Bitcoin Forum
December 07, 2016, 08:48:16 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: What the Early Adoptors Don't want you to know  (Read 7645 times)
truthcracker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 06:27:50 AM
 #1

Hi,

I have an Economics Degree From Sydney University and also hold a MCSE - I run an IT company.

The reason all the early adopters - read people with a shit load of bit coins, don't want to talk about the fact bitcoins is designed for deflation is because what it really means is this.

1 They mine themselves millions of bitcoins at the start for almost nothing
2 As speculators and Nebbies pile in on the action bitcoin goes up and up
3 The longer they can keep it going the more their bitcoins are worth.

See below a post ENCOURAGING Nebies not to question this fact, they then lock the topic.

Some freemarket - this is not the implementation of an idea I support - wait for bitcoins II or III or a similar idea which is more fairly distributed - the only way they are going to get money for free is from YOU when you buy THEIR bitcoins.  And who's going to buy them from you?


HERE is the original post.........

There has been a huge amount of tatter by the masses about how bitcoin is deflationary, how it's the next satan, and will end the world etc. I myself was interviewed by a freelance reporter (read, unemployed jouralism major) and he just wouldn't stop banging on about deflation, even after I'd said it doesn't matter. Throw in the recent threads on hackernews and Quora posts, it's getting really annoying to the point of distraction.

So I'm going to lay it down here, and I don't want to hear another peep about it.

Firstly this is the bitcoin project, it is primarily about bitcoin the software, the services around etc. One aspect of bitcoin is that it is deflationary.

The arguments are always about whether deflation is a good thing or not, so this is actually not a bitcoin issue (it's just something that effects bitcoin, because it's deflationary).

Firstly I must point out that economics is a SOCIAL SCIENCE, this means that there are many contradicting theories, it's not math, so there are many MANY things which tend to be plain wrong. Social sciences are the fields of scholarship that study society.

Hard science like math, physics, some biology and chemistry are ....well...hard. 1+1=2, gravity stops us floating away, take away our oxigen and we tend to die. These things are provable, you can run test after test and get the same result.

This is not so with economics where there are no tests, just some (often poor quality) data, and theories trying to explain that data. And from these theories predictions are made. It's very very shakey ground.

Who thinks what about Deflation

There are two schools of thought on deflation and inflation.
Keynesian economics, which favors government intervention and money supply inflation. This not surprisingly is the most popular school of thought with world governments (if someone told you to just print money and spend it you'd like them too).

This school not only supports inflation, but believes it to be essential to growth.

Then there is the Austrian school, which is is for a free market, against government intervention, and generally think inflation is bad and deflation is good. Again unsurprisingly these people are not popular in government circles around the world.

For more about why they think deflation is good see these links.
http://mises.org/daily/1241
http://blog.mises.org/3362/inflation-or-deflation/
http://mises.org/daily/4623

This is an argument between these two theories of economics, not bitcoin. At best bitcoin could be thought of as a modern experiment in deflation.

If you think deflation is just the devil, then fine, don't use bitcoin, just watch, you'll see soon enough whether it causes the bitcoin economy to stall, and you'll be in the position to gloat or eat your words. If deflation doesn't bother you then forget about it and continue living your life and spending your bitcoin.

But let me be clear, no more pointless natter about deflation worries. If you're a bitcoiner don't allow yourself to be drawn into a discussion about deflation, point them to this thread and say thats all you've got to say about it.

Nefario.




1481100496
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481100496

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481100496
Reply with quote  #2

1481100496
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Jessica
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 174



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:06:57 AM
 #2

Yes, but we are all early adopters in a way. Just a bit later than the really early people. In a couple of years, Bitcoins will be more expensive / harder to mine, and people like you and me are going to make profit outta that. ^^
harmal
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 33


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:16:54 AM
 #3

well i don't want to get into the whole deflation good or bad argument but i would like to comment on the early adoption of bitcoins you started you post with.

i feel like i got on board pretty late when i see it started in 2007 and looking at the charts. even though i'm not entering in at the best time, i have faith in it as a viable currency as i'm currently able to turn a profit while contributing to this bitcoin network. even if i lose money in the end, which would be an unhappy event, i'm still having fun participating in it all.
ben-abuya
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 323



View Profile WWW
June 23, 2011, 08:36:31 AM
 #4

What people don't seem to realize is that distributing a new currency to the world from zero is a really hard problem. In fact, before bitcoin came around I couldn't think of any viable way of doing it. Bitcoin's way is pretty brilliant and is working out swimmingly so far. And, by the way, if you're writing on the forum at this point, you are in all likelihood a very early adopter. The people who start buying at $100 and $1,000 per btc will be seeing you as a rich tycoon who got tipped off early.

http://lamassubtc.com/
Lamassu Bitcoin Ventures
truthcracker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:45:18 AM
 #5

Yes, but we are all early adopters in a way. Just a bit later than the really early people. In a couple of years, Bitcoins will be more expensive / harder to mine, and people like you and me are going to make profit outta that. ^^

Are we?  Or are we adopting a beta implementation of an idea that will enrich the early adopters with despised us dollars which they can fund a bitcoins 2.0?

