Rampion (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 03:19:39 PM |
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I'm surprised that there is no thread dedicated to the Twilio email published by Piuk (blockchain.info operator), regarding China Telecom blocking all Bitcoin related traffic to China: Hi Ben,
We got further information from our carrier confirming that business such as bitcoin is not a proper financial tool in China and the Authority may treat bitcoin as an illegal business. Unfortunately the China Telecom Authority has requested that all bit-coin traffic to China be blocked.
As the provider of the phone number, Twilio is responsible for assuring the carriers that no more traffic related to bitcoin will be sent to China. Therefore, I have removed your international SMS permission to China. Please do not turn this on or try sending SMS messages to mobile numbers in China. Doing so will very likely lead to immediate account suspension.
Again I'm sorry for the convenience. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Thanks,
Twilio Customer Support Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=40264.msg2243603#msg2243603Does anybody has more information about this? |
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No Gods or Kings. Only Bitcoin
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cokein
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May 23, 2013, 03:38:02 PM |
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According to: http://blockchain.info/ip-log there are plenty of CN (China) nodes working out there. Don't know..maybe it's a prudent (and arbitrary) move [..] confirming that business such as bitcoin is not a proper financial tool in China and the Authority *MAY* treat bitcoin as an illegal business. [..] Maybe other carrier don't care about it until China Gov say something official.. |
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oakpacific
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May 23, 2013, 03:47:00 PM |
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I am using China Telecom's network, until now at least network traffic related to Bitcoin is OK.
Keep in mind that law in China works differently from that of West, in two ways:
1.Anything not explicitly permitted by law is technically prohibited;
2.No one will enforce the "not permitted yet not explicitly prohibited" part of the law until someone sees a chance to make money or directives are received from "relevant organs".(so yes we break laws everyday)
In this case, I guess it's China Telecom's management's own idea, not sure at which level the decision is made, but there must be some interest groups related to CT already feeling the threat of Bitcoin.
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Rampion (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 03:50:29 PM |
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I am using China Telecom's network, until now at least network traffic related to Bitcoin is OK.
Keep in mind that law in China works differently from that of West, in two ways:
1.Anything not permitted by law is technically prohibited;
2.No one will enforce the "not permitted" part of the law until someone sees a chance to make money or directives are received from "relevant organs".
In this case, I guess it's China Telecom's management's own idea, not sure at which level the decision is made, but there must be some interest groups related to CT already feeling the threat of Bitcoin.
Yeah, other China Telecom users said they are having no problems accessing Bitcoin services for the moment. Anyhow, the Twilio email is very recent. It may be a first step towards a bigger action, or just FUD. Maybe some China Telecom exec dealing with Twilio took his own decision, maybe it's just Twilio shitting their pants with no reason. Let's see how this unfolds. |
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evoorhees
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Democracy is the original 51% attack
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May 23, 2013, 03:51:40 PM |
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Very interesting indeed, if true!
Something to think about... if China comes out openly opposed to Bitcoin, and blocks it, then Americans will look upon this as an act of censorship by an oppressive regime. This means they would be less likely to accept similar moves from the American government. On the other hand, if the American govenrment comes down hard (and not China), Americans would be more likely to buy the story and be opposed to Bitcoin.
Thus China blocking it could be good for Bitcoin in America. And America blocking it could be good for Bitcoin in China.
China is STILL the top downloader of Bitcoin client software, a trend which has persisted for the past six weeks (prior to this, the US had always been #1)
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evoorhees
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Democracy is the original 51% attack
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May 23, 2013, 03:54:10 PM |
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We'll know if a block is actually in force, because as soon as it happens the downloads into China will fall drastically. So people should keep an eye on this over the coming days/weeks: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/stats/map |
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Rampion (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 03:56:14 PM |
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If that is true, China government are shooting themselves in the foot. Banning bitcoin is like banning gold, and not sane government should ban wealth protection options or emerging disruptive technologies.
