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Author Topic: Scamcoin Special Episode - Let's Talk Bitcoin! show  (Read 1494 times)
oakpacific
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May 24, 2013, 09:27:39 AM
 #21

TO the community using an alt coin there is no benefit to them when a chain is premined. Simple as that.

What?

You know Satoshi mined a quarter million Bitcoins, right? Bitcoin is the original premined coin.

Mining!=Premining. Do your homework before you talk.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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mullick
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May 24, 2013, 09:30:44 AM
 #22

TO the community using an alt coin there is no benefit to them when a chain is premined. Simple as that.

What?

You know Satoshi mined a quarter million Bitcoins, right? Bitcoin is the original premined coin.

Mining!=Premining. Do your homework before you talk.

+1

satoshi needed to MINE (not pre-mine). The all mythical being was probably the only consistent node for quite some time
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May 24, 2013, 09:31:10 AM
 #23

TO the community using an alt coin there is no benefit to them when a chain is premined. Simple as that.

What?

You know Satoshi mined a quarter million Bitcoins, right? Bitcoin is the original premined coin.

Mining!=Premining. Do your homework before you talk.

Support your assertions before you post.

Premining is mining. By definition. It's in the name. The idea is that you're mining before (pre-) everyone else. Premining.

Satoshi was a huge chunk of the network hashrate for quite a while. That meets my definition, and I'm not sure why it doesn't meet yours. The only difference with the new coins is that the timescale is extremely compressed because an absolute shitload of power piles into the blockchain within a couple of days. When Satoshi was mining it was CPU-only.

It's not that I don't believe he deserved every bitcoin, he absolutely did. The point is mostly that premining doesn't spell doom for a coin.

oakpacific
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May 24, 2013, 09:35:04 AM
 #24

TO the community using an alt coin there is no benefit to them when a chain is premined. Simple as that.

What?

You know Satoshi mined a quarter million Bitcoins, right? Bitcoin is the original premined coin.

Mining!=Premining. Do your homework before you talk.

Support your assertions before you post.

Premining is mining. By definition. It's in the name. The idea is that you're mining before (pre-) everyone else. Premining.

Satoshi was a huge chunk of the network hashrate for quite a while. That meets my definition, and I'm not sure why it doesn't meet yours. The only difference with the new coins is that the timescale is extremely compressed because an absolute shitload of power piles into the blockchain within a couple of days. When Satoshi was mining it was CPU-only.

It's not that I don't believe he deserved every Bitcoin, he absolutely did. The point is mostly that premining doesn't spell doom for a coin.

Wrong, Satoshi published the code and tried to get people in a variety of places to use it(what else do you expect him to do? Run an ad on the TImes Square?)  before he even started mining, anyone can grab the code if he wants, which is not that different from the situation today. And your assertion he mined a quarter million before anyone else is wrong, Hal Finney for one mined several thousand, and the sourceforge registered several hundred downloads for the Bitcoin client during the whole period.

This whole"I didn't get rich so someone must be mean" talk is getting old.


https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
mullick
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May 24, 2013, 09:36:34 AM
 #25

TO the community using an alt coin there is no benefit to them when a chain is premined. Simple as that.

What?

You know Satoshi mined a quarter million Bitcoins, right? Bitcoin is the original premined coin.

Mining!=Premining. Do your homework before you talk.

Support your assertions before you post.

Premining is mining. By definition. It's in the name. The idea is that you're mining before (pre-) everyone else. Premining.

Satoshi was a huge chunk of the network hashrate for quite a while. That meets my definition, and I'm not sure why it doesn't meet yours. The only difference with the new coins is that the timescale is extremely compressed because an absolute shitload of power piles into the blockchain within a couple of days. When Satoshi was mining it was CPU-only.

It's not that I don't believe he deserved every bitcoin, he absolutely did. The point is mostly that premining doesn't spell doom for a coin.

Pre-mine = Mining before release

Mining = mining after release. If satoshi released a coin today and mined it would it be a pre mine? No it would not. If he didnt mine it he would be flamed like we saw with DGC

I dont know what your goal here is but I hope for humanity's sake you are smarter than this
Vycid
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May 24, 2013, 09:45:18 AM
 #26

TO the community using an alt coin there is no benefit to them when a chain is premined. Simple as that.

What?

You know Satoshi mined a quarter million Bitcoins, right? Bitcoin is the original premined coin.

Mining!=Premining. Do your homework before you talk.