Think before you part with your money.
malditonuke
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 145


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:46:09 AM
 #6

I have an Economics Degree From Sydney University

For some reason, I don't give two shits when someone says they have an economics degree.

Maybe it's because such degrees are frequently held by people like Ben Bernanke.
truthcracker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:48:06 AM
 #7

well i don't want to get into the whole deflation good or bad argument but i would like to comment on the early adoption of bitcoins you started you post with.

i feel like i got on board pretty late when i see it started in 2007 and looking at the charts. even though i'm not entering in at the best time, i have faith in it as a viable currency as i'm currently able to turn a profit while contributing to this bitcoin network. even if i lose money in the end, which would be an unhappy event, i'm still having fun participating in it all.

Well then thats a good reason to do it.
kjj
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:52:57 AM
 #8

What the hell is a Nebbie?  or a Nebie?

Also, how can anyone possibly look at these forums and pretend that deflation is a big secret that we are trying to hide from the masses?  You can hardly swing a cat in here without hitting a dozen threads on the subject, including the one and only sticky topic in the Economics forum.

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
Oldminer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:52:58 AM
 #9


For some reason, I don't give two shits when someone says they have an economics degree.

Maybe it's because such degrees are frequently held by people like Ben Bernanke.

Gotta agree with you on this point.

Not singling out the OP as I'm sure there are some educated people out there that are very good at their profession, but generally I too have little faith in 'professional' opinions. It would be safe to say that most professionals only parrot what they have been taught by their relevant institution. Doesn't make it right, and Bernanke is a perfect example.

If you like my post please feel free to give me some positive rep https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=18639
Tip me BTC: 1FBmoYijXVizfYk25CpiN8Eds9J6YiRDaX
truthcracker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:56:13 AM
 #10

What people don't seem to realize is that distributing a new currency to the world from zero is a really hard problem. In fact, before bitcoin came around I couldn't think of any viable way of doing it. Bitcoin's way is pretty brilliant and is working out swimmingly so far. And, by the way, if you're writing on the forum at this point, you are in all likelihood a very early adopter. The people who start buying at $100 and $1,000 per btc will be seeing you as a rich tycoon who got tipped off early.

Paypal, dwolla, no one has a problem to begin with if its a one to one exchange.

The reason bitcoins is different is because the early adopters get it for free, encourage speculation, cash out, no vendors want in on a fluctuating model.  

Think about it - the only cash in is from speculators and a tiny amount of vendors.  The cash out comes from the early adopters and "miners" taking it OUT of the system.

Its a nil cash system bootstrapped doomed to deflation, is partly supported by the criminal element who is also successfully trying to steal it from others - in short its a beta project that I think has geeks in love with the technology, speculators in love with the rah-rah from early adopters and very few voices of reason.

The fact that people are actively discouraging others from discussing what deflation means and to say "my answer is this post" is frightening and morally poisoned.

You can't build a currency on trust with a base of skewed self interest.   Have you noticed how vile and rude these boards are?  I've never seen anything like it.  THIS is the community?

THanks for replying to my post.
DiamBTC
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 6


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:56:45 AM
 #11

Does someone have info/stats about bitcoin distribution ?

If somebody is interrested to graph flow and has experience making graphs, please contact me offline...
Tronlet
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 08:57:21 AM
 #12

My friend, maybe I would have bothered to read all of your post if you weren't repeating directly things that are freely admitted by everyone, and using shockingly bad grammar considering your supposed degree.

Obviously this is what is going to happen. To quote directly from the wiki, life isn't fair.

truthcracker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:02:18 AM
 #13

What the hell is a Nebbie?  or a Nebie?

Also, how can anyone possibly look at these forums and pretend that deflation is a big secret that we are trying to hide from the masses?  You can hardly swing a cat in here without hitting a dozen threads on the subject, including the one and only sticky topic in the Economics forum.

Why are people trying to suppress the point that the system is unfairly designed?
truthcracker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:05:57 AM
 #14

I have an Economics Degree From Sydney University

For some reason, I don't give two shits when someone says they have an economics degree.