It's only my opinion but i think that china should be the LAST country interested in banning bitcoin or threating it as 'illegal'.
Really, don't know what to think, maybe it's true, but it's a little confusing if we count all the positive media coverage Bitcoin has on china TV on these last weeks.
Unfortunately all the countries are interested in not losing control on the monetary supply. Handing over the control of the currency means handing over power. |
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Rampion (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 03:56:34 PM |
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Good point. Let's keep an eye on that. |
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oakpacific
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May 23, 2013, 04:01:18 PM |
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If that is true, China government are shooting themselves in the foot. Banning bitcoin is like banning gold, and not sane government should ban wealth protection options or emerging disruptive technologies.
It's only my opinion but i think that china should be the LAST country interested in banning bitcoin or threating it as 'illegal'.
Really, don't know what to think, maybe it's true, but it's a little confusing if we count all the positive media coverage Bitcoin has on china TV on these last weeks.
Unfortunately all the countries are interested in not losing control on the monetary supply. Handing over the control of the currency means handing over power. Maybe not, U.S had pretty much run an more and liberal system for a long time because it's sure that it can keep winning under such a system, so no need to tighten things up. For a similar reason China may not feel the threat of Bitcoin because even if it becomes the world's reserve currency, China can outmuscle other nations in mining(at least do better than under the current system) and exert a big influence on the network. |
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stevegee58
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May 23, 2013, 04:01:56 PM |
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Good point. Let's keep an eye on that. It's also interesting for the OS stats from various countries. Who's using Macs the most? Who's using Linux the most? It's just cool. |
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
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usscfounder
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May 23, 2013, 04:02:44 PM |
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I doubt the Chinese government is opposed to cryptocurrency technology.
Everyone know that the Chinese have been trying to remove the U.S dollar as the worlds reserve currency for years. They see Bitcoin as a way to do that.
Further, Chinese state-run television just had a 30 minute special on bitcoin and cryptocurrencies just a few weeks ago introducing the Chinese people to crypto. If the government was opposed to crypto they would have never allowed the broadcast.
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oakpacific
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May 23, 2013, 04:06:37 PM |
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Also to increase its own importance, multiple branches of the Chinese gov routinely fight each other and try to impose completely opposite policies, it's entirely possible that one gov ministry comes out in support of BTC and another is in opposition of it.
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Rampion (OP)
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May 23, 2013, 04:08:15 PM |
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Also to increase its own importance, multiple branches of the Chinese gov routinely fight each other and try to impose completely opposite policies, it's entirely possible that one gov ministry comes out in support of BTC and another is in opposition of it.
Yep, that is what I thought when I read the Twilio email and considered the CCTV 30 minutes report about BTC. |
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oakpacific
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May 23, 2013, 04:13:58 PM |
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If a real block is really in place, gov will order Alipay and Tenpay to stop financing Bitcoin exchanges, and maybe shutdown the mining factories, it will be very visible.
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Seth Otterstad
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May 23, 2013, 04:38:56 PM |
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Unfortunately all the countries are interested in not losing control on the monetary supply. Handing over the control of the currency means handing over power.
China pegs its currency to the dollar. Countries that have already given up monetary sovereignty have nothing to lose and a lot to gain from a world currency. From this interesting thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124474.0Considering only large economies, Germany, China, and Canada are the top exporters at over 30% of GDP, while the US, Japan, and Brazil are on the bottom. Germany and China have their currencies tied to their biggest trading partners within free trade zones, but Canada floats its currency, even though 84% of its exports go to the US. So it generally appears that where international trade is high, the disadvantages of giving up monetary sovereignty can be outweighed by the advantage of eliminating exchange rate risk, at least within a free trade zone.
Ravin Thambapillai states that the loss of control of monetary policy affects all countries more or less equally. However any country that pegs its currency to another one has already given up monetary sovereignty, so the main downside of a world currency does not exist for these countries. This list includes China, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Ecuador, Panama, many Caribbean islands, and many central and west African countries. Smaller countries in the euro zone have also given up monetary sovereignty to a large extent. |
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bg002h
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I outlived my lifetime membership:)
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May 23, 2013, 05:23:47 PM |
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I am using China Telecom's network, until now at least network traffic related to Bitcoin is OK.