Support your assertions before you post.

Premining is mining. By definition. It's in the name. The idea is that you're mining before (pre-) everyone else. Premining.

Satoshi was a huge chunk of the network hashrate for quite a while. That meets my definition, and I'm not sure why it doesn't meet yours. The only difference with the new coins is that the timescale is extremely compressed because an absolute shitload of power piles into the blockchain within a couple of days. When Satoshi was mining it was CPU-only.

It's not that I don't believe he deserved every bitcoin, he absolutely did. The point is mostly that premining doesn't spell doom for a coin.

Pre-mine = Mining before release

Mining = mining after release. If satoshi released a coin today and mined it would it be a pre mine? No it would not. If he didnt mine it he would be flamed like we saw with DGC

I dont know what your goal here is but I hope for humanity's sake you are smarter than this

You're missing the point.

What is the difference between a developer holding a quarter million coins for one of the new alts and Satoshi holding a quarter million bitcoins, besides the cries of "that's not fair"?

News flash: nobody really gives a shit about "being fair". If people gave a shit about that, we wouldn't need crypto in the first place.

mullick
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May 24, 2013, 09:50:33 AM
 #27



You're missing the point.

What is the difference between a developer holding a quarter million coins for one of the new alts and Satoshi holding a quarter million bitcoins, besides the cries of "that's not fair"?

News flash: nobody really gives a shit about "being fair". If people gave a shit about that, we wouldn't need crypto in the first place.

I really hope you kidding


Oops.....Im sorry I got in your way. Troll away sir troll away

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg
r3wt
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May 24, 2013, 09:55:41 AM
 #28

i have no comment, but i will say this. long live bacon. bacon is good. consider this.

Gold replaced trade.
Coins replaced gold
paper money replaced coins
checks replaced paper money
credit and debit cards replaced checks
paypal replaced credit cards
bitcoin replaced paypal
something iwll eventually replace bitcoin. lays of economics. where theres a market there will always be a product. /thread /lesson

My negative trust rating is reflective of a personal vendetta by someone on default trust.
Vycid
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May 24, 2013, 09:56:14 AM
 #29



You're missing the point.

What is the difference between a developer holding a quarter million coins for one of the new alts and Satoshi holding a quarter million bitcoins, besides the cries of "that's not fair"?

News flash: nobody really gives a shit about "being fair". If people gave a shit about that, we wouldn't need crypto in the first place.

I really hope you kidding


Oops.....Im sorry I got in your way. Troll away sir troll away

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

I'm not kidding at all.

The initial mined coins are the motivation for the developer. If you have a coin that isn't premined, the developer isn't getting many coins and won't be financially motivated to make the coin a success. Whether the community thinks the means by which the developer gets the coins is "fair" or not is basically immaterial. Virtually all of the new altcoins are premined, for this precise reason.

This comes down to the developers wanting to share in the wealth they create. We say Satoshi deserved it, but it's a "horribly unethical premine" if another developer does it.

Consider that an altcoin developer can't do it the way Satoshi did, because the coin gets picked up by huge miners almost immediately. So, basically, you assert that developers shouldn't get any compensation for their work.

Okey doke...

ictin
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May 24, 2013, 10:02:30 AM
 #30



You're missing the point.

What is the difference between a developer holding a quarter million coins for one of the new alts and Satoshi holding a quarter million bitcoins, besides the cries of "that's not fair"?

News flash: nobody really gives a shit about "being fair". If people gave a shit about that, we wouldn't need crypto in the first place.

I really hope you kidding


Oops.....Im sorry I got in your way. Troll away sir troll away

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

I'm not kidding at all.

The initial mined coins are the motivation for the developer. If you have a coin that isn't premined, the developer isn't getting many coins and won't be financially motivated to make the coin a success. Whether the community thinks the means by which the developer gets the coins is "fair" or not is basically immaterial. Virtually all of the new altcoins are premined, for this precise reason.

This comes down to the developers wanting to share in the wealth they create. We say Satoshi deserved it, but it's a "horribly unethical premine" if another developer does it.

Consider that an altcoin developer can't do it the way Satoshi did, because the coin gets picked up by huge miners almost immediately. So, basically, you assert that developers shouldn't get any compensation for their work.

Okey doke...
Yes, I think that vast majority of the crypto coin community thinks this: that the developer should get nothing and to work for free in order to make the guys with powerful rigs rich.

mullick
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May 24, 2013, 11:10:00 AM
 #31



You're missing the point.