Maybe it's because such degrees are frequently held by people like Ben Bernanke.

Would it help if I told you I was a chief then?  Ben Bernake is also a man, do you only take economic arguments from girls?  The tone on this forum is so low, it seems infested with rabid self interest and wild eye'ed claims.

I think it was probably different when it was a hopeful little project.
truthcracker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:07:46 AM
 #15

My friend, maybe I would have bothered to read all of your post if you weren't repeating directly things that are freely admitted by everyone, and using shockingly bad grammar considering your supposed degree.

Obviously this is what is going to happen. To quote directly from the wiki, life isn't fair.

Yeah my grammar has gone downhill its true.  I guess I mean why not try and make it fair?
Oldminer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:09:30 AM
 #16


Some freemarket - this is not the implementation of an idea I support - wait for bitcoins II or III or a similar idea which is more fairly distributed - the only way they are going to get money for free is from YOU when you buy THEIR bitcoins.  And who's going to buy them from you?


Why other people of course? As with any item of value, theres always new buyers (new people being born everyday for one) and a market. Of course competition and profits may drop in the future but what the future holds for Bitcoin really is a guessing game at this stage. IMO its never been done before.

Best you get in now.

If you like my post please feel free to give me some positive rep https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=18639
Tip me BTC: 1FBmoYijXVizfYk25CpiN8Eds9J6YiRDaX
Tronlet
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:11:01 AM
 #17

What the hell is a Nebbie?  or a Nebie?

Also, how can anyone possibly look at these forums and pretend that deflation is a big secret that we are trying to hide from the masses?  You can hardly swing a cat in here without hitting a dozen threads on the subject, including the one and only sticky topic in the Economics forum.

Why are people trying to suppress the point that the system is unfairly designed?

Lolwut, his post said the exact opposite of what you're trying to accuse him of.

Would it help if I told you I was a chief then?  Ben Bernake is also a man, do you only take economic arguments from girls?  The tone on this forum is so low, it seems infested with rabid self interest and wild eye'ed claims.

I think it was probably different when it was a hopeful little project.

I... what... even...

Yeah my grammar has gone downhill its true.  I guess I mean why not try and make it fair?

Downhill? I will assume here that English is not your first language.

Let me also point out that "making it fair" is not on the agenda, the agenda is making a cryptocurrency that will- blah blah blah, you don't need me to repeat that. Making it so-called fair would alter the system significantly and wouldn't allow it to work in any form we know of now.

Let me also point out that I had to point something that obvious out to someone with a supposed degree.

truthcracker
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:11:19 AM
 #18


For some reason, I don't give two shits when someone says they have an economics degree.

Maybe it's because such degrees are frequently held by people like Ben Bernanke.

Gotta agree with you on this point.

Not singling out the OP as I'm sure there are some educated people out there that are very good at their profession, but generally I too have little faith in 'professional' opinions. It would be safe to say that most professionals only parrot what they have been taught by their relevant institution. Doesn't make it right, and Bernanke is a perfect example.

Why do you think its safe to say that most professionals only parrot what they have been taught?  That's very broad.  I mean it includes all disciplines and people graduating from them - how does the world manage to maintain doctors, engineers and historians?  Where is the true store of knowledge - TV and Wiki?
kerogre256
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 161


View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:17:09 AM
 #19

What the hell is a Nebbie?  or a Nebie?

Also, how can anyone possibly look at these forums and pretend that deflation is a big secret that we are trying to hide from the masses?  You can hardly swing a cat in here without hitting a dozen threads on the subject, including the one and only sticky topic in the Economics forum.

Why are people trying to suppress the point that the system is ?

 Life is unfairly designed just look at children dying from hunger in Africa or children born with disability , if you dont like bitcoin go take code change it and make bitcoin 2.0 and you will BE early adoptors but stop complain how unfair it is. Good luck.
kjj
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302



View Profile
June 23, 2011, 09:19:49 AM
 #20

What the hell is a Nebbie?  or a Nebie?

Also, how can anyone possibly look at these forums and pretend that deflation is a big secret that we are trying to hide from the masses?  You can hardly swing a cat in here without hitting a dozen threads on the subject, including the one and only sticky topic in the Economics forum.

Why are people trying to suppress the point that the system is unfairly designed?

 Huh

The facts are plastered all over these forums, as are all of the opinions for and against the system as designed.  I still don't see how you can continue to claim that there is some sort of suppression going on.  You are free to post your opinion that the system is unfair.  Other people are equally free to disagree with your view, and to post their rebuttals.  Is that what you mean by suppression?  Are we suppressing you by posting our disagreements?

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!