Keep in mind that law in China works differently from that of West, in two ways:
1.Anything not explicitly permitted by law is technically prohibited;
2.No one will enforce the "not permitted yet not explicitly prohibited" part of the law until someone sees a chance to make money or directives are received from "relevant organs".(so yes we break laws everyday)
In this case, I guess it's China Telecom's management's own idea, not sure at which level the decision is made, but there must be some interest groups related to CT already feeling the threat of Bitcoin.
Wow. Thank you for sharing that cultural insight. I'm rather sheltered as an American, and I know I take a fair amount for granted, but wow. I'm surprised how arbitrary the government can be and the people put up with it. |
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stevegee58
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May 23, 2013, 05:34:34 PM |
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I am using China Telecom's network, until now at least network traffic related to Bitcoin is OK.
Keep in mind that law in China works differently from that of West, in two ways:
1.Anything not explicitly permitted by law is technically prohibited;
2.No one will enforce the "not permitted yet not explicitly prohibited" part of the law until someone sees a chance to make money or directives are received from "relevant organs".(so yes we break laws everyday)
In this case, I guess it's China Telecom's management's own idea, not sure at which level the decision is made, but there must be some interest groups related to CT already feeling the threat of Bitcoin.
Wow. Thank you for sharing that cultural insight. I'm rather sheltered as an American, and I know I take a fair amount for granted, but wow. I'm surprised how arbitrary the government can be and the people put up with it. Think of the beauty of a system where everyone is breaking the law everyday; anyone can be arrested at any time arbitrarily and can't deny they've broken the law. |
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
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oakpacific
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May 24, 2013, 12:30:56 AM |
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I am using China Telecom's network, until now at least network traffic related to Bitcoin is OK.
Keep in mind that law in China works differently from that of West, in two ways:
1.Anything not explicitly permitted by law is technically prohibited;
2.No one will enforce the "not permitted yet not explicitly prohibited" part of the law until someone sees a chance to make money or directives are received from "relevant organs".(so yes we break laws everyday)
In this case, I guess it's China Telecom's management's own idea, not sure at which level the decision is made, but there must be some interest groups related to CT already feeling the threat of Bitcoin.
Wow. Thank you for sharing that cultural insight. I'm rather sheltered as an American, and I know I take a fair amount for granted, but wow. I'm surprised how arbitrary the government can be and the people put up with it. Think of the beauty of a system where everyone is breaking the law everyday; anyone can be arrested at any time arbitrarily and can't deny they've broken the law. In the majority of cases to arrest someone you still have to somehow justify it with a piece of text(it can be very vague, needless to say), but government agencies can refuse to cooperate with you/cut down service to you at any time because what you are doing is not explicitly allowed. |
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cypherdoc
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May 24, 2013, 01:27:25 AM |
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I am using China Telecom's network, until now at least network traffic related to Bitcoin is OK.
Keep in mind that law in China works differently from that of West, in two ways:
1.Anything not explicitly permitted by law is technically prohibited;
2.No one will enforce the "not permitted yet not explicitly prohibited" part of the law until someone sees a chance to make money or directives are received from "relevant organs".(so yes we break laws everyday)
In this case, I guess it's China Telecom's management's own idea, not sure at which level the decision is made, but there must be some interest groups related to CT already feeling the threat of Bitcoin.
Wow. Thank you for sharing that cultural insight. I'm rather sheltered as an American, and I know I take a fair amount for granted, but wow. I'm surprised how arbitrary the government can be and the people put up with it. Think of the beauty of a system where everyone is breaking the law everyday; anyone can be arrested at any time arbitrarily and can't deny they've broken the law. sounds like the Byzantine General's Problem applied to China. and Bitcoin keeps moving forward... |
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