What is the difference between a developer holding a quarter million coins for one of the new alts and Satoshi holding a quarter million bitcoins, besides the cries of "that's not fair"?

News flash: nobody really gives a shit about "being fair". If people gave a shit about that, we wouldn't need crypto in the first place.

I really hope you kidding


Oops.....Im sorry I got in your way. Troll away sir troll away

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

I'm not kidding at all.

The initial mined coins are the motivation for the developer. If you have a coin that isn't premined, the developer isn't getting many coins and won't be financially motivated to make the coin a success. Whether the community thinks the means by which the developer gets the coins is "fair" or not is basically immaterial. Virtually all of the new altcoins are premined, for this precise reason.

This comes down to the developers wanting to share in the wealth they create. We say Satoshi deserved it, but it's a "horribly unethical premine" if another developer does it.

Consider that an altcoin developer can't do it the way Satoshi did, because the coin gets picked up by huge miners almost immediately. So, basically, you assert that developers shouldn't get any compensation for their work.

Okey doke...

When the development time for a new coin seems to be a few hours no. If you put time and effort into your coin you can mine it yourself just like everyone else and receive lots of donations if it didnt pre mine It is then the devs and the community responsibility to make the coin a success and themselves rich. As it stands premines are only to mine enough so when it hits an exchange you can get a few btc out of it which actually discourages the dev more. Why put all the time and effort in If he can dump it now for a few thousand dollars and create a new coin next week? A few have used them for bounties but that leaves a lot of room for trust why not work together with the community to arrange bounties? They want it to suceed just as much as you
Vycid
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May 24, 2013, 11:19:59 AM
 #32

If you put time and effort into your coin you can mine it yourself just like everyone else and receive lots of donations if it didnt pre mine

Uh huh. What world are you living in? If the developer doesn't premine, he's going to get nothing compared to the 600 lb mining gorilla that comes along two hours later with 35 MH/s scrypt (and that miner would dump his coins when they hit an exchange anyway, so they're better off with the developer anyway, since he's in it for the long haul if he's serious about the development work).

Shit, I only have a small farm and I'd probably still get more than the developer for a new coin.

And when was the last time you donated to a developer? The Litecoin team would appreciate your generosity.

Bicknellski
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May 24, 2013, 11:20:09 AM
 #33

The alt-coins that I'm currently holding a lot of aren't scam coins.
The alt-coins that I don't hold any of are scam coins.

There, just saved you a lot of trouble.

+1

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ictin
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May 24, 2013, 11:21:47 AM
 #34


When the development time for a new coin seems to be a few hours no. If you put time and effort into your coin you can mine it yourself just like everyone else and receive lots of donations if it didnt pre mine
Well this is the problem. You can't mine it like everyone else. If we talk about scrypt, an average GPU will get 400 kh/s, but there are many rigs with 40.000 kh/s. So if the developer get 1 coin, this guys will get 100. And yeah, maybe, just maybe, they will donate 1 more to the developer. And the developer will be very happy and he will continue to improve the coin knowing that he will get peanuts while the big boys will get rich.

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May 24, 2013, 11:26:41 AM
 #35


When the development time for a new coin seems to be a few hours no. If you put time and effort into your coin you can mine it yourself just like everyone else and receive lots of donations if it didnt pre mine
Well this is the problem. You can't mine it like everyone else. If we talk about scrypt, an average GPU will get 400 kh/s, but there are many rigs with 40.000 kh/s. So if the developer get 1 coin, this guys will get 100. And yeah, maybe, just maybe, they will donate 1 more to the developer. And the developer will be very happy and he will continue to improve the coin knowing that he will get peanuts while the big boys will get rich.

... and, according to this community, that's "fair". Because premines aren't "fair".

Sometimes logic is fleeting around here. It is precisely fair. If the developer is offering a premined coin, it is your prerogative to ignore it. Demanding that coins not be premined is, to me, a demonstration of ignorance. A better discussion is "how much premine is appropriate?"

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May 24, 2013, 02:26:44 PM
 #36

Curious - To people defending Pre-mined coins created now, in 2013:

  • Is it as hard to start an Alt-Chain now?
  • Is it worth the same as starting the first cryptocurrency in 2009?

Maybe this is the problem - People view Satoshi's origination of Bitcoin as equvilent to forking the code... Except that's not what happened, he concieved, designed, documented, and implemented the code from basically scratch.

