernard75]

Why is anybody still using MtGox?

What alternative is there?

[bitcoinbear]

Why is anybody still using MtGox?

What alternative is there?

To see what markets people are using, http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

You could also trade with localbitcoins or over #bitcoin-otc on IRC

If you previously used [USD--Dwolla--MtGox], you could switch to [USD--CoinBase] or [USD--Dwolla--CampBX].

[bernard75]

btce = no way to get your money in or out + russia
bitstamp = slovenia
btcchina = see btce
dwolla = really???

otoh doing business in those countries sounds better than in the us atm

[bitcoinbear]

btce = no way to get your money out + russia
bitstamp = slovenia
btcchina = see btce
dwolla = really???

Is there something wrong with Slovenia?

To pick an exchange, you really have to chose from the ones which are set up to interface with your local banking system. For us to help you find such, you will have to tell us in which country you are located?

Could you be a bit more wordy, I have no idea what concept or reaction you are trying to convey with "dwolla = really???", is it surprise that such an amazing thing exists or sarcastic dismissal of the whole idea?

Actually, you were not very explicit when you asked if there were any alternatives to MtGox, which features of MtGox did you use?

[bernard75]

Is there something wrong with Slovenia?

A little surprised you didnt mention the other countries, but how about Slovanian economy crashing at any moment?

To pick an exchange, you really have to chose from the ones which are set up to interface with your local banking system. For us to help you find such, you will have to tell us in which country you are located?

Euro based and i guess im a little nostalgic about bitcoin24.

Could you be a bit more wordy, I have no idea what concept or reaction you are trying to convey with "dwolla = really???", is it surprise that such an amazing thing exists or sarcastic dismissal of the whole idea?

Lemme think, what was it that Dwolla made news with recently? Right, frozen accounts...
But thats irrelevant for the search for the perfect exchange, because im Euro based.
Anyway what i was trying to convey in my initial post is that unfortunately Gox is the lesser evil out of all those services.

[bitcoinbear]

... tell us in which country you are located?

Euro based and i guess im a little nostalgic about bitcoin24.

I am a bit confused lately, is Europe a country now?