Do the alt-chains coming out now work like that?

Let's Talk Bitcoin! Interviews, News & Analysis released Tuesdays and Saturdays
http://www.LetsTalkBitcoin.com - Listener Mail -> adam@letstalkbitcoin.com
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May 24, 2013, 03:11:54 PM
 #37

Curious - To people defending Pre-mined coins created now, in 2013:

  • Is it as hard to start an Alt-Chain now?
  • Is it worth the same as starting the first cryptocurrency in 2009?

Maybe this is the problem - People view Satoshi's origination of Bitcoin as equvilent to forking the code... Except that's not what happened, he concieved, designed, documented, and implemented the code from basically scratch.

Do the alt-chains coming out now work like that?

Nope, they piggy back taking good bits and changing others

IMPORTANT GOLDCOIN INFORMATION | Official Gold Coin Website | Official Gold Coin Forum

LTC - LQRSRKHxfv22krMsLw8jsKoSYnnsWpVqAQ | GLD - E4EjCsEgYLsvQRVFuGyJPNwfWNioFxhZv5
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May 24, 2013, 03:23:43 PM
 #38

i have no comment, but i will say this. long live bacon. bacon is good. consider this.
...
something iwll eventually replace bitcoin. lays of economics. where theres a market there will always be a product.

Bacon will replace Bitcoin. Obviously. HAIL BACON!



In all seriousness: Little good seems to come from the heavily-premined (or instamined) altchains. Since there are so many alternatives now compared to when Bitcoin first launched, miners can easily just pick a different coin to mine instead...early controversy can (and does) kill altchains early on.

mindtomatter
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May 24, 2013, 03:24:52 PM
 #39

Curious - To people defending Pre-mined coins created now, in 2013:

  • Is it as hard to start an Alt-Chain now?
  • Is it worth the same as starting the first cryptocurrency in 2009?

Maybe this is the problem - People view Satoshi's origination of Bitcoin as equvilent to forking the code... Except that's not what happened, he concieved, designed, documented, and implemented the code from basically scratch.

Do the alt-chains coming out now work like that?

Nope, they piggy back taking good bits and changing others

So... I see you have GLDcoin for your avatar, want to explain why pre-mining in GLDcoin is the same as Satoshi mining alone before anybody figured out Cryptocurrencies were worth their time?

Also, what good bits did GLDcoin take, and which parts did it change?

Let's Talk Bitcoin! Interviews, News & Analysis released Tuesdays and Saturdays
http://www.LetsTalkBitcoin.com - Listener Mail -> adam@letstalkbitcoin.com
ictin
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May 24, 2013, 03:39:50 PM
 #40

Curious - To people defending Pre-mined coins created now, in 2013:

  • Is it as hard to start an Alt-Chain now?
  • Is it worth the same as starting the first cryptocurrency in 2009?

Maybe this is the problem - People view Satoshi's origination of Bitcoin as equvilent to forking the code... Except that's not what happened, he concieved, designed, documented, and implemented the code from basically scratch.

Do the alt-chains coming out now work like that?

1. I think that nobody is defending the coins created this spring. In the long run they are useless, except maybe YAC that had changed the hashing algo. But we need new innovative coins, and with premine to ensure that the original developer will stay involved.

2. All the coins had some kind of premine. Satoshi had announced the bitcoins to some iRC channels and is considered ok. If somebody else will launch a coin and will not announce the coin here, on this forum will be considered premine. For example CNC is considered premine because was first announced on a chinese forum, and not here. That is a useless coin, well this is another story.

What people don't get is that the premine is not important.
The important thing is: what improvement is this coin bringing to get one step closer to have a useful crypto currency. Since the bitcoin, the only coin that has taken this step is PPcoin with the proof of stake.

All coins have been premined to some extent. Yes, satoshi premined in some sense, he/they got millions now he/they DESERVE this millions, but i don't think that the miners that got in early deserve their millions. They are the ones resisting the changes and holding with they teeth on bitcoin, and this is blocking the evolution of crypto currency.

Twisting the facts will not improve the reality. But as i said, nobody will accept the reality and risk loosing their investment.

And yes, maybe i have in mind to make a new crypto currency, but with something new. I need to dig more in to the thing, i don't know if i will make it. But i tell you one thing: when is ready you can bet that i will premine some 50k coins, and i don't care if the coin will die because of this. Because if i don't get anything i still don't care if the coin will die.

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